Why are weapons "STILL" that expensive?

[In Love With]

Hello all,

I have been playing EU for over 18 years now and in that time literally thousands of weapons have been introduced, yet even entry weapons like a Frontier 100 still costs several thousand ped.

That is something I simply do not understand. With the amount of weapons MA has been given out over the years, lower end weapons should be a few hundred ped (at most). Surely some weapons exited the game (in-active accounts, banned accounts) but I would assume that vast majority are still in somewhat active hands.

This really puzzles me as I am not talking about 80% efficiency high end stuff, no just entry/medium guns as well ...

Anyone got thoughts?

ILW

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

Probably because more players at the lower end.

Also people who may stop playing may just leave items etc in account. Hence many items may just be idle for years or forever.

 

[MikeH]

Supply and demand ?

 

[pheebseu]

because no one in their right mind is going to sell a UL weapon at a loss

if i pay tt+2000 for an lc-100, i will sell it tt+2000 or more, not a pec less. make that weapon exchange hands a few times and you now have a tt+2300 lc-100 (you get the idea)

 

[Art Jennifer]

because no one in their right mind is going to sell a UL weapon at a loss

if i pay tt+2000 for an lc-100, i will sell it tt+2000 or more, not a pec less. make that weapon exchange hands a few times and you now have a tt+2300 lc-100 (you get the idea)

This..

Greedy players I’m trying to sell a kinetic attack 5 ten edition for 2.5k… way to much. But it’ll just sit in my storage forever if I don’t get that

 

[Orion]

Literally hundreds, if not thousands of UL weapons are trapped on dormant avatars of inactive players.
They may have lost interest in the game, but didn't cash out everything.
Maybe hoping for rising markets and prices of their guns (and may have lost track of market swings due to too deep inactivity).
Or just in case they may return "later".

 

[sachi.mk2]

More competition for weapons. In 2012 hunters were not botting. Now players who work full time can AFK hunting rather than crafting. Also, while it may seem prices haven't come down in PED, they have in $, inflation will erode the value.

 

[ProActive Mango]

Simple answer. Mindark controls the flow of weapons and Mindark clearly wants items to be very expensive.
Good luck bringing in new players to the game...
Invest in your avatar, sell your car, sell your house, sell your wife and perhaps after that you can hunt and play some Entropia.

 

[ZPF]

Also, while it may seem prices haven't come down in PED, they have in $, inflation will erode the value.

There's been about 20% inflation for the US dollar since 2018 around the time I stopped playing regularly.

At that time the adjusted excavator was worth about tt+2-3k
Now it's worth tt+5-6k.

Double in price in 5 years... the only explanation I've heard that made sense was a big boom in players during covid-era.

Combine this with the "I will never sell for a loss" mentality and prices become "sticky", even if those player numbers go back down, prices will not.

 

[SoberPhil]

To add to everything that's been said already, I'd say hoarding by resellers does affect prices too because it creates artificial scarcity.

 

[Gopher]

To add to everything that's been said already, I'd say hoarding by resellers does affect prices too because it creates artificial scarcity.

Yea especially when a single reseller owns about 10-12 weps from what I've seen (half or more loot 2.0) Safe to say those weps will never be held by a hunter for at least a few more years.

 

[robber]

Well check how many wepons have anoyez for sale...
But price is going down. And will wepon prices will hit a proper shiter after twen. Atm twen tokens hold price. You see a new trend. Buy my 2.0 wepon for covid price so i can pul cheap twen wepon ) etc
But cheaper wepons get better its for game.. more ppl have access to them those who say otherwise think about their own valet rather than games health in general

 

[robber]

Fyi remmber mod nanos + will need to pull mayhem wepons to cover costs which will push it down even more ....

 

[Msturlese]

There are 10m token still to arrive bp20 fen base i proce 20k twen 25k ? 50 PEC each

Minisweeper 64k tiered 60k? 75k tokens ..its 80pec each


Atm prices hold but its of course going there in few week or days...

Unity items are very good too

Twen doa is short range but insane damage....


With hallo and Winter pulls and even more with a twen restock game Will see 40 percent lower prices than 2020


Token hoarders CAN NOT buy all to pull more because at some price we see weapon hoarders that can not sell inventory.


Great claw ioose against UNITY melee.. must fall under those item value

Bc80 is worse than glinting pulled at 140k....


Just Hope for rich fools gice Hope to "greedastic four"...well One disappeared...now are 3

 

[Love Banjo]

folk har för mycket pengar och fritid[​

 

[MikeH]

There are 10m token still to arrive bp20 fen base i proce 20k twen 25k ? 50 PEC each

Minisweeper 64k tiered 60k? 75k tokens ..its 80pec each


Atm prices hold but its of course going there in few week or days...

Unity items are very good too

Twen doa is short range but insane damage....


