Time limited items

[billairboy]

Ome thing that i have been thinking about was the idea of a new type of limited items, "Time limited items. This "TL" items would be limited based on time and not the amount of use. For an example, if i loot a weapon that have a TL value of 180 days, i can use it like a normal UL weapon for 180 days, after that period of time it can not be repaired anymore.

This would be a good complement to the L items we have today and also "reward" players that plays many hours each day. It would also add to the possiblity to find nice stuff in the loot, but in the sametime they would put an limit on the "flooding" of UL items problem, because they could easy kill of the TL items drope rate and after a while the TL items "dies" out. With UL items it hard to get the items "out of the system", they tried with the tiering process, but they had to back out from that one.

 

[aridash]

i sort of like the idea. but depending on availablity, wouldnt this risk killing off any remaining MU value of UL items? non need to buy an imp fap, i can aquire a TL one for a few months, say over merry mayhem or WoF. maybe work as prizes, particularly for events.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Would you be able to use the remaining TT after timeout?

Would you be able to "activate" the timer or would it start the second it was looted? If it starts when looted, what would happen if you looted one and then could not log into the game for a long time?

Would the counter stop during downtime (version updates, crashes)?

Would the counter tick during auctions when active (impossible to sell since value would deteriorate during the time it was in auction) or would it be possible to store it in auction to make it last longer?



To be honest, I don't really like the idea

 

[billairboy]

i sort of like the idea. but depending on availablity, wouldnt this risk killing off any remaining MU value of UL items? non need to buy an imp fap, i can aquire a TL one for a few months, say over merry mayhem or WoF. maybe work as prizes, particularly for events.

Yes, it would of cource make UL items value go down a bit, but not that much if the drop rate is not to high. The items would be more rare than ordinary L items, but more common to UL items.

Would you be able to use the remaining TT after timeout?

Would you be able to "activate" the timer or would it start the second it was looted? If it starts when looted, what would happen if you looted one and then could not log into the game for a long time?

My thinking is that it gets an "end date", after that date it works like a ordinary L item, you can use it, but not repair it. If your are online or offline would not effect the end date of the item.

 

[aridash]

Would you be able to use the remaining TT after timeout?

Would you be able to "activate" the timer or would it start the second it was looted? If it starts when looted, what would happen if you looted one and then could not log into the game for a long time?

Would the counter stop during downtime (version updates, crashes)?

Would the counter tick during auctions when active (impossible to sell since value would deteriorate during the time it was in auction) or would it be possible to store it in auction to make it last longer?

if i were developing the idea (and i often think of doing a game)...

the "time limit" would be the ability to repair the item. would pobably limit to higher decay, or high frequency use items for this reason.

keep it simple.
timer starts immediatly. cant logon? why how do you use anything else, its rather beyond the scope of the developer.
Counter pauses would depend on the scale. if 90, 120 days etc then wouldnt bother for updates (its negligable effect). if days or hours then would do.
Counter would tick over during auction for exactly the problem highlighted, it could otherwise be used to hold the clock. again depending on the time scale, the value isnt changing meaningfully. maybe not permit auction sale in last 10% of life? certainly place some warning. greater impact here for short time scales and increasingly short times throw up more problems so favour long time frame.

after comment about the lack of reward about the missions elsewhere, i'm really liking this idea now as a potential solution.

 

[XeroX2]

I think that time limited items are a very good idea. I would prefer them to be implemented in Combat Arms style. e.g. they always keep counting with the exception of downtimes of the server. Also their timeframes are rather high with the most common one a day and then start from there. So the average of all drops should be at least a week but probably closer to a month. The timer starts automaticaly for crafted items but it can be started on looted items. All items can be sold through auction as long as they have a minimum of 1 day left after the auction end date. A popup window should show the current remaining usage time as a warning.

 

[aia]

i sort of like the idea. but depending on availablity, wouldnt this risk killing off any remaining MU value of UL items? non need to buy an imp fap, i can aquire a TL one for a few months, say over merry mayhem or WoF. maybe work as prizes, particularly for events.

You say "risk" (of falling markup) for the people who currently own let's say imp fap; but for those who doesn't own imp fap already it's an opportunity.

 

[Kim|MindArk]

I've thought about this as well. It would be used in the fishing system for various kinds of bait that get spoiled after a while.

It also allows for the creation of more interesting quest rewards that won't necessarily have a negative impact on the economy.

 

[millstreet2]

I've thought about this as well. It would be used in the fishing system for various kinds of bait that get spoiled after a while.

It also allows for the creation of more interesting quest rewards that won't necessarily have a negative impact on the economy.

So fishing is getting more consideration now it looks like.

It is a great idea to implement to the universe. But lets pls keep a tasteful timeline of bringing back older systems.

