Second Avatar issues, and what can we do about it... ???

[mastermesh]

Per PM request from John Capital I am starting this thread. It is, at least in part, an extension of the discussion that was in the closed thread over at

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...d-and-banned&p=2592845&viewfull=1#post2592845

Officially, we all know that having a second avatar in game is against the rules... However it seems that some do it anyways. I cannot prove or disprove this completely, nor is it really my place to do that, but some of the threads I was starting to link to in the posting listed above show some examples of where this sort of thing might be happening, or has happened in the past. I only base my opinions on what I've read in the forums, society websites, and other info that's been put out in the public... at least for the most part.

To me, the issue is a BIG one... in part because before I started participating in Entropia Universe, I participated/still participate in Diablo II. DII has tons of spambots and junk like that in it nowadays... I DON'T WANT TO SEE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE DE-VOLVE IN TO THAT MESS. It's also a big issue because games like DII allow, or even encourage the use of multiple characters/avatars for a number of different reasons... EU is different because it's classless. However, people new to the community may not understand that, and definitely won't understand why they have to pay to transfer their avatar between servers on different planets, so likely will try to find way to get around that costs, possibly by making multiple avatars on multiple planets...

I suspect the reason MA and/or any planet partner including FPC has not started to be more strict about that is because there's no way to really identify who is using a second avatar as sometimes more then one individual uses the same IP, one player might talk his siblings/parents/grandparents, etc. in to letting him/her use their name to make second avatars, etc., it's easy to get multiple email accounts, one credit/debit card might be used to do deposits to multiple accounts sometimes when relatives are using the same card to deposit, etc.

In my opinion, discussed in some various other threads, some of which were closed and others which might not have been, and that I might re-emphasize here, the adviser program seems to indirectly encourage this sort of thing on some level because as it is now, the advisers have an avatar in the gate and another on the main part of Calypso and can be logged in to both at the same time. That, in my opinion, is giving the individuals involved in the adviser program a taste of what it might be like to "be on two planets at once" as the Gate is a mini-planet sort of, and also is showing new people entering the game that some folks are able to do that, so they might try to eventually emulate such activity and make two avatars, share an avatar with others, or whatever. In my opinion, this issue is only going to get bigger as the virtual universe continues to grow and new planet partners are introduced in to the system because more more planets, all of which are in direct competition for avatars, are going to be temptations to new folks (or maybe even old ones too) to make more avatars to be on more then one planet at once...

The main reason I'm posting this thread here is not really to criticize the adviser program so much as to ask the community in general, what steps do you think MA, FPC, planet partners, and even us folks in the community can do to help lower the ability of people to be able to use multiple avatars? IP checking might work on some level, but not really since some can spoof IPs, and/or multiple people in the same community (school, family, etc.) might be sharing the same IP or a similar IP address. Gold cards do help with security, but they are not "required" and even if they were it would not keep people from sharing or passing around a gold card as some have done in the past for various reason...

What can be done? Technically, should some new system be created to help with this sort of issue? I suspect that the issue will grow worse over time as new planets come in to being (unless travel fees between planets is eliminated, which I don't see happening)

Can anything be done? Should anything be done? As mentioned in the link above this issue is an ongoing one that has been going on a long time.

A few things that I think should be done:
- FPC should eventually alter the adviser program to let the advisers only be logged in one avatar, ultimately doing away with the need for second avatar in the Gate since the advisers could TP there themselves.

- Have MA and FPC crack down on some of the "known" shared avatar accounts -- see the link above for some places which might be suitable places to start investigations...

- start checking which avatars are coming in on shared IP addresses... and watching if the avatars in those cases are interacting with one another in trades, auctions, etc., possibly manipulating the markets. Similarly, watch to see if they are on the same planets/astroids as it seems that one of the main reasons someone would want a second avatar would be to avoid interplanetary travel fees.

- remove "founding" members listings in the society terminal when the avatar in question listed there is/was "known" to be second avatar because this sort of thing gives an impression to new participants/society recruits that it's ok to have a second avatar because the "founding fathers" did it, and look at that, their name is in the terminal now for all to see... in order to get rid of the "If they can do it why shouldn't we be able to?" mentality. In the far flung past some individuals may have created multiple avatars and made each of those the founder of a society to create "multi-society societies", where one person was behind multiple avatars in charge of multiple societies, etc...

