Info: Confirmation that loot sucks 2010

[STYRM]

The only thing thats different between the carpenter and the "hunter" is that a mod merc costs a years salary worth to some, and the carpenters hammer costs you a fraction of a daily salary... Making direct analogies just don't work like that in this game.

I do agree, but only to some extent. And you just pointed out why we dont have any newcomers: If the price to be efective in this game is that steep, and depending on the costs of the "fun", i dont see why newcomers feel compeled to stay, only to know that they cant "afford" the best gear, and thus know theyll never be the best, which to some people, is their objective in games.

But yeah, if you cant afford a MM or impmkII then be prepared to lose the money, that if added over time, will most likely cover for the purchase of a MM or ImpMK... Its only a matter of how much money you want to stall. And thus favours the rich, and hurts the poor

Can look at it in many ways tbh. Don't flame for having an opinion, just think that if MA want to be "on par" with other MMO's they gotta find other ways to pull them in besides the "possibility to make money", because lets face it, the average joe that plays online games, has an average job, with average incomes, and a MM or ImpMK are pretty much, the "money makers".

The only two things i dont like in this game are the one stated above, and the fact that MA can't really rebalamce weaponry, armors, and etc, as that will affect a lot of people, and can create bad PR (more than there already is) and they need to balance the several aspects of the game taking in respect many people, like their investors, costumers, etc...

in short, everyone has fun here, because they like the theme and interaction, however charging your average costumers a leg and an arm isnt good PR imo.

agreed.. the same applies irl aswell... everyone cant buy ferraris even if they want to.. (mod merc=ferrari) and thats exactly how it should be... if everyone make profit then EU will be no more.. except when it comes to mining (atm) because EU only pay the TT and other players pay the markup.. but mining would truly crash if everyone dropped hunting and started mining instead...

the bad PR will mostly come from ppl that have been really careless with their PEDs or from ppl that dont understand how to play. again.. its entertainment.. compair it to a casino.. you go in and lose.. will you complain that you lost money flipping a coin or worse? no one will.. cus they get their free drinks and have a great time.. (free drinks=nice graphics/chat/free stuff) so why have a small group of explayers started bad rumors about EU? well they are really pissed about something thats for sure... and apperantly dont have a clue how it works..

sorry if anyone takes it personal... and for the bad spelling (if there is any)

 

[WoenK]

The only thing thats different between the carpenter and the "hunter" is that a mod merc costs a years salary worth to some, and the carpenters hammer costs you a fraction of a daily salary... Making direct analogies just don't work like that in this game.

I do agree, but only to some extent. And you just pointed out why we dont have any newcomers: If the price to be efective in this game is that steep, and depending on the costs of the "fun", i dont see why newcomers feel compeled to stay, only to know that they cant "afford" the best gear, and thus know theyll never be the best, which to some people, is their objective in games.

But yeah, if you cant afford a MM or impmkII then be prepared to lose the money, that if added over time, will most likely cover for the purchase of a MM or ImpMK... Its only a matter of how much money you want to stall. And thus favours the rich, and hurts the poor

.

In my two years in EU, there have been times with more noobs coming and times when less came, but there has allways been a constant flow.
And the few I talked to, knew pretty well that, like in real life, there are things one might never obtain.
And like in real life, even if you could somehow manage to obtain that "uber gear", it still means absolutely nothing without the proper "education".
If you think of EU as "just a game", than one should really treat it as one and don't do "investments".
Not easy making the right "investments" but really easy to make the wrong ones. And most players claiming a real bad return rate either have the wrong setup for their ava (because "that's the one that allways worked") and/or play above their level and/or have not real data to rely on.

The excel sheet here is quite comprehensive, one only has to compare a bit his tracker data and his average repair bill to know, that he is not using the right setup for his ava.
An average repair bill of 187 PEDs when roughly on third of the hunts is low maturity Troxis ? With 280k skills one should have enough evader to hunt them naked.
And even though the TT value of the skills earned seems neglectable, over 50K PEDs cycled they are a chunk of the loot.

 

[Hugh Willose]

The excel sheet here is quite comprehensive, one only has to compare a bit his tracker data and his average repair bill to know, that he is not using the right setup for his ava.
An average repair bill of 187 PEDs when roughly on third of the hunts is low maturity Troxis ? With 280k skills one should have enough evader to hunt them naked.
And even though the TT value of the skills earned seems neglectable, over 50K PEDs cycled they are a chunk of the loot.

