Question: Does using armor increases the skill gains for Evader profession?

[mdubeyg]

Does using armor increases the skill gains for Evader profession?
if no, then what is the best way to gain evade?

 

[NightwolfAA2k5]

Hard to say, as I haven't really looked into it. Some people have told me it doesn't, but just as many have told me it does

 

[remontoire]

Does using armor increases the skill gains for Evader profession?

No, it doesn't. Bigger hits sometimes give you larger gains in Evade. If you need armor to deal withe the larger hits, it might seem that you get more evade from wearing armor, but you would get the same without. You would just have more fap decay (and paramedic skillgains) to go with it.

Oh, and don't count skill lines. That will really tell you nothing in the end.

 

[MarieWoodell]

Does using armor increases the skill gains for Evader profession?

I've only ever been told that wearing armour lowers your evade skill gains. I've never tested it however. I seriously doubt it increases it. I do know that so far in my usage of armour I've never ever got an evade skill gain when I get only 1 dmg from being over armoured. That could just be the limited amount I've over armoured however.

 

[Franz Jaeger]

I've heard a couple of times that naked hunting = more skillgain...
I've tried it many times and I havn't seen any significant difference, but it's a nice challenge, so I keep doing it from time to time.

 

[CeePee]

I can't say I know for sure, but since you do lose more pecs when wearing armour it should make sense to get more skillgains..

Never noticed any difference myself.

 

[davidgr1200]

There is a way that armour will give you more evade and that is by keeping you alive for longer (and thus enabling you to be hit more often and so gain more evade that way). After all, if you are dead or at the revival you are not getting evade points.

 

[endermigne]

I've heard a couple of times that naked hunting = more skillgain...
I've tried it many times and I havn't seen any significant difference, but it's a nice challenge, so I keep doing it from time to time.

That's also what I was told years ago. However, I don't know if anything changed there.

Since I don't have armour and never used one, I can't test it .

 

[mastermesh]

There is a way that armour will give you more evade and that is by keeping you alive for longer (and thus enabling you to be hit more often and so gain more evade that way). After all, if you are dead or at the revival you are not getting evade points.

yep. That's how it helps.

 

[Atraie]

Strictly thinking. I dont think that using armor provides any skill benefit. IE the decay to the armor is not counted in the skill up equation.

However, armor can let you gain evade faster by virtue of letting you survive longer. More time standing in front of a creature giving you skill ups instead of running back from the revival terminal.

Or if you are fapping vs using armor as a means to gain evade. The amount of evade gain per ped spent should be cheaper with armor. Probably about twice as much evade per ped via armor because its more efficient then fapping. Of course with fapping, you gain medical skills too. However id wager the total skill volume per ped spent will still be higher using armor instead of fapping.

So, armor can help you gain more evade, but only indirectly.

-----------

Oh and doing the revive suicide over and over to gain evade is just a complete waste of time. Ive tried it before, the skill gains are so so SO SLOW. Wasting a few hours and maybe getting 1 skill point of evade is just crap!

And beyond that, if you do it in a populated area you will just piss off hunters as you agro extra mobs onto them.

 

[M Rufen Power]

Here's what I know folks..

First of all I just want to say thank you to the original poster . I was going to do a thread about this, but since I already knew the answer I cudnt ask this question from my persective so thank you . Now to answer this question with as much detail and analysis as I possibly can.

Does using armor increases the skill gains for Evader profession?

Yes

I can't say I know for sure, but since you do lose more pecs when wearing armour it should make sense to get more skillgains.. Never noticed any difference myself.

Yes, very true it shud make sense & imo it does

There is a way that armour will give you more evade and that is by keeping you alive for longer (and thus enabling you to be hit more often and so gain more evade that way). After all, if you are dead or at the revival you are not getting evade points.

& yes again. Now I'll share with you guys what I know from personal tests on me & others.

I'm not surprised that a lot of ppl have said no to this poll. Thus it makes me happy to say that your all wrong . I'm also surprised noone has even noticed it. Ok let me start by saying that, yes you get more evade when wearing armour & I'll tell you why that is. In my very personal opinioin I believe that evade is somehow connected to the number of hits that an avatar takes, as well as the amount of damage per pec, as well as other factors.

