Petition: Restore old mining loot system

[Nor Alien]

Yes 5% would be real nice, we have many moneysinks here so it leaves more than enough space for MA to profit.

The only problem I see with this, and many other things dealing with how MA makes their money, is that we see in there financial statements that they are not making as much money as they did before. Yet it seems, and I am only assuming here, that the constant return of 90% is still intact. What changed from before? Would lowering their profits, or income, make things worse or better? Lastly, I have been playing for 7 years, and have had no problems with the 90% return rate. In fact I have gone for almost 2 years on a single deposit of 25 usd and had close to 450 ped in the end. Maybe it's my play style or maybe my ava is luckier then others. I don't know, but what I can tell you is, the current 90% return seems fair to me.

Having said that, I understand why you would want more in return. In fact it may just bring more people in, but at what cost? If they are able to make a good living at it, and from the financials I would say it's ok compared to other MMO's, then kudos to them. Also this is really the only RCE like it out there. If there where to be more competition, then I think things would change.

Thank you for replying though. I see that there are more people here that think the same as you, and thats ok, but I think it safe to assume that it won't change anytime soon, unless it has already, but I haven't noticed the difference!!

Gl to you and have fun!

 

[Thedarksnw]

There is another RCE game out there, highlights:
All TT comes from thin air, you only lose time to gain things.
All prices are in markups, TT is just a tiny percent of price.
It doesn't have any of side moneysinks like travel costs, repairs of social items etc.
You don't have to pay any tax untill your auction sells.
Deposits are not taxed.
Withdraw is possible within 2-3 days.
Game never had 'You can make real money here' advertisements and most likely never will.
Very big online.

Don't worry about MA, you lose % on both deposit and withdraw. They can't start losing money even with 100% returns.

p.s there are two other rce games, one is really old but I can't consider it a game , other just seems like pure gambling to me.

 

[Strash]

well first of all.... it is your brain that you need to make that markup or 10% + to cover on your own.....
Servers aren't free to run..... programmers aren't free to program..... etc etc etc....



just like real life .... if you spend your money stupid you lose.... your spend your money moderately win/lose.... you spend it smart you win....

 

[Thedarksnw]

Cool, I'm not a losing player though..

 

[Nor Alien]

As far as I know MA does not take any money on the deposits, its the banks. I asked them once, can't remember when, but they told me it was a bank fee plus an exchange rate. ( I'm Canadian ). I do agree with the 90% as this is what I believe works for them from the beginning. I haven`t had a problem with making my money last more then a few months. I have also made deposits last a few hours as well. LOL (hunting above my skill level) Either way, I get what you are saying, I just don`t think it will change any time soon.

 

[Thedarksnw]

Funny how not only online poker rooms never have that deposit tax but also ALL of them give you 25-100% bonus on it.

 

[aia]

Funny how not only online poker rooms never have that deposit tax but also ALL of them give you 25-100% bonus on it.

I checked a random website (pokerstars.se) and to get their bonus, you had to play and collect something they called "VPP" to be able to claim your bonus. What I guess they do is that the bonus you get comes from the "rake" they get (ie "decay"). It's like if you deposit 100 ped and are promised another 100 ped bonus, you need to shoot through 1000 peds of ammo to get it.

As for depositing through paypal, for me it feels like a detour as the easiest way I know to get money into PP is to use a CC, but them you could use the CC to deposit immediately.

If MA wanted more low-level players to stay, maybe they should make it easier to deposit (if they haven't done so), like checking out how hard it is to buy PEDs with cash through "vouchers" (the same way you buy vouchers to tip up a cellphone pre-paid card). Maybe there are countries PE is popular in where there is no representative for the type of "vouchers" that can be used to deposit. (It seems like using pre-paid credit cards is mostly trouble - if someone gets problem with depositing through one, MA refers to bank, and bank refers to a pay-phone number or simply take a huge fee for any second deposit attempt.)

To sum the last thing up, to make it easier for some people to deposit, make it easier to deposit through cash.

