Clarification about Entropia banking operations

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This isn't a game, never was.

For one thing you must be high, its a game. You can quit. You can log off. You can take a break. You can unistall it. I dont know about you but thats a game for me. Yes its more realistic than most games but still a game.

For another does anyone else get the feeling that Lucky is working for MA? New member that just happens to join in the debate on this thread and defends MA's position.
 
Loan services existed before Teilk's.

in fact, Dub provided links to just 4 of them in Teilk's thread that you so kindly linked:





I guess the only thing to say here is:

OWNED

Who said loan services didn't exist before Teilk's?
Did you acctually read what you just quoted?
I suggest you read it one more time.
 
Loan services existed before Teilk's.

By no means was I the creator of the idea. Moneylenders have been around since, well, money.

I am however, the first to actually make it work successfully and profitably here on EU.
As far as the rest of your slander and unresearched opinions go, you might want to get all the facts before spewing that bile that you seem to consider thoughtful insight.

I guess the only thing to say here is
OWNED
 
bah, its pointless.. post deleted
 
You'd be surprised how many newbies ask me for collateral on a 3 ped pair of pants, needless to say I don't give any :laugh:

Actually, this is kind of encouraging. Newer players are educated enough to know that scams are out there. They know that asking for collateral is a good way of preventing a scam.

It's a little sad that you laugh about this. To a new player, especially with the price of sweat today, 3 ped is all the money in the world.

I guess some of us forget what it was like.
 
Actually, this is kind of encouraging. Newer players are educated enough to know that scams are out there. They know that asking for collateral is a good way of preventing a scam.

It's a little sad that you laugh about this. To a new player, especially with the price of sweat today, 3 ped is all the money in the world.

I guess some of us forget what it was like.

Of course it's encouraging that people know there are scams out there. I was simply laughing because as a colourer I am asked to provide collateral when all business is conducted on my own premises so I'm hardly likely to do a runner with a 3 ped pair of pants. Was just trying to lighten the thread a bit :/
 
I fully understand that frustration and emotion is running high right now. The policy update was the result after having discussions and feedback with the support department, who got dozens of requests from participants who wanted to start loan services. A lot of the people behind the requests are ones with a shady background in the Entropia. We saw a rapid rise in fraudulent enterprise forming, which would hurt the little guy....

and why are these people still playing? if they cant scam being a loanshark or running a pawnshop, wouldnt they try another scam instead?

you want to protect us against one type of "scam", that by coincidence would hurt mostly the licensed bankers. what about the other scams?

are all trades final or not?
where do you draw the line when you classify giving out loans as scamming?

We decided to act pre-emptevly and state that those who publicly offers loan services hereby us to be viewed upon as scammers, because that is the only real way to act. My horror scene would have been seen 50 loan sharks in Port Atlantis scamming newcomers from their first PEDs, killing all fun and all hope for them. The biggest sad thing in this is that those who manage a trusted venture gets tossed in with the rest, but at this point we cannot differentiated in a way that MA can guarantee.

so loansharks scamming newcommers that probably have no or very low amounts of ped could be a big issue?
i would say thats just a piss in the sea compared to all the mentor farmers, trade scammers and the armor upgraders that are running around. and if thats not enough they will most likely lose their money anyways after a few minutes hunting because of the new "high-stake" loot system. or they might even get put off when they notice the hyperinflation on most items that are usefull if they actually want to advance in this universe.

ive seen many poor excuses and many bad desicions, but i have to say this probably the worst... even tho it does not affect me one bit.

but dont worry about it. i got used to this crap a long time ago, and im still depositing my ass off.
 
Marco/MA:
you are changing rules to kick Teilk/Akoz/Cindy (and others) out of free business in EU and call them potential scammers/loan sharks. In a player-owned forum. Okay.

So:
1. either they steal our items (scammers). Please confirm that you know "CBE is stealing items".

2. or they get too high interests (loan sharks... 50% a year like someone I am not in love with stated out). Please confirm "No bank-license-holder will get more than 50% a year, otherwise he/she is a scammer and get banned".

