Making a Partner Planet team

[SparkyJordan]

Yeah me, activate me please

I pushed the button, you're in! Thanks for joining Turnsleft. We look forward to your input! Maybe you can take a moment to put a post about yourself in the meet and greet forum. Thanks!

 

[Skaffen]

Imagine Nation

As John Lennon sang -

" Imagine all the people...." - I know it seems contrite of me to bring an iconic piece of music here to this discussion but in a lot of ways the essence does apply.

Everyone has something to offer, even if it is not apparent at these early stages. The Profession/Skill progression we hope to act as the 'spine' of the game is flexible to accomodate any RL Profession & Speciality so if your able to define specific traits/abilities to your work then we need to hear from you.

 

[Skaffen]

Buffty Boy

-"Ah, Beer... no, I will behave. ,-) I see a future system in food and drinks, probably as a buff/booster system rather than a boring necessity system. We have to wait and see."-

The above quote is from Marco. I find it an intriguing indication with regard to how Calypso is to evolve.

Will a 'Chef' profession be introduced?

New Avatar Attributes will have to be 'injected' into the current system to accomodate these buffs. How will this effect current item usage/balance?

'Intelligence borrows, genius steals'...let's see who can steal the most

 

[Shadowmage]

Foods and drinks will go hand in hand with stamina.

 

[Skaffen]

Pro Teen Drinks

Foods and drinks will go hand in hand with stamina.

Is that what its for? I suppose it will help improve Health Regen . That's an intelligent application...been in the making from the start I believe, taken a while to come through though and Marco still isn't making any promises.

You should see what the Player Project has in the pipeline! Marco can have the Entertainer Buff idea I borrowed if he likes - We have plenty more to come and if you don't let the cat out the bag we may even give you a peek of the 'stolen goods'.

 

[Leandro Kun]

Interesting concept. A planet built for players by the players.

Its the money factor for me though, you guys reckon you could raise the cash needed? Im not really a money man so not sure what the chance is for gaining investment on a project like this. I suppose we could all put in our own cash, but there be a hell of a lot of shareholders.

I know in the UK a site was put together where you invested £20, for a chance to be a shareholder in a football team. They now own a non-league team and get to vote on issues relating to the club. I suppose something similar could be done with this and the EU player base, but it would have to be carefully controlled and could prove to be unworkable.

Oh and BSC in Computing here working in IT

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

I can help out in the design of mobs, last time i checked i had decent drawing skills. I can also write a few stories to deepen the athmosphere ... and events .

But, i'm a terrible programmer.... Not much a biochemist/microbiologist can do really.. .Unless you want to implement diseases on this new planet?? And have hospitals that can work, unlike the one in hadesheim?
Hmm.. creepling diseases contracted by an infected mob that would loot poisenous L weapons but at the expense of a few of your stats.. that would be recovered as soon as a medic avatar would unlock the skill to use the tool to cure it.
Ok, i'm going off topic now...

 

[Skaffen]

1 4 All, All 4 1

Leandro Kun: The financial consideration of $2m is largely the developer cost spread over 2 years - this will be met via community input. Other costs such as hardware & software req's will require a share issue, however once we have the SDK I anticipate the community support to number 100 - 200 participants. At this point I expect an average contribution of $2000 towards the share issue will cover any running costs - this can be staged over the 2 yr 'development period'. Share issue will of course be prioritised to those offering support during the proposal period.

Naifas: The 'Skill Tree' concept is to invoke as many RL Skills, Attributes & Abilities as possible to create an open ended IG Prof progression. Initially it will be derived from the most basic game premise and expanded as the Playerbase grows. - I expect 'Combat Medic' may be a bit of a grind to achieve, however those DOT's (Damage Over Time) are always in demand for difficult group scenarios ...contributions in graphics and storyline are also very welcome

More info can be found via the Player Planet Group here on EF.

 

[The-Onciest]

Leandro Kun: The financial consideration of $2m is largely the developer cost spread over 2 years - this will be met via community input. Other costs such as hardware & software req's will require a share issue, however once we have the SDK I anticipate the community support to number 100 - 200 participants. At this point I expect an average contribution of $2000 towards the share issue will cover any running costs - this can be staged over the 2 yr 'development period'. Share issue will of course be prioritised to those offering support during the proposal period.

