Question: How about investing in an investment fund?

[mrproper]

Would you store 50 PED in an random fund if they offered at least:
- I can't invest, not enough money or too risky for me
- 1% a week
- 2% a week
- 3% a month
- 4% a month
- 5% a month

Vote above. Post/comment reasons if you think they're important. Poll choices crafted to get feedback on the appearances/math decision factors of poll answers.

 

[Igorl]

Basically apart from keeping tiny and risky sale/buy margin for occasional high trade volume mats I dont see any nice investing opportunities in this game at the time being.

All other things are overpriced for the risk / gain ratio this game offers.

Therefore I selected first oppinion.

Regards

I.

 

[DeeDee]

I vote No.

I would not invest in any random fund, regardless of promised return rate.
What is important is who is behind the fund, and what is the idea and method their using.

 

[Nirfu]

How can "I can't invest, not enough money or too risky for me" have most votes.

A 50 PED hunt has much higher risk than investing it in a fund.

Maybe it's not the risk? You should've split the first option in to three.

I voted 3% since that's better than basic bank intrest.

 

[Torlin]

How can "I can't invest, not enough money or too risky for me" have most votes.

A 50 PED hunt has much higher risk than investing it in a fund.

Maybe it's not the risk? You should've split the first option in to three.

I voted 3% since that's better than basic bank intrest.

I am close to this tough.
3% a month is quite better than IRL
Maybe it's not risky but a problem of trust in somebody in virtual world.

 

[Pirx Danford]

It is not the return rate which is most important,
its the background of the fund organizer.

 

[Uvas]

3% a month is 36% return annually. How in the world could anyone sustain that rate?

Unless of course, it is a ponzi scheme.

 

[Falagor]

Would you store 50 PED in an random fund if they offered at least:
- I can't invest, not enough money or too risky for me
- 1% a week
- 2% a week
- 3% a month
- 4% a month
- 5% a month

Vote above. Post/comment reasons if you think they're important. Poll choices crafted to get feedback on the appearances/math decision factors of poll answers.

Am i stupid here or what?
Pool options:
1% a week < 2% a week
but
2% week =~ 8% month > 3% month, 4% month, 5% month?
And i asume that it will be calculated every week (54 weeks in a year) = more than +108% profit a year!

ffs 8% a month i would give it a try mayby but i would have to know at least some details on what the person wants to invest in and speak with this person in game.

@edit:
actually if there is no mistake with 2% a week then yearly income would turn 50.00peds into 142.82peds! Thats +185% profit!

Falagor

 

[mrproper]

I vote No.

I would not invest in any random fund, regardless of promised return rate.
What is important is who is behind the fund, and what is the idea and method their using.

It is not the return rate which is most important,
its the background of the fund organizer.

This appears to be advantageous to you if you trust the fund manager due to shared social life. But a fund manager can't work with only friends, he has to pitch his fund to strangers, which will judge him by the numbers.

If you invest in your friend's fund, and I invest in my friend's fund, because we both know them well and like the ideas behind the funds, why would we not invest in eachother's friend's fund?

3% a month is 36% return annually. How in the world could anyone sustain that rate?

Unless of course, it is a ponzi scheme.

Actually, you can get over 1400% if you trade daily, and this is EU, not an RL economy. You know, in EU you can gut animals and take out extremely large amounts of value and sometimes even advanced technology, it might just be possible to get 36% a year (the banks ask for 30-90% if I'm not mistaken).

Am i stupid here or what?
Pool options:

No, that's just how I made the options, good spotting there. I would have appreciated not having the math visible so people would pick based on their own intellect.

 

[Mega]

I wouldn't invest in any fund.

 

[Uvas]

Actually, you can get over 1400% if you trade daily, and this is EU, not an RL economy. You know, in EU you can gut animals and take out extremely large amounts of value and sometimes even advanced technology, it might just be possible to get 36% a year (the banks ask for 30-90% if I'm not mistaken).

If this is an investment fund, may I see a prospectus?

I heard this reasoning before in that other game that has a real life currency. Was put out by that world's largest "bank". There you can create an item for no cost and sell copies of it over and over again for pure profit, so a few % a month should be easy. Several hundred thousand dollars were "invested" in the "bank". After 2 or 3 years of offering like 3% a month, the guy stopped paying out and skipped out from the game. Haven't heard if he was ever prosecuted.

Alternatively, if you can make yourself 1400% daily (lol) why the hell would you need anyone else's money? You would be a millionaire in a matter of weeks.

So this is just a friendly warning to anyone that may think there is a legit way to make such money over the long term.

 

[mrproper]

Alternatively, if you can make yourself 1400% a year why the hell would you need anyone else's money? You would be a millionaire in a matter of weeks.

I edited your reply because you misred.

Good question. Here's another one, how much money do you personally have, on which you can get 1400% a year, and how much more can you borrow to add to your own, to make 1400% a year?