All I've been doing this year is trying to skill up my evade profession as cheaply as possible or for free, while sweating in armour. I'm sure a lot of you have seen me @ S. camp doing this . My goal was to reach 500 evade by sweating as fast as possible now having achieved it in about 6 months (thou on & off) I'm now after 1k or level 5 evader. Currently on 810 evade been a busy boy, & is working . I skill up evade because its a free skill to get but one of the hardest to skill therefore its valuable to others. Also because evade gives 1 of the greatest contribtion to agility so I can also gain HP. So this was my goal get HP by skilling all the skills under Coolness that give HP. Simple.

Now to share what I've observered skilling evade for the past few months. Evade comes in cycles, no big shock...what that means is for a very long time even after being hit lots you won't get any evade depending on where you are on the cycle and how big the cycle is. Which is probably the reason most players dnt notice that they gain evade when using armour. Because they've either past the cycle or nearing to it. Then when the evade comes they miss it in the heat of battle or other reasons.

Let me now describe the cycles, so best to use an example. Evade comes in burts in those cycles very quickly, you can get anywhere from 2-5 complete evade points & after which you have to wait a longer period to return to that point in the cycle where you gained the evade points. So say for arguements sake this cycle was 1000 hits. Lets start first by saying we just gained some evade so now the cycle has restarted & now you need to be hit 1000 times before getting any evade again. "Just a quick mention here, that there is no real way to even know how big the cycles are unless ur willing to get hit & count them ." Thou I think the cycles get bigger after a few gains or levels but I'm not sure about that & need further testing. So lets say your half way at 500 you need to be hit 500 more to end the cycle and so forth, I'm sure u get the picture now .

So where does the armour come in? Simple, like Davidgr pointed out that armour keeps you alive for longer by taking much of the damage. In essence rapidly accellerating the momentum & hits needed to cycle faster through those cycles of evade, here's the interesting bit thou about what armour I would suggest you use, & this is what I mean by free. I got this idea from one that ppl used to do before MA took it out . "Another quick note: I absolutely would not suggest using the "tank" method of getting evade this is very expensive to do even with the least decaying armour. I tried this and lost about 1ped per minute for 30 mins so dn't do it for your own good. I had about 16 daikibas & exa's on me & when the protection started to wear thin I used my fap-50. What fun that was ."

The idea was from chirpies, they used to attack you and only recieve 1 damage ppl did this to buff up their evade & the acid pools, very easily but when MA found out, it was removed and now all birds run away from you . So what I'm getting at is to sweat or swunt in armour that gives you 1 damage or better still an average of 1 damage. I would suggest skilling evade on very low level mobs the easiest which are found at you know SWEAT CAMP .

They are the weakest and therefore your decay on your armour would be far less than if you did this on atrox using ghost...enough said. So its ur minimal decay you need on the armour. The best configuration I've found for not over protecting technically as the max damage is still a factor that could very well happen of max 4 damage, so ppl dnt start saying I'm crazy cause I've actually done it. Is Goblin armour plus 4B plates. This will keep you alive indefinately no doubt about it . This armour is good on snables and bibo's anything lower than 17 damage on melee & you really are over protecting. To my knowledge only sabakuma's, daikiba's & even bercycled's do less damage, not sure about exasaurs or corns, so stay away from them.

Thou this is where it gets a little more intersting which now makes me point out what CeePee has stated. It would make sense that you gain more evade if something was decaying since everything else in this game you use to skill up with decays, even if some things only very slowly. The only exception to this would be the, yep youve guessed the VSE sweat tool . I've tried many various combination of armours & plates but not all, to see what would be best or most cost effective for the sweat I earned. To be fair thou Goblin & 4B plates would keep you alive & is the most eco your probably looking to get a lot of decay of around 4-5peds per k take note that this is only a guess. So effectively losing all of your profits if not more, thou looking back in hind sight I've noticed something while writing this up for you guys.

