Is the bubble about to blow?

[Yaris]

Like a previous poster in this thread said. Once the door to the new planets will open, lots of players will be coming in. I think there`s gonna be a very big number of them, as these planets will start some serious marketing that will dwarf what MA was able to achieve by comparison. Take a look at Creative Kingdom company, they are 20x bigger company than MA. Once that happens, a very big number of players will start wanting the same uber eco rare items, that we all know won`t drop again. So I`m asking you. What will happen then?

Even at first stage of Cryengine2 launch lots of new players will come. There is a great deal of people out there that would like to see another game with best graphic engine in the world other than Crysis.

There is absolutely no evidence for this. None.

The business model of MA and First Planet is a niche product. Few people want to exist in a micro-transaction (or macro-transaction based on some prices) world.

Want proof of how niche Entropia is? Look at the number of views of the Let it Rock videos on YouTube. Right now, the highest view count is just over 2300.

I have no doubt that First Planet and Calypso will be fine. However, any initial rush the new planets get will be quickly tempered when new players find out it costs $100 for a decent weapon.

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

Yes, absolutely. Please panic sell now, and drive down market prices.

 

[TommyDaGreat]

MA is clinging on with 2x skills, 3x skills etc. and the promise of a cryengine VU that will be the salvation for us all but to be honest, EU will never be the best online game, it will never be the best looking and it will never be the most played so what are they going to do to bring all these new players from china in to the game? I make guaranteed money if i "skill upp" a character from WOW (which is what many players in china do) and all it costs is a small fee and patience...much less than sweating though.

I played that game you mentioned. I got tired after 4-5 months. Nothing to keep me ingame after awhile. The same stuff over and over again.

The best thing happening being some epic item that would get devalued in a future patch or expansion into almost nothingness. And where big dragons went from 40 man raids to single player mobs.

Hmmm...

With PE on the other hand, I have been addicted more or less in periods for over five years. Never even wishing to quit.

Nah. I like PE despite it's occasional flaws (read; red radar over the entire continent, snables dropping Imp M2870 and Hogglos doing 1 dmg) and it's what I am going to stick to for a looong time.

And about Cryengine. Well, maybe some people will be unable to play PE after this. But they can always upgrade and come back later. What seems to be forgotten here is that it will also bring tons of new players as well.

Which will start fighting for the gear again

*buys 400 Jesters and prepares*

 

[Frigid]

The people we want in game for raising prices are people who can afford a new computer and willing to invest.
People who cant afford a new computer dont really have a real affect on the market.

(I know it sounds bad, but we are discussing market trends here)

really? 1 x1000 peds is more than 10x100 peds?

Do not underestimate the effect that nickels and dimes can have on the economy. You don't think those 790,000 people who *don't* play never effected the economy even with a $10 deposit?

There can be people who *can* afford a new computer, but don't see the need to to play a game. If you just want only deep-pocketed addicts shuffling peds between each other while decay slips through the cracks...have fun!

 

[Wollongong]

Well, like someone else posted earlier... markups have nothing to do with value. I recall the example was that of an (UL) gun, with a markup so high, that one would have to use 909 (L) versions of it, just to pay for the markup (not to mention the interest lost during that time).

If the bubble bursts, this means we will see more realistic prices.

It sucks for the investors, yes, but it is not a new thing. It's just like the Gold Rush of old, only know, it is looking for virtual gold.

 

[gwit]

The reality to this unreal world we occupy is that prices becamse riduclous by MA and market manipulators. People have somehow managed to lose track of reality. No matter how you look at it - it makes absoloutely no sense to replace a car (or the value thereof) with pixels, but this is eactly what people have been doing.

Yes I know the justifications and self fulfilling prophecies but the reality is this game will fail, unless it becomes cheaper and more fun for noobies to pay, and MA improves the gameplay. It really is far too limited.

Cry may also not be the saviour

 

[Dagata]

The reality to this unreal world we occupy is that prices becamse riduclous by MA and market manipulators. People have somehow managed to lose track of reality. No matter how you look at it - it makes absoloutely no sense to replace a car (or the value thereof) with pixels, but this is eactly what people have been doing.

