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Current supply of ATAU's

InDaHouse

InDaHouse

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As a currently disgruntaled Crafter of P5a's i'm a bit peeved with the lack of supply of Advanced Target Assessment units (ATAU's).

The current drop rate on these is too low for the demand especialy with the release of the UL Apis BP that require's 7 per click.

MA have released X amount of BP's that require ATAU's, they reduced the drop rate of Korss H400 just before they introduced the P5a BP. This made the demand for P5a's quite high, now they have released the Apis BP that requires the same lvl of skill to craft as the P5a but with more ATAU's per click, and as far as i'm aware my hunter friends have said the drop rate on ATAU's on mobs also dropped around the time the Apis BP was released.

Now we have a problem where there is no ATAU's for sale on auction and as soon as you place an order above the top order someone automaticly up's thiers to make thiers highest.

Too many people need ATAU's to make guns and there is not enough supply so price is rising on cost to craft, as you can see P5a has risen in price and the Apis dropped to start but already is climbing back up.

I also have been told a theory that if something is rare and you can afford to stock alot of it you can manipulate the market and system if this is possible its a serious flaw in the game especialy on crafting materials. I think what is meant is that if e.g. I was to buy 5000 units of ATAU's and hold them in storage it would make the already tight market tighter as i'm not recylcing these into the system again is this possible? I know if someone TT's a ML-35 then according to MA it will be recycled back into loot pool so this might actualy be a true theory and a severely bad practice if anyone does this.

I ask that ALL Crafters of BP's that use ATAU's please send a support addressed to MA Balance team requesting they investigate the the possibility of a higher drop rate on ATAU's to balance with the current demand they themselfs are creating by dropping more BP's.
 
I have sent my support case and await a reply. When i get it i'll post it here.
 
As a crafter myself, I can completely sympathize on the prices of some components like ATAUs, Advanced Scanning Sensors, Flare Filters, etc. that result in some items not worth crafting as you can't get your PED back out of them.

However, I suspect that MA wants the price of ATAUs to be high to keep the markup on the new L guns like the LP485 high enough that it doesn't cause prices of UL weapons to suddenly plummet.
 
Got 10 ATAU's in 1 drop tonight from Troxy Prov..

none before or after in a whole looot of hunting.

This post says nothing overall.

Thanks
 
....just a quick add from me. I looted 2 (yes, only 2) from a Big Warrior today East of Emeralds. First time in over 2 months that they dropped for me.

not great news, but it's news. :rolleyes:


darri
 
InDaHouse said:
I also have been told a theory that if something is rare and you can afford to stock a lot of it you can manipulate the market and system if this is possible its a serious flaw in the game especially on crafting materials.
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Unfortunately this is no theory, its very much reality. for a really obvious (an stupidly unsubtle) example, take a look at the market history for Lysterium, it should still show the huge spike from yesterday.

EDIT: Looks like the spike i spoke of was not Lysterium...or its been flattened by all the other purchases done. Anyway, the point was that someone had put in an amount of something cheap (around 105%) and had had it bought at a ridiculously high % (over 2000%). obviously trying to manipulate (stupidly obvious IMO).
 
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https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/1133464-post36.html

Since P5A is more or less the "crafted brother" of korss id say the thoughts are the same... (read the linked thread in that post btw please, all of it, before responding).

No idea if ATAU are dropping less, but most likely the shortage is a direct result of the unlimited bps for apis...?
 
Last couple of .. mm, days or so, I've had about a total of 5 drops of ATAU's (2-7 in quant per drop i think) and I havent hunted very much really. In total hardly more than a full hunt (~600-800peds worth).

Might just be a fluke ofc, but since it was spread on several days and a few different mobs I'd say the drop rate is higher than it's been before (probably as a direct result of them being used more). So the shortage isn't cause they aren't dropping. And like thoreau says there's always been rare components, materials & resources.
 
It boils down to MA's regular concept of how to "balance" the drop ratio on things.

We get more people, more demand for something, either retain the original drop rate (rare) or scale it back a bit so that they have to depo/spend more for the items. They did it for weapons, armor, gear, and now they are doing it for components for some of the best L BLP Rifles in the game.