 

[Thedarksnw]

Yes it works exactly like that, you probably would have to cycle a lot more though but you do it by regular playing, losing nothing in the process. So in EU it would look like: deposit 1k ped, cycle 20k ped in 2-3 months and get 1k ped bonus. These 'rakeback' programs do best to keep players from quitting. Another example would be: cycle 10k ped and get some RL item like clothing with game symbolics or a 200 ped voucher. Keep cycling and your 'loyalty' level increases and so does your rakeback %. All these programs work perfectly and allow pokerrooms to host tournaments with huge rewards added to pool. Last room I was playing had over 1 mil USD total in pool every week and still they somehow didn't go bankrupt with 5% rake .

 

[Profit]

But Mindark still lie to our faces and say that EU isn't gambling.
Until they admit that this is gambling, they will NEVER offer a reward system like VPP @ ps (or every single other online gambling platform).
You can't have rakeback unless the house admits there's a rake.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Yes it works exactly like that, you probably would have to cycle a lot more though but you do it by regular playing, losing nothing in the process. So in EU it would look like: deposit 1k ped, cycle 20k ped in 2-3 months and get 1k ped bonus. These 'rakeback' programs do best to keep players from quitting. Another example would be: cycle 10k ped and get some RL item like clothing with game symbolics or a 200 ped voucher. Keep cycling and your 'loyalty' level increases and so does your rakeback %. All these programs work perfectly and allow pokerrooms to host tournaments with huge rewards added to pool. Last room I was playing had over 1 mil USD total in pool every week and still they somehow didn't go bankrupt with 5% rake .

Frequent Flyer Miles FTW

could just expand the yearly gifts, to include more tiers for diffrent deposit marks. Instead of just 1 deer head for the depositors.

 

[Thedarksnw]

I allways thought skills were rakeback tbh .

 

[Strash]

what?

 

[Rutabaga]

 

[tyk]

well first of all.... it is your brain that you need to make that markup or 10% + to cover on your own.....
Servers aren't free to run..... programmers aren't free to program..... etc etc etc....



just like real life .... if you spend your money stupid you lose.... your spend your money moderately win/lose.... you spend it smart you win....

and thats why u need ppl that lose.. its not all flowers to everyone ingame.. just coz u have the avatar that can hit 90% tt return + some big ones to cover the 10% doesnt mean everyone can.. this game needs ppl who lose and it just cant make it that everyone has possibility to make profit.. and this isnt about whos smarter than other.. my biggest mining depo is little over 3k ped while it should be over 50k ped to bring me to this magical 90% tt return

 

[Rutabaga]

just coz u have the avatar that can hit 90% tt return + some big ones to cover the 10% doesnt mean everyone can..

Yes it does. I've said it a million times, the tt return rate (in the long run) is FIXED. Otherwise we'd all be gambling online (which is illegal in the USA)

and it just cant make it that everyone has possibility to make profit..

Yes it can. Who decides markup, MA or the players?

and this isnt about whos smarter than other..

Yes it is. (MARKUP)

my biggest mining depo is little over 3k ped while it should be over 50k ped to bring me to this magical 90% tt return

As S-Trash would say... "You're doing it wrong"

Hell, I don't even need 90% tt return to profit with the markup on some of these rare ores now...

 

[RickEngland]

The only problem I see with this, and many other things dealing with how MA makes their money, is that we see in there financial statements that they are not making as much money as they did before. Yet it seems, and I am only assuming here, that the constant return of 90% is still intact. What changed from before? Would lowering their profits, or income, make things worse or better? Lastly, I have been playing for 7 years, and have had no problems with the 90% return rate. In fact I have gone for almost 2 years on a single deposit of 25 usd and had close to 450 ped in the end. Maybe it's my play style or maybe my ava is luckier then others. I don't know, but what I can tell you is, the current 90% return seems fair to me.

Well I thought I would do some investigating, so let’s put things into prospective Nor. You may well have only deposited $25 in 2 years, but your tracker says you’ve had no globals for 30 days in anything.
20 hunting globals in total since Dec-2010, 8 total mining globals since 2009, and 1 x crafting global.

So ‘SURE’ your play style certainly has an effect on your overall costs, because if you don’t spend big, you’re not going to lose big. This is not a personal attack, it is to highlight that you cannot compare big contributors with very small contributors into the game economy.

I did some mining the other day on Ark. 300 bombs (or 300 peds) for ores, unamped in one run.

I had loads of finds (even though a TT loss), although I came back with 26 different types of ores over 300 drops (no global), no stacks justified listing any of it to auction. There were no orders for many of the ores, and since the hunting oils I had already listed failed to sell at the lowest MU, I felt I had no option but to TT and walk away from a MASSIVE mistake I should never have attempted. Mental note to self: Would need a good 5K peds to build enough decent size stacks to hopefully sell doing mining planet side.