Yes I know the justifications and self fulfilling prophecies but the reality is this game will fail, unless it becomes cheaper and more fun for noobies to pay, and MA improves the gameplay. It really is far too limited.

Cry may also not be the saviour

We also spend inane amounts to play sports, Juniors hockey costs $8,000 a year for many people, plus equipment. MA is selling entertainment and plenty of people pay crazy amounts on entertainment.

Do you really want to commit to the statement "MA caused prices to become ridiculous, and market manipulators" because thats quite the statement and my guess is you don't have a theory to back it up

 

[Igorl]

really? 1 x1000 peds is more than 10x100 peds?

Do not underestimate the effect that nickels and dimes can have on the economy. You don't think those 790,000 people who *don't* play never effected the economy even with a $10 deposit?

There can be people who *can* afford a new computer, but don't see the need to to play a game. If you just want only deep-pocketed addicts shuffling peds between each other while decay slips through the cracks...have fun!

I totally agree with this.

And face it: EU is becoming a MMOG without the firts M letter.

The thing is: ppl basically percieve it as a GAME. Game market is an entertainment where ppl are willing to pay 50$ / copy for non subscribtion games and max 20$ / mo for subscrioption (tho ive seen many games lowering this to 14.95$ due to competition).

If MA doesnt come up with a 20$ / mo gameplay solution which WOULD INCLUDE actual progress (meaning not sweating and shooting opallo 99% of the time) they will probably stagnate and eventually deflate.

My humble oppinion is that there should be the gambling part (like there is now) and progress part which would exclude some 10k$ jackpots but have more reasonable pricecheck at the end of the month.

For all of those who speak of investments: know that most of ppl just wanna have fun. And gaming is the kind of fun which basically saves you money, not drain more of it (compared to weekend with booze and bimbos at for ex. downtown bar).


I.

 

[Igorl]

We also spend inane amounts to play sports, Juniors hockey costs $8,000 a year for many people, plus equipment. MA is selling entertainment and plenty of people pay crazy amounts on entertainment.

Do you really want to commit to the statement "MA caused prices to become ridiculous, and market manipulators" because thats quite the statement and my guess is you don't have a theory to back it up

He is not talking of leading few.

This is redicoulous:

Mid lev gun: 2k ped with markup
Mid lev armor: 3k ped with markup
Mid lev fap (L): 150 ped with markup
Mid lev amp: 150 ped with markup
Mid lev ammo / run: 500 ped
---------------------------------
That is: close to 600$ to be a mid lev... nothing special. Not the ugly haveitall player but a - mid lev player, mediocricy, average etc.

And that is entirely MA fault.
You and I see this as "normal". But ppl joining or thinking about joining see this pricetag and say - you crazy man (this is actually empiricly tested on all my buddies, at work, barflies, childhood friends etc.) Trust me, it takes a whole number of human traits to be drawn into this game, too many to make it massive enough, sadly .

600$ is amount i havent spent on games in my lifetime. And I had plenty of fun, trust me.

I.

 

[Stave]

One thing I do see, is that if CryEngine2 will *require* some people to upgrade to play(I know I'd have to), some people may not be able to play as they can't afford a new computer right now.

There are other games with lower requrements which are just as fun to play...if not more. Furthermore, I can play them for two months on what I might lose in a hunt in one night.

"RCE" doesn't always mean money is coming *out*of the game and into your pocket...

aparently ma seem conviced that all will be able to play because they are introducing options to turn the graphics down and other similar options to increase compatibility

 

[Dagata]

This game is geared towards people who are able to spend more money than others i'll agree, but thats what happens when you have a possibility of getting money back, and i'll also agree that it takes a strange set of personality traits to be attracted to this game.

Regardless, putting the blame on MA is still a bit of a stretch, they set the scarcity of the items yes, but the markup is still all the players fault, and driving the price up themselves, now people are getting better bearings on the value of the items and the prices are going down, not because MA is suddenly flooding the market with mid level gear.