But on the flip side, yes - there is a higher demand for them, because the Apis 485's USED to be <190% in auction when the BP's first started dropping, and then MA dried them up, and they were nearly 300% for the longest time. Now that we have the UL bp's dropped, the call for them at a reasonable price has skyrocketed. Shops with them even at a decent price have them flying off their shelves, and I see a helluva lot more of them being used in hunting a lot of mobs.

Simple fix, which MA *might* wake up and do - increase the drop rate, and/or the number of mobs which drop the ATAUs!
 
i had several ATAU drops, also from low-level-mobs, in the last days.

a bit offtopic: what would be the effect of all droprates (items and resources) being directly bound to total sum of player deposits? would that keep ingame-prices stable? ofc, this does not mean the item vs item balance, just the total droprate of all items.
sry, just a thought of mine, maybe someone with deeper economic know-how can answer..
 
How is this different from the other bp's that require rare/expensive items? I have several bp's I don't craft because they call for xeremite, ruga, terrudite, or other unobtaniums.
It doesn't make sense, but MA does it so often that they must do it intentionally.
 
Phil Surtees said:
How is this different from the other bp's that require rare/expensive items? I have several bp's I don't craft because they call for xeremite, ruga, terrudite, or other unobtaniums.
It doesn't make sense, but MA does it so often that they must do it intentionally.
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The difference is that most of the other items dont have a demand anywhere near the demand for P5a and Apis, due to the high demend for these guns we have a high demand for the ATAU's, but what MA are doing is releasing more and more of the UL BP's (I think) which has created a higher demand than the supply.

P.s. These BP's do you not craft them due to a supply issue or the price issue? Not having a go but ask any my crafting friends i've supplied, i'm working with 2 other miners and we are supplying ruga at about 2-4 ingots per week, terrudite (not rare do you mean Tridenite?), Xeremite maybe 1-2 ingots a week if I go look.
 
thoreau said:
Support case? There have always been materials that are rare.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/mining/113566-how-common-ores-enmatter.html

I remember wanting Vindicator armor at one time but couldn't find Maganite so someone could craft it for me.

http://www.peauction.com/itemlisting.php?id=764
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Yes send a support we are the public of EU and if we dont voice our oppinions then we wont ever get listened to, even if you get a copy paste answer like "your thought/concerns have been paced on to Balance team." this is better than sitting back doing nothing, and complaining on
 
InDaHouse said:
The difference is that most of the other items dont have a demand anywhere near the demand for P5a and Apis, due to the high demend for these guns we have a high demand for the ATAU's, but what MA are doing is releasing more and more of the UL BP's (I think) which has created a higher demand than the supply.

P.s. These BP's do you not craft them due to a supply issue or the price issue? Not having a go but ask any my crafting friends i've supplied, i'm working with 2 other miners and we are supplying ruga at about 2-4 ingots per week, terrudite (not rare do you mean Tridenite?), Xeremite maybe 1-2 ingots a week if I go look.
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The example I recall is a Shriek Offensive. It calls for 1 xeremite, but it's not worth it, even though it's an ok gun.
 
unionova said:
Last couple of .. mm, days or so, I've had about a total of 5 drops of ATAU's (2-7 in quant per drop i think) and I havent hunted very much really. In total hardly more than a full hunt (~600-800peds worth).

Might just be a fluke ofc, but since it was spread on several days and a few different mobs I'd say the drop rate is higher than it's been before (probably as a direct result of them being used more). So the shortage isn't cause they aren't dropping. And like thoreau says there's always been rare components, materials & resources.
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I think the problem is a high demand of ATAU from craft. Try to hunt some big atrox (provider and above) or aurlis and they will show up in your loot window. I have been stockpiling them in my inventory to supply a crafter in my soc. But yes, the high demand from craft is not followed by enough drop of ATAU, hence the high inflation of those.
 
Naifas Anaconda said:
I think the problem is a high demand of ATAU from craft. Try to hunt some big atrox (provider and above) or aurlis and they will show up in your loot window. I have been stockpiling them in my inventory to supply a crafter in my soc. But yes, the high demand from craft is not followed by enough drop of ATAU, hence the high inflation of those.
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in 1 week on low aurly/kreltin i gathered 12 atau ... average 2k ped amo/day
 
more than I used to..

I have picked up several of these hunting lately, but I understand this. It's really bad when you want to manufacture something and the components are hard to find. Now along comes the L items and UNLESS you are highly skilled you cannot afford to even try. WHY put more money into trying to make an L item when it will not be worth what you put into in with components? Making L items should come out with full TT value or not at all. Same for hunting, who wants an L item you can use a couple of times before it becomes TT food? Not me... If I have to put 500 ped of components in and get one L item worth 5 ped then it's not balanced at all. There's where our high prices come along.

