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Question: Why do ppl spend lotsa peds on UL wep thats worse than L ones???

from the melee perspective you don't have another choice really than getting some unL blade
the embra c1 example may not be the best, as it isn't -that- expensive- especially markup wise
i know i bought mine for +3000, and don't regret a pec of it, cause it made me reach my long term skill goal, which i wanted to do with longblades
if i had used L i would be years away from that (sucky availability) and had spent way more than 3k peds (cause everything above 105% for melee just sucks, as they just decay :p)

some stuff i see as fairly useless to own tho, especially often available and low priced stuff
e.g. the unL H400 is such a case now i guess, with p5a so cheap and other weapons around the same dps also often and easily available, it kinda lost its use (think its even more uneco than a p5a at current prices, not sure though)

either way, my embra, cutter one and power claw ME (gotta admit that i looted the power claw and didnt buy it) saved me quite a few peds, actually made me profit
doubt i had done that with melee without them
 
Yeah, with the way melee is right now, UL SIB is the only way to hunt with more than 500 PED a day, pending you don't want to deposit hundreds of PED a week to do so with (L) or non-SIB.

But for any normal profession, the markup on things such as p5a, apis, x1, etc make (L) a MUCH more favourable venture than buying an UL SIB of a similar skill set and DPS.
 
I think the reason generally is because this.

If you go hunt with (L)GUN, your decay bill is -TT*MU.

If you hunt with an ULGUN, your decay bill is -TT.

Now usually UL guns have higher decay rate, so depending on how much higher it is... it will determine whether the higher decay is actually higher or lower then the (L)Guns decay+MU.
 
Example, someone said that ULAmps decay @ same rate... which I dont know if its true or not... but Ill use it as an example, although it could be false.


OA-102 (L) = 100TT * 112%MU = 112TT per 100 bombs in replacement.

OA-102 (UL) = 100TT = 100TT per 100 bombs in repairs.

Savings is 12ped per amp, now say the amp is 50,000PED (random #)

You'd need to expect to use 4166 OA102's over whatever course of time you feel is reasonable to have the item 100% pay itself off, and the % of the (L)OA-102's would need to remain constant.
 
LeWolf86 said:
Example, someone said that ULAmps decay @ same rate... which I dont know if its true or not... but Ill use it as an example, although it could be false.


OA-102 (L) = 100TT * 112%MU = 112TT per 100 bombs in replacement.

OA-102 (UL) = 100TT = 100TT per 100 bombs in repairs.

Savings is 12ped per amp, now say the amp is 50,000PED (random #)

You'd need to expect to use 4166 OA102's over whatever course of time you feel is reasonable to have the item 100% pay itself off, and the % of the (L)OA-102's would need to remain constant.
Click to expand...

i can confirum oa101 does so i am sure the rest do as well..
 
Because the UnL SIB stuff is an investment in addition to being a useful tool.
UnL SIB is the SGA generation's version of us oldie's Mod Mercs and Imp mk2's and mod faps.
Those items are gonna appreciate in value over time
You buy a gun that you only pay a mark up on one time. you use it until your sick of it and then sell it for at least what you paid for it, possably more due to appreciation.

When stuff like mod mercs and shadow armor and mod faps first started dropping people they were tt food due to the dynamics of the game at the time. people who held on to them made a killing when they sold.
unfortunately it isnt quite like that this time but they still will appreciate just not as obscenely as the old generation adj/imp/mod stuff.

basically you get a good item that your only gonna have to pay decay on when you use it instead of paying markup every hunt or fraction of a hunt.

if you have the peds which would you rather? pay varying markups for varying availability of a buttload of a given L weapon all of which gets flushed down the loo as you use it.
or buy 1 unlimited version of said L weapon, use it to your hearts content only paying decay on its use to sell it for what you paid for it or better at a profit when your done with it.
Also unlike the L versions the UnL version would work like a non liquid intrest bearing investment that you can cash in when you have a financial emergency.
 