Some new, some old.. keep improving and this game is right back on track for success.

My Idea for fishing if you take this to a high lvl. Would be for fishing" Message in a bottle" Or basicly a different form of beacon. Where maybe you have islands setup with mobs near the lvl of the treasure your seeking. Would be a good idea to get societies hunting together ect. and create a demand for Messages in a Bottle, and other fishing loot that could be used for 1 time activities.

 

[millstreet2]

I want to give my 2 pecs. That maybe you could implement "Messages in a bottle."

This would be another form of beacon. could put the locations to hunt the treasures on certain locations.

This could also tie into the treasure hunting system.

How about maybe even combining a bit of the activity from the 2. Maybe you need something fished from the sea, and something extracted from the ground to find your treasure.

What about half treasure maps. Where you can find 1 through sea, and 1 through land. This would create a environment where treasure hunting and sea fishing may have extra demand.

Any thoughts on the treasure maps / or Message in a bottle ideas?

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

Sounds like a good solution. I think it would work well.

 

[Snuggins]

I think this idea would provide too much incentive for obsessive play. With the real-money effect and a time limit like that I am afraid we would hear stories of gamers dying at the keyboard. It only takes one of those to make a very bad splash in the news. It's not outside the realm of possibility. It has happened in other games. While it's unreasonable to try to make a game that can't be played obsessively, I do think developers have some responsibility to consider the psychological impact of game mechanics and try to balance how much they manipulate players into wanting to keep playing.

Imagine if someone has a (TL) uber item with a relatively huge mark-up (which MA can't directly control btw), that player will have a large economic pressure to play as much as they possibly can with it. Even if the dying at the keyboard scenario is only an extreme possibility that doesn't ever happen, there are plenty of other less extreme cases where this kind of economic pressure to play obsessively can cause serious negative effects on people's lives. EU already has a strong psychological effect because of the real money aspect and it's widely seen as "addictive" in a non-clinical sense, that doesn't need amplification imo. Make players want to play long term, not "need" to play short term.

Besides that, one of the great strengths of EU is its lack of a subscription fee. I think it would be a mistake to embed something like one in the game.

(TL) stackables that have a very low value (bait, food, etc.) are a different story completely. I don't think those would really be a problem.

 

[mastermesh]

Horrible idea unless it's really restricted. Believe it or not, some of us have day jobs, so have at least 40 hours a week we can't be in game. If you introduce Time Limited Items, that gives the folks with no jobs and rich parents a major advantage.

One type of item that might be interesting and fit in would be a bomb with a fuse... not a mining bomb, a mass murder area affect bomb... perhaps hand grenade with the pin already pulled would be a better name for it then bomb. Count down timer shows up in upper right hand side of screen before it goes to zero and boom. Better find a pack of mob or an enemy in pvp fast. Maybe have a 5 minute countdown on it.

 

[aridash]

... If you introduce Time Limited Items, that gives the folks with no jobs and rich parents a major advantage.

yeah, because they have no advantage right now? as criticisms go thats pretty poor, dont introduce something in case the rich kid might use it.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

I think this idea would provide too much incentive for obsessive play. With the real-money effect and a time limit like that I am afraid we would hear stories of gamers dying at the keyboard. It only takes one of those to make a very bad splash in the news. It's not outside the realm of possibility. It has happened in other games. While it's unreasonable to try to make a game that can't be played obsessively, I do think developers have some responsibility to consider the psychological impact of game mechanics and try to balance how much they manipulate players into wanting to keep playing.

Imagine if someone has a (TL) uber item with a relatively huge mark-up (which MA can't directly control btw), that player will have a large economic pressure to play as much as they possibly can with it. Even if the dying at the keyboard scenario is only an extreme possibility that doesn't ever happen, there are plenty of other less extreme cases where this kind of economic pressure to play obsessively can cause serious negative effects on people's lives. EU already has a strong psychological effect because of the real money aspect and it's widely seen as "addictive" in a non-clinical sense, that doesn't need amplification imo. Make players want to play long term, not "need" to play short term.

Besides that, one of the great strengths of EU is its lack of a subscription fee. I think it would be a mistake to embed something like one in the game.

(TL) stackables that have a very low value (bait, food, etc.) are a different story completely. I don't think those would really be a problem.

Very good points. I completely agree. Implement time sensitive items and gamers will engage in obsessive compulsive behavior and they will die from it. If crappy games like Lineage and ZT Online can get people killed then EU at its most extreme might start a small war. We must keep the worst behavior of others in mind when we deal with money and time.

 

[Cani Ostro]

So, what are people with jobs doing with those items?

