Thank God for 10/10 maxed (L) guns WTF MA???

[Xzion]

Not even EF is entertaining me tonight i'm off to bed.

GN!

 

[py08jl]

One thing's for sure though: due to the way EU works, even if we had 99% hits when maxed, there would still be improbably high numbers of consecutive misses

its not just consecutive misses menace demonstrated, its consecutively consecutive misses (if I got my English correct) :/

 

[Xzion]

its not just consecutive misses menace demonstrated, its consecutively consecutive misses (if I got my English correct) :/

Even if its not, it would take a British person to understand what you just said

 

[Chrome]

Yes I have noticed this as well, but only since the "Miss" message is now appearing in chat. Previously, the misses were not advertised so it was not as apparent.

Maybe it would be in MA/FPC's best interest to un-advertise it again.

 

[Menace]

I'm surprised no-one put two and two together here from my second post.

1.) I'm missing shots like crazy
2.) I've lost BIG peds lately

Dmg/Pec is a direct reflection of the entire balance of the system. If your avatar is in a "low returns period" then chances are EVERYTHING will be lower.... well.... everything except skill gains which the system seems to dish out at higher values when money's being wasted at the end of the barrel and loot is total shits....

Menace

 

[Doer]

I'm surprised no-one put two and two together here from my second post.

1.) I'm missing shots like crazy
2.) I've lost BIG peds lately

Dmg/Pec is a direct reflection of the entire balance of the system. If your avatar is in a "low returns period" then chances are EVERYTHING will be lower.... well.... everything except skill gains which the system seems to dish out at higher values when money's being wasted at the end of the barrel and loot is total shits....

Menace

Skill-related misses average to the expected value over any reasonably long hunt. If you are getting misses without a Miss message then that could indeed be negatively impacting your results.

As someone earlier suggested, use Entropia Tracker monitor your hits and misses, and also use the decay on your gun (or an amp) to calculate the total shots. This will give you a count of:

• hits
• skill-related misses
• lag or user-related misses

If the skill-related misses are much more than 10% of the total of the first two, there's indeed something wrong. I'll bet you 20 PEDs, though, that if you do a hunt of over 5000 shots, you'll get an average of 9-12% skill-related misses with a maxed weapon, just like everyone else.

The last number is obviously going to depend on your actions and possibly network conditions. I'm still getting the hang of the autofire, so i blow a few extra rounds sometimes and my total user-error misses in a recent long hunt was 3.5%. I think that included a few times where i dozed off...

All of that said, i know that when things aren't going well, seeing all those yellow lines is really annoying. It helps (at least for me) to track the numbers and see that everything really does average out as expected.

 

[Chrome]

I'm surprised no-one put two and two together here from my second post.

1.) I'm missing shots like crazy
2.) I've lost BIG peds lately

#1 you can't change (miss % built into the platform).

#2 you can change (hunt chirpies instead).

 

[remontoire]

Nothing is short term in this game mate, its proven over and over again that your hitrate is around 90% in the long run. aka around 2-3k shots.

unless your hunts are very very small... this is not a problem for you.

chill...

For low levels, 4 consecutive misses can easily mean we die instead of killing a tougher mob that aggrod accidentaly. It will certainly mean taking more damage than intended. Short bursts of lots of misses are also in no way compensated for by getting multiple criticals, as these are much rarer.

 

[Mikass]

This joke of a company never ceases to amaze me.... KH400 which I maxed out FOREVER ago.... Nice hit rate eh?

Lemme guess.... DYNAMICS right? More like THEFT as far as I'm concerned!

This is old news. I knew for a long time that you can miss up to 5 times in a row with maxed gun. Before you just didn`t see it on screen and prolly didn`t notice or thought was lag or something.

 

[Mischief]

Still, at point blank you just don't miss!

If we could stand inside a barn in this game, fire against the walls and then count the hits, be assured there would be misses...
So yes, it's theft, nothing else.

 

[martinstids]

I realized that too. Hit rate is ~70%. I thought real cash ECONOMY means that with smart play you can earn some pure peds, but this is bullshit not economy game.... Its like a casino now and proffit goes to one player only with big ath or smt like that.... It sucks actually, thats why i dont play this game much...

 

[Sloe]

Doer, you seem to have it out for me lol, specifically trying to just shoot me down. I didn't claim any of it was set in stone, but for yrs it was accepted that hit rate was Hit rate = Hit ability * 1.25 + 80. Which on a maxed out gun would b pretty much what i was claiming, or am i doing math wrong here or imagining that article and the many posts about it over the past several yrs, maybe 3 or so, according to forums and entropedia. I was just following what i'd heard for yrs, pardon me if it's not up to ur flawless standards. Oh and fk you for seeming to just want to single me out to make urself feel better and smarter... I thought this was about hit rates sucking, not about proving you know more then the next guy, my bad.