Perhaps the entire society system can be altered to change the reasons that some of those individuals did that in the first place (maybe increase the max number of people allowed in friend list, in a society, etc.)

- investigate multiple avatars that have deposits tied to the same debit or credit card, and watch activity on those accounts to see if they are doing things that might indicate that the individual avatars involved might be doing things such as trading between themselves in auction to manipulate market prices, etc.

- change the Banking system so that the bankers don't have multiple avatars (new folks in the game might not understand why Neverdie's name isn't on the estate terminal at the Bank, etc.) Use of multiple avatars in cases like this and the adviser system seem to put off a bad message that some folks are special and above the "rules" that apply to everyone else, which seems to lead to division in the community instead of cohesion, and away from the idea that "all avatars are created equal"

- create a "free ride" system that would allow ALL avatars the ability to TP to ANY TP in the entire Virtual Universe ONCE per month for absolutely free. This would allow avatars that want to not deposit and only sweat forever the ability to explore different planets then the one they were "born" on. It'd also allow lower cost of playing for estate owners that have estates on multiple planets as each estate needs to have it's monthly fees paid, and that can only be done by accessing the estate terminal for each estate, on whichever planet that estate is located on by physically going there... A nice addition to this little idea might be to give those that own estates on different planet the "free pass" once a month for EVERY planet they own an estate on. Right now that might not mean much, but eventually, if there is say, 5-20 planets or more that exist, this would definitely be something I think the community would love to have.

Can you come up with other suggestions? Is it a pointless effort because people will always find ways around the system, meaning the RCE is not really as "safe" as the general populace perceives it to be? What can we do?

 

[Immortal]

I have suggested to MA/fpc on many occasions that they make auction slots available based on your avatar's attributes. The majority of multiple avatars are created to either avoid deserved prejudice, or because 30 auction slots is not enough. My suggestion would fix these issues.

A further foreseen issue is that some people wish to be able to play and not have all their time tied up sitting on auction - whether they want to be off the planet (avoid listing and/or travel fees) or elsewhere (mining, while the batch of 100 amps they just crafted are selling)

 

[Serica]

... one credit/debit card might be used to do deposits to multiple accounts sometimes when relatives are using the same card to deposit, etc. ...

No you cant, see the support FAQ on depositing using credit cards

Can I deposit into several accounts from the same credit card?

It is not possible to use the same credit card to deposit into several accounts. Once registered the card can only be used to deposit into the account to which it was first registered. This is a security measure required to prevent credit card fraud.

 

[Fishface]

The situation with the Community Advisers is only temporary. Eventually, there will be a program in place to allow certain ava's the ability to go to and from the gateway. RIght now there is no such ability possible.
That's why the program was made to start with. To work around the fact that they cannot yet allow just certain people to come and go.

My understanding is that that ability will come with the Mentoring VU, which is not yet.

I understand that you are not criticizing the Community Adviser program. But if you think it is going to "give us a taste of having two ava's", please understand that we are not allowed to "play" on the other ava. We cannot skill, we are not allowed to trade with any player, etc. There is no TT and no Auction on the gateway. All we do is answer questions and explain things to new players.

As far as the rest of the post, I agree. I think there should be a lot stronger enforcement of the rules forbidding multiple avatars, as this does give an unfair advantage to those who cheat.

-fish

 

[kosmos]

@op but I don't agree the advisor program is breaking something in game.

The majority of multiple avatars are created to either avoid deserved prejudice, or because 30 auction slots is not enough. My suggestion would fix these issues.

I would like to see ma enact a way for people to do bulk auctions. For example a armor set as one auction, armor plates as one auction, so on and so forth. This would aliviate alot of auction woes. Imagine doing a bulk auction for amps (most people buy 3 to 4 at a time). Most 2nd avatars would be gone over night.

