Mob Damage Studies - Circa 2008

[Witte]

Vigi protects 28 (14 burn + 14 penetration) + same amount as 5B, that is impact+cut+stab. % of burn and penetration is at least 14/(20.8+32.85+4.85) = 24% each, and for impact+cut+stab altogether it is 16%.

Good work!

Keep in mind that plates and armor both absorb all the C/S/I so actual percentage would be ~8%

 

[Kolobok]

As Jimmy B suggested, I tested with goblin. This time I was met by a 04, that hit me three times: 64.6, 65.0 and 85.4. Two first shots hit the thigh-guards that decayed for 0.774 pec, and the third one hit the harness, that decayed for 0.533 pec.

0.533 decay corresponds to 8.34 of absorbed impact. That is, impact % is 8.34/(8.34+85.4)=8.9%. In integers, we obtain that the maximum dmg of Warrior 04 is 101, with 9 of it being impact, and the rest being burn and penetration.

According to Witte's comment, I guess we can safely deduce that Warrior 06 also does impact, burn and penetration, 109 max dmg, with 9 of it being impact.

 

[Kolobok]

Warrior 06 solved

Today my friend Sal 'aman 'dra kindly gave me his complete Salamander set for testing. I was able to meet again mighty Warrior 06. Here are the results:

Salamander + 5B:

06 hit me for 25.9, 8.1, 25.4, 14.0, 36.3, 9.8, 6.0, before it passed away.

Decay for the parts:

arm-guards: 6 pec + 911 dung; 5B - 394 dung
harness: 5 pec + 645 dung; 5B - 319 dung
helmet: 13 pec + 477 dung; 5B - 791 dung
thigh-guards: 21 pec + 435 dung; 5B - 1 pec + 593 dung

So clearly thigh guards took 3 hits, helmet - 2 hits, harness and arm-guards - 1 hit each.

Harness took 53.33 dmg and its 5B took 5.32 dmg. It was the lowest hit of all, that is the last one (6.0). Armor protected for 5.32+53.33=58.65. Total hit was 58.65+6.0=64.65. Of all damage 5.32 was impact, so harness took 5 impact, 8 penetration and 40.33 burn. The conclusion is:

Warrior 06 does total 109 damage, 9 impact, 68 burn, 32 penetration.

 

[Jimmy B]

Nice job Kolobok. I've updated the summary on page 6 with those results.

 

[Kolobok]

Trooper 05 results

One thing that is not easy with this test is to find a trooper with one's own armor fully repaired, avoiding other mobs. I was able to meet a 05 far east of Argus, tp'ing west from Zeus.

Results, Salamander + 5B

6 hits: 2.8, 35.9, 7.0, 24.7, 8.4, 13.2

Parts decay:

Harness, 8 pec + 324 dung; 5B: 1 pec + 588 dung
Thigh, 8 pec + 324 dung; 5B: 1 pec + 251 dung
Shin, 15 pec + 671 dung; 5B: 2 pec + 377 dung
Foot, 16 pec + 630 dung; 5B: 3 pec + 54 dung

That is, shin-guards and foot-guards took 2 hits each, harness and thigh guards took 1 hit each.

Damage absorbed:

Harness: 70, 5B: 20.35
Thigh: 70, 5B: 16.85

Analysis

Total protection of salamander is 75, so trooper doesn't do either impact or shrapnel. Hit to harness shows that 5B absorbed more than 20 dmg. It can't take that much from cut and stab only, therefore excluding shrapnel damage. That is, Trooper 05 does burn, penetration, impact, cut, stab.

Next step is to relate hits to armor parts. The ratio of I+C+S for two hits should be equal to the ratio of the total hits, that is, for harness and thigh: 20.35/16.85 = (20.35+70+hit1)/(16.85+70+hit2), where hit1 and hit2 are among the 6 values of hits. The only possible solution is that hit1=24.7 and hit2=8.4, and the % for I+C+S is 17.69%.

Knowing this ratio, we can do further analysis for two other armor parts. For hits of 13.2 and 35.9 armor absorbed 70 of I+C+S+B+P and 5B absorbed all I+C+S. For 35.9 and x=I+C+S we have 0.1769*(70+35.9+x)=x, that is x=22.76 and total hit=22.76+70+35.9=128.66. Same for 13.2 and 0.1769*(70+13.2+x)=x, that is x=17.88 and total hit=17.88+70+13.2=101.08. I+C+S damage of 17.88 results in 5B decay of 1.348 pec and of 22.76 - decay of 1.833 pec.

Comparing this to the decay of 5B for shin-guards and foot-guards we see that foot-guards took the hits of 35.9 and 7.0, and shin-guards - of 13.2 and 2.8.

Maximum hit (35.9) was to foot-guards: I+C+S=22.76 and total hit=22.76+35.9+69.9=128.56. Minumum hit (2.8) was to shin-guards, I+C+S=14.39 and total=2.8+14.39+64.18=81.37. In the latter case armor decayed less than 70, that is B+P damage was less than 58.

Conclusion

Trooper 05 does five types of damage. Most likely its maximum damage equals 130 and is divided into I+C+S of 23 and B+P of 107. For exact numbers more tests are needed. Hopefully goblin test will confirm the maximum dmg and impact part immediately.