With hallo and Winter pulls and even more with a twen restock game Will see 40 percent lower prices than 2020


Token hoarders CAN NOT buy all to pull more because at some price we see weapon hoarders that can not sell inventory.


Great claw ioose against UNITY melee.. must fall under those item value

Bc80 is worse than glinting pulled at 140k....


Just Hope for rich fools gice Hope to "greedastic four"...well One disappeared...now are 3

May be read the OP before going into maths ?

 

[thee pepe]

Low level guns can be used by players who don’t want to progress forever. You can be level 100 and still be shooting a frontier, Maddox adj, ep-41.

So I think what keeps those prices up is the amount of ppl willing to use them.

 

[True Juan]

There are inactive accounts that abandoned shops with several shopkeepers so I'm not surprised other items would also be on inactive accounts. For some people several K is not a big amount of money.

Problem is this creates a lot of dead pixels and MA should take over after certain amount of inactivity and put the stuff into lootpool.
Due to this there are also too many empty estates in inactive accounts. Makes the game look bad imho.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

90% of the player base haven't calculated the costs to use a weapon vs the markup it's selling for + markup it can extract + time to breakeven but are stuck on the fallacy that "it's the going rate in the market" so they pay the prices like good little sheep.

The answer: >

It'll be Unreal when the robots zap every UL item to (L).

 

[TheOneOmega]

because no one in their right mind is going to sell a UL weapon at a loss

if i pay tt+2000 for an lc-100, i will sell it tt+2000 or more, not a pec less. make that weapon exchange hands a few times and you now have a tt+2300 lc-100 (you get the idea)

I would not necessarily label this as the "right mind;" it seems little more than an attempt to rationalize the sunk cost fallacy. Of course, that doesn't preclude it from accurately describing how players make market decisions. Nonetheless, folks act on sunk costs in the real world all the time, and the expected aggregate result is not constant upward price pressure. Perhaps this is a stronger causal link specifically in markets without short selling readily accessible?

To add to everything that's been said already, I'd say hoarding by resellers does affect prices too because it creates artificial scarcity.

All scarcity in a virtual world is in one sense or another artificial. I'd be willing to go as far as to say it is artificial in a stronger sense where there is insufficient liquidity for markets to clear. It would be nice to see, i.e., all items have high enough circulating supply to trade on the auction at least once every few months or so.

Where I think this goes awry and threatens to devolve into a moral panic is in the implications of the the term "hoarding." This framing bares the connotation of low circulating supply being the responsibility of certain players rather than developers, and may lead to the thinking "if only we could somehow coerce other players to make the market decisions we want them to, then we could induce circulating supply to rise closer to total supply." This freedom/efficiency trade off is entirely constructed, and entirely unnecessary. MindArk has control over total supply, and can estimate the relation between total supply and future circulating supply in advance using historical data models. Simplifying greatly, if MindArk wants to see about 30 copies of an item per year trade on the auction, and they see that the ratio of yearly circulating supply to total supply converges to a constant 1/2, they drop 60 copies. Of course, the relation may not be a constant ratio over time or over circulating supply, so more complicated temporal and game theoretic models may be helpful, but assuming that all of an item's supply is the quantity of it that's "supposed" to be circulating is a unhelpful proxy for the much more reasonable take that we should have more copies of stuff available. If we want to criticize low circulating supply, then we should focus on the problem of low total supply. Framing it as a problem with the relation between total supply and circulating supply threatens to construct artificial animosity between players, and possibly even constraints on their decisions, all for much more limited collective benefit than what is achievable by addressing problems with total supply.

 

[Tei]

There are inactive accounts that abandoned shops with several shopkeepers so I'm not surprised other items would also be on inactive accounts. For some people several K is not a big amount of money.

Problem is this creates a lot of dead pixels and MA should take over after certain amount of inactivity and put the stuff into lootpool.
Due to this there are also too many empty estates in inactive accounts. Makes the game look bad imho.

WTF dude.... You are in this game long enough to understand RCE aspect.
What you are wishing for is simply company stealing from it's customers to redistribute goods to other players.
Thi would make game look really bad.

Please think about implications that your ideas would have before voicing them....

99% of inactive people still log to keep account alive. I myself was inactive for 5 years, still have my items.

 

[Gopher]

WTF dude.... You are in this game long enough to understand RCE aspect.
What you are wishing for is simply company stealing from it's customers to redistribute goods to other players.
Thi would make game look really bad.

Please think about implications that your ideas would have before voicing them....

99% of inactive people still log to keep account alive. I myself was inactive for 5 years, still have my items.

You agree to the terms whenever you launch the game, MA has the right to terminate and liquidate accounts inactive for 1year+, its not stealing if your agreeing to these terms willingly.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

WTF dude.... You are in this game long enough to understand RCE aspect.
What you are wishing for is simply company stealing from it's customers to redistribute goods to other players.
Thi would make game look really bad.