I got the most evade from that goblin combination of about 5+ full evade points very quickly and very easily. I also let someone else use this armour when they had 200 evade and they went to 230 in a matter of minutes so I'm not just saying stuff without prove or testing it's just a lil harder for me since I had more evade than that person back then. As we all very well know that when your skilling a new profession you get gains a lot faster, therefore making it more noticeable and thats why I did it . Lets just say that the volounteer was more than estatic with the results.

Since getting more evade over the past few weeks I can now cutdown on the overall protection my armour gives me to an average of 5 damage on entropedia. Still very well much alive no doubt to my evade . The best set for that is Pioneer + 2B plates which I now have. Before I was using Pioneer + 2C plates and I gained about 3-4 full evade points with a cost of around 1.50-2.00ped decay so some profit left. Last set I've been using is Settler been using it for the past 3 weeks and have seen I gain somewhere in the region of 1-3 full evade points during the course of a day so lower , the decay is around 0.00-1.50. I'm just giving you my analysis and results from different setups to now fully answer CeePee's statement.

Looking back I guess I got the most evade with the most damage per pec armour setup I had. So I'd agree with that as there is some evidence to support that. Thou the gains don't necessarily mean better due to decay like I said I havnt tested every single possible setup yet but will do eventually, & thou I never used that goblin to sweat with but used it to "tank" I saw gains like never before. I would recommend whoever using an armour with an average of 5 damage or less the gains will still be noticeable even if its less, the decay would be more manageable.

Okay sorry guys for making this a long one but since the opportunity arose, might as well take advantage of it. I've tried to make it as cohesive as possible in writing this, so if its a bit off please forgive me as I was typing it quite briskfully. I'm not sure what ppl will make of my findings, whether you will change your minds, if it was helpful to some degree or you completely disagree. Well I simply don't care, I just felt I could share something I know some little about that could be of some help to another player is my only incentive.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed gains while using armour. I know a few ppl do it still & I for one will continue to do so, as I've got my own targets like getting 5 evade each day which is very possible looking back at my findings just need to test more stuff out. Hopefully I have answered the quotes above as best as possible, I hope you guys appreciate what I have written & don't completely write it off without trying it for urself.

Edit: Btw I hope after reading this that tons of ppl don't start doing it as MA will probably put a stop to it . Thou doing it my way requires a lot of time and patience, forget the effort thou .

~Mark~ & his mighty 2 pecs .

 

[M Rufen Power]

No, it doesn't. Bigger hits sometimes give you larger gains in Evade. If you need armor to deal withe the larger hits, it might seem that you get more evade from wearing armor, but you would get the same without. You would just have more fap decay (and paramedic skillgains) to go with it.

Oh, and don't count skill lines. That will really tell you nothing in the end.

Ok this is an interesting one, one I think I could answer. If this was a few months back I would of agreed with ur first comment. But now I'm not so sure I would. Thou my answer would be a yes, I personally have gained an evade point or two from being overkilled by an uber mob, this has happened a few times, also not wearing armour & having low HP if not Max. Thou.. I must say that those hits would count towards the cycle if not 2 counts. Maybe each huge hit or over kill counts as 2 on the cycle scale? Maybe so in which case I agree to disagree, thou I don't plan on getting repeatedly mauled over by an Atrox Stalker as this almost seems like suicide skilling which is very slow. I've tried gaining evade also by just using a fap on merps when hunting them & it was very frustrating I got less evade skills than using armour in terms of decay and this was when I was low in evade, more compelling evidence to support evade gains with armour . Thou you could very easily gain anywhere from 40-50 evade in one day thou I wouldn't like to guess the cost in decay from it.

Strictly thinking. I dont think that using armor provides any skill benefit. IE the decay to the armor is not counted in the skill up equation.

However, armor can let you gain evade faster by virtue of letting you survive longer. More time standing in front of a creature giving you skill ups instead of running back from the revival terminal.

Or if you are fapping vs using armor as a means to gain evade. The amount of evade gain per ped spent should be cheaper with armor. Probably about twice as much evade per ped via armor because its more efficient then fapping. Of course with fapping, you gain medical skills too. However id wager the total skill volume per ped spent will still be higher using armor instead of fapping.