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Page.aspx?page=Hit+rate


Seems there was a 'we'.... surprise surprise...

As for it not losing anyone ped.... That's pure bs, it makes for bigger swings which is not something we need more of, even if it's a 1-2 percent change. Even if it's unchanged. But i never ever saw 9 misses in a row before, and now i can regularly see 5-6 in a row, several time a day. When we talk about averaging it out it means one person may get a few more hits and another a few more misses and THAT run will b affected by it. I don't think EVERYONE likes to have to play the odds even more than we do already.

How about we stop assuming everyone is fking blind and imagining things, i'm quite an avid hunter and woulda easily seen repetitive 5-6 miss streaks on a daily basis with or without the miss message. I was always quite able to open my eyes, and notice if i fired a shot and if it logged any damage, ty. I wasn't born absolutely retarded and how do u know i wasn't specifically looking for it b4.

I am pushing for less misses overall, not just bringing it to what i believe it used to be. And nowhere did i state it coincided with the exact arrival of miss messages, i just never spoke about it cause how do u expect many people to notice it unless they were looking for it bk then, and frankly i never much was a forum person till recent. The misses add to gambling and i don't think that's a good move. They take away from skill and knowledge by adding extra randomness to even getting a CHANCE to loot.

Why is any miss ok at all would be my question. When u already have to put up with lag misses apparently and never mind the misses from when u happen to b standing in a spot that the system just doesn't like and u are firing somehow THROUGH a mob. Those aren't displayed and i notice them just fine, ty.

 

[Parlog]

i can second the ops experiences. My record of misses for a maxed un-L sib weapon is 6, it doesnt really differ from an old half-maxed unlimited weapon anymore.

 

[CeePee]

Those misses mean nothing, sure it's easy to whine when you see a lot of misses but after that you'll get long streaks with no misses at all.

I actually love it when there's massive miss streaks once in a while, it means there won't be MISS text coming to interfere with many other mobs. I also love when the shots miss before the mob even aggroes me, e.g. 2 first shots are MISS and after that all of the rest hit.

It evens out so stop whining about these very rare streaks.

 

[Franz Jaeger]

Parlog: That's one of the reasons I changed from (L) to UL.

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I've been shooting a LOT of rounds with my AS-129, and my missrecord's 6 misses in a row followd by like 1-2 hits and then miss again aso.
I think my hitrecord is more than 40 hits in a row...

According to Entropiatracker I (most days) have an 87-88% hitrate and I've got quite a bit left to 10/10.

Some days is worse, some is better, but it seems to fit my theory that you have ups & downs just like IRL. If it's not a huntingday it might be a craftingday or miningday.

 

[Ruhvus]

I got 7 misses in row with my 10/10 (L) gun. Totaly weird.

 

[mandu]

I may as well use the most un-eco UL weapon in-game.... probably would end up being the same dmg/pec!

Please do! and convince your friends to do it too!

 

[Hubert Zymp]

Wow. Lots of whining in this thread.

First, about the missing shots: I got a bit too many of those some weeks ago, and that really tried my patience, so okay . I tried two things: changing scopes and lasers (did not notice anything, so I stick to Bjornir, Seizzt 2000L and 2000L+ laser sights), and chipping in: Even if I have maxed out K400 since years, some of my hunting skills needed improvements (since I was mostly mining in the past and hunting low to mid level mobs): I chipped in a 11 PED chip in AIM (so went from 2K to 3k) and chipped in serendipity (went from 2k to 3.3k). Guess what? Less misses (at least no more of those 5 in a row misses). I didn't record it, but to me it seems obvious. I cannot tell if it's aim or serendipity that helped most, since I chipped in both at once, so. If other players noticed this, please say so.

Regarding the loot, mind those whinings, I have had nice runs in the past weeks. No HOFS, but many +10 to +25 peds, and a few globals up to 171 peds. And wonderfully few big losses. I have stuck to favourable mobs, so (drones and bristlehogs -laugh if you want-). I take the winnings, cut the losses, nothing fancy. If you're stuck to Trox and the like, there is nothing I can do for you (neither MA), just stop whining please, thank you, my ears are hurting.

 

[Cail]

That happens quite often, kinda very annoying now that you can see the missed shots in chat...