After playing for 5 years i can assure you i am using the right setup for my avatar, As far as the low mature trox's go, where do you get this info from the sheet ?, i spend a lot of time on the Akmuul trox too.

 

[WoenK]

After playing for 5 years i can assure you i am using the right setup for my avatar, As far as the low mature trox's go, where do you get this info from the sheet ?, i spend a lot of time on the Akmuul trox too.

The global data on the tracker suggests it, most globals where on young to providers.
As for the right gear, when was the last time you tried something different ?
just because it was right for some time does not mean it will stay that way and the repair costs really suggest that something with the setup is wrong.

 

[aridash]

An average repair bill of 187 PEDs when roughly on third of the hunts is low maturity Troxis ? With 280k skills one should have enough evader to hunt them naked.

BLP or high decay L will explain this. do we want to open debate on low decay vs high eco?

 

[Hugh Willose]

The global data on the tracker suggests it, most globals where on young to providers.
As for the right gear, when was the last time you tried something different ?
just because it was right for some time does not mean it will stay that way and the repair costs really suggest that something with the setup is wrong.

I try different things every day, thats why 66.6% of my hunts are on another 16 mobs, plus team hunts on proterons, CP etc.

The reason i started this spreadsheet was because i noticed a huge change in the last couple of months, as i said earlier in this thread that i used to break even most of the time and hunting habits havent changed much in the last couple of years.

As for the repair bill, i have been skilling swords a lot in the past year and tend to do a lot of 3 sword hunts with a determination, i know its not the most economical way to hunt, but its what i do sometimes.

And regarding tracker....... it only tracks globals

Therefore...... My hunting habits havent changed......but Loot has

 

[WoenK]

Therefore...... My hunting habits havent changed......but Loot has

Maybe you should change your hunting habits?
Skilling with swords surely explain the high decay bill, but surely not that return.
Unless something really big is going to happen
When was the last time you hunted stuff like Berries, Combis and Daikibas?

 

[Hugh Willose]

Maybe you should change your hunting habits?
Skilling with swords surely explain the high decay bill, but surely not that return.
Unless something really big is going to happen
When was the last time you hunted stuff like Berries, Combis and Daikibas?

If things carry on like this it wont be long until i am hunting Berries, Combis and Daikabas

 

[Xavier_Jr]

This sheet reflects the reality of the hunting, simple and crude. Any player who is hunter and who is not an employee or family member or friend of Mindark knows immediately the truely of these red numbers.

 

[WoenK]

If things carry on like this it wont be long until i am hunting Berries, Combis and Daikabas

Well maybe you should try it out before it has to come to that.
From my experience my Ava is quite pissed off if I force him to hunt stuff like that and craft generic leathers
After those sessions he is again in-line and stops wasting my PEDs

 

[aridash]

When was the last time you hunted stuff like Berries, Combis and Daikibas?

to suggest that someone with 280k needs to hunt such mobs to see a sensible return, shows some problem in the system. its certainly not a viable or desirable solution as it effectively renders skills meaningless.

 

[WoenK]

to suggest that someone with 280k needs to hunt such mobs to see a sensible return, shows some problem in the system. its certainly not a viable or desirable solution as it effectively renders skills meaningless.

I was not suggesting to hunt them on a daily basis, but rather to get out of ones habit. If something does not work the way one is used to, one has to change and rethink the habit.
And sometimes doing something absolutely different for a few days can turn loot around quite drastical. To continue the routine and lose more PEDs surely makes no sense at all.

 

[Oki Teddy Doki]

I have been playing for about 5 years now and loot is shit now!!

My last hunt had a cost of 700 ped total and the return was 340 ped with no markup stuff.....just crap BTW just less and less markup stuff in loots these days
And I am sorry to say that it has not been the only one.
I know that I maybe can make a small profit on hunting drones, but then I play this game for fun and drones are no fun at all!

But if the fun is going to have this high price I may think of other things to do and I bet I am not alone now.

The way loot is in VU 10 I'd say MA is killing the game cos I can't see people paying this cost for a game, so do something MA!!!!!!

Cos soon it will just be eco hunters left in here and then they will have to lose also to pay the bills.

