Suggestion: Loot 3.0 ideas

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Ferial

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power i agree but 40% is absurd low if his run was not 10 drops of L13 probe
i have never ever experiecnes something under 85% even in my nightmare day
Well, then you are in for a treat, when it happens :D
shoggoth.png


While not 40%, it´s still very low for the amount of kills of sub 1 ped mobs. (I´m usually not one to stop shooting at bad times. Very bad returns and boring hunting however makes it hard to stay motivated)

It happens, occasionally, not very common on 750+ kills, but it happens.

100 ped, 40% over 30 mins sounds like hunting too big for setup. Small multipliers are common enough that if you don´t hit one in 30 mins, you´re probably hunting way too big for your setup. IMO
 
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Entertainment is lost now..
After a 2 week break due to ongoing miserable experience, I login for a short hunt..
No multi at all.. 40% tt return.. 6 USD for 30 mins..
Ive had that kind of returns in the past but usually on mobs I know have high volatility like Atrox. But yea 40% is kinda too low. even on my worse Atrox hunts ive had lowest at 60%.
 

ImUp2Mischief

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Mob was trask and few prancer and bugs just west of fort victoria..
Done this exact 100 ped hunt dozens times before.. 70-80% bad return.
I know too few kills but never managed 40% before..
I took 2 week break as I have had many 50-70% returns on small mobs in recent weeks.

Level 31 looter
60 ish efficiency
65 ish dps

NOT doing completely stupid things and well below my level..
Just complete lack of multipliers..
Also last 100k cycle @95% return and falling... not repaying hof or such
 
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Msturlese

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well i hunt always in victoria "mix" i use oils to craft (muscle, thyroid, eye) for simple 1 conductor, springs and plastic ruds
crafting the drop enhanced my returns. i suppose it is just a bad day if you got a 95 average... happens on short runs.
GL next time
 

Arm

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Mischief if those are real numbers that is extremely interesting. if you say 30 minutes 40% ret 6 usd loss means that you shot 100 ped and lost 60
100 ped are 1.000.000 cells are around 600 cell per second.
a small weapon so i suppose you killed small monsters. 40% return is statistically absurd, really

not a joke, it is finally something we can replicate as an experiment. pls name the monster, looter skill and weapon eff and i will kill those to see the returns and i invite some mroe ppl to do the same test

I like the idea of testing but, situations which the others mentioned aside, what IF even the game discriminates between players (directly/indirectly)?
 

Arm

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Can anybody shed some light on any changes to Crafting and Mining return formulae, parallel or after Loot 2.0?
 

nutter

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Investments can go up as well as down.

Especially when you play far above your skills and expect the game to compensate you for your stupidity.
 

nutter

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Says a computer science expert and a gamer since childhood (over 30 years) who has legal experience and who has paid 20k USD to this game and ...

It seems that you do not know anything about anti-trust law, corporate social responsibility and all the regulator and umbrella-law which do not allow a company enforce whatever they like (it is a society with fundamental laws, which intends to make businesses act reasonably)

And for your information, I have had legally-oriented computer science projects which were relevant to what I say. In that case, it was regarding Microsoft terms and conditions people had accepted but could not be enforced by Microsoft.
Can you please quote the case law, precidents, common law and statutes under which you think Ma has conned you?
 

Alukat123

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you are losing up to 5% of your loot TT value too.

pretty sure most people would be happy if it were only those 5% instead of the 10-25% they're encountering.
Maybe you realize the difference between 10-25% and 5%, maybe you don't...
 

nutter

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pretty sure most people would be happy if it were only those 5% instead of the 10-25% they're encountering.
Maybe you realize the difference between 10-25% and 5%, maybe you don't...
Which lands are taxed at 25%?

My statement was about the loss of your loot in tax hunting on taxed lands. 5% that is completely wasted BEFORE Ma get their claws into your returns, and which is additionally difficult to make back in MU.

You are IMMEDIATELY losing a percentage of your returns by hunting on taxed land on mobs too big for your skills, with guns too big for your skills, and chasing globals. In ADDITION to the losses you will encounter by hunting out of your skill range, as I have previously described...

Maybe you realise the difference between what I wrote and what you read...maybe you dont.


By ignoring this, and MU on amps, and high roller mobs, and looting low MU items, its very easy to burn through peds for little return.
 
