Clarification about Entropia banking operations

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Bertha Bot

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Clarification about Entropia banking operations
04 June 2007

Since we released news about the virtual banking licenses, several questions regarding loan services and banking affairs within Entropia Universe have been raised. The main concern has been the lending of items for interest. We feel that we need to clarify our policy about this.

Recently MindArk PE AB issued official virtual banking licenses. These licenses comprise a secured bank system for processing loans and securities in the form of items. All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.

By contrast, loan services offered outside this official bank system cannot be guaranteed by MindArk. If an item is exchanged between avatars, this transaction will be logged as a regular TRADE. And as all trades are final, MindArk will not investigate claims if a loan giving avatar refuses to return items or money.Many people do not fully understand the true value of their virtual items until they are lost. They will then contact MindArk PE AB for assistance and will realize that we cannot help them; this can cause a lot of unnecessary grief and frustration.

We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe, but based on experiences from community feedback and support case history, unfortunately not all entrepreneurs offering loaning services are trustworthy members of the Entropia Universe and therefore we need to be strict in our policies in order to protect the community from scams and cheating.

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.



Originally Posted Here
 

Hardicus

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Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.
So much for free enterprise :laugh:
 

Slick

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Goodbye Gamers Bank and H&R Circle then?
 

SODERD

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lol... knew it was commin... sry kygon time to shut down the buissness
 
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Hmm... I guess shares are out of the question too... Like those ones in ACS (Anshe Chung Studios or whatever)
 

Arkonen

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We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe, but based on experiences from community feedback and support case history, unfortunately not all entrepreneurs offering loaning services are trustworthy members of the Entropia Universe and therefore we need to be strict in our policies in order to protect the community from scams and cheating.

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.


This is just :bs:

MA if you do not wish to "discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe" just implement a SECURED LOANING system to ALL OF US. Not just to a very limited set of "entrepreneurs" having loads of money to put in this game.

And remember that economy (real or virtual) without the small "entrepreneurs" is just NOTHING.
 

ThunderCat

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thats f`d up but i guess its for our best interest.
 

A-Bomb

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"We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe"

"Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system... scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown."

Um, yeah i get their point... but i mean... am the only one seeing two faces atm? Or are my eyes just crossed?
 
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This is just :bs:

MA if you do not wish to "discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe" just implement a SECURED LOANING system to ALL OF US. Not just to a very limited set of "entrepreneurs" having loads of money to put in this game.

And remember that economy (real or virtual) without the small "entrepreneurs" is just NOTHING.
Right with you there, dude. They keep stripping away our rights, there'll be none left soon... But then... According to the EULA, we have no rights...
 

Tangine

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Nice way to enforce a monopole, after finding out that maybe there was no need for licenses. Now they don't say there is NEED for license, but that you MUST have one anyway.

This is how things are done :
1) Create a tool without enough thinking, to compete with game "X" that introduced that tool.
2) Realize your own game already have this feature, on a player-to player-service basis.
3) Realize the money you invested in making that tool is now in jeopardy.
4) Realize investors that followed you in that venture are getting touchy about it, and suggest you fix the situation.
5) Make it mandatory for any player to use the new, unsufficiently described tool, so that using the existing pvp service is now illegal.

That's how a government fights drugs : they make a crappy one, and forbid all other drugs. You can only have the governmental fix.

I am so happy that Mindark finally show their true face : this real cash economy is not capitalism, it is not communism, it is not socialism, it is totalitarian all the way. Big brother just got bigger... Enjoy !
 

Arkonen

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thats f`d up but i guess its for our best interest.
Sorry Thunder but i really don't agree with that.

Most of us can "proctect" ourselves from scammers. This is just to the best interest of the bank/pawn shops owners.

:twocents:
 

ThunderCat

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Sorry Thunder but i really don't agree with that.

Most of us can "proctect" ourselves from scammers. This is just to the best interest of the bank/pawn shops owners.

:twocents:
true that but some cant,so its like a sacrifice for the majority.
i dont agree to it im just saying how it looks to me.
 

Tangine

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true that but some cant,so its like a sacrifice for the majority.
i dont agree to it im just saying how it looks to me.
I think you're giving them way too much credit here. Read my post above for clarification...
 

RazorFire

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This is a disappointing and inconsistent U-turn in policy. Just a week ago, it was...

"This doesn't mean other ventures such as desscribed above are un-authorized, only that if anything would happen during such dealings, MindArk will not offer support - as in, "all trades are final" (as they are considered trades, not "loans")"

but now, they are unauthorised.

Some respected members of the EU community have now had time and effort that theyve put into such ventures completely wasted. Especially to state that any such action would be considered a scam is completely out of context and inappropriate.

I'm all for the banks, but I'm all for private enterprise and ingenuity within EU too.

Bah :mad:
 

Teilk

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thats f`d up but i guess its for our best interest.
It would be in the "best interests" of the playerbase to have free and open competition, with regards to all professions.

Just a personal opinion.
 

andy5579

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Wow, thats crazy. I can see that they dont want to annoy the people who just pumped tens of thousands for the bank licences, but wow. I am now wondering too...will the banks be able to loan out items as well as peds? I would see this as a much more viable loaning system, as then I would even go to a bank to try out some items that I would never be able to afford!
 

Aziphirael

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Hmm... I guess shares are out of the question too... Like those ones in ACS (Anshe Chung Studios or whatever)
Not sure, thats still bit of a grey area given previous comments from Marco. It looks like its only loan services being specifically targetted by the statement. But I would say in the general scheme of things the risk of investing in ACS has increased, although with ACS being a holder of a bank license that further muddies the waters.
 