As far as $600 to be a mid level player, you don't start out at mid level, players start cheap, and when they start having decent success or fun, they then move up.

Poker has been doing very well lately, and people still take their shots at it, and that requires at least $1500 to do anything relativly serious. Then again my friends still think i'm crazy for not thinking losing $500 in a night playing poker is a big deal

 

[Mikass]

There is absolutely no evidence for this. None.

The business model of MA and First Planet is a niche product. Few people want to exist in a micro-transaction (or macro-transaction based on some prices) world.

Want proof of how niche Entropia is? Look at the number of views of the Let it Rock videos on YouTube. Right now, the highest view count is just over 2300.

I have no doubt that First Planet and Calypso will be fine. However, any initial rush the new planets get will be quickly tempered when new players find out it costs $100 for a decent weapon.

Let it rock competition videos? Come on , what proof is that of anything. I haven`t even watched any of those on youtube and I`m a veteran player.

Oh, I think there`s pretty good evidence. One of them would be Creative Kingdom company itself that has big marketing power. They have been involved in major projects around the world, have a game studio, record label etc.
Regarding the 100usd for a gun issue. You`re probably not aware that in other MMOs players are spending lots of RL money also for virtual goods, just that system doesn`t allow them to sell their items for real cash and they user paypal transactions, western union and stuff like that on their own risk, but lots of them are doing it and some virtual property or items are selling for a alot also. Seems there are lots of people prepared to pay money for virtual stuff, as more and more people spend more and more time in virtual worlds, VR items might soon begin to take over priority over RL items. There already are players in Entropia that spent on VR clothes more than on their RL clothes or own more in virtual items and property then in RL. Other big companies like Sony noticed this great potential for virtual goods as they started Sony Exchange center where players can officially sell virtual goods for RL money. Lots of the most popular MMOs, if you check Xfire top 10 are free MMOs that base their revenue on people that buy virtual items to stand out or be proficient.

 

[Lugzan]

well, the only kind of players MA is attracting for at the moment is a low level depositor. for instance, rather a big number of LA-s given out to players in short time does not make people to risk investing big as they will most likely not earn it back (even profit) as it used to be. same goes for the top expensive items aswell. after their price came down as it did in last months there is no big rush depositing big to get the devaluating piece of pie. yes, invest when it's cheap is a good old trick but the "candy" MA offers right now isn't shiny enough I suppose.

the bubble of MA is just as fragile as any other business out there. the only good part being that people always demanded bread and circus, since ages. food and fun is what people always will need. but if the virtual income in our real life bank accounts is diminishing, the coin into virtual life will get smaller.

ah, the engine of cries! yes, the only possible thing I see at the moment that might help MA to get masses online. even without 2x or x5 skillgain, which actually matters not - if all of us gain with the same rate, the ratio between us still remains same. in the long term it'll affect nothing, it might give MA a nice income in form of the "believers" who later on will understand how much most of them had to simply thow away with a little excuse of extra skills behind it... The engine will help in case we get many times more players actively using the ped they deposti, even if their average deposit is several times less than it is today for active base (was it somewhere between 100-200 ped per day, can't remember, someone made the calculations not so long ago according to MA's reports and current active players approximate number).

simply, cross your fingers and hope that it will survive this year at least...


J.

 

[Encicra]

A person blows a bubble - bubble's pop.

zing

 

[Cuga]

You speculated. You lost. I have 525 peds of gold I held since I thought it will go back to over 500%. Look at it now.

But I do have one remark. MA is killing price of skills by creating events that allow you to skill 2x faster. It is not in their interesst to allow people to be self sustainable by simply playing. They want fresh money in the game and this is why skill prices are falling (major reason in my opinion). In the early days a miner just had to break even and cash in when selling skills. Nowdays breaking even is not an option even if you sell your skills.

Bad MA, looking after their interesst only.

 

[Mikass]

You speculated. You lost. I have 525 peds of gold I held since I thought it will go back to over 500%. Look at it now.