If you do either 1. or 2. I am fine, otherwise... shame on you. But than at least my trust in a so called "real cash economy" is lost. Definitly.


Ag.
 
ya pretty shady decision by MA ide say.. kinda like communism i guess.. conform or prepare to be destroyed ... !
 
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Why is this so hard to understand???

In the real world, you cannot go around calling yourself a "bank" or offer identical services as a bank without a license.

Mindark is simply mirroring what exists in the real world: creating a controlled process in which cash loans (in this case, secured cash loans) are made. I say good job MA. :wtg:

Yes u can. I can go right now outside and call myself a bank with the risk of my neighbours considering me a bit "out of orbit".
But you can give loans to your friends that trust you without needing a license! And this is what CBE would be doing. The people that would trust them would go and ask for their service, right? Nobody would force anyone to do it. If their business would prove successfull and people would see that they are trustworthy fellows, CBE would gain more and more friends. They are faimous anyway and I bet they have tons of friends already! This is what MA fears: that we would rather go and use the service that a friend is providing instead of someone completelly foreign to us that doesnt even know much about the game...
 
Loan services existed before Teilk's.

in fact, Dub provided links to just 4 of them in Teilk's thread that you so kindly linked:





I guess the only thing to say here is:

OWNED

Am I the only one wondering if this is an alternate EF account? This style of posting kinda reminds me of someone...I might be wrong ofc, but surely is quite interesting how high this person's rep is, compared to the number of posts...
Many people abused bugs before, some still do. Some people, some VERY uber and faimous people did that too. Some, like Akoz, didnt do it to harm anyone, and ffs, he was only locked once because we know why... (MA's classified)
I fully trust Akoz and many other people can guarantee that he is a fair player. If we are about to mention people that used a bug somewhere in the past, why not mention ALL of them? Lets make a list with what they did and THEN judge...
 
Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.
How does that fit with the in-game "make money by selling items for others" part of the EU teaser running on the public video screens?
 
@ Marco for your last post on this matter.

You have gained experience in your Opening A Can Of Worms Skill.
You have gained experience in your Inability To Act On A Scamming Ava Independantly Skill.
You have gained experience in your Tar with The Same Brush Skill.
You have gained experience in your Look That's A Good Idea Jan, Shall We Steal It And Give It To Those Who are The Money Skill.

Although I bought stock in ABE for another pastime in EU, just for simple pleasure or pain, I now hope the whole sodding bank system fails. I hope every single one of those licences now goes into negative equity and I really hope you now permanently ban Anshe. I hope to lose my PED and bite my nose to spite my face.

soundboy
 
I fully understand that frustration and emotion is running high right now. The policy update was the result after having discussions and feedback with the support department, who got dozens of requests from participants who wanted to start loan services. A lot of the people behind the requests are ones with a shady background in the Entropia. We saw a rapid rise in fraudulent enterprise forming, which would hurt the little guy. We decided to act pre-emptevly and state that those who publicly offers loan services hereby us to be viewed upon as scammers, because that is the only real way to act. My horror scene would have been seen 50 loan sharks in Port Atlantis scamming newcomers from their first PEDs, killing all fun and all hope for them. The biggest sad thing in this is that those who manage a trusted venture gets tossed in with the rest, but at this point we cannot differentiated in a way that MA can guarantee.

Oki , fait enought for me.
But how will MA deal with people selling share of their "society" ?
Because , if anshe dont stop very soon all that , and pay back player.... you will see , 50 people sending a support because they will sell share for their societty.
Now we will see if MA got guts or not...
Will you ask to anshe stop her system outside the MA bank system ( wich is what you stated in the info) , or will MA lets her continue her course ?
If you lets her continue her course , will MA create a "list" of trusted player (like anshe) , and will ansure the security , and the back up of those player ?
 
Just out of curiosity, Marco, is it MA's intent to create the first B2B virtual environment or something? It sure looks like MA is putting the screws to the small virtual entrepeneur in favor of the high rollers (yet again)

Given the CND deal, the new Oxford Art and clothing deals, the pawn... err.. banks, and now this... It paints a pretty grim hypothetical road map for where Jan and you guys may be trying to take this product... at least from the viewpoint of the players... oops... participants, D'oh! I forgot, now it's COLONSISTS!