So, armor can help you gain more evade, but only indirectly.

-----------

Oh and doing the revive suicide over and over to gain evade is just a complete waste of time. Ive tried it before, the skill gains are so so SO SLOW. Wasting a few hours and maybe getting 1 skill point of evade is just crap!

And beyond that, if you do it in a populated area you will just piss off hunters as you agro extra mobs onto them.

Maybe your right Atraie maybe the gains are indirectly attributed to using armour and its decay & definately using armour would cost less in decay. But whether it is indirectly or directly it is still skills gained, not just evade.

Doing the suicide skilling on its own doesnt work since MA nerved this a long time ago when ppl where doing this method. Thou using settler while suiciding does seem to have some gains still even if slower. Thou the decay would not be free as ur not sweating any of it back.

 

[AtamiKiangola]

I said "yes", because I noticed paying more decay gives me faster skills.

Simple test :

- Stand in a large bunch of merp with gremlin
- Stand in a large bunch of merp with shadow

Time it for 5 min.
count evade.

I can't test it .. my evade is to high to notice.

Atami

 

[WoenK]

There is a way that armour will give you more evade and that is by keeping you alive for longer (and thus enabling you to be hit more often and so gain more evade that way). After all, if you are dead or at the revival you are not getting evade points.

I think there is also a time limit on how long you can get skills from a mob, else you could skill evade AFK for ages.
At one point, I did not get any skills anymore after two minutes on mobs with less than 600 heatlh, but has been quite some time I tried it out (pre VU9.3?).
The only think I could think of giving higher evade skills (per average hit) is a mob with high maturity/damage output/health with can surely not be survived without armour.

 

[M Rufen Power]

I think there is also a time limit on how long you can get skills from a mob, else you could skill evade AFK for ages.

Actually you can provided you can stay alive through it I know someone who does this on a regular basis at camp & has had gd results thou not conclusive. Which is why swamp camp imo is the best place to skill up ur evade whatever ur profession level

I think there is also a time limit on how long you can get skills from a mob, else you could skill evade AFK for ages.

You obviously didnt read my post above yours, time has nothing to do with it . If it where it would be a matter of time before people would notice evade gains in armour which it seems they havent .

At one point, I did not get any skills anymore after two minutes on mobs with less than 600 heatlh, but has been quite some time I tried it out (pre VU9.3?). The only think I could think of giving higher evade skills (per average hit) is a mob with high maturity/damage output/health with can surely not be survived without armour.

That is interesting thou, a mob with 600HP+ seriously? Maybe it was the stage at which you where in on the cycle?? The part about maturity does not matter only how many hits you take not how much damage. Thou I must say I don't hunt big ass mobs to find out, unless in team. Hits & damage are totally different I can give you another example from my previous comments. How much damage do you think 1000 hits from a combibo young would be?

Ah lot 17 X 1000 = 17000 if you where to survive that amount in segments from a much stronger mob you probably would get the same evade gains as the lower mob but at a higher rate of decay. So which is better? If I were to take ur points about "a mob with high maturity/damage output/health" then wouldnt my skill gains be 0? Which is obviously not true or maybe your evade is so high you feel you need to take on that mob? I anycase I don't agree with your theory. Any damaged recieved no matter how big or small earns decay & any decay earns u defence skills. I just prefer for my decay to be as minimal as possible.

Thou it has made me question my own results as nothing I find is absolute, as we know EU is dynamic so its good to think out the box. For someone with a budget of a "sweater" my method works for me & anyone else who would like to try them. To skill evade on atrox just isn't fun or possible for me even thou I could do it, just aint worth it. As I think the skills on evade earnt from camp mobs is exactly the same on higher mobs, maybe you also havent noticed but ever 3 skill points give you 1 full evade point. Food for thought Woenk .

 

[XeroX2]

I said "yes", because I noticed paying more decay gives me faster skills.

Simple test :

- Stand in a large bunch of merp with gremlin
- Stand in a large bunch of merp with shadow

Time it for 5 min.
count evade.