Teilk

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I really appreciate the fact that MA has been kind enough to label all of us that have worked so hard for years to build an unblemished reputation that allows us to operate such businesses successfully with such pleasant terms as "scam attempt", and "permanent lockdown of account".


I am truly amazed that MA would pull such a stunt, though I know I should not be. the sudden reversal of policy is interesting as well. First it was more along the lines of "use at your own risk", now its "we will lock anyone who wants to compete in the free market".
 

Dan59

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Ma states that all trades can be considered as scam atempts.
So do not trade and do not use auction until this ofence will be cleared.
 

KikiSand

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Ma states that all trades can be considered as scam atempts.
So do not trade and do not use auction until this ofence will be cleared.

Actually, they are talking about loans, not trades.... :scratch2:
 

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Rather than run around like Chicken Little decrying that MA is being unnecessarily harsh about unauthorized loans, look at it from MA's view:

  • An unsecured loan system is begging for complaints.
  • When those complaints occur, the only authority anyone can turn to is MA.
  • MA will tell them "Sorry, all trades are final."
  • Injured party complains publically, may even take their marbles and leave.
  • MA makes more money by having people stay, rather than when people take their PEDS and leave.

Worse, it essentially creates the exact problems that MA carefully worked to avoid with their banking system.

Does it stifle competition? Of course. But MA's position is not only understandable, but may save a lot of people a lot of hassle.

On a side note, their language about considering unlicensed loan services to be scammers was absolutely boneheaded, considering they knew who was involved (Marco even commented on their thread!).
 
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kira-red

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Actually, they are talking about loans, not trades.... :scratch2:
what dan is suggesting is that, by extention, any trade can be considered a scam attempt. this is because the trade system does not know what the intent of the parties are.

for example, if I loan my friend a blueprint or on occasion give him some resources, and he in turn does the same for me, these one sided "loans" cannot be distingished from any other trade. in theory, I risk lockdown of my account if some wiener at MA summarly decides that I'm in violation of their protectionist "banking laws".

I would expect, though, that MA will do nothing unless there is widespread advertising by someone offering loan services which directly compete with the "banks".
 

psychnosiz

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Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system
What Loan services ? These are (temporary) Trades - as explained in the following quote - ...

If an item is exchanged between avatars, this transaction will be logged as a regular TRADE
... So it will be impossible to do ANY trade in the future which do not pass Banks or Auction ?


IMO they should lock all accounts from people who send in stupid support tickets. Which would be A LOT more efficient. :D :laugh:
 

Teilk

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Rather than run around like Chicken Little decrying that MA is being unnecessarily harsh about unauthorized loans, look at it from MA's view:

  • An unsecured loan system is begging for complaints.
  • When those complaints occur, the only authority anyone can turn to is MA.
  • MA will tell them "Sorry, all trades are final."
  • Injured party complains publically, may even take their marbles and leave.
  • MA doesn't make money when people take their PEDS and leave.

Worse, it essentially creates the exact problems that MA carefully worked to avoid with their banking system.

Does it stifle competition? Of course. But MA's position is not only understandable, but may save a lot of people a lot of hassle.

On a side note, their language about considering unlicensed loan services to be scammers was absolutely boneheaded, considering they knew who was involved (Marco even commented on their thread!).
Actually, I ran my personal loan service for the better part of a year, made thousands of loans to hundreds of players, and never received a single complaint. Nor did MA. 75% of my business was repeat customers, and only 1 item was ever defaulted on, and the player in question never even bothered to contact me, despite repeated efforts on my part to contact him. I still held his item for a few weeks, in the event that he had personal problems that did not allow him to log onto EU.

I think that this is more of a case of MA buckling to pressure from the new bank owners. I know if I spent 50-100k USD on a virtual bank, and saw competition springing up without a similar "investment", it would at least get MA a nasty letter or two.
 

kira-red

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Worse, it essentially creates the exact problems that MA carefully worked to avoid with their banking system.
these exact problems existed before the licences and will continue to exist going forward. the intent of the statement is fair warning that anyone they deem to be in competition with their licenced "banks" will be shutdown - to the extent of losing their account should they not comply.

On a side note, their language about considering unlicensed loan services to be scammers was absolutely boneheaded, considering they knew who was involved
in all fairness, unlicenced loan service can be possible scam attempts. this sort of thing has happened so many times, I'm amazed that people continue to discuss it. when you "loan" something to someone, you are giving it to them. you have no recourse should they not uphold whatever they agreed to. lend me your ML-45 for a couple of days is one of the all time favourites.
 

Constantine

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Actually, I ran my personal loan service for the better part of a year, made thousands of loans to hundreds of players, and never received a single complaint. Nor did MA. 75% of my business was repeat customers, and only 1 item was ever defaulted on, and the player in question never even bothered to contact me, despite repeated efforts on my part to contact him. I still held his item for a few weeks, in the event that he had personal problems that did not allow him to log onto EU.
You're honest - but how long until someone who wasn't joined the scene?

I think MA realized that with banks being prominent, more people would jump on the bandwagon (as they did), and they decided to put their foot down now rather than have something blow up on them.
 

Teilk

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You're honest - but how long until someone who wasn't joined the scene?

I think MA realized that with banks being prominent, more people would jump on the bandwagon (as they did), and they decided to put their foot down now rather than have something blow up on them.
You see, again, we hit on the whole research theme. I researched the hell out of the possible market before opening my loan service. It is next to impossible for an unknown or dishonst avatar to run this sort of business with any sort of success, (unless you just buy a bank I guess...).
 

Trifle

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Ye I immediatly thought of you reading this Teilk. A shame all users who have great rep are now all of a sudden scammers :confused:
 
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