However... If you make an unlimited item that can be repaired then you can make it at low condition and get more of a chance to get the item. Then you can always sell it or repair it to full value.

Finding or making L items with low TT is just not right... :scratch2:

Ah well... Just my 2 cents worth anyway. Nothing to see here people, move along... :rolleyes:
 
Its simple. If you want something to be rare you make it so there are only a few of them. It could be that if mobs are getting wasted by better weapons and more users are joining and getting these better weapons then soon loots will be so common nothing will be rare. Now mobs could be made harder to kill but then new none depositors would be getting wasted and bored and leave, so making the tools harder to get evens things out. Does that make sense :scratch2:
 
Well I don't loot ATAU everyday but I get enough of them to think the drop rate is fine. The issue at hand is that I, probably like most others and definetely like some other posters here, don't run to the auction everytime I loot a few. I stockpile them until I have enough to make a good auction--I also supply crafter friends and soc mates with some here and there which delays the placement on auction even longer. If I have 20 and a soc m8 needs 14 I sell him the 14 and keep the six and start stockpiling over again--when I hit 25-30 I dump on auction.

If the market can bare the higher prices of the gun then pay a higher price for the materials if the market cannot bare the higher listing price of the gun-DON"T CRAFT THE GUN! The only way to draw out the items from inventories is to pay a higher price-I know if I saw a high jump or a high offer price on the item I would be inclined to dump what I had-I have in the past but I am certainly not going to put a few on the auction so a reseller can grab up 5 auctions worth of them and relist the bundle for a 100% more which is exactly what has happened in the past.
 
I think your initiative might have had some effect. I just looted 3 ATAUs from a mid-maturity feffoid. :eek:

I had to check it twice to make sure they were advanced instead of basic.

+Rep for this.
 
Naifas Anaconda said:
I think the problem is a high demand of ATAU from craft. Try to hunt some big atrox (provider and above) or aurlis and they will show up in your loot window. I have been stockpiling them in my inventory to supply a crafter in my soc. But yes, the high demand from craft is not followed by enough drop of ATAU, hence the high inflation of those.
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Big trox couple K ammo, no atau drop for me.

Anyway, it should be a bit higher imo
 
NastyCenturion said:
in 1 week on low aurly/kreltin i gathered 12 atau ... average 2k ped amo/day
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Yep, it seems to have changed from looting "a few ATAUs every now and then" to "seeing them once in a blue moon" :silly2:

It makes you wonder just how much MA think about the way things are balanced. They either think about it so much they can't stop fiddling with it or they don't pay it enough attention so "problems" get worse.

I mean, Korss 400s drop less, now P5s are rising in price because of the drop rate of ATAUs. This affects Apis' too. We had the recent down-turn in mid-range (8-14ish) HL pistols - every "adjustment" has an affect on players and I'm not sure MA realise just how much of an affect it is...

It's in MA's interest to ensure the players have enough to hunt with but what are we supposed to do if there isn't enough supply? :confused: This lack of (or excessive and mis-guided) control is going to bite MA in the arse if it carries on as people simply won't be able to hunt because of a lack of weapons.
 
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As a consumer of Apis, I'm glad that the supply is growing and the price is dropping. But that price drop will eventually make more atau's available for other items, as fewer people will craft Apis, I think.
 
Phil Surtees said:
The example I recall is a Shriek Offensive. It calls for 1 xeremite, but it's not worth it, even though it's an ok gun.
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Your missing the point, if that gun had a demand then yes it would be worth the Xeremite cost, but the fact remains no-one wants that gun so its not worth using Xeremite.

There BP's we are discussing are for guns in HIGH demand, and if there is a mid-high drop of ATAU's (which I doubt there is), then the people stockpiling till they have 30 or so or the current demand from crafters is killing the supply to crafters.