Ps! I don't mind paying a BIT to play this game, but don't spoil the game by scaring people away from here MA.....cos if so you all will have to find a new job

 

[Ace Flyster]

I am not entirely sure why, but you seem not to want to tell people what you spent tt vs your tt return??

Rgds

Ace

 

[Deleted member 24529]

no problem whit my loots : )

 

[Dunn]

Entropia Universe no longer holds any entertainment value for the amount of money that one needs to put into it in order to play it like a normal MMO.
And I doupth i'm the only one seeing it like that, so EU is now a cycle, where there are less and less ppl playing and paying.

Wich leads to MA having less players that can support their company, and that puts a higher strain on the current paying playerbase, wich leads to more and more turnin their backs to EU.

Theres a reason why MA never has listed how many active players they have in EU. and thats cause they dont have a high number of active and paying customers.

I look to CCP, compared to WoW they have a pretty small game, 300k-350k paying subscribers, with an average of 35k-50k online depending on the hour of the day.

In EU we propably only have maybe 10% of that who pay, and hardly anymore than a few thousand online at any given time.
Just looking at the numbers combined in the 50most top skilled soc's gives a good indication of that.

In the end, i abbandoned ship, but left my luggage behind, so let me know if there are anyone interested in buy varius stuff .

I'm going to back to internet spaceships online, theres a fleet to hotdrop.

 

[Hugh Willose]

I am not entirely sure why, but you seem not to want to tell people what you spent tt vs your tt return??

Rgds

Ace

top right of the sheet tells what hunt costs are and what returns are

 

[Ace Flyster]

top right of the sheet tells what hunt costs are and what returns are

With or without markups included?

Rgds

Ace

 

[Hugh Willose]

With or without markups included?

Rgds

Ace

markups included ... otherwise what would be the point ?

 

["Rill"]

Perhaps "Play fro Free" is working too well. With more low skill players (aka 14 - 16 year olds) joining the game and not depositing, what does this do to the loot values.

I often ask myself why MA/FPC introduce TT fodder with no MU value to the game when already the markets are suffering. I am only new but I have never seen the Last Calls page with blank lines before and getting more frequent.

And I do go back to low level mobs myself for a bit of fun and skilling. Nothing like pulling a train and disposing of them with a Vumpoor. Nice skill gains too.

 

[Ace Flyster]

markups included ... otherwise what would be the point ?

TT is what would be interesting for several reasons

1) Armour decay and fap decay do not help to kill a mob
take a 1 day noob, massive armour and fap decay, take an uber virtually no fap or armour decay. They do not contribute to killing a mob. So if i was going to go on a hunting spree, which i have done, i minize these as much as possible

SETUP is everything

2) Using a 180% gun vs 108% gun makes a big difference

3) Using limited vs unlimited armour makes a difference

4) using unlimited guns is a ped waster unless you are 75% hit/dam +

5) i could go on but it is pointless

TT returns is everything in this game! That is if you want to make a profit, or make your peds last longer

The only way i got to be a none depositor was to access tt returns, and work from there

Rgds

Ace

 

[Hugh Willose]

I try different things every day, thats why 66.6% of my hunts are on another 16 mobs, plus team hunts on proterons, CP etc.

The reason i started this spreadsheet was because i noticed a huge change in the last couple of months, as i said earlier in this thread that i used to break even most of the time and hunting habits havent changed much in the last couple of years.
My hunting habits havent changed......but Loot has

see above

 

[Ace Flyster]

see above

Fair enough, i will leave you to it, enjoy. I must agree with most in this thread an impressive spreadsheet none the less. I have a similar one without colours, so might steal your colour scheme if you don't mind

May the hof be with you

Rgds

Ace

 

[Hugh Willose]

Fair enough, i will leave you to it, enjoy. I must agree with most in this thread an impressive spreadsheet none the less. I have a similar one without colours, so might steal your colour scheme if you don't mind

May the hof be with you

Rgds

Ace

Thnx and Good Luck

 

[Oki Teddy Doki]

TT is what would be interesting for several reasons

1) Armour decay and fap decay do not help to kill a mob
take a 1 day noob, massive armour and fap decay, take an uber virtually no fap or armour decay. They do not contribute to killing a mob. So if i was going to go on a hunting spree, which i have done, i minize these as much as possible

SETUP is everything

2) Using a 180% gun vs 108% gun makes a big difference

3) Using limited vs unlimited armour makes a difference

4) using unlimited guns is a ped waster unless you are 75% hit/dam +

5) i could go on but it is pointless

TT returns is everything in this game! That is if you want to make a profit, or make your peds last longer

The only way i got to be a none depositor was to access tt returns, and work from there

Rgds

Ace

I know Hugh and we have been around in this game for some time now, so when we say loots suck compared to before this VU.....there is something in it!