AG
 
It seems to me that while MA has been creating a virtual world for China, China's influance has slowly infiltrated back into our beloved virtual world. We are more and more Entropia's Communist Universe. Frankly it scares me to see the tides turn this way.
:twocents:
 
A huge minus rep to Mindark.

Thats the crappiest move I've ever seen so far, although it doesn't affect me as a player directly.

Whats next? Banning all street level trades maybe?

"Due to high possibility of potential scam, all trades should be done either via Entropia Universe auction system, or player operated stores/shopkeepers" :laugh:

Lets call spade a spade, although its painfully obvious anyway - the motive is NOT to protect the community, it is to protect the few people who paid $ for "official" pawnshop licenses that were promised to be "exclusive" for some time. LOL

Weak sauce.
 
Could just not use the banks until MA withdraws this rule, since the fact is if the banks put pressure on MA then the players must put pressure on the banks.
 
Sounds an awful lot like protectionism of the Big Banking interests, more then looking out for the all of the sudden important little guy

Of course the case is like this. It's much worse to have 50 loan-sharks scamming new-comers than 150 regular scammers in PA scamming new-comers, coz' MA can't do nothing against regular scammers.

"EU is a capitalistic dictatorship"

"Yes, we need a revolution"

"Good idea, let's have a revolution"

"Long live chinese democracy"

We have done our job, now it's time to welcome the real immigrants to EU. Welcome China, goodbye others..... :mad::mad::mad:
 
You may not say that MA is doing this to support the Bank Businesses because that is a rumor and breaks the EULA, do such you all risk your accounts being banned.
17. Rules of Conduct
n. You cannot spread any rumors about MindArk, the Entropia Universe, and MindArk Staff or Partners, that can be considered potentially damaging, using the Entropia Universe, IRC or any other public forums in any media now known or not currently known, including but not limited to a web space.

You also may not speak ill of aforementioned banks because doing so could could potentially damage MA and you will be banned.

You also may not stage protests of your discontent with the system, doing so will result in a ban!

GL in the new and improved Entropia Universe,
The fabulous statistics continued to pour out... As compared with last year there was more food, more clothes, more houses, more furniture, more cooking-pots, more fuel, more ships, more helicopters, more books, more babies--more of everything except disease, crime, and insanity. Year by year and minute by minute, everybody and everything was whizzing rapidly upwards...

In any time that he could accurately remember, there had never
been quite enough to eat, one had never had socks or underclothes that
were not full of holes, furniture had always been battered and rickety,
rooms underheated, tube trains crowded, houses falling to pieces,
bread dark-coloured, tea a rarity, coffee filthy-tasting, cigarettes
insufficient--nothing cheap and plentiful except synthetic gin. And though,
of course, it grew worse as one's body aged, was it not a sign that this
was NOT the natural order of things, if one's heart sickened at the
discomfort and dirt and scarcity, the interminable winters, the stickiness
of one's socks, the lifts that never worked, the cold water, the gritty
soap, the cigarettes that came to pieces, the food with its strange evil
tastes? Why should one feel it to be intolerable unless one had some kind
of ancestral memory that things had once been different?" - Orwell, 1984
 
Well. I am speechless.

I not quite sure if our project is seen by MA as an official scam now. Anyway, we started our business in January a few days before MA introduced the Bank licences. And we were in contact with MA.

This was the answer after our first contact for MA

Hej xxx,

You plans are very exciting, but some of your ideas touch on future plans for Entropia Universe!
I am traveling to London tomorrow and New York next week, If you could e-mail me after that we could arrange a telephone conversation to discuss your plans further.

Regards

David

And then, after this journey we tried to stay in contact and got this mail:

Hej xxx,

Unfortunately Mindark PE AB will be unable to officially approve your project, we encourage "entrepreneurship" inside Entropia Universe and wish you all the best with your venture.

