Mob Damage Studies - Circa 2008

[Oleg]

I love the way my Gremlin+2c has been going up in value with every page of this thread.

I've been telling people for months that Gremlin is one of the best armours in the game. None of them listened.

 

[Jimmy B]

wtf?... very surprised at such an error...

My apologies, the error was mine. I had taken the armor off in order to kill a bunch of argos without decaying it, before i could get to the osseocollum. Thus when I put it back on it had decayed 1pec. Then the resulting reduced protection caused the armor to decay a millipec less than expected.

I love the way my Gremlin+2c has been going up in value with every page of this thread.

I've been telling people for months that Gremlin is one of the best armours in the game. None of them listened.

Yeah, Gremlin is pretty handy to have. Its not going to help you against Caperons though

I think to some extent this thread is showing up a few weaknesses in Ghost and Phantom and the like. I think the lack of Penetration protection in those armors is quite significant and the lack of acid can be a pain too (although even Jag only has 6 acid, but its still 6 useful points against a number of mobs).

 

[Oleg]

Yeah, Gremlin is pretty handy to have. Its not going to help you against Caperons though

Assuming that they do enough damage to tax the armour to it's fullest on both damage types, Gremlin gives 7 extra protection over Ghost. Sounds quite useful to me, especially on the lower maturities.

 

[Jimmy B]

Assuming that they do enough damage to tax the armour to it's fullest on both damage types, Gremlin gives 7 extra protection over Ghost. Sounds quite useful to me, especially on the lower maturities.

Yeah, true.

Even with plated versions of either its still hit..hit..dead or maybe hit..hit..hit..dead if I'm lucky. But I guess in a team hunt the extra 7 points could be the difference between celebrating the global with your team, or getting some funny comments for globalling by the revival machine

 

[Oleg]

Yeah, true.

Even with plated versions of either its still hit..hit..dead or maybe hit..hit..hit..dead if I'm lucky. But I guess in a team hunt the extra 7 points could be the difference between celebrating the global with your team, or getting some funny comments for globalling by the revival machine

Or it's the difference between needing 130 HP and 137 HP to kill them

 

[Jimmy B]

Or it's the difference between needing 130 HP and 137 HP to kill them

Very true. Gremlin is very good. I'm going to bed, its 4.00am. It's no wonder we're 1st and 4th in the activity ranks

 

[Oleg]

Very true. Gremlin is very good. I'm going to bed, its 4.00am. It's no wonder we're 1st and 4th in the activity ranks

Hehe grats on getting to number 1

 

[TimUnleashed]

My apologies, the error was mine. I had taken the armor off in order to kill a bunch of argos without decaying it, before i could get to the osseocollum. Thus when I put it back on it had decayed 1pec. Then the resulting reduced protection caused the armor to decay a millipec less than expected.

lol! VU 9.0 strikes again!

Hehe grats on getting to number 1

there's an activity stats list? what'll they think of next?!

 

[Bob Govintl]

Formicacida (Weak) does not do Impact and Cut: it does Cut, Stab and Acid

Thought they probably did acid considering its in their name. had been meaning to test it during the HU opalo hunts but never got round to it. shogun definately protects for 20 though which isn't really helpful still trying to narrow down their damage range, dont know if you've done this already. so far i've got weak doing between 58.9 and 115.9 (95 hits) and strong 67.7 to 131.7 (30 hits)


edit: just got a 58.3 hit from a formi so i've updated wiki with 116 as the max damage from a weak

 

[Jimmy B]

Well, just unlocked Combat Sense so I decided to go and give some Hispidus a good pasting to celebrate.

After I gave up cursing the lootless bastards, I noticed they were hitting me for a bigger damage range than I expected from their supposed 100% Impact status. Finally found a few globals and so called it a night, and went back to decay test them.

Against Hispidus Young Ghost decays 3.073, which Coop's infallible formula tells us is 34 damage absorbed. So Hispidus do Impact and Cut. I've put it 50/50 on wiki for lack of better knowledge at the moment - all I really know is Cut>25% and Impact>32%.

 

[Mojoswoptops]

My god you guys' formula's (or formuli?) makes my thinky place hurt. But fantastic work, much appreciated. Now please hurry, test every mob and post results asap!! Lol joke, if i could understand, i'd offer to help. Plus rep to jimmy and oleg. And whomever else i see contributing. Sorry if i don't namecheck you, i'm bit lazy.