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

I think this idea would provide too much incentive for obsessive play. With the real-money effect and a time limit like that I am afraid we would hear stories of gamers dying at the keyboard. It only takes one of those to make a very bad splash in the news. It's not outside the realm of possibility. It has happened in other games. While it's unreasonable to try to make a game that can't be played obsessively, I do think developers have some responsibility to consider the psychological impact of game mechanics and try to balance how much they manipulate players into wanting to keep playing.

Imagine if someone has a (TL) uber item with a relatively huge mark-up (which MA can't directly control btw), that player will have a large economic pressure to play as much as they possibly can with it. Even if the dying at the keyboard scenario is only an extreme possibility that doesn't ever happen, there are plenty of other less extreme cases where this kind of economic pressure to play obsessively can cause serious negative effects on people's lives. EU already has a strong psychological effect because of the real money aspect and it's widely seen as "addictive" in a non-clinical sense, that doesn't need amplification imo. Make players want to play long term, not "need" to play short term.

Besides that, one of the great strengths of EU is its lack of a subscription fee. I think it would be a mistake to embed something like one in the game.

(TL) stackables that have a very low value (bait, food, etc.) are a different story completely. I don't think those would really be a problem.

Good points perhaps the solution could be to pause the timer if the item is inside storage. That way it alleviates the pressure for a person to be online all the time.

 

[Svarog]

One thing I love about EU over other online games is that I don't have to worry about the time. I may play 10 hours a day or take a month long break. When I log to the game I do it because I really want to play, not because I feel that I miss something or that my paid time is going to waste. Also, try to tell your better half, "Sorry dear, we can't go to your parents for weekend, I have a modfap(TL) rotting in my inventory", and guess who will need a modfap in RL a second later

Yes, there are many possible workarounds, like the one GeorgeSkywalker has proposed, but why to implement such a complex system in the first place? While I see some benefits in TL-system for MA for it would subtly force people to play more, I don't see much advantages of TL over L for the players or the economy.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Good points perhaps the solution could be to pause the timer if the item is inside storage. That way it alleviates the pressure for a person to be online all the time.

But then it would not be time limited except for when you use it ... so the time limit would have to be just a few hours, which could cause quite a few problems if the person crashes just when he has gotten it from storage or something

 

[M Rufen Power]

If a time limit is gonna be used for possibly bait/fishing in future & some MF items have a cooldown time period. I don't see why MA cannot implement grenades of different dmg types for combat use as an actual weapon. For pvp it would be an amazing new toy I would feel. Maybe putting sticky motion sensor grenades onto the oil rig so noone can go near it? . Or having rocket launchers that actually lock onto a target, such as a helicopter.

 

[billairboy]

So, what are people with jobs doing with those items?

Well, is it realy a big problem? If a item last for 100 days or more, will people actually play much more each day because of that? You could say that we already have that problem today if that was the case. A player today with a "profit makeing avatar" can feel pressured to play as much that he or she could each day.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Or having rocket launchers that actually lock onto a target, such as a helicopter.

Oh that could be cool but it should trigger a "Lock On" warning for the helicopter driver and evasive manuvers should be possible if you manage to move fast and long enough (simply moving aside 5 meters would not be enough, but a violent twist around ending up 20 meters away might)

 

[sidxx]

for time limited items, why not explore the idea of time logged in? say a time limited weapon/tool lasts 10 hours of logged in time, its not much different then doing merrymayhem, if you need a break log off and rest, that stops problems of people having left it equipped accidentally when their internet is down for hours or days.

also i don't like the idea of the timer starting at the time of the items being looted or crafted, we all know that items can sit on auction for days on end so that is just stupid, why not instead have a simple UI to start its timer, and the item can not be equipped/used before the timers countdown is activated

however, an interesting idea came to mind for "stackable spoilable goods". it would make sense that these would start to go bad immediately upon their creation, lets say after 3 days fish bait is no longer useable regardless of time logged in, due to spoilage, but with the invention of refrigerated/cryo containers might be possible to slow the the process of spoilage by 50% or whatever

 

[sidxx]

Oh that could be cool but it should trigger a "Lock On" warning for the helicopter driver and evasive maneuvers should be possible if you manage to move fast and long enough (simply moving aside 5 meters would not be enough, but a violent twist around ending up 20 meters away might)

i say we need proximity explosives possibly a new attachment similar to an amp/scope/laser only for rockets of all types, tho grenades would be tricky to implement a proximity feature for, i would think, because they have such short range and you would blow yourself up.. but that's all for another thread

 

[tamlin]

I like this idea

I like this idea. It would have to be very carefully thought trough before implemented, to neither make such items tt-food, and not devaluate existing UL items, but I think it could be doable.