 

[Jimmy B]

Nice start, and an interesting result already

Next step is to relate hits to armor parts. The ratio of I+C+S for two hits should be equal to the ratio of the total hits, that is, for harness and thigh: 20.35/16.85 = (20.35+70+hit1)/(16.85+70+hit2), where hit1 and hit2 are among the 6 values of hits. The only possible solution is that hit1=24.7 and hit2=8.4, and the % for I+C+S is 17.69%.

For future reference, this only works if all the I+C+S was absorbed. That doesn't appear to be a given here, although the fact you have a match for those two hits suggest its most likely the case.

 

[JohnCapital]

For testing mobs that are further out, I suggest using "traveling armor". Wear something else while you head out to the location you plan on testing. Once you're close to the intended test site and run no risk of testing breaking attacks, you can switch to your test armor.

Oh, and just so it's no surprise, Rippers do cut/stab. Goblin+5Bs confirmed that. I also believe I went in once wearing shogun+6As (to wash my armor after hunting bots) and the 6As weren't touched. (I may have to repeat this test, as this is a memory from a while back.)

 

[Jimmy B]

For testing mobs that are further out, I suggest using "traveling armor". Wear something else while you head out to the location you plan on testing. Once you're close to the intended test site and run no risk of testing breaking attacks, you can switch to your test armor.

That works, although the 1 pec equipping decay means you tend to get a tiny bit of decay less than the formula predicts.

 

[JohnCapital]

That works, although the 1 pec equipping decay means you tend to get a tiny bit of decay less than the formula predicts.

True, but that's much easier to factor then some random hits from a rampaging merp.

 

[Jimmy B]

Electric Mobs

Oleg pointed out that my Viking is perfect for verifying electric mobs do only electric.

So I went and checked and can confirm Trilomites, Bristlehogs, Cersumon, Oculus, Tezlapods, Repesilex all do 100% electric, at least for the maturities I encountered on my trip

 

[JohnCapital]

Oleg pointed out that my Viking is perfect for verifying electric mobs do only electric.

So I went and checked and can confirm Trilomites, Bristlehogs, Cersumon, Oculus, Tezlapods, Repesilex all do 100% electric, at least for the maturities I encountered on my trip

Great job, as usual man.

And kudos to Oleg for noticing that lil fact. Never noticed myself, but must admit I never paid attention to that armors stats.

 

[Immortal]

Tested big repesilex. Yup . All electric.

 

[Oleg]

Great job, as usual man.

And kudos to Oleg for noticing that lil fact. Never noticed myself, but must admit I never paid attention to that armors stats.

Jimmy's being too modest, it was more of a combination effort on spotting that useful little feature of Viking. Good job on doing the legwork, Jimmy

 

[Oleg]

After thinking about the Viking/Electric I wondered what other combinations could be used to confirm our suspicions about 100% damage types. 100% impact was already mentioned earlier on, and after a study of the Entropedia tables I came up with these possibilities:

Acid:

Aurora (L) + 5E(L)
Martial (L) + 4E(L)
Orca (L) + 5E(L)
Trooper + 4E(L)

Cold:

Martial (L) + 2C / 2D(L) / 4A / 6C(L)
PoE + 5E(L)
Sema(L) + 1C / 4C / 5E(L) / 6B
Serum(L) + 1C / 4C / 5E(L) / 6B
Shadow Modified (come on Marco, help us out here )
Trooper + 2C / 2D(L) / 4A / 6C(L)

So for acid we really need some of those new plates, and for Cold it looks like Trooper + 2C will be the most viable option (Thorifoid are the only mob worth investigating with this though, judging by previous estimates).

Probably easier just to do it with 2 or 3 different sets, I suppose.

 

[Jimmy B]

(Thorifoid are the only mob worth investigating with this though, judging by previous estimates).

Thorifoids are easy to decay test with Ghost. If they're 100% Cold they should min decay per hit, if they have anything else they'll be over min decay. (Couldn't draw that conclusion with the Reps earlier as 11 Electric + 1 of acid, penetration or shrapnel would have min decayed too).

I'm waiting for LG to do the test though - better to do it on higher maturity ones if possible just in case new damage types appear higher up (& getting to the temple is just a pain for testing).

 

[Kolobok]

Formidon check

Got 3 hits from Formidon Young in goblin for 56.7, 54.9, 81.8. Decay was 0.530 pec for arm-guards (8.3 impact absorbed) and 1.329 pec for harness. With 12 impact of 94 total damage we get perfect match for 56.7: 12/8.3=94/(56.7+8.3). So at least impact part and total damage seems correct in the summary table.

 

[Johned]

So for acid we really need some of those new plates, and for Cold it looks like Trooper + 2C will be the most viable option

Will it matter if the trooper was missing feet? AFAIK there are no trooper feet BPs yet.

 

[Oleg]

Will it matter if the trooper was missing feet? AFAIK there are no trooper feet BPs yet.

Not really, even one piece and one plate would make it testable (with patience).

 

[Johned]

Will it matter if the trooper was missing feet? AFAIK there are no trooper feet BPs yet.