I can't test it .. my evade is to high to notice.

Atami

I can't test it .. I don`t have a shadow.

 

[AtamiKiangola]

I can't test it .. I don`t have a shadow.

well, I basically mean 1 low decaying armor and 1 high(er) decaying armor.

In the past people gained skills forever fapping on a bunch of mobs. Then MA stopped that and I remember some guy in "Angel" saying he still got loads of skills on rippersnappers while with other armor he didn't.

So I can only imagine decay made the difference as he was standing there only.

Atami

 

[WoenK]

As I think the skills on evade earnt from camp mobs is exactly the same on higher mobs, maybe you also havent noticed but ever 3 skill points give you 1 full evade point. Food for thought Woenk .

one full evade for 3 skillgains ?!
Shyte, that would be nice again, only got that the first month

Seriously, was hunting almost only Allophyls Young-Old 2 years ago, allways in Ghost+6B and did some insane tests like killing them with an amped Opalo.
At some point into the "fight" I did not get any skills anymore, I thought there might be a cap to avoid AFK skilling ( long time ago it was possible to skill Paramedic with an autoclicker and it got nerfed).
Shortly afterwards I started hunting Troxis Young-Old in Ghost+5B and noticed that after some time I would not get any evade connected skills if I simply stand around and FAP.

Now I notice, that if I hunt Leviathans in Martial+5B for a longer time I get more skills in evader than when roughly cycling the same ammo amount on Troxis in Goblin+5Bs. Sure, could be my imagination, but above level 25 evader skilling is so darn slow that you notice 10 skillpoints from 200 Troxis in 4 hours compared to 15 skill points off 50 Leviathans in 2 hours.

 

[Alice]

first of all, from my 2 tests on merps, with 10 000 hit each, one without armor one with bodyguard L and 2d L or so platings, i didnt get a noticeable difference in evade

also, i dont think that the "i got 500 evade with armor, dude with 200 went to 230 in no time" really counts

the tt value of 230 or 500 points is already quite some difference, so unless that stuff is calculated by the tt value of the evade skill gain, its rather useless

that means same mob, same armor, longer period of time


counting the hits is actually very very easy

you just need L armor, best fully repaired
find a mob which does ALWAYS more damage than the armor protects, so the decay on the armor stays the same each hit
since its L armor the decay will stay the same even when the tt value gets lower

that way you have
-the same protection for the whole testing phase
-the same decay therefore for the whole testing phase
-the way to calc the amount of hits, cause you know the decay per hit, just check with total decay and you got the amount of hits


i am fairly sure that a bigger mob gives more volume in a skill gain when it gives any gain, compared to a small one
likely the bigger mob will come with more "cost" tho, since you are very likely going to fap/use armor


but to make sure, i guess Atami's test would be neat to varify anything


edit, forgot something

ofc you gotta take the slower skill gain every 500 pts into the equation as well (the higher the skill the more noticable that one gets ^^)

 

[M Rufen Power]

Sheesh Woenk that is some serious decay testing maybe your right but since this worked in pre vu-10 don't mean it still does today. Why not give it a shot & let us know how it goes ?

 

[M Rufen Power]

Wise words Alice, & you are right 200 and 500 are different & I know that. I said it wud be more noticeable I mean he was getting a skill every ten hits. For me the cycle wud be higher maybe 100 hits if not more. All I know is the gains where identical with the same armour just @ a longer duration for me than him.

Like I said I havent tried out every possible combination was just showing that CeePee's comment had some merit which I think it does. I have on me a L BG set at full TT from fuega that I'm ready to test out using ur suggestion, with some 2C plates. Then after will use a high protecting armour like Knight, as Atami has suggested & see the differences in skills gain by how many hits & decay, like u suggested Alice.

Will be interesting to see which one gives the most tt value of evade & to see if there is any corralation to the decay, from different sets used.