For a change, I even agree with Kim - except I see it possible to use this for more than fishing bait. But indeed, as a limited-time "something" awarded for some new missions (not 1 million Dasp Stalkers, I'm talking about achievable stuff) it could be seriously cool for e.g. a lower-level player to get:

"You have achieved XYZZY! You have been given a time-limited ZQX Armor and a PQR27 gun!!! This armor and this gun can only be used against mob M2QPR in area A47MB3R, and only until NOW()+t). Note that all items are at 0 tt-value and MUST be repaired before you can use them. Any remaining tt-value once time expires will be returned to your PED card".

It would solve the dilemma of letting newer players get a "taste" of higher-level hunting without having to depo a bazillion, and get them to test it in person. If that doesn't hook them on the higher level hunting, that's quite possibly not that persons interest after all. Heck, throw in a TL adjfap for all I care - so long as they have fun, and get a taste of what's ahead.

The time 't' could be as small as one hour, going up to several weeks. All depends on what bone you want to throw.

Again, it would require *bloody* careful balancing, possibly even require instancing to not mess with the global economy engine (this is THE most important issue!), but I think it could be implemented within a few weeks if properly designed.

(I only scratched the surface of the ideas I see possible)

 

[Snuggins]

"You have achieved XYZZY! You have been given a time-limited ZQX Armor and a PQR27 gun!!! This armor and this gun can only be used against mob M2QPR in area A47MB3R, and only until NOW()+t). Note that all items are at 0 tt-value and MUST be repaired before you can use them. Any remaining tt-value once time expires will be returned to your PED card".

That sounds completely unappealing to me. It has so many arbitrary limitations built in. I know EU isn't the most immersive game out there, but bringing the metagame to the forefront like that would be another step in the wrong direction imo.

I guess that's another reason I don't like the whole idea of time-limited items. (L) items that are unrepairable are bad enough, but hey we have stuff that's disposable like that in the real world (more and more of it everyday) where repairing something just doesn't make sense compared to getting a new one. But time-limited items there is no explanation for that except "In this video game we want to allow players to experience something for a limited time."

Besides after you add in the cost of getting achievement XYZZY is this going to be any cheaper for someone than just buying big (L) gear and jumping in the deep end using the tools we have now? Are these new tools going to have different skill requirements so that it would be different than using the (L) gear we have now?

There definitely would be a lot of balancing that would need to be done to make this idea work. That's one of the most difficult things to get right too. A look at this games history will show how much has needed to be changed and the lasting effects of balancing things in a live system. I don't think this idea has enough value to be worth the risk/work.

 

[Soradin]

Time limited items... I can't say I like the idea.

Some people actually have lives and families and jobs, and may not log in for 15 hours a day 7 days a week.

That would be a step in the completely wrong direction, IMHO...

Not to mention from an immersion standpoint, it makes absolutely no sense at all. There are already enough things that make no sense from a logical standpoint, adding more is the wrong idea, at least from my point of view.

 

[Atraie]

Here is the problem i see with it.

It will start off, 'hey good idea', and be implemented.

Then people will complain that their timer tics down during auctions. And there is no way to sell these items because a week on auction renders it useless. So they will stop the timer in auction.

Then peopel will complain about looting a day item right before a patch and an 8 hour patch taking away a large chunk of the time. And they will waste time making the timer stop during downtime.

Then people will complain about how they can only play a couple hours a day and its unfair that someone who can play for 8 hours at a time have a huge advantge. So finally they will break and pause the timer while you are offline.

Then people will complain about how they forgot about an item and it expired.

And on and on.

And in the end the timer will only be active when you are online, when you have the item in your inventory not storage, and when youa re activly using it.

And at that point, its just a normal limited item, and should have just been restricted by number of uses and not time.

So really it sounds like a huge waste of time,and a huge headache for MA.

 

[billairboy]

Well, my thought was that the period would be pretty long, i am talking about a couple of month time. That way loosing a few days on auctions would not be a big problem. And no "time clock" that starts and stops when useing it, just a simple end date. But as some have say, the issue of people feeling that they are loosing value if they are not playing and useing the item perhaps is a bigger problem for you than i thought it would be.

Perhaps in some special areas and functions this could be of use, or maybe not.

 

[Svarog]

How about perishable sweat? . Let the gathered sweat not go to the inventory in bottles, but stay inside the extractor, you can check the amount of sweat in the extractor in it's info window. When you're ready to sell or use it, you extract it to the inventory - and tic-tock, time's running. You or your buyer need to employ the sweat bottles (e.g. make ME from it) within a very short period, like 1-3 hours, after which it renders useless. It will strike resellers and enliven the sweat market. It also makes sense - only imagine all these thousands of litres of sweat stinking in the storages for years. Brrr...