Kay-T said:
Because the UnL SIB stuff is an investment in addition to being a useful tool.
UnL SIB is the SGA generation's version of us oldie's Mod Mercs and Imp mk2's and mod faps.
Those items are gonna appreciate in value over time
You buy a gun that you only pay a mark up on one time. you use it until your sick of it and then sell it for at least what you paid for it, possably more due to appreciation.

When stuff like mod mercs and shadow armor and mod faps first started dropping people they were tt food due to the dynamics of the game at the time. people who held on to them made a killing when they sold.
unfortunately it isnt quite like that this time but they still will appreciate just not as obscenely as the old generation adj/imp/mod stuff.

basically you get a good item that your only gonna have to pay decay on when you use it instead of paying markup every hunt or fraction of a hunt.

if you have the peds which would you rather? pay varying markups for varying availability of a buttload of a given L weapon all of which gets flushed down the loo as you use it.
or buy 1 unlimited version of said L weapon, use it to your hearts content only paying decay on its use to sell it for what you paid for it or better at a profit when your done with it.
Also unlike the L versions the UnL version would work like a non liquid intrest bearing investment that you can cash in when you have a financial emergency.
Click to expand...


When I read this I feel sorry for everyone who believes this is the whole truth. No offence ^^
Sure you can resell it and get everything back, perhaps even a little more as you said. Sure you don't have to pay MU on each new gun you buy.. INSTEAD you pay more EACH AND EVERY SHOT YOU FIRE with this unL gun instead of the L version. And the more you hunt, the more you loose. Only way to save money with that gun is to resell it as you said.

(this goes for all the unL guns I've seen so far, if there is a single one who this doens't apply to I'm sorry ^^ just check on entropiatools)
 
If I had the peds currently I would be happy to hand over 30kPEDS for an ISIS LR32 MODIFIED UNLIMITED :)

But noone seems to be fessing up who owns the 2 or 3 that dropped of this gun :(
 
Kay-T said:
Because the UnL SIB stuff is an investment in addition to being a useful tool.
UnL SIB is the SGA generation's version of us oldie's Mod Mercs and Imp mk2's and mod faps.
Those items are gonna appreciate in value over time
You buy a gun that you only pay a mark up on one time. you use it until your sick of it and then sell it for at least what you paid for it, possably more due to appreciation.

When stuff like mod mercs and shadow armor and mod faps first started dropping people they were tt food due to the dynamics of the game at the time. people who held on to them made a killing when they sold.
unfortunately it isnt quite like that this time but they still will appreciate just not as obscenely as the old generation adj/imp/mod stuff.

basically you get a good item that your only gonna have to pay decay on when you use it instead of paying markup every hunt or fraction of a hunt.

if you have the peds which would you rather? pay varying markups for varying availability of a buttload of a given L weapon all of which gets flushed down the loo as you use it.
or buy 1 unlimited version of said L weapon, use it to your hearts content only paying decay on its use to sell it for what you paid for it or better at a profit when your done with it.
Also unlike the L versions the UnL version would work like a non liquid intrest bearing investment that you can cash in when you have a financial emergency.
Click to expand...

No offense intended to you but tell that to those who paid high MU on UL items which then dropped more then 50% in a year or so. So no, your analysis is a hypothesis which belies what history should have taught you.

As for UL vs L i think a lot depends on the avg MU of the item in question and the relative game time you plan on using it. No point having a UL item which you use once in a month and paid insane MU on it. On the other hand if you plan on using it for 8 hrs/day everyday then depending on the L MU it might be justified.
 
mastermesh said:
It's really simple... L can't be repaired. When it breaks, it's a pain in the butt to find a new one in a shop, in a trade, or in the auction... UL items can be repaired, so even if they cost a lot up front, they are a long term investment. Just got to find a repair terminal.
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For what it's worth, that is pretty much my opinion as well. I was once at the mercy of the market and now I am not. I either have the PED to repair my items or I don't - either way the ball is in my court and my ability to play is not controlled by someone else or the availability of the item or the drop rate of 1 ingredient required to make the item. I paided once and I will never pay again.