 

[mrproper]

Thank you for your replies, I am glad to see some people will be happy with just 3% a month, and some people will probably invest if you can deliver more than 6% a month.

 

[Uvas]

I edited your reply because you misred.

Good question. Here's another one, how much money do you personally have, on which you can get 1400% a year, and how much more can you borrow to add to your own, to make 1400% a year?

I just quoted your quote.

I have no money that makes 1400% a year.
I know of nobody that makes 1400% a year.

That is still 116% a month. So it guess it would take you a year or so to become a milionaire from a 50 ped start.

Can't wait that long?

 

[mrproper]

I just quoted your quote.

I have no money that makes 1400% a year.
I know of nobody that makes 1400% a year.

That is still 116% a month. So it guess it would take you a year or so to become a milionaire from a 50 ped start.

Can't wait that long?

Please be careful of the context of the discussion, the quote was a reply to a "yearly rate" comment.

I know of at least 2 people that make 1400% a year on their own selves.

And it is not 116% a month, 1400% a year is a compounded rate, with monthly re-investments, so the monthly rate is about 25%. If you start with 50 ped, you get to 700 ped in a year, not with millions of ped.

Again, please follow the discussion, and try to not mess your numbers.

 

[Wolverine Queen]

Im not sure what "random fund" means in this case, I assume you mean that would I invest 50ped without knowing how you will use it.

If the person starting the fund is trustable I would invest 50peds

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

ehm... why did u put there 4 and 5% a month when all the others are in weeks? They seem pointless as they equal 0,93% and 1,17% per week respectively....

 

[mrproper]

Im not sure what "random fund" means in this case, I assume you mean that would I invest 50ped without knowing how you will use it.

If the person starting the fund is trustable I would invest 50peds

And what rate would you agree, any?

ehm... why did u put there 4 and 5% a month when all the others are in weeks? They seem pointless as they equal 0,93% and 1,17% per week respectively....

Perception manipulation tests for poll participants. Some people look beyound the upfront numbers and do math like you did.

 

[davidgr1200]

Would you store 50 PED in an random fund

Would you lend $50 to a random person who came to your door?

A fund would have to be able to show, somehow, that it is serious and that there is a chance of getting your money back. I doubt many people would be willing to invest in a "random" fund irrespective of how much it claimed to give in interest. If I were to invest in a fund I would want some guarantees and some sort of legal recourse to get my money back if something went wrong. Otherwise I would see it as a "donation".

 

[kosmos]

I say stay away from the funds. Almost all I seen have failed or had questionable things happen.

 

[DeeDee]

This appears to be advantageous to you if you trust the fund manager due to shared social life. But a fund manager can't work with only friends, he has to pitch his fund to strangers, which will judge him by the numbers.

If you invest in your friend's fund, and I invest in my friend's fund, because we both know them well and like the ideas behind the funds, why would we not invest in eachother's friend's fund?

I did not say anything about the need to be friends.. I was talking about the managers reputation and how he presents his plan and how the strategy is formed.

 

[mrproper]

A fund would have to be able to show, somehow, that it is serious and that there is a chance of getting your money back. I doubt many people would be willing to invest in a "random" fund irrespective of how much it claimed to give in interest. If I were to invest in a fund I would want some guarantees and some sort of legal recourse to get my money back if something went wrong. Otherwise I would see it as a "donation".

I did not say anything about the need to be friends.. I was talking about the managers reputation and how he presents his plan and how the strategy is formed.

To answer to both of you, if you don't think you can answer to this question easily, pick the first poll option.

If you think that after having a satisfactory review of the fund, you decide to invest 50 PED, but only if the return rate is enough to make it up for your effort and funds freeze, then which of the rates in the poll, would you start considering the investment for?

 

[Wolverine Queen]

And what rate would you agree, any?

I voted for 2% a week.

I dont afford to invest large amounts (500+ped) and with smaller amounts I want decent rate so i actually make more then 50pecs a week

 

[LeWolf86]

3% a month is 36% return annually. How in the world could anyone sustain that rate?

Unless of course, it is a ponzi scheme.

Quite easily up to a certain point...

Im not sure how to illustrate the graph... which I was attempting to make.... but when you trade depending on what you trade... you can easily manage to make up to so much PED based on supplies.... but if your fund gets to big or you borrow to much... then eventually your going to hit your maximum potential.... and after that you can only hope to maintain it.... as your profit relies on sellers to come to you....


Making 3% a month is easy.... I can do 1% a week easily with barely any effort..... Problem is depending on how much PED you've borrowed it becomes harder to make money with the borrowed money as to make even 1% a week you need to turn the full amount of that money....

The real problem for funds is 2 things.... one to high of an interest rate promise... can make it quite demanding.... your next problem is suppliers... without them you dont make money... if something happens to big suppliers you lose out... if you have them all... then your cash flow is connected to their success....