 

[Alice]

that the second avatars are a problem is undeniable
why else would we have what, 1 million accounts?

back in the days with the sweat cap, sweater reached the sweat cap->makes new ava to get around
god knows how many ppl used fap skilling second ava bots to skill evade as well
who knows who is using second avatars to fap their hunting alter ego
i bet there were some new second avas during the sweating exploit just recently as well
or who made a second avatar to see rocktopia as a newer example
market manipulating and that kind of thing would be another issue

that this kind of irregularity hurts the honest player more or less, for example pedwise is also sure

and yes, it is bad, it is against eula, but it is hard to really prove
i don't think necessarily they have the manpower to track that kind of stuff down all the time though

as to this

- FPC should eventually alter the adviser program to let the advisers only be logged in one avatar, ultimately doing away with the need for second avatar in the Gate since the advisers could TP there themselves.

as community adviser let me say this:
totally for it
let me use my real avatar to get up and down and i am a happy camper, i seriously don't care about that,
if i could go up by myself i would

guess the only way it could be possible is some manual moving from planet to gateway and back from some FPC or MA guy
but i seriously doubt it would be of much use to have some guy wait 24/7 at the phone/chat or whatever so he can move us up and down as we want to go
but if you like to have events later and taming later, why not send some FPC or MA army just for us little bunch of ppl to move up and down

i may add that we got some rules for those gateway avatars, "don't trade", "don't teleport down", also "don't sweat" or "use time up there for skilling evade" and that kind of stuff
basically we are just allowed to chat
there is no trade terminal, no soc terminal, no auction, even if there was, what could we do?
hunt puny mobs, we can do that at swamp camp,
get in our own socs so we can chat with our soc friends at least - that would be seriously bad, huh
trade the amazingly special (lol) gateway loot down to the planet?

so what could we possibly do at the gateway? tell them nonsense? maybe, but i doubt pretty much we will, we did that stuff for years, last guide program you had basically noone at the NAZ except a visitor here and there who mostly went shortly after again; means especially us "old" guides were already been pretty isolated and we were chosen again, so i figure we did our job good
tell them to join our socs?
several of us dont even have a soc and the others dont recruit that easily

i would also like to add that i know most of the current guides, either from years before at the NAZ and/or guide program and/or otherwise ingame
in my opinion, that this is one of the most thrustworthy bunch of people i know
do they defend what they are doing and see that attacked, you can bet they will, but that doesn't mean you can't trust them

also, we were chosen for this, how, i don't know, when neither, but i think at least some people at FPC trust us that we behave and help newbies there and don't use those avatars for some evil deeds

to the general "this might encourage them"
seriously?
after sweat cap years ago, evade bot skilling since years, second avas fapping real avatars, people creating second accounts on RT, people creating second accounts for market manipulation since years and whatnot
we little bunch of advisers on the gateway will encourage them to create second avatars?
but for the fun of it, lets say this would be the case, which i don't think it is
going further with that example thing, they could get the hang of creating avatars to be at another place
like the gateway, where they can't do that much really what they can't do at the planet or even create avatars on other planets (as the adviser avatar is basically on another planet for that topic)
ofc the adviser avatar would do that, not the 40 ped fee to the planet and 40 back

i hardly doubt that this adviser program will have a influence, especially no serious influence on the second avatar creation here
unless ofc, some people take this post as "i gonna disprove you" invitation and start creating second avas like mad now

 

[Wody]

Mastermesh, again, we are not allowed to have 2nd avatars. We get the priviledge of using FPC owned accounts, which we are allowed to choose details for, and for which we are allowed to name, customize their avatar-looks and such. Please stay with the facts.

 

[ReadBird]

I Remember old days when it was against the rules to autocraft.
Hell, I remember when it was ok.

I was one of those in that days that still refused to use autoclickers. Suddently it was legal...
My friend got bpc without having to do it manually. I Still hasent got it.

The problem with multipel accounts is obvious....
A lot of the old players do it. That is why they are uber. (Not all)

Why not make a check on every IP that regularely play? Make it so that only one IP can get the ath or whatever.
If your mother/brother/sister, want to play then you really should tell MA beforehand...

I know it can be misused, but it is already. I dont really care if Player1 player2 player3 takes a big ath. There should be a automatic check to see if that IP had anything "strange" going on (Multipell ath's, ubers or globals, reasontly new account, and a bit of check if they have been flagged before (as in the community know that they are assholes)

It would be more easy to actually check if Rico (me) has a sister and a brother and a dog and a cat and a father, that actually plays entropia.

As it is now, everybody can get their brother/sister/dog/hamster to play.

Why not make it so that If my brother want to play.... Well I have been here since 2004. Let him fax his legatimitasion. If not, I pretty much ask for a deeper check myself...