 

[Oleg]

Well, just unlocked Combat Sense so I decided to go and give some Hispidus a good pasting to celebrate.

After I gave up cursing the lootless bastards, I noticed they were hitting me for a bigger damage range than I expected from their supposed 100% Impact status. Finally found a few globals and so called it a night, and went back to decay test them.

Against Hispidus Young Ghost decays 3.073, which Coop's infallible formula tells us is 34 damage absorbed. So Hispidus do Impact and Cut. I've put it 50/50 on wiki for lack of better knowledge at the moment - all I really know is Cut>25% and Impact>32%.

Interesting, and grats on your Combat Sense

 

[Jimmy B]

Interesting, and grats on your Combat Sense

Thanks, I'll stick a post in achievements later, but its going to bring me avoidance and 150 HP pretty quick so going to wait for them!

 

[JohnCapital]

If anyone has 5D plates, (which I'm trying to find) I'd like to suggest meeting all the "impact only" mobs to verify.

This is my plan, soon as I find some 5Ds costing less than an uber. (ok 900, but you get the idea)

 

[Jimmy B]

If anyone has 5D plates, (which I'm trying to find) I'd like to suggest meeting all the "impact only" mobs to verify.

This is my plan, soon as I find some 5Ds costing less than an uber. (ok 900, but you get the idea)

I have 5D plates, so I'll work through the mobs slowly.

Its actually pretty easy to work out what damage a mob does just using Ghost, as long as the mob does enough damage to cover all of Ghost's protection against it. Get hit once on a couple of armor pieces, find the decay, if its the same each time use the Coop formula to find how much damage was absorbed, then you can normally figure it out as Ghost has protection against everything. Sometimes you need to retest with something else to eliminate possibilities though, and it won't work very small mobs.

 

[Jimmy B]

Went hunting Oculus for the first time in a while today. Noticed that in Ghost+4C Youngs were doing more damage than Matures and Olds and roughly the same as Providers. Figured maybe the Matures & Olds had an extra damage type I was protecting against. Turns out not, so just confirming Oculus as 100% Electric here. Its just another weird maturity thing with Youngs and Providers being the same for some reason - already on wiki, I just hadn't noticed it.

So, erm, bump.

 

[Redfrog]

Formicacida

Quite contrary to wiki, Formicacida (Weak) actually do Cut, Stab and Acid.

Not sure in what proportions, its a bit hard to test this one.

My first thought on this was Goblin+5As giving 4 Cut and 9 Acid.
Sound feasible?

 

[Witte]

Something that might be usefull, I added hits taken to the damage log tool: http://www.entropiawiki.com/EUOCR.rar

only armor penetration hits are not working.

 

[Doer]

You guys have done some terrific work for this thread!

Right, I haven't tested for breakdowns as I was planning on having the day off from this thread

But I did a bit of armor decay data gathering which has illuminated an interesting wiki error.

I went back with Goblin+6A. The 6A does not decay. The Goblin decays as a 9 dmg hit would. Thus, rather surprisingly:

Formicacida (Weak) does not do Impact and Cut: it does Cut, Stab and Acid

Just for the record, formic acid is a defensive and offensive chemical produced by members of the genus Formica, otherwise known as ants. Your findings don't surprise me.

Thanks, I'll stick a post in achievements later, but its going to bring me avoidance and 150 HP pretty quick so going to wait for them!

Gratz, Jimmy.

I don't have anything useful to share, sorry.

 

[Jimmy B]

Thanks Doer.

My first thought on this was Goblin+5As giving 4 Cut and 9 Acid.
Sound feasible?

I'm building up a bit of a collection of L armors that will allow me to test stuff like this more carefully at some point if I choose to. At the moment I'm more interested in knowing what damage types each mob does, rather than worrying too much about the breakdown.

Problem with Goblin+5A for determining the breakdown is that, since Formis do a lot of damage, even on a minimum hit its very probable that they do more than 4 Cut and 9 Acid. So the Goblin+5A will decay for 4 Cut and 9 Acid every time, which tells us nothing sadly.