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Msturlese

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Nutter you are overlapping 2 different parameters


1. LA takes a slice of maximum 5%
[EDITED AFTER CHECKING PAST POSTS: THE % OF LA OWNER is defined as "part of the loot"
so it is a consensus to be intended part of the TT Value of the loot and not of the MU as i
iwrongly understood previously ] ON THE MARKUP OF THE ITEMS based on the auction prices
2. MA takes 1.5 to 4% on the TT returns.


ok, for someone that is 20% but i live in a "special privileged environment" that is for sentient beings
 
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nutter

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Nutter you are overlapping 2 different parameters


1. LA takes a slice of maximum 5% ON THE MARKUP OF THE ITEMS based on the auction prices
2. MA takes 1.5 to 4% on teh TT returns.

ok, for someone that is 20% but i live in a "special provileged environment" that is for sentient beings
The land tax is a percentage of loot returns. NOTHING is to do with MU, as this is a player to player value. Everything to do with tax, returns etc is via TT value.

for example, the system allocates you an item with a TT value (before tax) of 100 ped. Except on looting, due to tax, you loot it with a value of 95 ped instead. the 5% that is deducted goes to the land owner.
The MU could be 200%, but this is not used by the tax system. It cannot be done via MU values as this would be open to market manipulation on a massive scale by land owners. As well as requiring a huge amount of server time to keep checking the auction for MU values of items / skins / components / oils / etc etc etc looted every few seconds...

MA takes NONE of the TT returns. In fact MA have stated exactly where their income comes from --> HERE
MA have been clear on where they get their cash from, and its not from land tax.

Can you please quote your sources if that is what you think?
 
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miathan

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The land tax is a percentage of loot returns. NOTHING is to do with MU, as this is a player to player value. Everything to do with tax, returns etc is via TT value.

for example, the system allocates you an item with a TT value (before tax) of 100 ped. Except on looting, due to tax, you loot it with a value of 95 ped instead. the 5% that is deducted goes to the land owner.
The MU could be 200%, but this is not used by the tax system. It cannot be done via MU values as this would be open to market manipulation on a massive scale by land owners. As well as requiring a huge amount of server time to keep checking the auction for MU values of items / skins / components / oils / etc etc etc looted every few seconds...

MA takes NONE of the TT returns.
MA have been clear on where they get their cash from, and its not from land tax.

Can you please quote your sources if that is what you think?
Too logical to be a post on PCF. Needs more crazy theories. :laugh:
 

Msturlese

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if it works that way i will never enter a LA anymore.
it is already hard to keep the boat afloat without more weight on it
 

miathan

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Regarding taxes on LAs
Charlie|MindArk said:
Land areas simply take a cut based on the set tax amount from each loot from creatures spawned in the area or mining claims found in the area.

Doesn't explicitly say it's tax on TT but anything else would be strange and overly complicated.
 
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Not sure how anybody would think it has anything to do with markup. Can’t say I haven’t heard sillier things theorised.
 

Ferial

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if it works that way i will never enter a LA anymore.
it is already hard to keep the boat afloat without more weight on it

One of the main advantages to hunting in LAs is reduced competition. For LAs with unique mobs (with a decent lootpool) this means higher avg. MU. This higher avg MU can outweigh the tax in some circumstances. This however is not the only benefit to reduced competition.

Other reasons for hunting in taxed LAs could for instance be better spawn which provides means for higher turnover. This can also outweigh the tax cost.
 

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this has to be the worst thread running on PCF right now.


look you can mine unamped and/or with L gear and turn out a profit every single month i don't understand what people are complaining about. MA has told you what your TT will be over time fro the majority of players...

stop TT'ing your loot and stop paying insane markups to play the game. be better.


christ... if i can shoot with an unmaxed MM and make a profit on migration (after markup) then you have to be some other kind of stupid to lose money in this game.
 

Alukat123

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look you can mine unamped and/or with L gear and turn out a profit every single month i don't understand what people are complaining about.

80-90% TT-return with 110% MU is how much at the end of the month?
little hint, it isn't profit.
So pls stop acting like it would be entirely the players fault, the player doesn't determine whether or not he gets hofs & globals for good tt-returns (94%+).
 
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Evey

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christ... if i can shoot with an unmaxed MM and make a profit on migration (after markup) then you have to be some other kind of stupid to lose money in this game.
Doing the same mistake over and over and expecting different and better results is his specialty.
 

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this has to be the worst thread running on PCF right now.


look you can mine unamped and/or with L gear and turn out a profit every single month i don't understand what people are complaining about. MA has told you what your TT will be over time fro the majority of players...

stop TT'ing your loot and stop paying insane markups to play the game. be better.


christ... if i can shoot with an unmaxed MM and make a profit on migration (after markup) then you have to be some other kind of stupid to lose money in this game.
At which level did you start shooting with the MM?
 

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At which level did you start shooting with the MM?
84/100 hit and 82/100 dmg... currently 96/100 hit and 94/100 dmg... killstrike coming soonTM

i also shoot with constant 6% crit chance and 15% crit dmg to offset the dpp loss... but i still lose 0.3-0.4% TT return due to being unmaxed. less of a loss than using L gear or using a lower eff/dps setup. damage matters, but bankroll and turnover consistency matter more.
 

Arm

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this has to be the worst thread running on PCF right now.


look you can mine unamped and/or with L gear and turn out a profit every single month i don't understand what people are complaining about. MA has told you what your TT will be over time fro the majority of players...

stop TT'ing your loot and stop paying insane markups to play the game. be better.


christ... if i can shoot with an unmaxed MM and make a profit on migration (after markup) then you have to be some other kind of stupid to lose money in this game.
Migration alone is not important.
How much have you paid in and how much is your net worth?
Do you enjoy the game or is it tedious eco rituals?
Have you paid for playing or bought CLD and played with its income?
Does the game behave equally for people?
...
 