Oh! this was really a thread about multiple avatars..
There is no secret that some oldtimers have more than one ava. I am so agreeing that if without a doubt we knowsomebody has 2 or more ava's... FUCK THEM!

(I dont really edit this post, i just want to say that I know my English is bad. Hope you ujnnderstand=

 

[Aio]

Heh, what exactly do you guys think a second avatar does?

Funnily enough, I've used one of mine to purchase a new gold card reader, as mine had broken and that was the easiest and fastest way to re-gain access to my primary account. In fact, I think I even told MA support that, back in 2007?

Honestly, I've had my primary account since 2001, a 2nd since at least 03-04, and I'm sure I've had more over that time. But I really don't see the problem with them - usually I just use mine to test out theories on loot or other such things.

I can't actually think of any exploit still possible via the use of multiple avatars. Oh and before you guys get all high-and-mighty over this, a seriously large proportion of people have them - usually left-overs from when there was no in-game storage and we had to keep heavy stuff on a second account.

 

[ranpha]

Ahhhhh my second avatar .. and it is an official second avatar even. Fully supported by MindArk and FPC.

Given to me because FPC trust me not to do anything stupid with it like scamming, trading , market manupaltion. Yet here is mastermesh again trying to troll the Community Adviser program. He is clearly targeting this Program for a reason I cant understand.

In the time that we are standing and helping newbies we detected as lot of second avatars and even avatars voilating the EULA/ToU with their names. Gosh seems we do a good job already.

Yet again You may start another flame thread by the moderators against the Community Advisers second avatars (whom are offical !!!!) . Even FPC owns mulitple second avatars dummy. Like the RX-units and the Wastelanders and several other used in events and to monitior several events players.

Are these then also so bad in your eyes mastermesh. Realy you are barking at the wrong tree.

Second avatars are by default forbidden. Only if MindArk /Planet Partner gives the okay then you could have an second one because you have a valid reason (like helping newbies at a place where your regular avatar cant come due to tech problems)

All in All this is Yet another Flame thread of mister mastermesh whom sank more deeply in my respect.

Word of Advice just drop the whole "I wanna attack teh COmmunity Adviser because I think they are so bad" act and just for godssake try playing the game for once.


Oh and Greeting from the Gateway

 

[Theren Strange]

There are more 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc etc accounts than primary ones. It's not the accounts that are the problem, it is the person controlling them.

 

[stupey]

I've come back to this thread 3 times now and still fail to see the point of it.I see no problem with the guides having two avas,thank goodness for Alice or I'd still be fumbling around.I have one ISP and two players (one inactive atm)not two avas.Do you want to shut everybody down that has more than one player in their home?And as far as creating an ava to avoid transport fees,why? It would be cheaper to pay the fees than to skill another ava,something I personally would not like to do.If you know of someone having two avas to scam or manipulate the auction you should just write a support case instead of getting everybody up in arms. Thats my two pecs.

 

[Xen]

Second avatars aren't really advantageous these days so it's pretty useless to worry about them.

There are storages on CP and CND now, autofapping costs more than hiring a fapper (except imp/mod, and most people with those don't want to risk it), it is not necessary to have two personal avatars for market manipulation, etc.

 

[billairboy]

Catching people with multiple avatar and useing them to sell items on the auction could not be that hard to track down. If an avatar constantly sells crafted items without doing any crafting himself and he always gets the items from the same crafter it is pretty obviosly what is going on. Makeing a software to analyze that kind if transfers can't be much work.

 

[Droops]

Officially, we all know that having a second avatar in game is against the rules

How about those with 3,4 or even more avatars, and believe me they do exist. (maybe more then we can think of )

Personally i dont have a problem with this However i do have a problem with it when it envolves scamming.
Scam a few lousy bucks from others, transfer the crap to the next ava and so on and so on.

Only the company who provides this "Service" can do something about THAT however this is not really in theyre interest because now they can flaunt with "1.000.000" accounts

And yet again the solution to this is to simple to be true

 

[JohnCapital]

I see I need to clarify some things.

Per PM request from John Capital I am starting this thread.