 

[Dion Red Strike]

I'm hoping I can get some good testing in on thorifoids without blowing too much on fap decay...

Anyone able to help?

 

[Jimmy B]

Haven't had much time for testing recently, but I can confirm that Snargs, Goki, Mourners all do the expected damage types as predicted by wiki.

I'm hoping I can get some good testing in on thorifoids without blowing too much on fap decay...

Anyone able to help?

The simple method to test what damage types something does is to take one hit from a mob (or a couple of hits to avoid errors, but to separate armor pieces - multiple hits on the same armor messes things up a bit, unless its an L). Ideally the hit should use up all the armor's protection so its a bit harder for smaller mobs. Record the decay and then post it here (or use the formula yourself in the armor decay thread). As it protects against all damage types, Ghost is often enough alone to determine the damage types the mob does using this method. Using plates such as 5D or 4B gives a bit of extra info that helps too. Occasionally another armor may be useful, I've only ever needed Gremlin on top of Ghost in order to pin it down completely.

In the case of multi-damage type mobs, if you want to pin down the amounts of each type of damage, that's a bit tougher but there's some worked examples on this thread.

However, the 100% Cold listed for Thorifoids is probably right I think. I can take 1.0 hits off quite big ones in Viking+5D, although that doesn't absolutely rule out a small percentage coming from something else.

 

[Dion Red Strike]

Haven't had much time for testing recently, but I can confirm that Snargs, Goki, Mourners all do the expected damage types as predicted by wiki.



The simple method to test what damage types something does is to take one hit from a mob (or a couple of hits to avoid errors, but to separate armor pieces - multiple hits on the same armor messes things up a bit, unless its an L). Ideally the hit should use up all the armor's protection so its a bit harder for smaller mobs. Record the decay and then post it here (or use the formula yourself in the armor decay thread). As it protects against all damage types, Ghost is often enough alone to determine the damage types the mob does using this method. Using plates such as 5D or 4B gives a bit of extra info that helps too. Occasionally another armor may be useful, I've only ever needed Gremlin on top of Ghost in order to pin it down completely.

In the case of multi-damage type mobs, if you want to pin down the amounts of each type of damage, that's a bit tougher but there's some worked examples on this thread.

However, the 100% Cold listed for Thorifoids is probably right I think. I can take 1.0 hits off quite big ones in Viking+5D, although that doesn't absolutely rule out a small percentage coming from something else.

3 things,

1) Can you point me towards the armor decay formula?

2) I think you may be right about cold damage on the big ones, but, Occasionally it just doesn't seem like it...

3) I would like to actually double check the min/max hits on the larger ones... I am able to (now) solo all the big ones (w/o crits ofc), but, I know when I first started on them, it was quite frustrating knowing I had the best armor for them, with the best plates, and I was still getting my ass kicked occasionally. Had I known that a dreamer does 135 dmg without armor, then I could have predicted at what point my armor was too decayed to bother trying to kill one... But at the same time, I would also like to know what the minimum hits are, because most of them never hit for max anyhow...

~Red

 

[TimUnleashed]

3 things,

1) Can you point me towards the armor decay formula?

Sorry, the answers to 2 and 3 are definitely best left to Jimmy, but I believe 1 is a thread you already seem to have posted on:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/armor/94684-how-armor-works.html

The formula's in Jimmy B's opening post there.

 

[Jimmy B]

3 things,

1) Can you point me towards the armor decay formula?

See above, cheers Tim.

2) I think you may be right about cold damage on the big ones, but, Occasionally it just doesn't seem like it...

Yeah its worth testing, there could be a small amount like 20% or so of something else plausibly. Its a bit hard to test the bigger ones at the moment because getting to the temple and back to a tp without taking a spurious hit isn't trivial and takes a bit of tp'ing. Should be easier after LG though.

3) I would like to actually double check the min/max hits on the larger ones... I am able to (now) solo all the big ones (w/o crits ofc), but, I know when I first started on them, it was quite frustrating knowing I had the best armor for them, with the best plates, and I was still getting my ass kicked occasionally. Had I known that a dreamer does 135 dmg without armor, then I could have predicted at what point my armor was too decayed to bother trying to kill one... But at the same time, I would also like to know what the minimum hits are, because most of them never hit for max anyhow...

~Red

Imp/Mod fap is pretty useful here.