Naifas: The 'Skill Tree' concept is to invoke as many RL Skills, Attributes & Abilities as possible to create an open ended IG Prof progression. Initially it will be derived from the most basic game premise and expanded as the Playerbase grows. - I expect 'Combat Medic' may be a bit of a grind to achieve, however those DOT's (Damage Over Time) are always in demand for difficult group scenarios ...contributions in graphics and storyline are also very welcome

More info can be found via the Player Planet Group here on EF.

So pretty much individually we need to raise $2000 and pool it all together over the course of 2 years? By the second year mark we need to have like a lot of money saved up in the bank. Which is pretty expensive, at least 40 dollars a month. Right? It isn't that expensive if we were all serious about it. 40 dollars per month is definitely enough.

 

[Skaffen]

So pretty much individually we need to raise $2000 and pool it all together over the course of 2 years? By the second year mark we need to have like a lot of money saved up in the bank. Which is pretty expensive, at least 40 dollars a month. Right? It isn't that expensive if we were all serious about it. 40 dollars per month is definitely enough.

It's more like the equivalent of $84/month/ea over 2 years if we generate 100 investors ($200k). This is alongside a personal commitment to offer the development requirements for free. Both go hand in hand, with personal commitment unlocking the ability to secure a financial investment following a successful proposal which secures the SDK.

As the proposal stage nears completion we will redress our options in light of the contributions made at that point. If we have 50 contributors during the 'proposal stage' we will discuss the level of financial commitment that each individual can make and if the relevant skill set and funding can be arranged we will 'close the doors'. If we require a professional skillset which we cannot source within the community we will consider the financial impact and offset the share issue accordingly. By balancing financial commitment and personal involvement the 'capital' can be realised to everyones satisfaction.

 

[Frigid]

A planet by players, for players...I'm all for it, though I can't add much to the effort other than a wink

 

[Leandro Kun]

Okay so your looking at $2k from 200 players. I would have thought that would be doable.

So its more a case of getting shareholders in who are willing to invest rather than having shareholders that can contribute to the project? If you just ask for investment its will probably be easier to raise the cash.

I suppose the hard thing will be how much power each shareholder has. Will they get to have there say on the direction of the project or just be silent investors? Im thinking about guys who just want to invest and not get involved with the actual dev.

 

[Skaffen]

Dolly Mixture

Okay so your looking at $2k from 200 players. I would have thought that would be doable.

So its more a case of getting shareholders in who are willing to invest rather than having shareholders that can contribute to the project? If you just ask for investment its will probably be easier to raise the cash.

I suppose the hard thing will be how much power each shareholder has. Will they get to have there say on the direction of the project or just be silent investors? Im thinking about guys who just want to invest and not get involved with the actual dev.

We are looking for $2m 'capital' = $200k + sufficient community resources (development) or $500k + community resources or any possible combination.

The initial hurdle is to secure the SDK - those contributing to this will dictate how the financial commitment is to be met. It may be that during this 'proposal stage' we can secure enough skillsets + finances that we will begin developing the SDK.

I am aware that this Project will become a sound proposition to those looking to invest financially when we have the SDK, anyone waiting for an easy return when this point is met will not be guaranteed an opportunity. We are looking to create an immersive MMO with the added edge of an RCE from the ground up - we have taken a few steps to the next floor, if you are hoping to use a lift to meet us on the 1st floor we may be well on our way to the 2nd.

The Project will be managed in distinct stages to protect individual efforts (of which there is already some of considerable initiative). I appreciate money makes the world go round, but in a virtual setting intelligence, foresight, commitment & imagination and are as much legitimate currency as the $.

 

[CycoKick]

First off all its not to smart to post all your bright ideas on the internet.

Everyone can run off with the,

First set up a small forum, or sub and get to talk to people who then get a invite to join or not. Even if they wont be part of the real team and just do it for fun.,

But spilling your beans here to MindArk, And whatever person that has a account here and takes a look is a shame..