 

[Doer]

Doer, you seem to have it out for me lol, specifically trying to just shoot me down. I didn't claim any of it was set in stone, but for yrs it was accepted that hit rate was Hit rate = Hit ability * 1.25 + 80. Which on a maxed out gun would b pretty much what i was claiming, or am i doing math wrong here or imagining that article and the many posts about it over the past several yrs, maybe 3 or so, according to forums and entropedia. I was just following what i'd heard for yrs, pardon me if it's not up to ur flawless standards. Oh and fk you for seeming to just want to single me out to make urself feel better and smarter... I thought this was about hit rates sucking, not about proving you know more then the next guy, my bad.

http://www.entropiawiki.com/Page.aspx?page=Hit+rate

I'm only singling out what you said about the miss rate having changed because i don't think it has, and i (as always) am challenging statements that i believe are false. It's nothing personal, and i generally appreciate your contributions to discussions as being insightful. Perhaps the magnitude of the swings in missrate (the "dynamic" part) changed. It's really hard to tell because the Miss message makes for a subjectively different experience. I suspect nobody can objectively tell a difference.

Yes, Witte put up a formula for hit rate on Entropedia. Whether that reflects his own tests or was just a conventional wisdom i don't know, but all the discussions i've seen where the hit rate was actually measured came out lower than 7.5%. Did you test the hit rate pre VU10 and find it was 92.5% or even 92%?

Yes, the dynamic swings of all kinds create challenge in the game. Sudden series of crits by mobs, series of crits by our own guns, hunts with many globals, hunts with few globals, many misses, etc.: they lead to both good and bad times and increase the variety of the experience and the cost. My previous point still stands, though: this is true for everyone, so it's not increasing anyone's cost at the expense of others. It's a game of averages in spite of fluctuations.

I'm not a big fan of some of the extreme dynamics and have said so right in this thread. MA has made it so in the case of loot it's not so much a game of averages (if everyone hunted for infinite time it would be, but in mortal time scales the one who hits the ATH will end up better off), and i don't like that.

No need to be upset with me. I'm just trying to be objective about it in response to a lot of hysterics (not from you) in this thread.

 

[JohnCapital]

Still, at point blank you just don't miss!

​

Ok, we'll stick you in some padded armor, give you a handgun and place you nose-to-nose with an angry, wounded animal twice the size of a polar bear and we'll see how many of your shots hit.

Don't look for RL stats in a game folks. It's silly.

With a lower skilled weapon, you miss more. With a maxed weapon, you miss less, but you will always still miss a bit.

Frankly I'm glad we still miss a bit. That rush of wondering if my final shot will kill the mob before its next strike removes the last of my health is a game rush, and would remove much of the fun if I knew 100% of my shots would hit.

 

[Cani Ostro]

This post is a FAIL!

It is a classic case of assumption and not testing. Who cannot grab a screen of a chatbox looking like that. You just refuse to show the 20+ hits in a row when they show.

But why do we accept misses on MAXED weapons in first place?

Coz we can overMAX them?

I mean MAXED is top of the pops, can't get better, no?

So again, why do we accept as bendovercheapmoneycows misses with 10/10 at all?

 

[Hurrikane]

Thinking about this issue made me think of a few games of my gaming past, not MMORPG's, just plain old video games. One example would be Resident Evil 3: Nemesis. After spending a fair bit of time getting to the end, you get an unlock or two: one being unlimited ammo and a minigun.

This means you basically cannot die, you can slay things with superhuman power and you can breeze through the game like the hulk on crack.

It's fun for about 12 minutes, possibly 15.

Same goes for all the 'cheat codes' you can get for games; the frustration of not being able to complete them is removed, replaced by the futility of playing a game that cannot beat you.

If you are able to skill up to the point where every shot hits, or every shot hits full power, and nothing can kill you...... it's not even a game any more. It's experiencing the game as the programmer.

When I was newer to EU I used to wonder at the Ubers, who I imagined to be indestructible; how would they get any challenge, enjoyment or gaming experience from a game they had 'beaten'? Surely to reach the point of 'perfect' means trying another game is the only option. Realising that even Starman and Star get critted or miss shots made it seem far more sensible.

EU is designed to keep going. Game elements that make that pointless do not belong here.

We shouldn't be looking at skills as a way of beating the game, just a sign we're playing it well, and doing better than others. So of course there will be misses and low-damage hits, at any and all levels; and FPC will always bring in things that will continue to challenge everyone. In years to come we'll see Mobs that make Daspletor look like Daikiba. We'll see things nerfed and profit areas compromised. There has to be a challenge.

It's not a game you can win. It's a hobby you get better at.