However, another consideration must be what the person wants to hunt. For what I hunt, my UL items are perfectly fine. If I go somewhere else (CP is a favorite) I already know that I need something else so I will get the (L) gun to hunt effectively up there. Someone that requires high DPS based on the mob regen or the mob total health probably will not be too concerned about eco anyway ;) They are probably after the high-payoff mob.
 
Rayne Jade said:
For what it's worth, that is pretty much my opinion as well. I was once at the mercy of the market and now I am not. I either have the PED to repair my items or I don't - either way the ball is in my court and my ability to play is not controlled by someone else or the availability of the item or the drop rate of 1 ingredient required to make the item. I paided once and I will never pay again.

However, another consideration must be what the person wants to hunt. For what I hunt, my UL items are perfectly fine. If I go somewhere else (CP is a favorite) I already know that I need something else so I will get the (L) gun to hunt effectively up there. Someone that requires high DPS based on the mob regen or the mob total health probably will not be too concerned about eco anyway ;) They are probably after the high-payoff mob.
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You pay a little extra each time you fire your gun.. (compared to (L) and aslong as the L version dont have ridiculous MU)
 
Dhorm said:
You pay a little extra each time you fire your gun.. (compared to (L) and aslong as the L version dont have ridiculous MU)
Click to expand...
The ONLY way to "avoid ridiculous MU" is basically to craft the L gear that you yourself will use. However, even then, you are stuck paying markup on the ingredients unless you know for certain how to get the stuff yourself (difficult but not always impossible - but you'll probably pay more in hunting/mining losses then you would in markup in that case)

Someday, I would not mind doing that for Rutic Slo (L), as a long term goal that may take me many years to complete, but the crazy amount of ingredients and residue make that an almost impossible thing for many to do on a regular basis - really insane since that's a level I blueprint!!!...
 
There is no reason atm to buy UL SIB weapons thanks to MA's new strategy to decrease the desire for such weapons.

The tt of them is high which means a lot of peds stuck.
The base eco is 10% worse then the L versions.
There is one event after another where at least one type of L weapon with enough dps is available in high enough supply and low enough markup for a hardcore hunter.

The old time UL weapons, especially the ones with improved/adjustet/modified stats is another story.
 
mastermesh said:
The ONLY way to "avoid ridiculous MU" is basically to craft the L gear that you yourself will use. However, even then, you are stuck paying markup on the ingredients unless you know for certain how to get the stuff yourself (difficult but not always impossible - but you'll probably pay more in hunting/mining losses then you would in markup in that case)

Someday, I would not mind doing that for Rutic Slo (L), as a long term goal that may take me many years to complete, but the crazy amount of ingredients and residue make that an almost impossible thing for many to do on a regular basis - really insane since that's a level I blueprint!!!...
Click to expand...

With current (and has been for a long long time) you dont have to craft it yourself! Just buy it from auction straight off.
Also, your way of thinking is way off. If you craft a p5a(L) yourself you don't get the weapon at 100% MU (nevermind the mats right now) it is still WORTH 106%. That way of thinking is the same way feffoid hunters used to think; they bought an korss h400(L) and hunted feffoids and usually looted a new one before the old one broke and thus they were thinking they were hunting with a free weapon.

But as I said before, there ARE exceptions with very good eco (though not as good as L version :laugh:) but due to very low supply it would be worth buying it. mod/imp lr32 for example, and if(has it?) mod/imp korss 400 comes along same for that weapon


Thank you sitram :yup:
 
Another vote for the main reason being if you use so many of an item that you will pay the UL MU eventually, then yes, the UL is better. But in some cases, we're talking years, not months. You might want to check out the mining forum's discussions about l/ul amps for more details.

Also, somebody on here said they were skill farmers, so they had an added income off their UL CB19. They would just chip out until the cb19 was sib again, skill up, repeat.

For most people, we can't afford to pay the 1-100k up front for the UL, so we have to pay more in smaller chunks over time.
 