Please think about implications that your ideas would have before voicing them....

99% of inactive people still log to keep account alive. I myself was inactive for 5 years, still have my items.

You agree to the terms whenever you launch the game, MA has the right to terminate and liquidate accounts inactive for 1year+, its not stealing if your agreeing to these terms willingly.

"You own nothing and you'll be happy." - MindArk regarding any and all items in the Entropia Universe.

 

[Tei]

You agree to the terms whenever you launch the game, MA has the right to terminate and liquidate accounts inactive for 1year+, its not stealing if your agreeing to these terms willingly.

What you saying goes without saying. It used to be like that long time ago as well, only time for inactivity was much longer (3 years if memory serves well). There was even special liquidation MA avatar that was selling items on auction.
You need to just login into game or into website once per year to not lose account.

True Juan suggested that MA take items from inactive accounts, not from ones that had been liquidated.

 

[AnosVoldigoad]

It's all about the supply and command baby

 

[PreyNaika]

we need to hold things seperate

there are diferent class items.
you cant compare a lp 70 with a maddox

the numbers are just to illustrate, not based on actual Math,allways do you own research*

50-60 effi items are for the casual
70-80 effi items are for the more serious players
80-90+ effi items are for the hardcore players

this applys to dps too

around 50 dps is the casual
80 dps and above for the more serious player
250-300+ for the hardcore players

we can take a look on theyr ballpark if we give them ranks

D shitty weapons, the old pre cryengine stuff noone needs
C the 50-60 effi items with <60 dps
B the 70 - 80 effi items with above 70 dps
A the 80+ effi items with some nice dps

D ballpark is about 100-500 ped (because this is what people spend avg on a game) mostly driven by players who are new to the game, those kind of players who think its a good idea to buy a non sib lvl 100 item, because theyr mentor just finished mentorship with his own tier 10 lvl 100 non sib item.
C ballpark is about 2K-6k+ driven by the low to mid lvl players who dont want to spend the extra mu on armatrix. but want to do some sort of upgrade to feel better
B ballpark is about 10-60K ped driven by the players who understood very well that unlimited useable items are a must have,but cant efford to get a A class item
A ballpark is about 100-250+Kped driven by the players who got the peds and know how to make a good amount of profit


now we need to understand the WHY

D class items are items that got sold to people who have no idea what to do because they got a bad mentor (LOADS of supply but no demand)

C class items are items in demand of the low to mid lvl casual player, we got a lot of them... and thats good, thats where demand hits the most, in that lvl range there are rly not much UL weapons for sale and if you find one YES then it costs a lot because there are atleast 50 other players in the line, and everyone wants to lvl up, thats a reason why we see price jumps from 1K to 2K to 3K back to 1K then to 5K and so on...

B class items are items that enable you to cross the bridge between top 500 and top 100 but still fair in price
the fair price comes because in that niece there is basicly no competition since its a bridge, they know what they do they use a calculator and see if its worth it to go with xxx item for xxx goal or with xxx item for xxx goal. thats why a camo bgh for example is very cheap(higher lvl then avarge joe, less competition drives the price down)

A class items are very limited in numbers,very efficient and very potential players who are in the top 100 want those, most of them (not all) got money and know how. you want to be part of them ? ok unlock your pedcard...dont wait for prices to fall because they dont fall there...they produce income... they pull mu... its a competition zone... want a top effi item or top dps item ? stand in line with the other 50 dudes who got peds too (demand but no supply)

 

[Msturlese]

as Naika pointed, there is a "spending power" that poses limits.
YES a "old school" dream item (IMK2) cost 100k ped, and it is 10.000 Euro. it is a BIG amont.
for most people that is not available in cash in real life for a car, and leads to debit purchase
is it fair to ask for a 10.000 Euro for playing a game? i am not a communist, its supply and demand.

the real point is
does ANY player need a 10.000 Eur tool? the answer is NO
there are other ways to improve return
1. accuracy enhancers rise DPP and lead to better return
2. looter profession (TREE CUTTING) lead to better return
3. allocating Analtomy (and dexterity with some ration with analysis) , perception, alertness and as avilable analysis lead to better returns

EFFICIENCY is not the only way, it helps in larget cycle stabilizazion, looking at 2017 "creation" it is rather clear that was tied to economicity

a 1000 EUR tool (ep41 mil adj, with imp 105 amp is a pretty good tool, with sights and scopes it goes a LONG way.

a big dps tool need to be fed with a BIG amount of ammo (again, it is not for everyone so shot 2000 ped per hour, it lead to 40-60 ped SURE TT LOSS in the mid term.... that is not GAMING anymore, it is MU EXTRACTING already.
if you dont extract MU with those fire rate on a costant basis you will loose 20 eur per day, 600 eur per month 7000 eur per year.

this is the DECAY effect, expected return (AMMO * 0.98 +shrapnel part *1.01 + item part * max (nanocube MU ; average MU looted)
since we can not control the TT return part but just improve via looter, dpp, eff optimization, that affect the shrapnel part, the real control of the player is the target for mu chasing.

in a competitive world, like EU, the "MU niches that are spotted are DRAINED to breakeven level by the player that finds them. and as its drained he has to look for a fresh MU pool.