Hurrikane

 

[Futurama]

The best part is that the OP still plays while stating he`s being robbed... Don`t take a single thing out of context... You had 6 mixes in a very short period, so you might get 4 mises on your next 80-90 shots...

 

[THANATOS]

The best part is that the OP still plays while stating he`s being robbed... Don`t take a single thing out of context... You had 6 mixes in a very short period, so you might get 4 mises on your next 80-90 shots...

I would still consider the 10% average missed shots as being robbed IMHO.

Think of it this way. 10% of MA/FPC income from hunting decay is from us not actually hitting anything.


It's exactly the same as going on a 400 ped hunting trip with a 100% hit rate, but firing off 40 peds worth of ammo into the air before you set off.

Not only do you lose that ammo, but you also lose the decay from that ammo too. Now add that to a hunt we go up to a mental amount of money lost.

Lets try an example....

A 400 ped apis hunt with a dante amp:

400 ped ammo = 4,000,000 ammo

4,000,000 ammo with an Apis+dante = 2,500 shots

2,500 shots @ 6.987 pec decay per shot = 174.68 ped decay

10% of those shots are misses = 17.47 lost in decay

Plus you lose the ammo of missed shots = 250 shots * 1600 ammo per shot = 400,000 ammo lost = 40 ped

So, missed shots have cost you 57.47 ped of your 400 ped hunt. Thats a 14.37% cost to your hunt without even hitting anything and thats before you take into account anything like armour decay from extra hits you recieve while you take longer killing the mobs you are hunting.

add that to a 4 or 5% taxed LA and is it any wonder why people are coming away with 70-80% returns on hunts?


BTW - this is technically not a moan - I moved back to eco hunting using an opalo SGA with a 101 amp and am doing VERY nicely with it, so really dont mind. Every now and then I treat myself to an expensive hunt with my as-147 and a cause to spice things up, but I expect to lose money on these and live with that. I am just trying to demostrate that IMO a 10% miss rate is an unacceptable level of cost to the average player.

Another way to look at it, is would you expect to pay $5.74 to go on a $40 hunt? and if you did, would you expect to profit?


(am in massive hurry, so apologies if math errrors - will fix when I get back if people want to highlight errors!)

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

Just wanted to share this, maybe I can contribute to the thread despite the fact that I'm a newbie.



Maxed Opalo, 300 aim.

 

[Charlie Gloom]

But why do we accept misses on MAXED weapons in first place?

Coz we can overMAX them?

I mean MAXED is top of the pops, can't get better, no?

So again, why do we accept as bendovercheapmoneycows misses with 10/10 at all?

I would like to refer you to this post as it explains it just as well if not better then I can https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/skills/187721-thank-god-10-10-maxed-l-guns-wtf-mindark-3.html#post2420478

 

[CeePee]

Just wanted to share this, maybe I can contribute to the thread despite the fact that I'm a newbie.



Maxed Opalo, 300 aim.

The OP pic is only like once per 50-100 PED ammo shot (H400), I get maybe 2 of those streaks in a 150 PED hunt. And I get really long streaks with 0 misses and all, streaks where mobs hit me all the time and streaks where I get 0 hits before the mob is dead. (Killed Feffoid Clan warlord without getting hit and took like 200 dmg total from a bandit).

Listen up, everyone of you whining! It evens up and there's a certain hit% for your shots (around 90%). It's worthless to whine about the stuff OP posted, it's better to have them in one place than scattered around with annoying misses. (Sure you get some misses now and then).

It's the average that matters, same in hunting returns, mining returns, crafting returns, hit rate, miss rate, dodge rate, evade..

EU is Dynamic!

 

[remontoire]

​

Ok, we'll stick you in some padded armor, give you a handgun and place you nose-to-nose with an angry, wounded animal twice the size of a polar bear and we'll see how many of your shots hit.

Given that you would be thrown about like a ragdoll, its a wonder if you actually do hit it more often than your fellow hunters If MA implemented a feature where your avatar would respond to the strength of the blows but hit 100% in point blank with a maxed gun, there would be no end to teh complaining, as nobody would like the resulting misses.

Don't look for RL stats in a game folks. It's silly.

With a lower skilled weapon, you miss more. With a maxed weapon, you miss less, but you will always still miss a bit.

Frankly I'm glad we still miss a bit. That rush of wondering if my final shot will kill the mob before its next strike removes the last of my health is a game rush, and would remove much of the fun if I knew 100% of my shots would hit.

I couldn't have said this better.

 

[DaveFoz]

As i have said before. can understand at range missing. that happens in real life even for the best shots.

But when you have the pistol/Rifle shoved down the mobs throat how can you miss.

I feel for the OP i really do