Response on Bad Loot and my MA tracked 91% Returns

Alukat123

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You put me on ignore because it was easier than providing any sort of data to back up your claim.

Your first post is the same, not providing data, yet for some reason you can provide the tt in and tt return that gives you a 94.33% return.... which contradicts your claim. This has been the same thing in ALL of your posts throughout different threads. Eveytime someone has asked you for specific data, what you craft, bp's used, skill levels and everything else that would be relevant to work out the potential issue.

So here, i have 594K clicks and 114% return for 2018. System working as intended....no more to see here folks.
Do you really think i would make screenshots or a new chart whenever i do a single click, so that i can provide data for every single string of clicks i have done? Do you really expect me to have over 700000 excel charts or tabs in a single one? don't be ridiculous.

oh and btw, the tt of that 390k clicks should be in some of the older posts, when it still was fresh. And no, i'm not going through all my older posts, just because you troll claim i would be lying. why should the TT matter anyway?

So just because you don't believe others, you make shit up, gj.

Edit: if 114% return at 594k clicks is what is intended, then it's not working properly, i didn't get the 114% return. The sytem is broken!
 
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Evey

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I think the point is made when we get an official response in this thread by MA on their view of Loot 2.0 and where it is at currently and plans for the future. I also don't think that is asking for too much on a thread that has this many views on a topic that is so important for people that invest a lot of time and money. I also think the point is made when loot improves back to where it once was.

I know these thread can be difficult to pop in and say hi but it is welcomed and the community would love it.

It's okay to have constructive discussion about this game and point out when it isn't behaving correctly. I think any gaming company welcomes that. I think this thread has been helpful and hope something happens. :yup: I hope this game has many more awesome years to come.
It's funny you're still asking for an official response on a topic they said they are not discussing while you're one of the very few that actually did got an official response on the matter... ;)
 

Geralt

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Uhh... I really enjoy my break from EU too, discovered how much other cool stuff I can do and promised not to meddle anymore because I believe such talking like here will change nothing but I feel urge to explain you something... again and again and again...

MA is a company with 40+ people on board located in one of the most expensive (cost of living and doing business) countries in the world. Ok we know that, I had to pay 10 euro for a small beer in a bar in Stockholm. If you live in Nordic country or ever been there or haven't slept for the last 50 years you know that. But how much do they exactly need to stay alive. Let's do quick approximate calculation:

Salary range in Gotheborg (source: salaryexplorer) is from 62k SEK to 519k SEK a year including everyone. Average is 122k. Let's say, on average, MA as a tech company pays about 2200 USD to employee (approx 260k SEK a year.)

Payroll cost is then approx 95,000 USD a month. Excluding all bonuses, gifts, benefits etc.

Cost of office rent (source: statista.com, 2018 data) in Sweden was 658 euro per square meter per year. How big can be MA office? Lets say 5 square meters per employee of work space, 20 square meters for kitchen, 20 for bathroom and 25 for two small meeting rooms. 10 for lockers etc. This 290 sqare meters. About 190k euro per year or approx 206k USD per year/ 17k USD per month.

Payroll plus office is already 112k USD a month. Let's say the cost of programs and licences MA employees work on is 750USD a year per capita. That is approx 2700 USD.

Let's say that costs of electricity, yearly financial audit, bonuses, new office assets, coffee and tee, cleaning, heating, air condition, office maintenance, water etc. I about 100 USD per employee a month. Again, very conservative calculation. This is another 4300 USD.

IN TOTAL we have 95k + 17k + 2,7k + 4,3k = 119,000 USD a month. No profit for company or shareholders. Only basic non-flexible costs. There are of course also financial costs like loss on currency exchanges, comissions, interests etc. I cannot really estimate without checking their financial statement.

So you have to sponsor 119k USD monthy only for non-flexible fixed costs, some financial costs and of course company to be alive need to make some profit for their shareholders.

In reality those costs are problably 2x higher than my calculation. And in addition MA and its board of directors are extremely greedy. This is what you do! You must sponsor them a nice vacation, new furniture, eco car and fancy clothes. 119k a month is noth enough for that, I guess minimum to keep MA alive is to cover about 250-300k USD of cost. A month!

So what are you moaning about? Bad loot? Are you crazy? Did you really believe you could outsmart OWNERS of this platofm who SET UP THE RULES?

Do you want to make money? Get a job.
You don't want to loose money? Stop playing EU.

Period!
 

messi91

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Do you want to make money? Get a job.
You don't want to loose money? Stop playing EU.

Period!
I wish someone would have told me that back in 2013 when I registered.
:)
 

Alukat123

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@Geralt, MA will still get as much, most likely even more, money than they do now if they increase the tt-returns/reduce the volatility.