In full disclosure, what I said was: my reason for closing that thread was because you were bumping a 6 month old thread that wasn't quite talking about the situation you truly had an issue with. Yes I said if you wanted to open this discussion again, to please do so in a new thread. I did not personally have a problem with discussing the FPC-authorized 2nd ava issue, because clearly there's still some eduction that needs to be done. My problem was with your method.

Officially, we all know that having a second avatar in game is against the rules...

And that's where the big difference is, and what you are missing.

Those rules are meant to tie the players hands to keep us from cheating. They are NOT meant to tie MA/FPC's hands. We know darn well that a 2nd ava can be used as an advantage in certain situations, so MA long ago said, "nope. That's not something we want you folks doing."

However, a few situations occurred where the game owners (FPC in this case) saw where having officially sanctioned and created 2nd avas were the best solution they could come up with. Like the bank avas, for example.

This isn't new. MA long ago disallowed auto-clickers. (How well they were able to enforce that rule I'll discuss later on) However, later on, they essentially built auto-clickers into the game itself. (auto use tool, and auto mode for crafting) The rule didn't really change. They still don't want us using auto-clickers of our own, but we are allowed to use those that they supplied us. (which is great, because I think their ingame ones work best anyway. )

But, going back to 2nd avas, can you imagine the shit those with these FPC-authorized 2nd avas would be in if they are found abusing them?

Imagine if someone found Neverdie running around hunting, with his bank avatar behind him fapping away. CLEARLY an unauthorized use of that FPC-authorized avatar. Safe to say ND would have caught a bit of shit from Entropia's main office.

And that's the main point. These authorized 2nd avas are authorized for a single purpose only, and if those entrusted with them can't stay within the rules, then MA/FPC knows how to deal w/ them.

Plus, you've touched on an aspect of these authorized 2nds that you may not have realized.

I suspect the reason MA and/or any planet partner including FPC has not started to be more strict about that is because there's no way to really identify who is using a second avatar as sometimes more then one individual uses the same IP,...

Correct. It's a very touchy and tricky subject when MA/FPC/whoever has to decide who is actually using a 2nd ava and which one is simply the guy's wife. Especially since technically all player avas are allowed to do all activities: auction, hunt, fap, etc.

However, with these FPC-authorized avas, there is zero doubt about who they belong to, what the main ava is, and what that 2nd ava is and is not allowed to do.

And the very day FPC finds someone abused their privilege with one of those avas, that owner is in for a world of hurt, both from FPC, and quite likely from the player base as well.

So, as you see, these FPC-authorized avas are on absolutely NOT on the same level as player-made 2nd avas made specifically for cheating.

To me, the issue is a BIG one...

I can fully understand your worry and concern. That was the main reason I allowed you to open this thread, so that I (and others) can hopefully arrest your fears and concerns about this specific situation with FPC-authorized 2nd avas. I didn't want you thinking that the issue of 2nd avas was being squashed or censored. However, your concern currently is pointed at the avas that should be the least of your worries, not the most.

These game-master controlled situations are NOT the cases you should direct your attention and worry towards. As I show above, they are more safe than any player-made problem. It is those using player-made 2nds that you should be justly concerned about. Specifically made for the sole purpose of cheating (auction manipulation, etc.)

The main reason I'm posting this thread here is not really to criticize the adviser program so much as to ask the community in general, what steps do you think MA, FPC, planet partners, and even us folks in the community can do to help lower the ability of people to be able to use multiple avatars?

Can anything be done? Should anything be done?

Should players and MA/FPC work together to try to flush out 2nd avas used for cheating? Yes. However, there needs to be first some definitions of what "cheating" is. For example:

• Is it cheating when your "sister's ava" is always bidding on your stuff in auction in bid wars?
• Is it cheating when your "sister's ava" is selling the same 30 amps you are?
• Is it cheating when your "sister's ava" does nothing but follow you fappping you for hours?

Once specific situations of "cheating" is established and agreed upon, then player activity can be spot checked, if support is warned about specific players, and behind the scene investigations can occur.

That's about the best I can do. Hopefully Mastermesh, you can understand my POV. We do not disagree that player made 2nd avas made for cheating is a problem. But we do disagree that FPC-authorized avas are a problem.

 

[ranpha]

I see I need to clarify some things.

That's about the best I can do. Hopefully Mastermesh, you can understand my POV. We do not disagree that player made 2nd avas made for cheating is a problem. But we do disagree that FPC-authorized avas are a problem.