Yesterday hunting on Calypso, 877 ped SME (ammo) all-in hunt with Mindforce with unlimited chips and I have over 300K skills (and one of the top uber MF'ers in game), 1 x 58 ped global THATS ALL, switched between big ambul south of ashi, then moved onto hog at TI see if those mobs returning had some loot, then last 300 ammo or so moved to Rex at Saba. Bear in mind my latest deposit is not even a week old, and not even been online full time.

Clearly the system had set me to loss because I’m regular depositor, and someone has to pay right.

I’d like to know how many noobs running 877 peds of ammo on one run would have given a BIG F*** YOU to the game if they did a run like that and ended with 300+ ped loss. My bet is ‘ALL OF THEM’.

So please, if you’re not pumping in the peds, it’s not even close enough to even compare apples and oranges, and the bullshit 90%.

On the plus side good news for new starters that want to use the game to socialise and not interact that much, then sure you can be in game for hardly any peds at all.

Rick

 

[SpikeBlack]

I had loads of finds (even though a TT loss), although I came back with 26 different types of ores over 300 drops (no global), no stacks justified listing any of it to auction.

hunting has the same problem, someone listed the stacks from Oro and it was stupidly long somewhere around 30-40 types.

How can you target and build stacks in something if it's so completely random.

 

[dobrinocb]

mining sux , hunt sux , craft sux more than everything else in this game lets just go swunt some bibos

 

[Satans]

I did some mining the other day on Ark. 300 bombs (or 300 peds) for ores, unamped in one run.

I had loads of finds (even though a TT loss), although I came back with 26 different types of ores over 300 drops (no global), no stacks justified listing any of it to auction. There were no orders for many of the ores, and since the hunting oils I had already listed failed to sell at the lowest MU, I felt I had no option but to TT and walk away from a MASSIVE mistake I should never have attempted. Mental note to self: Would need a good 5K peds to build enough decent size stacks to hopefully sell doing mining planet side.

Want to go back and try triple-dropping? Seriously, when I had 4.8k in ores/enmatter/treasure the amount of refined/unrefined stuff went over 220, not to mention, that selling those stuff is really hard on Ark, since it seems that only 3-4 serious crafters actually exist there.

also on a side note, I had solid 100.57% tt returns not long ago (out of 32k cycle), now that value is rapidly dropping back to 90% (at 96% atm). So my guess is, that whenever you hit a nice ''uber'', you're destined to lose it all in the end. Well, the theory should be false if I get back to 100% anytime soon... although I highly doubt that I'll get the missing 4% back (which equals 1305 PED) anytime soon.

HOF forcing with the new system doesn't work as well and my guess is that. THAT was the main reason why MA made this change in the first place. It was easy to get down to 50-60% TT returns, and when the ''feel'' was right, start using bigger amps to try and hit the missing HOF and amplify the overall returns up to 110-120% heh.

 

[Pifometre]

Yes it does. I've said it a million times, the tt return rate (in the long run) is FIXED. Otherwise we'd all be gambling online (which is illegal in the USA)


Yes it can. Who decides markup, MA or the players?


Yes it is. (MARKUP)



As S-Trash would say... "You're doing it wrong"

Hell, I don't even need 90% tt return to profit with the markup on some of these rare ores now...

Wrong..
Markup is a question of offer and demand. Players are doing the demand but MA controls the offer and to some extent part of the demand by fixing loot on crafted items.
And examples are multiplying in past months : adomasite, duru, niks, etc...

 

[raynopssgold]

mining sux , hunt sux , craft sux more than everything else in this game lets just go swunt some bibos

LOL At least u get sweats from bibos

 

[RickEngland]

hunting has the same problem, someone listed the stacks from Oro and it was stupidly long somewhere around 30-40 types.

How can you target and build stacks in something if it's so completely random.

Want to go back and try triple-dropping? Seriously, when I had 4.8k in ores/enmatter/treasure the amount of refined/unrefined stuff went over 220, not to mention, that selling those stuff is really hard on Ark, since it seems that only 3-4 serious crafters actually exist there.