Here's why:
- players will play more, which means they spend as much as they do now
- players will move to higher stuff, which means they spend as much as they do now
- old players may come back, a higher percentage of new players will stay

your argument is flawed, because you expect the players to do everything exactly like they are now when MA ups the tt-returns/reduce the volatility.
 

wizz

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I wish someone would have told me that back in 2013 when I registered.
:)
Wouldn't have mattered.
Most what's written applies to mere mortals and not to immortal godlike players like you.
Normal rules don't apply to you.
 

lilmoo

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Been playing for 10+ years and have two ideas that perhaps could be refined.

Loot: I think MA does the best they can but there is a fine line between the percents, the difference between MA making money and losing money. If they could I think MA would love to control this down to 1 or 2 percent.

The biggest obstacle to doing this is resalers. I know...I know. The possible way around this problem is to limit the amount one sells to the amount one hunts/mines/crafts. In other word if one doesn't hunt/mine /craft for 10K peds (or lost, edit) then that person could not sell materials over 10k peds.

Next is skills, Not sure if MA would want to make skills more valuable and fix the mayhem cat, skill sell problem, but say they made a new list of skills like item find, reload speed etc and the only way to get them was to turn in current skills.

Such as a 100 ped handgun skill chip would increase your item find by 0.1 when turned in to the attribute like NPC.
 
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lilmoo

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Almost every station I go to the same people are there, the traders. They are the 5%+ you lose to, they are the drain of the game. They produce nothing but withdraw more then almost every active player.

You see them at every outpost. Never hunting, never mining, never crafting.

And some wonder why.. the game has not succeeded more then it has.
 
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Slyk

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Almost every station I go to the same people are there, the traders. They are the 5%+ you lose to, they are the drain of the game. They produce nothing but withdraw more then almost every active player.

You see them at every outpost. Never hunting, never mining, never crafting.

And some wonder why.. the game has not succeeded more then it has.
Correct. Needs more characters.
 

Zitti

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Game would be more newbie friendly if they did away or change the auction fees. Those with small budgets have little chance of enjoying the game without give away the little MU they earned to traders or TT in order to keep cycling.
 

SoberPhil

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Game would be more newbie friendly if they did away or change the auction fees. Those with small budgets have little chance of enjoying the game without give away the little MU they earned to traders or TT in order to keep cycling.
this is true but there's several buts here. the mu on loot that new players can get is so small that it makes no difference anyway. plus imagine how many pages of auction we would have in this case, this may cause new lags in the auction system.
 
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It's the perfect trap. Progression and character improvement in this game psychologically makes you think you're getting better and improving your chances, but all you're doing is upping your bet, and by then, you're hooked (at least for a little while).

And improving your chances for what? 99% TT returns... I mean, really when you think about it, it's quite funny.

The sooner you realize you cannot control anything in this game, the better. That is.... if you're playing MA's game. The only people doing okay here are the ones not playing by MA's rules (traders, etc.)
Wow best comment so far !
Off course game is addictive ! Char progression is rly slow but its there too ;D
So i play this game a lot last year or so (120hp to 230 hp 30 lvl hit to 80 lvl hit etc) and i did depo a lot but mostly to buy gear ofc. I have something like 3000+ globals with best loot still 1700 ped ( like 10 days ago :)
1st huge mistake i did upping the dps without upping the bank roll
2nd huge mistake hunt random mobs for random amount of time that drops nothing with MU
3rd VERY HUGE mistake..thinking that loot 2.0 weapons will magicaly change my overall return :laugh:
4th big mistake rushing to buy gear for my self at a price that makes me loose ped selling it later
5th mistake i almost never did hunting in Taxed areas
6th SUPER HUGE mistake ..not always having bank roll to keep 102-105%MU items.
7th big mistake.... You can NOT force loot ! Shit is weave based...comes n goes

I am sick of this 90% tt return BS...even 97% is very bad when I cycle 15k per day ! I have over 15 years background playing all kinds of mmos and i know how to trade very well....too well if i start rly putting max efforts but i rarely do that. I also know how risky trading can be if u have no clue that you are doing ! So i decided its time to Learning the prices on most common gear and more important learn the trends and predict them and this investment is starting to pay off from time to time very nicely.
The more you hunt the more ped you goona loose this is the truth ! MU is too small at the moment to cover you looses ...what actually helps A LOT are those silent 500-1500 ped Hofs trading and there are tons of deals to grab if u keep your eyes open and you mind sharp !
Bottom line ped cycled 1.2m+(might be more) Most of the time i was using 80%eff/3.3dpp+ weapons (lr 40 fen i grind 6 months+) constantly loosing ped on a short/medium and long term and i still do lol
Starting point : looter proff. lvl ZERO... atm 51 animal 41 amutant 30 robots(i dont hunt robots)
Ped lost during all this time is around 15k +-2k (i got rare loot 2-3 rings for total value 8k ped)
My Overall return 98%+ or so but this include all activities.. bad trades good trades(lot more) , hunting mobs with ZERO MU , overextending bad runs into a rly bad runs , loosing 3-5k ped x4 times last Mayhems , playing with L weapons LUL (btw this is around 150-200 ped loost per day vs UL weapon with let say 75 dps or so), using UNMAXED weapons for a good amount of time, using enchancers almost all of the time + mayhem amps and so on and so on :rolleyes:

Anyway i still think a good setup combined high looter skills(65-70+) and proper bank roll + LOTS of time and dedication + some trading skills (the tricky part...i find it boring at a time but its a must if u want to break even) you can play this game for FREE ..just find out that u are best at and exploit it !
The bad part playing this "game" is that you need a HUGE money investment in gear and tons of ped cycled to up your looter prof witch i think is very very ugly nerf from MA that they did with that loot 2.0 BS . What they actually did is adding 2 loot penalties that didnt existed before in form og 0-7% looter prof penalty and another 0-7% from weapon efficency . I can buy 80-90% eff weapon but i really cant chip in high lvl looter skills Kappa !

p.s. bascially if i got lucky to open one good ring (ares perefct is not bad at all but 6k is not 25k) in that 4-5k boxes i opened i would be even and + small profit !
p.s.s. i dont count the skills gain and some of my skilll definitely worth something !
 
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Shamshe

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5th mistake i almost never did hunting in Taxed areas
how is this a mistake? not paying the 5% tax is always good imo, and as far as I know the loot is still the same on the same mob taxed or not taxed. I almost hunt exclusivly in non taxed areas and my returns are much better then when I go hunt in LA's
 

atomicstorm

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how is this a mistake? not paying the 5% tax is always good imo, and as far as I know the loot is still the same on the same mob taxed or not taxed. I almost hunt exclusivly in non taxed areas and my returns are much better then when I go hunt in LA's
Traditionally markup is better in both opportunities and overall % in taxed areas (namely places like moon/aud etc) than not. It is both part by design and because of less people cycling in those places to drain the markup... because let's face it.. the reason why markup is low is because of hunters grinding markup into oblivion on anything. It outpaces demand and that is also because demand for hunting materials is not great - although improved with gizmos.
 

KayaB

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You are so funny with your return % and all.
Fact is the market has been dead for years.

Players could survive with poor % returns if the market was alive and active.
It's them who killed it tho, because some people were making money too easily because of player vs player interactions.

Now, what's the point of playing a mmo, and a real cash one, if player interactions ( aka sources of profit) are reduced to minimum ?

They did everything to limit the player chances of profits.
That's all, it s not about TT returns,skill, or anything, it s just they sat down on the "real cash economy"
They have the real cash, and we don't have any economy.
Of course the natural process cause economy to become smaller in terms of opportunity and less profitable over time, but they accelerated this process beyond measure.

And i also do want to point out that PEDs are not dollars. Dollars are gone as soon as you deposit.
 

Alukat123

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That's all, it s not about TT returns,skill, or anything, it s just they sat down on the "real cash economy"
You have 100k PED turnover , get 10k PED MU, 90% TT-return vs. 100k PED turnover with 10k PED MU and 95% return vs. 100k PED turnover with 10k PED MU and 85% return...... why do people claim that tt-return would not matter? it has a big impact...
 

Evey

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You are so funny with your return % and all.
Fact is the market has been dead for years.

Players could survive with poor % returns if the market was alive and active.
Funny you say that because I'm having a much easier time to survive nowadays than ever in the past. Survive short term because med term it's quite some profit. I regret not having more time to craft and mine too, because those too seem very profitable.... ofc, it's not for everyone and you must do the right things. And ofc it's gotten more challenging because a lot of players are doing the right thing and that means an active economy. But it's still easy for those able to learn and adapt. Yeah there are a lot of gamblers in the game and if u remove the ep4 they will gamble on something else. If you remove the ep4, they will gamble on amps, or FOMA level 13, 12, or hunting with swines etc. You can gamble on anything but and the gamblers are very few compared to the players that try to survive and profit.
Or you can believe the noobs @ cancerplanetsforum who believe this is 100% casino and we're all gamblers just because they played it as a casino and were never able to grasp the most basic concepts in this game
 

Thorns Rose

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Ok, I have been thinking about this for few days.

If you play this game and make money and withdraw, I understand.
I have seen many who take Game Ped and recycle it. Never withdrawing it.
So, if that is case what separates you from any other game that is hunting/mining/space etc? Swirlies?

You are just cycling the same PED or think you are in ANY hunting game but without the pay off of swirlies. If you are waiting for an affirmation of a game mechanic or content..Move on. I seriously think there is more to life.

PubG you can hunt and shoot etc..You guys regurgitate your investments to a virtual game ..same as any other. So, Why do you complain..Move!
Stop complaining and realize...You are the consumer and up to YOU to decide.


I may remind you of the Hangars investment years ago. ;)
 
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yeeck

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What's your GOAL in Entropia ?
PS : I just use your quote for display.

Majority, everyone is here to win some $$$ or to lose $$$.
The only real cash economy MMO that still active and on-going.
It's really doesn't matter, you are hunting. mining, crafting or trading, just be prepare to lose more than you are gaining.
 

Spacejanitor

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