As for investing.... nah I wouldn't.... Ive tempted to idea to get back into trading and possibly start up a small fund for investors... problem is so many people have been burned...

As for %... I voted 2% if I was to invest... but for a safe investment Id take 1.5%, 1% is easily done a week.... 2% can be tricky, but not impossible....


Id say a good investment strategy is about 10,000 working PED... whether some is yours or not... that means @ 1-2% a week your paying out 100-200ped... meaning you need to make 14.3 - 28.6ped per day trading... which isn't hard if you've got some suppliers.... starting from scratch would be rough though.

 

[LeWolf86]

Also I think as Proper said... I think many of you are calculating compounding interest... and depending on the fund manager that might be ok, but might not be also...

I think best thing for investors is to just throw one sum in, and take weekly or biweekly payouts to ensure that you are getting money almost immediately... it ensures that if a fund did go belly up as unfourtunately many have which ruins potential of them in the future.... it allows the potential loss for the investors to remain smaller each passing week.... at 2% weekly, at 3.25 months you've already reduced your total risk of loss by 25%.... and if you decide to pull your money out at any time you've just made a portion on that money....

 

[mrproper]

Also I think as Proper said... I think many of you are calculating compounding interest... and depending on the fund manager that might be ok, but might not be also...

I think best thing for investors is to just throw one sum in, and take weekly or biweekly payouts to ensure that you are getting money almost immediately... it ensures that if a fund did go belly up as unfourtunately many have which ruins potential of them in the future.... it allows the potential loss for the investors to remain smaller each passing week.... at 2% weekly, at 3.25 months you've already reduced your total risk of loss by 25%.... and if you decide to pull your money out at any time you've just made a portion on that money....

Ideally, to cover the risk factor, you would need to be able to invest in several funds, it is very unlikely that ALL of them will crash, and even those that crashed will return SOME of your investment. So for example, if you had 33 funds with 3% monthly, you could have one of those funds crash every month, and you would not lose money.

I also think it is very important for a fund to prevent ponzi-ism, so it doesn't inflate faster at the beginning, or when more people participate, and then deflate drastically when people cash out.

And yes, when asking for investors, you should have a target PED fund in mind, where it can actually pay your time from the profits you make (like at least 40 ped for one hour of participation, this could give you one hour of free play time).

 

[jb-aristide]

well i was about to make a long post but Lewolf did it very well already, so here some extra comments:

- For a pro trader is not difficult to make 2% per week. Some of them can make 1% daily and consistenly for very long time (months/years).

- Any investment has a risk associated. Reduce risk by diversifying. Design a personal portfolio, include all your assets in it. Do not let another person decide your risk profile or you will become sick.

- I consider that investing in a fund here is far more risky than investing in Hawaii municipal bonds during a massive volcano explosion.

cya
Baalat

ps. i'm a trader (not playing atm cos of RL)

 

[RidingDirty]

Would you store 50 PED in an random fund if they offered at least:
- I can't invest, not enough money or too risky for me
- 1% a week
- 2% a week
- 3% a month
- 4% a month
- 5% a month

Vote above. Post/comment reasons if you think they're important. Poll choices crafted to get feedback on the appearances/math decision factors of poll answers.

Havent read the thread but you do relize that 1% a week is 4% a month

I would need at least 1% a weekwhen investing in entropia.

If I would get offered 2-3% a week from a trustworthy person I would hand out money right away.

 

[LeWolf86]

1% a week is easy, anything lower and thats no good.... As I said, if the investment manager is active in this game, 1.5% per week is minimum.


As for the risk factor... yes its risky.... but much like all investments in life... if you expect 100% return by the end of the year... then the risk is going to go up.... If I gave someone full collateral for their PED (due to not wanting to sell item etc etc)... I would maybe offer 1-2% a month.... as the risk factor is 0 since full collateral means that the risk of the investment is nothing....


Its like Government bonds... at least here in Canada..... pretty much 99.9% safe... but they pay such a shitty interest... its not worth putting money in them for 1 yr to get 1-2%....

If you want your investment in EU to grow... you need to roll the dice on the risk... and like I said if you ever do decide to do it... make sure you get weekly payouts... and make sure you know the rules about getting funds back if needed.... payouts will reduce risk over time... but the problem in EU is people are greedy.... IRL people will put money in a savings account or other securities getting 5% a year.... which are pretty safe sure.... but in EU they want 50-100% return rate... and little to no risk....


Dont invest what you cant afford to lose.... another solution although if investor is shady... start with small amount of PED to start with trust... if you like how things go add a bit more etc etc... and or... request information which IMO is pretty fair if your loaning out $100+.... or make sure they have good reputation among EU community, have been around a bit... and have some backing from other players....

 

[mrproper]

bump before vehicles