Some of you may have hinted at this, but I think the psychology of having to shell out 200-500 ped for new gear is far different than just repairing 20-30 ped...

also, after each run, it's easier to tell exactly how you're doing and where your ped went...
 
Dhorm said:
There are NO advantage in buying an unL weapon except that you won't have to buy a new one (which really isn't that hard even if you just BO it on auction)
Click to expand...

There are some other cases:
For plasma, beside the "event" weapons and a few ones dropped from iotas, once you're above beginner level (heatray-B(L)), there are no useful ones. (If there were any at higher levels, they'd probably have lol% either because of pvp or rarity - just see markup of mid-level handguns like HL-14(L) and carbines like LR-65(L)).

For melee/longblade, it feels stupid to pay 125% or more markup on ammo when you basically get nothing for it (consider, there are a few repairable ones). When auction runs out of decent (L) ones, depending on your level, you have to fallback to Determination if you want to contine skilling longblade. Dunno for shortblade but I guess 3c is a fairly common "backup weapon" (as it have an affordable markup and still has useful speed).

And the other reason, it's easier to keep track of day-to-day costs, if you can repair all stuff you have either before or after each hunt, you get a sum "110 ped" for instance, which you can compare with your loots for that run. The more (L) stuff you use, the harder it is (unless you remove every plate and every attachment in every item before sticking it into trade terminal). Or with (L) stuff you have a gun, you can hunt for a day or a weekend, and then you have to put up x hundred peds at once for a new weapon (or armor part(s)).

As for apis+dante: The "dante" part of it makes it sort'a expensive. And hard to buy, if you don't feel like giving money to resellers (those who like to "adjust" the market price). (Check the auction to see what I mean - start bid higher than average market price). And it's debated if it's the BP monopoly, the rarity of dunkel, that keeps the price up. And/or the theory that it's MA who wants to keep the number of Dantes ingame on a low level because of its eco. Because of rarity of BP clicks, the (L) amp thats corresponding to Dante is rather expensive (around 200%) and can be hard to find.

There is also a totally different explaination aswell: If you, like me, historically have skilled more laser (LWT) than BLP, then you probably want to keep on using laser weapons (at least for the daily hunting) to have laser rifle as the top hunting skill (the one to unlock hidden skills with). Using Apis doesn't make the LWT skill go up.
 
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I assume someone is buying a wep, will use for long time. I also assume ppl who use L items, r using the same one for a long time. It takes top 5 mins to count how much it cost to shoot with it (using amps) per run. The data is available for eternity after its once counted. BTW i just lolled at 6k++ offers on ul kors h400 o_O
 
Piotr said:
I assume someone is buying a wep, will use for long time. I also assume ppl who use L items, r using the same one for a long time. It takes top 5 mins to count how much it cost to shoot with it (using amps) per run. The data is available for eternity after its once counted. BTW i just lolled at 6k++ offers on ul kors h400 o_O
Click to expand...

As someone else stated, the cost of using apis isn't fixed.
Just consider a case where a mayhem starts but MA "forgets" to increase drops of generic components - it might first cause apis price to go up, and at a certain point become unavailible.

As for the korss, besides the fact it's an admitted eco gun (though no weapon to hunt spiders with), I guess its the rarity that keeps the interest up. So I guess it has two markets - "weapon collectors" and people who want to do eco grinds on low-level mobs. Think of the eco of korss 400+a106 if you're willing to stay on "normal" mobs with moderate regen.

Someone with less fat PED card could consider doing the same math with Breer P4(L)+a104.
 
1. UL gives you an ability to specialize. (no need to buy/mine/craft stuff in order to play.) - Charge and Go!
2. During Events - high TT weapons are essential since you dont need to waste time repairing them.
3. You can go to any planet without the need to pay for Transfer costs. So you're free to continue hunting.
4. Rarity factor.

I'd hate to stand at an Actioneer waiting to buy a weapon and see someone else HOF on a mob I just finished camping cause my gun broke. :S

You dont have to own one, but owning one does give you much more freedom and independence.