Besides that, I got loads of ideas

 

[SparkyJordan]

Um, in case you didn't notice, we DID create a private forum where only registered and activated users can see what we're discussing. And if you think the stuff mentioned here are the bright ideas, guess again.

 

[Flaushat]

i see that as the discussion moves further, problems are arised and many solved.
but I have to raise a new one. myself,working closely with platform development tools and users scattered in a few countries, i came face to face with the next question: how can you protect the SDK from leaking outside the team? because, even if MA's SDK has a centralised core and probably a team development environment (like Adobe Creative suite for example), some of the apps will still have to be ran localy. how can you ensure the terrain editor let's say won't someday be available via torrents or something else? with the players scattered all over the world, it's quite a challange.
the only possible solution i was able to find (not entirely safe btw), is working by remote connection to a central server where all the tools are available. nonetheless, there a multiple factors that will slow down efficiency if this way is followed (eg: lost connection, people have to switch between the remote desktop window in fullscreen and personal computer, etc).

so imho, some sort of completly legal company ,to which all of the contributors must adhere as employees or third party providers with all the regulations and non disclosure papers in order, must be established before MA will give away this piece of software.
or, like a famous website which sells trainers for games, code an unique ID in every build they give to the partners (for which you'll have to sign ND papers ofc) in order to track down the person/company that leaked.

 

[Skaffen]

Top Hat

so imho, some sort of completly legal company ,to which all of the contributors must adhere as employees or third party providers with all the regulations and non disclosure papers in order, must be established before MA will give away this piece of software.
or, like a famous website which sells trainers for games, code an unique ID in every build they give to the partners (for which you'll have to sign ND papers ofc) in order to track down the person/company that leaked.

Good point. The proposal will be submitted for MA approval, and as you suggest they require a legal entity to release the SDK, we will set up such a facility. The SDK will be pending the formation of such an entity, however we are not restricted by the initial share issue as it will merely be a formality to incorporation (ie £1 share per member). The 2nd share issue will be arranged to cover running costs.

I do not foresee an issue which requires remote access as the NDA will be in effect by then.

 

[SparkyJordan]

This is definitely a valid concern, and I have no doubts that MA would not release their SDK to a ragtag bunch of techies with a dream. Plans are underway to formalize our team into a company.

I've been thinking about the server/workspace issues as well. I do like the idea of a centralized server that everyone connects to, but as you said there are drawbacks to that too. It's just something we'll need to figure out when the time comes.

Thanks for your input Flaushat!

 

[Skaffen]

Swag Bag

First off all its not to smart to post all your bright ideas on the internet.

Everyone can run off with the,

First set up a small forum, or sub and get to talk to people who then get a invite to join or not. Even if they wont be part of the real team and just do it for fun.,

But spilling your beans here to MindArk, And whatever person that has a account here and takes a look is a shame..

Besides that, I got loads of ideas

I may be spilling my guts before MA soon enough...a few beans is no concern. The independent forum is in place for those invited to take a look - anyone trying to steal anything will have to be smarter than us all put together. Time will come to produce a formal proposal and even then I doubt anything so complex can be easily stolen - besides whats going to stop someone stealing it when it is launched? The contributors are the assets at this stage.

 

[Turnsleft]

This is definitely a valid concern, and I have no doubts that MA would not release their SDK to a ragtag bunch of techies with a dream. Plans are underway to formalize our team into a company.

I've been thinking about the server/workspace issues as well. I do like the idea of a centralized server that everyone connects to, but as you said there are drawbacks to that too. It's just something we'll need to figure out when the time comes.

Thanks for your input Flaushat!