Arm

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The most you can obtain in a court is probably "deceptive advertising" due to the wording "invest in your avatar" where investing is expected as "put some money, find more money at a later date".
MA in that way let you understand "just put some dollar, do stuff and you will find more dollar later"
if you do the right, boring, repetitive thing on small critters you gain skills (yes skills have a value, that is why we have a skill calculator) and that is the "VALUE of the avatar" and you have survived money as ped card and storage balance.

MU is clearly stated in ANY message that is not part of the loot.
MU is what makes this game bad, because tha game return less loot than cost to kill, so we need to "get the missing part off other players".
EU is a trading simulator deceived as hunting / mining / Crafting
activities are to spend time, the only way to make ped over decay cost is to TAKE THEM OFF OTHER PLAYERS
and this si the main reason because no one likes to share anything.... because you PAY for everything and LOOSE in any action and you must EXPLOIT other players to make a profit and grow without hoarding your Visa card.

Marketing says "invest"... reality is "compete for every PED with other players and with decay"... ENTROPIA... read wikipedia.. it is clear :)

If you have lost 20k that is 200.000 PED in one year... you did not only something wrong, you did something reckless and meaningless
and you did it because you read "INVEST"? when i firstt month saw that my ped card lost 200 EUR and not 20.000 i started to read and understand better the mechanics and acted accordingly...

yes i need to put more money to grow but if i dont care grow but just float i dont need to put money but... need more hours reading than shooting
so... i agree, there is a bad marketing proposition

but man, do you really think that if you use "XYZ" aftershave 10 top model will pray you to sleep with them?
do you think that a "xxxxret" salted steak is worth 270 dollar?
do you think that a "zzz" suit will let you find a 1m USD per year job?

if so... you are the problem, not the MA advertising.... and also the WORD deposit recall us of putting money in a bank and we can have it back.... deposit means "BUY SOME VIRTUAL CURRENCY" in MA website..... you lost 20k? probably you will loose another 50 in lawyer cost with no results. take the loss, learn the lesson, play a game that drops more than kill cost, and give items to new guildmates as a gift.... there items cost nothing...

EU is the ultimate challenge, you enter calypso knowing you will loose ped, i shot 800 ped per hour, i will LOOSE 24 OR MORE ped per hour and need to take them off other people.. or off my visa card.
if i craft EP4 the turnover is 2*15*60 = 1800 DOLLAR per hour, expected loss is 50 dollars per hour... or 500 ped... if a Run does not drop items with markup... that is the cost to see the stupid craft wheel running....

if MA wrote the above in website would you play? and you read it in forums in all the possible wording... as i did

reality sometime is hard, negation is even harder.

read my post on australia and loot boxes...
"MU is clearly stated in ANY message that is not part of the loot."
Why should it take new players a few years to find this out? This should be mentioned every time you open auctions somewhere on the panel not just in some posts in forum and corners.

I paid 20k USD in about 6 years (not one year). I did not know MU is lost, I did amped mining, hunting with perseus armor, and unlimited unmaxed weapons etc. and I was in profit in about the first 2.5 years !!! (game deception such that you pay more? very rare chance? game mechanics changed regarding mining?)

Then it made my net worth 1/10 gradually skills included (while I was relatively in similar relaxed playing style but of course with more eco considerations as I knew MU was lost) !! Paid and played and cycled and did thousands of kills and mining drops but it did not make up the loss even remotely.

We have misinformation for sure in MA business as you mentioned too.
Deception may also be the case.
 
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Arm

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Doing the same mistake over and over and expecting different and better results is his specialty.
Maybe what you mean by mistake is "playing the game" !
 

Arm

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Anybody knows how the mining mechanics have changed in the last 5 years?
 

Arm

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Any suggestions on how the Hunting/Mining/Crafting return and surrounding mechanics can be improved?
 

Alukat123

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Any suggestions on how the Hunting/Mining/Crafting return and surrounding mechanics can be improved?

up the min tt-return per kill/craft...

instead of the current mostly 25% & 50% TT-return near successes go back to mostly 90% TT-return near successes....
 

Arm

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What is your opinion regarding:

1. Those who consume more MU should get considerably more chance of wining MU. It should not be just skills and mob/place/time choice.

2. Those who lose hundreds of dollars in playing should be given unlimited non-tradable items in loot to at least partially fulfil the "invest" promise and keep the game clients happy. If I lose 100k peds in mining, why shouldn't I get L7/L8 unlimited mining amp (non-tradable)? Or other more lenient items (Equus, Castle, LA, ...)? Investors should be rewarded not punished.

3. Regarding the above, if MA gives such a 100k worth non-tradable item (for example), how much does it cost MA in the ecosystem? 1/10? 1/100? 1/1000? (in the long run more can be gained in return by MA due to happy investors and new clients)
 
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