But I do have one remark. MA is killing price of skills by creating events that allow you to skill 2x faster. It is not in their interesst to allow people to be self sustainable by simply playing. They want fresh money in the game and this is why skill prices are falling (major reason in my opinion). In the early days a miner just had to break even and cash in when selling skills. Nowdays breaking even is not an option even if you sell your skills.

Bad MA, looking after their interesst only.

Actions that result in inflation are taken in times of crisis to create benefits in the long term. Same thing is happening now. I don`t think MA wants to crash prices or anything like that. They only want to keep people interested and deposits up while not investing more resources of their own the in process, as their resources are already stretched to the limit for this cryengine release.

 

[roughrider]

except for all the items Some examples
S: full boar female TT+1800
S: A106, A105 - A106 - BO +2.5k - A105 - BO +600
SELLING full JAG - bidding starts @6k tt
Selling Full Boar M -current bid +4.2k through PM...bump
Selling both my good armors,
Ghoul +7.5k start bid +8.5k BO
Angel +27k start bid +28.5k BO Sold.
and so on (the prices are from 2007 u can check yourself in selling threads)

That is because no one expects MF to be useful anymore so no one really buys it, the current market is still very high towards what the skill really does but only because it is very hard to skill


Maybe because u bought the items speculating that the price increase will go on forever. A person that buys an item and uses it correctly is not really bothered about the price of the item as he bought it for use not for long term invest. So the only ones that are losing, are the ones that do not use the items.

The 2x and 3x skills are good for the players that want to skill up and bad for the ones that keep the skill market high by reselling



…. whatever

That is your opinion …

All I see from your points is that u actually are a trader who does not play the game. The sky is falling ? bubble burst ? the prices today are still huge compared to any other game so i still dont know what are u talking about. EU is not affordable to most of the gamers so maybe that is their target.


Grecu

Funny thing is i have never sold an item except in AU so i am deffinately NOT a trader. Tried to sell sweat once a long time ago but i dont have the patience.

 

[Jaas]

An situation is what you make it. Hell if you talk about recession in game, peope are gonna start to panic and then what was once a conversation now turns into reality. The power of Positive thinking folks! Haven't you ever heard that phrase?

There is no dip in skill prices, hell you can skill regardless of 2x or 3x skill gains. There is no limit for skills, it's not like you can cap out on handgun at 500k skills.

What you all nee dto do is to pump up the game instead of knockin git down. If you keep psuhing on a tree, eventually it will fall. But if you take care of it, nurture it, and support it, it will grow strong.

Hell that's common sense.

 

[Sircus]

An situation is what you make it. Hell if you talk about recession in game, peope are gonna start to panic and then what was once a conversation now turns into reality. The power of Positive thinking folks! Haven't you ever heard that phrase?

There is no dip in skill prices, hell you can skill regardless of 2x or 3x skill gains. There is no limit for skills, it's not like you can cap out on handgun at 500k skills.

What you all nee dto do is to pump up the game instead of knockin git down. If you keep psuhing on a tree, eventually it will fall. But if you take care of it, nurture it, and support it, it will grow strong.

Hell that's common sense.

I agree with the positive thinking part but the rest is BS imo.

Before I venture into skills I will start with items. Look at Ghost armor price. When I first bought it had a high tt+ value. I thought in my ignorance that the markup would stay araound the same. It didnt and the reason is cause there is an UNLIMITED SUPPLY of it. People continued to craft it untill they couldnt make profit of it any longer. The markup cant go any lower. We are seeing the same thing with 5B´s.

Now to direct it to skills, there is also an UNLIMITED SUPPLY of skills. We get more and more skills and as the playerbase increase it may raise the prices due to demand but in the end we got more skills then ever for sale. Ofc this will continue pushing prices down. Prices will drop untill its no longer worth chipping out.

Its all fine if you dont care about the peds you currently have in skills. If you do, you are probably loosing 100 ped or more a month at the current rate % is going down.

I rather say Im telling you now, then say i told you so after.