Well that solves that then. What JC is how I feel about it also.

 

[Aio]

Surely this thread can be summed up in two words: "Who cares"

Fuck, even letting 2nd avatars run around as fappers doesn't bother me - or are we going to start telling off those offering medical services?

 

[Aura Lily]

...

- change the Banking system so that the bankers don't have multiple avatars (new folks in the game might not understand why Neverdie's name isn't on the estate terminal at the Bank, etc.) Use of multiple avatars in cases like this and the adviser system seem to put off a bad message that some folks are special and above the "rules" that apply to everyone else, which seems to lead to division in the community instead of cohesion, and away from the idea that "all avatars are created equal"

...

More than one person uses the Anshe Bank Entropia avatar and she never leaves the bank grounds. We have a business to run and since only one avatar can hold the deed to the bank and operate the npc teller this must be allowed. I guess I don't understand why anyone would have issue with this.

~Lily

 

[mastermesh]

I guess I don't understand why anyone would have issue with this.

The problem with it is that multiple people have their hands in the puppets/shared avatars... With the banks it's not such a big deal, but still is a bit as it gives out the concept to non-bank owners that maybe they can do similar, when they are not really supposed to do that. Additionally, having your bank avatar at the bank and your other avatar on another planet lets you avoid the travel fee possibly... that ain't so for anyone else owning any other estate in game other then the bankowners. Perhaps MA should allow second "estate" avatars for all who own estates so they can be in two planets at once and not have to pay travel fees too?

It really boils down to individual avatars with one person behind them being somewhat similar to a sole entrepreneur in the real world, and all the shared avatars and individuals who are controlling more then one avatar being like a corporation or partnership in the real world...

IRL corporations and partnerships have different rules and laws that apply them then sole individuals trying to do a business have. In game, that doesn't seem to be the case so much... One person bidding on auctions and things like that automatically have a disadvantage over some avatar that has multiple people behind it because those shared avatars can literally be online more often when one of the people behind it is asleep, at work IRL, etc. They can have an unfair advantage in the amount they have deposited in to the pedcard as multiple people will have multiple real life incomes. IRL a corporation can "outlive" the person that started it. In game, since the ped is tied to the dollar, the same sort of issue(s) arise on some level as there are in the real life business world... If corporations are to be allowed in game, and it sounds like they may already be in game on some level with the banks at least, they should be available to the entire community, not just the few chosen -- assuming the old adage that all avatars are created equally is supposed to be something that anyone takes seriously.

 

[Serica]

Surely this thread can be summed up in two words: "Who cares"

Fuck, even letting 2nd avatars run around as fappers doesn't bother me - or are we going to start telling off those offering medical services?

I guess the people who dont use 2nd avas are the ones who care.

The ones that are financially disadvantaged by those who do create multiple accounts.

...

Honestly, I've had my primary account since 2001, a 2nd since at least 03-04, and I'm sure I've had more over that time. ...

As you've already stated that you use more than one account, I'm not at all surprised that you don't care.

 

[Aio]

I guess the people who dont use 2nd avas are the ones who care.

The ones that are financially disadvantaged by those who do create multiple accounts.



As you've already stated that you use more than one account, I'm not at all surprised that you don't care.

Provide me with proof that firstly my use of multiple avatars financially disadvantages you (this will be impossible, you know...) and secondly, that the use of any second avatar financially disadvantages you (RECENT examples please. I'm not talking about the 1000s of exploits you could do back in the day - and this shouldn't be used as a point of argument either; there were 10x as many exploits usable just as a single avatar).

 

[mastermesh]

We can discuss the issues all day long until we are blue in the face, but until something is actually done about the problems the problems remain, as do the exploits that having two avatars can give... Support tickets about this sort of issue are always vague since they don't want to release info about other avatars to anyone due to privacy issues, etc. ... but then they seem to not do anything and the activities continue. The problem is that if FPC and MA don't see the problem as a problem, they won't do anything about it. I have not personally seen the shared Synergen avatar walking around Omegaton lately, but it used to be in the area on occassion... does that mean the thing's be banned? I seriously doubt it, but there's no way to know -- which is where part of the problem lies. They can't tell anyone about what they are doing about the issue, so it's hard to know if they are doing anything or just shoving it all under the covers in the shadows and being silent about it in hopes that no one notices...