Gandolf said:
Well I don't loot ATAU everyday but I get enough of them to think the drop rate is fine. The issue at hand is that I, probably like most others and definetely like some other posters here, don't run to the auction everytime I loot a few. I stockpile them until I have enough to make a good auction--I also supply crafter friends and soc mates with some here and there which delays the placement on auction even longer. If I have 20 and a soc m8 needs 14 I sell him the 14 and keep the six and start stockpiling over again--when I hit 25-30 I dump on auction.
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How long and how much ammo does it take to get to 30 ATAU's? Do you relalise that 80 is what I need to do 20 clicks on P5a which will give 6-8 guns back (ok QR on BP), and if I wanted to do 20 clicks on Apis I need 140 ATAU's to yield maybe 6-8 guns. Now add the fact these are (L) guns in high demand and I have multiple hunters buying 5x P5a per week so i'm looking to get about 120 every second day, I know I would need more if I could get them, but the lack of supply has meant I managed through placing an order that was highest on auction to only get 6 this week so far. Reason, as soon as I outbid someone else's order they just increase thiers which renders my order dead and I will need to remove and add again but higher again.

Miller said:
Yep, it seems to have changed from looting "a few ATAUs every now and then" to "seeing them once in a blue moon"
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I've spent 1000 ped on ammo this week on Trox (big losses on every hunt) I got no ATAU's from them. went to CP with 2 SOC mates spent 5h solid hunting I personally burned about 600 ped ammo so multiply that by 3 and we got 4 in 1 loot.

So yeah your correct about the drop rate changing, and yes the supply has also risen.
 
Phil Surtees said:
As a consumer of Apis, I'm glad that the supply is growing and the price is dropping. But that price drop will eventually make more atau's available for other items, as fewer people will craft Apis, I think.
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The price dropped to 205% and has risen back to about 220% if i'm correct, and I think is still rising.
 
I have a post at the start of this thread. And this is what MA said to me.

25 Jun 2008 You wrote:

Since your update the drop rate of Advanced Target Assessment units has almost stopped and then you dropped the Apis(L) BP that requires more of them. There is to much demand on this product and not enough in game. You have loads of BP's that require's Advanced Target Assessment units and there becoming rare. Please increase the drop rate.

25 Jun 2008 Entropia Support:

Hi, Thanks for taking the time to submit your suggestions. We really appreciate this kind of feedback and have forwarded your suggestions to the design team.

Unfortunately we are unable to say whether your suggestions will be implemented now or in the future, but please stay tuned to the News section and Version Update Content Lists on the website.

Thanks,
Entropia Support


Also the drop rate is that bad that we had a 3 man team on CP burnt over 500-1000ped ammo each easy and came back with 4 ATAU's between us from 3 Domes.

Are you telling me thats normal to come back with ONLY 4?
 
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Gandolf said:
I stockpile them until I have enough to make a good auction--I also supply crafter friends and soc mates with some here and there which delays the placement on auction even longer. If I have 20 and a soc m8 needs 14 I sell him the 14 and keep the six and start stockpiling over again--when I hit 25-30 I dump on auction.

If the market can bare the higher prices of the gun then pay a higher price for the materials if the market cannot bare the higher listing price of the gun-DON"T CRAFT THE GUN! The only way to draw out the items from inventories is to pay a higher price-I know if I saw a high jump or a high offer price on the item I would be inclined to dump what I had-I have in the past but I am certainly not going to put a few on the auction so a reseller can grab up 5 auctions worth of them and relist the bundle for a 100% more which is exactly what has happened in the past.
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well easy solution to fuck the resellers mate, fill the crafters orders or supply directly to them, in stead of auctioning something worth bugger all (which they are to me when i loot em, tt is nothing, mark up is a treat lol) for as much markup as you can.

in response to the drop rate, the definately come in waves for me, and they seem to drop of quite a few different mobs. I don't think the drop is THAT bad, just that demand is so high. Mine will always go straight from loot window to order filling.
 
Mojoswoptops said:
well easy solution to fuck the resellers mate, fill the crafters orders or supply directly to them, in stead of auctioning something worth bugger all (which they are to me when i loot em, tt is nothing, mark up is a treat lol) for as much markup as you can.

in response to the drop rate, the definately come in waves for me, and they seem to drop of quite a few different mobs. I don't think the drop is THAT bad, just that demand is so high. Mine will always go straight from loot window to order filling.
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The sad thing is that I found out that about half those orders ARE resellers - who are now stockpiling these components for sale when they hit 5k%, or higher!

Easiest way to screw them over, just get a good crafter whom you sell to at a decent price, and get good products back at a good discount :cool:. Works every time!
 
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