Basically the method is:

Stand in front of mob fapping. Record the hits. The highest hit you receive can be rounded up to the integer above it. The lowest hit you receive can be rounded down to the nearest 0.5.

Once you have min hit = half of max hit, that's the max and min damage the mob can do.

You can do it using armor too, but then you need to know for sure what damage types the mob does.

 

[Dion Red Strike]

Sorry, the answers to 2 and 3 are definitely best left to Jimmy, but I believe 1 is a thread you already seem to have posted on:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/armor/94684-how-armor-works.html

The formula's in Jimmy B's opening post there.

Heh, when you're subscribed to hundreds of threads, it often becomes difficult to remember which one has what info

-----
Jimmy,

Yes, tp'in is a serious pain back and forth, and, like you said, you need a mod/imp fap...

Would one of the owners of such item please report to the temple?

~Red

 

[Kolobok]

armax and warrior revisited

While hunting armax/warriors and occasional troopers east of argus I took notes on min/max damage of different mobs. The results for Armax Bull are mostly consistent with wiki, so I'm just mentioning them here for the record:

young: max dmg 52 - naked test
mature: min 1.0 max 21.4 - vigi+5b
old: min 1.0 max 33.8 - vigi+5b
provider: min 3.4 max 41.4 - vigi+5b

In fact I got once a hit of 34.4 from an old, but I'm not sure whether it was due to leaky armor or actually due to an extra hit point. 33.8 is for sure on a freshly repaired armor. I was not able to get 1.0 hit from a provider, as wiki suggests, so it might be an indication of different % of each dmg type, unless I'm specifically unlucky with providers

The results for Warrior seem to be different from what wiki suggests:

Warrior 01: min 2.5 max 35.8 in vigi+5b

If we assume that warrior 01 hits for 91 max, then vigi+5b protects for 91-36=55 at max hit and for 45.5-2.5=43.0 at min hit. Sorry, no conclusions at this time.

Some occasional hits from Trooper 04 (so far min 11.3 max 48.3) are also quite different from what wiki predicts.

It is quite time consuming to measure precisely max dmg of hard hitting mobs. I hope these notes are useful, and perhaps other people will find it amusing to keep an eye on the min/max dmg of their favorite mobs, which is much cheaper and easier to do in an armor while hunting, unless one has a modfap at hand.

 

[Jimmy B]

Thanks Kolobok. And yes troopers and warriors are both ones that definately need some further testing.

Like you say, with the Armax provider that is almost certainly a result of the percentages not being quite the same as on wiki. Anything that is like 33%, 33%, 33% on wiki or 50%, 50% should be treated as a sensible guess lacking any other info, rather than actual fact. The tested atrax and atrox numbers are quite different to the previously listed 33%/33%/33% for instance.

 

[Kolobok]

warrior 06 test

Big warriors are very close to zeus, so it is easy to test them there. Here are the results of the test:

Warrior 06, vigi+5B, decay in pec:

Part     Dmg taken  Decay Vigi  Decay 5B  
Arm      35.7       3.091       0.385
Gloves   24.0       2.952       0.309
Harness  22.1       2.928       0.294
Shin     20.8       2.912       0.288
Thigh    34.4       3.076       0.376
Feet     30.8       3.033       0.351

The mighty warrior was kind enough to kill poor little Kolo in 6 shots, hitting exactly different part each time.

I'll analyze the hits to arm-guards and shin-guards.

Part     Dmg abs. by Vigi  Dmg abs. by 5B  
Arm      34.29             6.29
Shin     32.85             4.85

Vigi protects 28 (14 burn + 14 penetration) + same amount as 5B, that is impact+cut+stab. % of burn and penetration is at least 14/(20.8+32.85+4.85) = 24% each, and for impact+cut+stab altogether it is 16%.

 

[Jimmy B]

Cheers Kolobok, that would also seem to imply they do either 109 or 121 max damage (Percentage of Impact+Cut+Stab multiplied by max damage should be an integer). The smallest hit was for 58.5 which rules out 121 so looks like 109.

I guess the next step is to stand in front of one in Goblin and see if it decays, and if so whether its by the full percentage or not. Although doing it on an 06 means it could take a while to find another lol

I'm on CND at the moment so can't help out right now...