Provide me with proof that firstly my use of multiple avatars financially disadvantages you

If you have one avatar on Calypso, and one on Rocktropia, you automatically are saving peds with your two avatars through transport fees since those playing by the rules (expect maybe the bank owners) would have to pay the fees to go from planet a to planet b and back to planet a later. Folks with two illegal avatars are in both planets at the same time doing trades in two places at once.

 

[combo22]

I stopped crafting because of this issue, you can't really compete with this "uber" crafters when you have 1 avatar and they have 3-4 or even more.
MA supports monopoly, allowing this, I don't see any advantage for doing so, instead of one uber crafter who monopolize the market and withdraw good amounts of money by doing this, they could protect small crafters that will have much smaller chances to withdraw anything.
A very good action will be to overcharge the items sold by anyone but the avatar that crafted that thing.

 

[Xen]

I stopped crafting because of this issue, you can't really compete with this "uber" crafters when you have 1 avatar and they have 3-4 or even more.
MA supports monopoly, allowing this, I don't see any advantage for doing so, instead of one uber crafter who monopolize the market and withdraw good amounts of money by doing this, they could protect small crafters that will have much smaller chances to withdraw anything.
A very good action will be to overcharge the items sold by anyone but the avatar that crafted that thing.

Most uber crafters have shops (some with shopkeepers in them) where they can sell many items and don't need multiple avatars to "monopolize" the market. Not that a few of them don't have selling avatars...

Besides, the number of items you can list should be increased anyway, in which case it would be the same situation.

 

[Aio]

If you have one avatar on Calypso, and one on Rocktropia, you automatically are saving peds with your two avatars through transport fees since those playing by the rules (expect maybe the bank owners) would have to pay the fees to go from planet a to planet b and back to planet a later. Folks with two illegal avatars are in both planets at the same time doing trades in two places at once.

First off, I don't go to anything owned by the cock which is neverdie, so it's a moot point. Second, it seems to me you have this seemingly warped view that if you can sell in two places at once you're making some kind of exploitational profit...

How would one transfer peds or items between the two avatars without physically travelling with one avatar between the two? What you've done is create a completely fictional scenario, which no-one actually does, to back up your flawed argument.

So, still waiting for the proof that having 2 avatars is advantageous. Avoiding travelling fees is not one, as miners/hunters have to move their equipment (thus pay the fees with the movement avatar; let alone the fact that they have to skill up two avatars...... and traders would have to transfer peds, items to sell, etc etc etc. unless they use the auction to do so, thus paying fees).

I stopped crafting because of this issue, you can't really compete with this "uber" crafters when you have 1 avatar and they have 3-4 or even more.
MA supports monopoly, allowing this, I don't see any advantage for doing so, instead of one uber crafter who monopolize the market and withdraw good amounts of money by doing this, they could protect small crafters that will have much smaller chances to withdraw anything.
A very good action will be to overcharge the items sold by anyone but the avatar that crafted that thing.

wat.

Again, how does having 3-4 avatars help with crafting? Each individual avatar would have to be skilled, thus costing peds to skill up each avatar, at no actual gain to the owner.

The one case I assume you're alluding to is the NZR avatar - the reason that and the parent avatar make peds is due to both avatars having skills. NZR was bought due to ridiculously high crafting skills (even more so at the purchase time) and the fact that NZR is the only avatar to have a dante amp BP.

Should avatars be allowed to be sold between? I have no problem with it. NZR was transferred before the skillchips were implemented remember, so nowadays if a player wants to quit they can sell their skills off, rather than their avatars. But in the case of NZR, it's just similar to investing into an item, property, or skillchip.

The advantage doesn't come from having two avatars - how could it? It comes from having skills - no matter how many avatars you own, they need skills to make peds - and preferably a market niche like dante amps or high-level clothing.

It really does seem to me like people have got some strange made-up view on what a second avatar is...

-Crafting on 2 avatars at once is gonna cost you.... 2x as much. If you manage to make 2x profit aswell, then grattis - you've spent enough to have 2 high level crafters.
-Hunting on 2 avatars... yeah, no-one does this.
-Mining... ditto...
-Trading - really? "omg, he can stand in two places at once and make PROFITZZZ" sounds a little bitter to me.