Some
 
I'm using apis/x1 + dante and plan to at least until I have uber hit and dmg levels. 2.8ish dpp beats basically any UL weapon I could use with decent dps other then a few UL SIB that would be nice to use and tier up. I don't think there really is any argument here other then a few UL being nicer and then having convenience of not looking at auction or crafting.
 
Cani Ostro said:
I bought mine because at my age I had to buy something. A convertible sportscar + 20 year old starlet or a UL gun. I bought the UL gun because that choice was much much cheaper. :sniper::monkey:
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm!!........But is it as much fun :scratch2:
 
For me the reason is simple. I can always repair my unlimited weapon even if I only have 10ped. I rarely have enough PED on me to both buy a weapon plus ammo to use it until it`s dead. My unlimited never becomes unusable so I never have to replace it. I can sell it at any time in the future if I want for more than tt value in the case of even semi decent UL weapons. I guess it`s a case of being able to afford hunting with L or UL all the time. But one thing is for sure. I want to have a decent weapon on me at all times.

I think having at least some unlimited gear in all of your professions is a must. They are always there and ready. Unless you can afford to always buy what you need and have backups in storage so you never have to waste time looking for new stuff.

Kind of a no brainer for me. Though once in a great while I will get a piece of L gear for the sib. And in the case of mining they last longer than the weapons and the older UL stuff just can`t do what some of the L does. Maybe if you spend a fortune getting it up to tier 10. But again it`s about cost and practicality.
 
It's quite simple actualy. You never get the % MU on your l stuff back. In fact MA can't even know how high it is at the time when you do p2p trades. So the only thing you get is 90% tt return. That's where the flaw is in the OP calculation. It assumes that the increased decay for UL SIB is calculated by 100%. However it's only 10% you are loosing... the cost added by markup is lost 100%.
At least that is what I believe an my hunting loggs seem to confirm it so far.
Never underestimate those extra few % you have paid someone to supply you with equipt because they are GONE from your account then. You have not given them to MA, but to another participiant.
 
Yes well it depends on if loot return is based on how much spending in tt or if mobs have somewhat preset values/kind of prefilled. If they do go based directly on spending tt this would also mean using a UL weapon that has a very high cost would be almost same % return as a more eco UL weapon. If mobs have a sort of preset value then being most eco as possible really is what matters for returns and I still don't see a reason for UL over L like apis other then convenience and fun (unless your UL weapon does reasonably better dmg/pec then apis + dante).
 
okay okay as i see it 1 year later the Adj V1 wasnt eco, but it was a shitload of fun for sure and made me skill up way faster than the usual apis/cb24/cb26/cb28 guns which i am using now. One day i will buy it back cause i loved the mini sweeper!
 
me and my parents own 2 isis lr 48 UL one is tier 3.1 and one is tier 4.8 we love them becuase we dont need to hunt down a gun to go hunting we dont need to pay that 125% Mu that it is at atm and when longtooths come I bet the MU on limited 48s are going to be 140% becuase people will not be hunting the mobs that drop the 48s that is what happened last year and we do not have to work on geitn it back up to the tier we want to use we share them when never one is not using them we trade it off so they do not have to use a limited gun and have to pay that extra 25% I have used the gun hunting proterons so far this month to use at least 4k ped of the gun so I saved 1k ped
 
tiering makes it worthwhile alone.

Your weapon (should) increase in market value as it is tiered by you.

You get the ability to use enhancers as you wish.

Tier 10 UL SIB = hell yea pvp. :)

And also the whole, dont have to find a crafter....prices can rise...etc...etc...etc...
 
I totally hate having to buy again and again new gun for my apis+dante combo, as it seems the minimum dps for mobs I am interested to hunt. They last so little time. I really hope I manage to get UL replacement one of these days, then I could even name it or smthng.

You know, its like strong, affectionate relationship, compared to ships passing in the night. :smoke:
 
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