VPN is the way forward and the benefit of having developers in all timezones is the 24 hours of continuous productivity

 

[Flaushat]

i cut short my last post a few minutes ago as i had to attend to a meeting, and i didn't have time to issue some more problems
so here it is(in no particular order ):
1.
even if a legal entity is formed, the contributors are still human. what i mean is this: not every contributor is an IT proffesional. some of them might be university students, some of them still living with the parents, etc. so the SDK security comes into place again. having a personal computer at home where you will spend your time developing is no guarantee it is safe. maybe you have a brother, or room mate or something that has access to the computer, and it might just leak the SDK. even if it's not the forementioned case, not everybody is a security pro as to guarantee for the integrity of the computer. hack may happen, viruses may happen, etc. every participant has a different security solution (antivir,firewall, both or one of them in place or missing), different protection software. it would be a logistic nightmare to guarantee the safety of the SDK, even with the ND papers signed. it would be even more of a nightmare to align all the contributors to a specific security standard commonly agreed. because the other alternative is to have a facility, with a fortified infrastructure (as a real company) where all will come to develop, which i don't think it will happen. and if a facility like that is built, but the users won't be able to attend in person, we come back to the centralised concept with remote connections and the known drawbacks.
2.
I see everybody has ideas, and a lot of talented people seem to join the ride, but before you even have a glimpse at the SDK , you must have 2 determined and experienced persons amonst you: a game designer and a project manager/team leader. without at least one of them, you will soon find out that a lot of good ideas means nothing unless properly conceptualised,presented/developed and implemented. unfortunately, we're not talking about "space invaders" or "VGA planets" games here, games that can be written and developed by garage techies alone. a project manager (with experience, i mean, a professional one, who has worked or works in this line of field) is a must have.hell, he doesn't have to know nothing of C++ coding, or photoshop or Maya or any of the tools of trade. he just has to be able to vision the problems and solve them (ok, ok, i'm a project manager myself and webservices programmer, but i don't say all these things to propose myself for the job or anything, i just try to put my 2 cents in an area no one discussed until now in this thread[dunno about the other forum though, didn't register yet] ). bottom line is that every contributor has a personal and professional life besides this project toward which it has some responsabilities. so in order for the project to take shape, a person must draw deadlines, keep in touch with other service providers, make sure everyone does his part in the agreed timeframe,etc. I know a lot of enthusiasm is spilled in this project, but for a project to come to life and evolve instead of tumbling down and becoming just another "it could've been nice" dream, it takes a few men that can look into the future and be pragmatic. i know some of you are like this, hope you don't get carried by the wave.
PS: hope you don't mind me giving an opinion here and there in the future, even if i'm not probably gonna be directly involved

 

[Turnsleft]

20 years developing interactive and visual simulations to train pilots and armed services of all types in submersed role play etc. Fear not we have some experience

 

[SparkyJordan]

Those are definitely valid concerns, and we appreciate you posting them Flaushat. Rest assured we are not a crew of first-year college students living with our parents, well at least most of us aren't.

I've spent the last 12 years involved with the ins and outs of web development. Systems administration, coding, design, documentation, even a bit of project management. Coming into this group, my primary concern is to keep everything on track and organized.

As for leaking of the SDK, I don't expect everyone to have a copy on their local machine. I expect it to be installed on a centralized server where developers will connect via secure VPN. This way, all developed work will also be on the central network, where it will be backed up. We won't know the specifics until we get more technical information from MA.

 

[malasuerte]

hi.

I am broke right now and have no special skills to aid in the projec. But if at some point you need a beta tester or someone that can accurately translate english into spanish (not the crappy software translations), send me a PM and I will be happy to help.


I wish you all the luck in the world to your project.

P.S.
BTW have anyone talked to the group of PE players that created that russian RCE game that we can´t name here? They might have some good advice to offer.

 

[aridash]

The financial consideration of $2m is largely the developer cost spread over 2 years - this will be met via community input. Other costs such as hardware & software req's will require a share issue, however once we have the SDK I anticipate the community support to number 100 - 200 participants. At this point I expect an average contribution of $2000 towards the share issue will cover any running costs

i see a problem of focus emerging at this point. the financial consideration should not be for "developer costs" it is for a fully planned business. finding a group of developers working for free will not be sufficient. what is needed to get to the point where MA consider the proposition seriously is:
1. A workable and innovative idea/concept to develop.
2. A properly worked business plan. this will require a business minded person, not a developer.
3. A marketing strategy. this will require a marketing minded person, not a developer.
4. A programe director oversee and coordinate the effort. this will require a person with strong project managment skills, not a developer.
5. A company to wrap it all up in.

i make the point about non-developers because the company must exist and needs these people/postions (it could be just one or two people sharing the required skill sets) before approaching MA. These are people less easy to find around interested in doing a little side work unpaid than the average developer who plays with stuff for giggles. some capital is needed first, not second, with a risk the plan will be unsuccessfull.