 

[Alice]

definitely, happy testing

although you may try to get at least a rough idea on amount of hits too, to compare

with the L stuff its easy to guess, the knight may be more troublesome, but it could still give a rough idea

 

[M Rufen Power]

definitely, happy testing

although you may try to get at least a rough idea on amount of hits too, to compare

with the L stuff its easy to guess, the knight may be more troublesome, but it could still give a rough idea

Yep ty Alice will keep that in mind. Count hits & amount of time spent sweating/ swunting, not the amount of sweat gained. Maybe 2 hours first round of tests then 4 & maybe another at 8hours, guess I'll be very tired. As well as how many skill points earnt in those time periods.

 

[xgengrant]

There is a way that armour will give you more evade and that is by keeping you alive for longer (and thus enabling you to be hit more often and so gain more evade that way). After all, if you are dead or at the revival you are not getting evade points.

yep. That's how it helps.

Yep ,I agree that's what I have noticed

 

[WoenK]

Sheesh Woenk that is some serious decay testing maybe your right but since this worked in pre vu-10 don't mean it still does today. Why not give it a shot & let us know how it goes ?

I think something like that would not work that well anymore, because I rarely get evade skills now anyway and they can not hit me that often. Also my skillgains with Opalo are almost non existant, on lower level mobs it can even happen that I do not get a single one in 5 kills (...but I could level my no-looter" skill, if that message gave skills ).
I rather spent my PEDs on other tests

 

[M Rufen Power]

LOL fair enough Woenk

 

[Amenophis]

Armor , weapon, tool using increase evade gains as much as any gains associated to the corresponding professions for the simple fact that decay is converted into skill gains. However, the odds for defensive skills to be completely generated from defending and healing costs are very high. The higher the tt , the higher the gains. The higher the mark of the decayed tt the bigger the loss of the player. Not using armor is just plain stupid if your goal is to skill evade and you don't have enough hp and evade + healing power to compensate the lower economy of the fap in terms of skill gains per pec including the medical skills gains also.
I don't think defensive skills and medical ones are separated in terms of formulas. They are the outputs of the same formula and the gains of either one of them are proportional to the spent tt.

 

[JohnCapital]

I've never ever got an evade skill gain when I get only 1 dmg from being over armoured. That could just be the limited amount I've over armoured however.

This comment stuck in my head, so paid attention the next few days.

While wearing grem+5B, a stray argo scout hit me (1.0 of course) and I got both evade and combat sense gain in that hit. Was only mob on me at the time, so no mistake.

Even at 95% repair, I can't get above 1.0 from any argo under a scavenger, so I'm thinking this might qualify as "over armored".

As for the rest, all I know is I stay alive, and they die. Slowly (s-l-o-w-l-y) my evade eventually raises. Not much else I can see.

I've received other evade profession gains while over, under, or non-armored, so not sure of the "impact" so to speak.

 

[ruslan]

Skillgain has nothing to do with decay, but there is an indirect type of relationship.

The more you are able to absorb, the faster is the gain, since you dont have to heal or wait for your health bar to regen. Your price is Your Time or Your PED.

So, whether you don't use an armor and get hit for -50hp or do use an armor and absorb -50hp the skillgain would be identical. The price to skill would be different.

If you skill to be a hunter - get a low-decay-high-damage-absorbing armor and a healer and your evade skill will grow much much faster. BUT, make sure to choose mobs, which don't Crit you over your HP amount.

The more critical hits you get (the more damage your avatar absorbs), the better is the skillgain.


Crits FTW!

 

[MarieWoodell]

This comment stuck in my head, so paid attention the next few days.

While wearing grem+5B, a stray argo scout hit me (1.0 of course) and I got both evade and combat sense gain in that hit. Was only mob on me at the time, so no mistake.

Even at 95% repair, I can't get above 1.0 from any argo under a scavenger, so I'm thinking this might qualify as "over armored".

As for the rest, all I know is I stay alive, and they die. Slowly (s-l-o-w-l-y) my evade eventually raises. Not much else I can see.

I've received other evade profession gains while over, under, or non-armored, so not sure of the "impact" so to speak.

Cool. thanks for paying attention to that one. I rarely over armour so wasn't soemthing I'd had a lot of experience with. It's good to know it doesn't effect skill gains.