Not all people do hunt 100% for TT returns, some people like me hunt for fun and try to hit a big one......and it looks like they are the ones that deposit most.

So when they say the cost of the game is getting to high there is a problem for all in game in the future is something is not done.....agree???

 

[Ace Flyster]

I know Hugh and we have been around in this game for some time now, so when we say loots suck compared to before this VU.....there is something in it!

Not all people do hunt 100% for TT returns, some people like me hunt for fun and try to hit a big one......and it looks like they are the ones that deposit most.

So when they say the cost of the game is getting to high there is a problem for all in game in the future is something is not done.....agree???

I would agree if costs are getting bigger, but there is no evidence for this. Of course this does not include the extra costs added by MA, eg armour equip which decays. I mean tt returns, as most know i am a miner, and tt returns has not changed for years

I would hazard a guess (as i do not know) that tt returns in hunting is exactly the same and has not changed in years. What has changed is markups but that is a whole different argument

We still do not know his setup etc, so this is all a mute point. I could show data that is 50% average returns, but without the whole picture it is nonesensical

I am a fanatic about data recording, and without the whole picture the numbers do not make any sense

Exactly the same argument about the tracker % results. I got rid of them a long time ago, so not sure if they are still on at the bottom of the page. But people use to write threads everyweek, how the tracker was showing big -%'s and how bad loot is. When in reality the numbers meant absolutely nothing without a frame of reference and all the data available. I will not go in to now how meaningless they were

But same argument here. If you get a steady 95% tt return. Then unless you get back greater 7% ish in markup on loot then you will lose. Then you have to factor in armour and fap, which gain you no loot at all. If you go for mobs that don't miss you etc. It all adds up.....tt returns is everything

And as i have said it has not changed in years in mining so untill someone proves otherwise i will presume (possibly wrong) that the same is in hunting.

I really need to do my own long term test in hunting, but i don't like it and get bored fairly quickly

Rgds

Ace

Huges test proves nothing as we do not have all the information. I apologise for the long post, but i hope you get an understanding of why i believe tt is important, even if you do not agree!
Anyone can start a thread with loot sucks and most do with a lot less info that he has

 

[Hugh Willose]

Huges test proves nothing as we do not have all the information. I apologise for the long post, but i hope you get an understanding of why i believe tt is important, even if you do not agree!
Anyone can start a thread with loot sucks and most do with a lot less info that he has

The majority of my data is behind the main sheet, 25 or so pages of data, as i dont want to bore people (or me) with uploading 25 jpg's, i chose only to upload the main one. like it or unsubscribe

 

[Ace Flyster]

The majority of my data is behind the main sheet, 25 or so pages of data, as i dont want to bore people (or me) with uploading 25 jpg's, i chose only to upload the main one. like it or unsubscribe

Just putting my point across, i am very happy to leave you to it and unsubscribe.

Rgds

A now unsubscribed Ace

 

[Hugh Willose]

Just putting my point across, i am very happy to leave you to it and unsubscribe.

Rgds

A now unsubscribed Ace

why do i feel it wont be the last we hear from him

 

[Oki Teddy Doki]

Huges test proves nothing as we do not have all the information. I apologise for the long post, but i hope you get an understanding of why i believe tt is important, even if you do not agree!
Anyone can start a thread with loot sucks and most do with a lot less info that he has

I see your point, but never have so many people been mad about hunting loot.
But then markup stuff look's like it is at a all time low in hunting right now and that may be the big problem even tho I feel that the average TT return is a bit under normal also.

Hunting now feels a bit like if you only found Lyst and Oil week after week and that hurts so bad that people are finding other things to do.

Soon just drones that are ok to hunt, but then that is a bit like mining LOL

Maybe we need some new blueprints in game so hunters can profit a bit on crafters also things will help?

Ted