Not really, even one piece and one plate would make it testable (with patience).

Thanks. I don't have 4C handy atm, but I do have all trooper but feet. The previous offer I made via PM to a few of you still stands if you are interested and this will help with the testing.

Zar

 

[Oleg]

While the Gradivore Stalkers are around I thought I'd do some quick testing to check that they did 100% acid.

Shogun didn't decay, so if they do more than acid, it's either shrapnel, cold or electric. Seems unlikely.

 

[slither]

I just updated wiki for Osseocollum, the 90/10 impact/cut was way off.

I've set it at 50/50 cut/stab, not certain of % but definitly only cut/stab

Also added 160dam for mature, could be a little more but this is about as close as I can get atm

 

[slither]

Whatever happened to this thread? There was some great work going on here and it stopped

Anyway, I tried osse in my new full chronicle and I can confirm that my thoughts that they did 50/50 cut/stab were incorrect. I'm now thinking they do 70/30 or even 80/20 but not sure how to confirm this - still easy to do in my chron but i'm getting hits over 1 from a young.

I also set the caperon in wiki to 80/20 imp/acid, it's not perfect but a lot better than the 90/10 which was in before it.

 

[Jimmy B]

WoF distracted us I think

I'll respond later in more detail.

 

[slither]

As per your request Jimmy, 1 hit from hogg young on chronicle did 7.533 decay.

I had to use 7pec plus 533 fruit, hope I don't have to use all fruit 'cause I don't have that much

 

[Jimmy B]

As per your request Jimmy, 1 hit from hogg young on chronicle did 7.533 decay.

I had to use 7pec plus 533 fruit, hope I don't have to use all fruit 'cause I don't have that much

No slither, 1000 fruit/dung is always sufficient.

Just to check were you wearing 5B too? And I need to know the size of the hit you took. Forgot to mention, it needs to be not a 1.0 Hit I'm afraid.

 

[slither]

I had 5b on which decayed the full amount of 2514, didn't see the hits as i was franticaly trying to see the armour piece which got hit lol - but i had 3 pieces all decay the same amount.

Do u need me to test again with a definite >1.0 hit?

 

[Jimmy B]

I had 5b on which decayed the full amount of 2514, didn't see the hits as i was franticaly trying to see the armour piece which got hit lol - but i had 3 pieces all decay the same amount.

Do u need me to test again with a definite >1.0 hit?

Hmm, something weird is going on then, they decay should be different each hit unless you're either absorbing all the damage with the armor alone (which you're not), or using all the absorption the armor can offer each time (again you're not).

Even three 1.0 hits should be yielding different decays, unless the Hog hit for the exactly the same amount three times in a row (pretty unlikely).

But anyway yeah, to get any conclusive results we need the decay and hit size from a non-1.0 hit.

 

[slither]

Damn, that was hard work with the speed they hit.

unplated chronicle with a 27.5 hit from hogg young, decay = 6.254

 

[Jimmy B]

Example of 1-Hit method to determine damage proportions

OK Slither, quick summary of how you do the 1-hit method. I'll use Hogglo's as the example since it's what we're talking about at the moment.

(i) First you need an armour that is going to absorb different amounts each time its hit. So 5B plates tell us nothing much against Hogglo (since they just decay the full amount each time), and similarly Shadow against Argonaut Young tells us nothing (since all the cut and all the impact is absorbed each time, so there's no way to distinguish between them).

(ii) So Hogglo and Chronicle is fine. We know Hogglo Young do more than 13 Impact, and we know they do less than 70 Stab and 60 Cut. We'll absorb 13 Impact each time, but the amount of Stab and Cut absorbed will depend on how hard the hit is.

(iii) Now we go get hit for more than 1.0 in fully repaired Chronicle v Hogglo.

(iv) Record the hit size

(v) Measure the exact decay

(vi) Let's say you took a 3.7 hit and the Chronicle piece decayed 7.533.

(vii) Use the formula on https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/armor/94684-how-armor-works.html to determine how much damage was absorbed. By trial and error we find it absorbed 66.26 damage.

(viii) We know we absorbed 13 Impact, so there was 53.26 damage absorbed that was a combination of Cut and Stab.

(ix) The 5B plates absorbed the full 29 damage and we took 3.7 damage. So the total hit was for 66.26+29+3.7 = 98.96 dmg. Thus there was 98.96-53.26 = 45.7 Impact damage.

(x) So this imaginary Hogglo Young does 45.7/98.96 = 46.2% Impact and the rest Cut and Stab in proportions yet to be determined.

(xi) Since maximum hit should result in an integer amount of Impact, Cut, Stab we can deduce that the imaginary Hogglo Young does 130 max damage. (Since 45.7*(130/98.96) is very close to an integer 60 and no other maximum damage in the right range yields an answer close to an integer).

Obviously the actual working would need to be modified, as I made up the 3.7 dmg taken.

 

[Jimmy B]

Damn, that was hard work with the speed they hit.

unplated chronicle with a 27.5 hit from hogg young, decay = 6.254

Yeah not the easiest mob to work with. Cheers Slither, calculating...