 

[Lugzan]

An situation is what you make it. Hell if you talk about recession in game, peope are gonna start to panic and then what was once a conversation now turns into reality. The power of Positive thinking folks! Haven't you ever heard that phrase?

There is no dip in skill prices, hell you can skill regardless of 2x or 3x skill gains. There is no limit for skills, it's not like you can cap out on handgun at 500k skills.

What you all nee dto do is to pump up the game instead of knockin git down. If you keep psuhing on a tree, eventually it will fall. But if you take care of it, nurture it, and support it, it will grow strong.

Hell that's common sense.

you mean, we have to accept all the nerfs that ruined most of the fun (from skillnerf and good old items replaced by oils and L which will not gather any value into avatar nerf up to L fap requirements aka heal/sec nerf) and say "all cool, we'll continue depositing as we used to"? nop, no fun means no depo, simple as that. yes, we can find positive excuses and inspire ourselves however long we want to but the reality of the common sense is - no money, no fun. and it's not about little money to expand the fun today. MA is the one to take care of the tree, we'd be pleased to enoy climbing it and also making the free marketing sun to shine on it automagically.


J.

 

[Jaas]

You can't look at it like that. I mean look at auction values of some items. We control the market value, not MA. MA puts a TT value on stuff, they don't control it's MU value, that's us. And if you have a clever marketing mind you can adjust the cost and markup of any item.

I mean I could start a thread saying I heard a rumor that they were gonna start using ME for a new skill in EU. And really put time an effort into getting people to believe it, and the price of Sweat, Nexus and ME would go up.

Look at merry mayhem. Apis rifles prices went up, but after the event they are starting to go back down again. Cost and MU flucutaion depend on the buyer and some creative marketing on the seller. Not MA.

They provide the seed. It's up to us to sew it and make it grow.

 

[Yaris]

Let it rock competition videos? Come on , what proof is that of anything. I haven`t even watched any of those on youtube and I`m a veteran player.

Exactly. The low view count shows how little interest OUTSIDE of Entropia there is. Imagine someone searches YouTube for 'Let it Rock' video - sees an Entropia contest entry - and thinks its cool. They email or show a friend. And if there is interest then the view count snowballs. That isn't happening. There are very few views probably coming from Entropia Forum readers only. No interest (or very little) coming from outside.

Oh, I think there`s pretty good evidence. One of them would be Creative Kingdom company itself that has big marketing power. They have been involved in major projects around the world, have a game studio, record label etc.

Just because Sony Music has a huge advertising budget doesn't mean each of their recording artists will sell a million records. Aside from the initial hype, its the product that sells. A niche band will only sell a few thousand albums. A niche game will only have a few thousand players.

Regarding the 100usd for a gun issue. You`re probably not aware that in other MMOs players are spending lots of RL money also for virtual goods, just that system doesn`t allow them to sell their items for real cash and they user paypal transactions, western union and stuff like that on their own risk, but lots of them are doing it and some virtual property or items are selling for a alot also. Seems there are lots of people prepared to pay money for virtual stuff, as more and more people spend more and more time in virtual worlds, VR items might soon begin to take over priority over RL items.

Oh, I am aware. I have played a EQ2 before on their exchange server that allows RMT (the buying of selling of characters and coin) legally and they facilitate each transaction. I have made hundreds of dollars by not only selling characters, items and coin but by reselling items as well.

But there is a difference. The amount of people buying and selling items in those games is small (by comparison) to the overall player base. Aside from that, in EQ2 (and similar MMOs) you CAN succeed and be ELITE without depositing. In fact, the only factor in determining your success is time. If you play, eventually you will be max level with the best gear.

Not true in Entropia. And that is a significant difference and big factor in making EU a niche product.

As an aside, I wish MA would stop showing the number of 'registered' accounts. What a joke. How about advertising the number of accounts logged in the past 30 days.