If there is such a thing as "punishment" for TT-ing, or "delayed return" for TT-ing, then I consider it kind of insulting. It's a double edge sword you have hard drill down of peds, and difficulty to list items.

Some might consider it lazy if not prepared to find 100's of buyers for each of the 5 ped stacks. If that is true, I'm quite happy to sip beer lounged on a deck chair at one of the MA executives houses, while he cuts his massive lawn with some small scissors on his hands and knees.

It's challenge for sure, but not exactly entertaining is it....LOL.

Who knows....Maybe MA are dinning out to much in Mexico? It doesn't matter how many ways you split up that food and wrap it up in different ways with different names....it's still the same damn food, it just looks different, and in many cases even harder to get it in your mouth.

Rick

 

[tyk]

Yes it does. I've said it a million times, the tt return rate (in the long run) is FIXED. Otherwise we'd all be gambling online (which is illegal in the USA)


Yes it can. Who decides markup, MA or the players?


Yes it is. (MARKUP)



As S-Trash would say... "You're doing it wrong"

Hell, I don't even need 90% tt return to profit with the markup on some of these rare ores now...

when i go for markup (what i always do) first 1 or 2 runs can be good.. profit with MU but then the game notices it and starts giving me so bad runs tt wise that no MU in the world can save me from... and lately ive looted few ~1k MU items in hunting and i sure can see that in my loot.. it definately seems to count MU some way also.. also seen that before in crafting for example.. losing 3k in a day and then get an bp that sells for around 2.5k-3k..

also remember 1 guy losing tons of peds during sga and then hitting like 3-5 uber items in a short period of time

 

[zeusrocktropian]

when i go for markup (what i always do) first 1 or 2 runs can be good.. profit with MU but then the game notices it and starts giving me so bad runs tt wise that no MU in the world can save me from... and lately ive looted few ~1k MU items in hunting and i sure can see that in my loot.. it definately seems to count MU some way also.. also seen that before in crafting for example.. losing 3k in a day and then get an bp that sells for around 2.5k-3k..

also remember 1 guy losing tons of peds during sga and then hitting like 3-5 uber items in a short period of time

So you're saying that coincidence happens even in this game... hmmm... interesting theory
The thing is that every avatar looses TT wise in the long run but not every avatar gets a rare blueprint or rare hunting loot. That's why it does have that high markup, otherwise guess what? Yes, when u had some bad returns doing nothing wrong, you probably will get something rare or better, it's all about the odds: you get something better - you probably gonna get next something not that great and the other way around.

If we all get "rare" loots they won't be so rare, would they?

 

[Profit]

Yes it does. I've said it a million times, the tt return rate (in the long run) is FIXED. Otherwise we'd all be gambling online (which is illegal in the USA)

Slot Machines have fixed return.
You suggesting that Slot Machines are not gambling?

 

[Nor Alien]

Well I thought I would do some investigating, so let’s put things into prospective Nor. You may well have only deposited $25 in 2 years, but your tracker says you’ve had no globals for 30 days in anything.
20 hunting globals in total since Dec-2010, 8 total mining globals since 2009, and 1 x crafting global.

So ‘SURE’ your play style certainly has an effect on your overall costs, because if you don’t spend big, you’re not going to lose big. This is not a personal attack, it is to highlight that you cannot compare big contributors with very small contributors into the game economy.

I did some mining the other day on Ark. 300 bombs (or 300 peds) for ores, unamped in one run.

I had loads of finds (even though a TT loss), although I came back with 26 different types of ores over 300 drops (no global), no stacks justified listing any of it to auction. There were no orders for many of the ores, and since the hunting oils I had already listed failed to sell at the lowest MU, I felt I had no option but to TT and walk away from a MASSIVE mistake I should never have attempted. Mental note to self: Would need a good 5K peds to build enough decent size stacks to hopefully sell doing mining planet side.

Yesterday hunting on Calypso, 877 ped SME (ammo) all-in hunt with Mindforce with unlimited chips and I have over 300K skills (and one of the top uber MF'ers in game), 1 x 58 ped global THATS ALL, switched between big ambul south of ashi, then moved onto hog at TI see if those mobs returning had some loot, then last 300 ammo or so moved to Rex at Saba. Bear in mind my latest deposit is not even a week old, and not even been online full time.

Clearly the system had set me to loss because I’m regular depositor, and someone has to pay right.