Kind regards

David

So - judge us now please.
 
You may not say that MA is doing this to support the Bank Businesses because that is a rumor and breaks the EULA, do such you all risk your accounts being banned.

That's not a rumor, that's an opinion and therefore it can't be controlled by any EULA, not even MA's EULA....
 
The biggest sad thing in this is that those who manage a trusted venture gets tossed in with the rest, but at this point we cannot differentiated in a way that MA can guarantee.

Hum. Isn't it the same as usual ? The whole EULA is "we cannot guarantee". Since when do you actively fight scammers ? Why don't you start from the beginning ?

You say there will be trust abuse, but if you fought scammers more seriously, maybe we could believe your statement. Scammers can keep scamming because they usually don't go public. Pvp banks would advertise publicly, and being very visible, they would be trusted because anyone not trusting them or having issues can speak out. Their reputation is the most valuable thing they have.

And if the whole loan story is just a trade with collateral, i don't see how it will change things now : scammers will just take the collateral and give nothing in return, as usual. I don't see how the system could be abused now more than yesterday.

Bottom line :
The only trust abuse i can see is yours.

You encouraged business ventures from people with imagination and willpower. Now you make their efforts illegal. So... Where is the specificity of EU now ? Will you soon make pvp trade illegal ? Will you soon decide that withdrawal is illegal ? Will you decide that ped is no longer worth dollars ?

What's next ?


EDIT : on the previous post saying
"Umm, the ringleader of the "Rogue bank" is no angel. Akoz has been locked several times, once for actively trying to scam people using the Auction bug.
Akoz already has what amounts to a "criminal record" in entropia perhaps MA is doing exactlywhat Marco claims- protecting users from known scammers, .


If Akoz is considered a scammer by MA, then MA should permanently ban him. If not, then they shouldn't call him a scammer. They have to make up their minds about things. Can't be on both sides of the line.
MA doesn't hunt scammers that hurt the community. They ban scammers (or any player) that hurt them. That's what's happening now.
 
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:( <- second use today. its not good is it. now they lie to us. worried about scammer in PA... the only way to act... crocadile tears that a trusted venture gets tossed in with the rest, when it is MA that have made that association.

How about banning the known scammers? anyone offering to colour/upgrade armour get insta-lock? would that have been so difficult? would that not have been a better way to act?
 
You may not say that MA is doing this to support the Bank Businesses because that is a rumor and breaks the EULA, do such you all risk your accounts being banned.
You also may not speak ill of aforementioned banks because doing so could could potentially damage MA and you will be banned.
You also may not stage protests of your discontent with the system, doing so will result in a ban!
GL in the new and improved Entropia Universe,

BigBrother.jpg
 
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Well, i have said this countless times before (and having to read 19 pages of posts while i am supposed to study doesn't improve them).

Teilk, Akoz and cindy You ppl have created the first viable loan service in EU. You ppl together have probably invested more money into it atm then any single bank. MA used you ppl to test the concept (probably watched the trade and money flows) and then actually stole it. Given the amount of money that is involved i really advice you ppl to lawyer up and sue. I admit Theft of virtual intellectual property is a rather shady concept for most courts atm but given the amount of money Ma itself values it (price of the licences) you would stand rather firm in the courts.

Secondly Since MA allowed you to create a virtual business scheme which you ppl set into virtual "reality" with success and which is then all of a sudden judged illegal because they create a monopoly around it can legitimatly be considered unfair business conduct (word i am actually looking for is a translation of "broodroof"). (really looks like they took a page out of mao's little book: "how to nationalise economy" with a rather capitalistic twist to it)

And once more : a eula is only legally binding as long as it itself doesn't break the laws of the judicial system it resorts under. (It didn't cost me a very expensive lawyer to have discovered a satisfying nr of breaches)

And lastly, I absolutely condemn the idea of banks or pawnshops in EU, their only public target will be groups who are easier lured by risk and of which a sizable amount will encounter rl problems by their virtual addiction. Now if these banks started offering savings accounts or sold shares of MA AB....

:D
 
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