BIGGER MONSTERS
need more dps
need better stats
need better gears
to be "TANKED"... this is where the value of class A (Naika table) items kick in... i need meta setup to stay alive, i need big dps for leech, big fap (100 hp plus) and resto chips (for HOT)... kill cost rise, MU lost in killing rise, and (hopefully) MU extracted better covers the TT Losses.


This is NOT a matter for the casual player, that can hunt naked (no mu on gear decay) dont need sustain because can fap after kill and need a medium to low level tool because monster regen is not an issue.... so prices are more affordable.


the real point is.... how many players can buy a 100k ped (10.000 euro) item?
i have no answer but Entropialife list 3700 global makers... and this even poured in game 50 items.... 15% of players pool..... SUPPLY OF GOOD ITEMS FOR THE FIRST TIME OVERWHELMS DEMAND:..... the results can be 2
- someone hoardes them investing 200.000 EUR to hope for price rise with new engine
- prices will fall 30% more to allow class B buyers to get to a class A and class C to get to class B

just my 2 economic pecs

 

[ProActive Mango]

we need to hold things seperate

there are diferent class items.
you cant compare a lp 70 with a maddox

the numbers are just to illustrate, not based on actual Math,allways do you own research*

50-60 effi items are for the casual
70-80 effi items are for the more serious players
80-90+ effi items are for the hardcore players

this applys to dps too

around 50 dps is the casual
80 dps and above for the more serious player
250-300+ for the hardcore players

we can take a look on theyr ballpark if we give them ranks

D shitty weapons, the old pre cryengine stuff noone needs
C the 50-60 effi items with <60 dps
B the 70 - 80 effi items with above 70 dps
A the 80+ effi items with some nice dps

D ballpark is about 100-500 ped (because this is what people spend avg on a game) mostly driven by players who are new to the game, those kind of players who think its a good idea to buy a non sib lvl 100 item, because theyr mentor just finished mentorship with his own tier 10 lvl 100 non sib item.
C ballpark is about 2K-6k+ driven by the low to mid lvl players who dont want to spend the extra mu on armatrix. but want to do some sort of upgrade to feel better
B ballpark is about 10-60K ped driven by the players who understood very well that unlimited useable items are a must have,but cant efford to get a A class item
A ballpark is about 100-250+Kped driven by the players who got the peds and know how to make a good amount of profit


now we need to understand the WHY

D class items are items that got sold to people who have no idea what to do because they got a bad mentor (LOADS of supply but no demand)

C class items are items in demand of the low to mid lvl casual player, we got a lot of them... and thats good, thats where demand hits the most, in that lvl range there are rly not much UL weapons for sale and if you find one YES then it costs a lot because there are atleast 50 other players in the line, and everyone wants to lvl up, thats a reason why we see price jumps from 1K to 2K to 3K back to 1K then to 5K and so on...

B class items are items that enable you to cross the bridge between top 500 and top 100 but still fair in price
the fair price comes because in that niece there is basicly no competition since its a bridge, they know what they do they use a calculator and see if its worth it to go with xxx item for xxx goal or with xxx item for xxx goal. thats why a camo bgh for example is very cheap(higher lvl then avarge joe, less competition drives the price down)

A class items are very limited in numbers,very efficient and very potential players who are in the top 100 want those, most of them (not all) got money and know how. you want to be part of them ? ok unlock your pedcard...dont wait for prices to fall because they dont fall there...they produce income... they pull mu... its a competition zone... want a top effi item or top dps item ? stand in line with the other 50 dudes who got peds too (demand but no supply)

Im sorry but you have been sold a lie.
Eff dont determine the return in the long run, it only makes it cheaper in the short period. Swine deluxe and imk2 has the same ending but on diffrent times.

 

[PreyNaika]

Im sorry but you have been sold a lie.
Eff dont determine the return in the long run, it only makes it cheaper in the short period. Swine deluxe and imk2 has the same ending but on diffrent times.

Ok, curiose culd you explain that ?

 

[Pi0tr]

Im sorry but you have been sold a lie.
Eff dont determine the return in the long run, it only makes it cheaper in the short period. Swine deluxe and imk2 has the same ending but on diffrent times.

Totally false assumption