I’d like to know how many noobs running 877 peds of ammo on one run would have given a BIG F*** YOU to the game if they did a run like that and ended with 300+ ped loss. My bet is ‘ALL OF THEM’.

So please, if you’re not pumping in the peds, it’s not even close enough to even compare apples and oranges, and the bullshit 90%.

On the plus side good news for new starters that want to use the game to socialise and not interact that much, then sure you can be in game for hardly any peds at all.

Rick

LOL I should have made my post a bit clearer, that's my fault. The 25 usd depo was back in 2007 till 2009. My apologies for not clarifying that.

I started in 2006 with no depo for 1 half year then made my first one deposit of 1000 usd.
That was way too soon in my EU life for that much money. I then did the 25 usd depo for 2 year stint.
In 2009 I did a 2000 usd depo and bought all my base gear for my EU life. This included hunting, mining,
and a little bit of crafting. It has served me very well in those years. In 2011 I did another 25 usd depo and made it last until 2012, which I had a profit of approximately 450 ped. Then I just made a resent depo of 85 usd for the last Husk event. I still have most of those peds left. I stopped actively playing on February 20th, the day my little Naomi was born.
As for the tracker, it missed a few of my nice globals I had on the Things during the MS event ND was running.
It also missed a few I had on Cyrene, and of course all the ones I had before the tracker, including a nice
968 pedder on a Molisk Scavenger. All in all though, I haven't really ever had that many globals, but I
really didn't need them as my average return was 90%. With markup, I was in the 101% to 115% range most months.
This is what I was trying to get at in my post. 90% is a decent return as the rest is from the markup of items
you make along the way. Also I'm curious, what the difference is if I`m not pumping in thousands of peds every month, compared to people who are. If they are still getting their 90%, the markup should cover the rest. Unless, I am missing something.
Either way, I had loads of fun in my 2 years of only one deposit. Met loads of new people. Went on loads of hunts. Mined a lot. Did some crafting. On average in my EU life, I spent approximately 6 hours a day for 6 plus years. I didn't just sit around and socialize with everyone. I spent my time wisely and sold my loot for markup every time. I didn't just TT all my stuff. Although it is ok to, as long as you have no problems depositing more often. It's how this game survives. Here I am telling you, someone who does understand the game, something you already know.
Thank you for picking my post to discuss. I find your insight and other posts to be informative and funny. (in a good way)
Good luck and have fun! P.S. Sorry for the no breaks in between the lines, IE 10 doesn`t allow me to use my enter key on PCF..

 

[Rutabaga]

Slot Machines have fixed return.
You suggesting that Slot Machines are not gambling?

*sigh*

The difference is that in EU, you are GUARANTEED a certain tt return in the long run, whereas in a casino....

Oh, nevermind. Here - have some more sliders

R.I.P. Billy Mays. You could sell ice to an eskimo...

 

[Thedarksnw]

In slots you are guaranteed a fixed return too...just cycle few million USD. As for this game being so skill-economy-planning-based and not gambling here is an example. Two players do exact same thing but first guy gets lucky and loots something worth x2 his bankroll. Second player has a downstreak for a month and loses 1/3 of his bankroll. Now do you think these two players will be on same level on their next month of playing? If they don't deposit do you think second player ever catch up with first one if they spend same amount of time in game?

 

[zeusrocktropian]

In slots you are guaranteed a fixed return too...just cycle few million USD. As for this game being so skill-economy-planning-based and not gambling here is an example. Two players do exact same thing but first guy gets lucky and loots something worth x2 his bankroll. Second player has a downstreak for a month and loses 1/3 of his bankroll. Now do you think these two players will be on same level on their next month of playing? If they don't deposit do you think second player ever catch up with first one if they spend same amount of time in game?

How do you sell what u get from the freakin' slots machines? like skills, loots?
Stop comparing this game with a slot machine.

As for your example, if any of those players don't have enough to cycle, they shouldn't do that.

 

[Bluebard]

This thread has gone way out of control and beyond the scope of the OP. A moderator needs to close it. It has once again fallen into the hands of those who don't understand the mathematics of the game (percentages, law of large numbers, etc.)

I agree with the OP, the old mining loot system was much better than what we have now. At least then, we had some reason to stay awake during the process, not knowing what was going to happen. Now it is just extremely predictable and boring.