 

[CycoKick]

Um, in case you didn't notice, we DID create a private forum where only registered and activated users can see what we're discussing. And if you think the stuff mentioned here are the bright ideas, guess again.

Ah well, my bad, didnt read the entire thread

Thought it reply and read it sometime this week.

 

[CycoKick]

i see a problem of focus emerging at this point. the financial consideration should not be for "developer costs" it is for a fully planned business. finding a group of developers working for free will not be sufficient. what is needed to get to the point where MA consider the proposition seriously is:
1. A workable and innovative idea/concept to develop.
2. A properly worked business plan. this will require a business minded person, not a developer.
3. A marketing strategy. this will require a marketing minded person, not a developer.
4. A programe director oversee and coordinate the effort. this will require a person with strong project managment skills, not a developer.
5. A company to wrap it all up in.

i make the point about non-developers because the company must exist and needs these people/postions (it could be just one or two people sharing the required skill sets) before approaching MA. These are people less easy to find around interested in doing a little side work unpaid than the average developer who plays with stuff for giggles. some capital is needed first, not second, with a risk the plan will be unsuccessfull.

1. I think that might be the easiest part in the case.
2. If you are going to work like this, and most definately in the IT sector its important have a certain knowledge of both or enough backing by someone who is a developer and can follow the mindset in which the business model will be set up.
Other wise you will have to rely on alot of information which you can value yourself..
Trust me, I worked some time in india starting up a business in a field I knew not much off and that is darn hard and leaves u to rely on to many people.
3.agree
4.agree
5. A company to wrap it up, What sort of company, Where will this company be based?. If you work with a wwteam that might be very important just because of tax issues.

 

[Doer]

I got a BCS a few years back and have done a bit of hobby programming here and there since then and before i got into the program. I'm also an avid scifi fan and have good English composition skills when i actually try. I also have a strong science background, which can be useful in developing "hard" science fiction concepts. I had a concept in the mid '90s that would have been a scifi RCE of sorts and fleshed it out a bit but knew i didn't have the expertise to pull it off by myself.

I'm interested in this idea.

 

[Trux]

haven't read all the thread i must admit..

anyway..

best of luck, you will need it

imho, a team that is forming out of a player-comunity is something i'd stay away from.
a sucessful game needs a 'creative head' who has a bullet-proof design (which means something, that nothing can be added or taken away from).

from experience i know that gamers usually think they have another good idea, or the best idea and want too much. think of EU: i guess 80% of us players think they were able to make the perfect game out of EU. maybe 0.2% (guesstimate, if at all) ever worked on a published MMO. 99% of all ideas will differ from each other..

so imo, the way of 'let's come together all, and make a great game' is hardly to work..
get a team of one producer, and one lead-developer with experience first. let them make a plan, and work on their order to be part of the new game. tell them your ideas, but don't expect them to be in the final game.

anyway, i really hope this will work out an i look forward to visiting the new planet GL

trux

 

[SparkyJordan]

I agree with everything Aridash said. A group of all developers will not make a great company that will accomplish anything.

1. A workable and innovative idea/concept to develop.

Got lots of these.

2. A properly worked business plan. this will require a business minded person, not a developer.

Got one of these.

3. A marketing strategy. this will require a marketing minded person, not a developer.

Got a couple of these.

4. A programe director oversee and coordinate the effort. this will require a person with strong project managment skills, not a developer.

Got one of these too.

5. A company to wrap it all up in.

We'll have one of these soon, as soon as we figure out which country to create it in. It won't be in the US because they want to control everything.
The group has a nicely varied skillset and I think it will work out. We may actually need to find more actual developers later on down the road. The trick is to figure out the best logistics for getting things done effectively. Okay there are several other "tricks" to overcome, but we're addressing them as they come. I believe in the commitment of this group. What started out as a passing fancy is slowly turning into a reality. It's quite exciting!