There already are players in Entropia that spent on VR clothes more than on their RL clothes or own more in virtual items and property then in RL. Other big companies like Sony noticed this great potential for virtual goods as they started Sony Exchange center where players can officially sell virtual goods for RL money. Lots of the most popular MMOs, if you check Xfire top 10 are free MMOs that base their revenue on people that buy virtual items to stand out or be proficient.

As I said above I played on one of the EQ2 exchange servers. Right now, the server is basically dead. Second Life has diminished as the wave of hype has passed. Even Sony's new venture 'Home' is less than anticipated.

I want to be clear, I'm not saying that MA, FP, and others will not be successful. I'm saying that what is offered here is not what the vast majority of gamers want. As such, any growth they experience will be slow and incremental (aside from significant events like CND.)

Don't expect to see any giant growth just because a new planet opens up.

 

[Igorl]

You can't look at it like that. I mean look at auction values of some items. We control the market value, not MA. MA puts a TT value on stuff, they don't control it's MU value, that's us. And if you have a clever marketing mind you can adjust the cost and markup of any item.

Bold: You really believe that? You are 100% wrong... trust me.

Underline: you mean talk bullshit and flame when someone laught at you?

I.

 

[Jaas]

Yes I honestly believe that. I believe we have more power in this game then we think, especially when it comes to our REAL money. It only takes one good idea....

 

[Dagata]

Bold: You really believe that? You are 100% wrong... trust me.

Underline: you mean talk bullshit and flame when someone laught at you?

I.

MA controls the price to an extent, they have an idea of how valuable an item is so they give it a certain rarity, but ultimately we control the prices, MA may have intended the price at a certain level but we set a higher price, or maybe lower. Lately whats happended is MA intended a price lower than what we have been paying, and we are starting to realise it and are adjusting.

 

[SpikeBlack]

MA have complete control over the cost of items, they control the number of blueprints, the odds of finding the components via hunting or mining and finally they control the odds of a successful crafting. So personally they do control the MU, if they started dropping the rare uber items more often the MU would start falling quickly.

The more available an item is the lower the MU. Which is why most items in loot have markups of only 1-4% and sweat seems to be on a neverending spiral downwards.

 

[TheMZ]

A warning to us all was the not-so-immediate drop of sweat prices, as-well as crude-oil prices (dragging Mind-Essence down as-well - the cycle goes on). Funny thing, the economy began falling down as-soon as Mindark implemented these pathetic taxes, L items and other restrictions.

Cough, lift taxes, cough.

 

[Deleted member 23278]

We are in a so called recession.. i just hope that MindArks tactics whatever the intention will keep E.U. alive and they are not just panicing b4 possible closure of the game.

It would be a sad loss if it went down the pan...MA if you read this..get cry engine done now..and worry about the bugs later, it seems that some people are losing confidence, i hope i'm wrong.

 

[Igorl]

MA controls the price to an extent, they have an idea of how valuable an item is so they give it a certain rarity, but ultimately we control the prices, MA may have intended the price at a certain level but we set a higher price, or maybe lower. Lately whats happended is MA intended a price lower than what we have been paying, and we are starting to realise it and are adjusting.

Its other way around - MA gives an item certain rarity which gives US an idea how valuable it is. If company policy changes (ex due to new market situation*) and they decide to stop having items priced @50k$ - they can change its price in several mouseclicks and lines of code in their API. You get an update screen after which nothing can seem as it used to be.

I.

* new market situation:
- competition (another similar game) with enough players and high end gear being more accessible
- not enough decay produced (5 player - 5 uber guns is less decay then 50 players - 50 uber guns)
- social testing
- highening up weapon damage average due to impossible PvP at current game setup (2 ubers 300+ HP, plated eon, MOD/IMP FAP practically cannot kill eachother).
- management change
- takeover
- adopting to playerbase age
- giving free ctrl to resold API with new planets
- countless more reasons to take action

 

[aridash]

Bold: You really believe that? You are 100% wrong... trust me.

evidence please.

of course what you mean is MA may guide the direction of MU, though even there it is largely out of their control. to be "100% wrong" implies direct manipulation of prices, and there is no evidence of this.