MONETA BANK -Twin temp. closed

If items are safe should the bank be closed when a loan expires, why not just say,
"If a bank is closed due to a non-paid maintenance fee, you will not lose your item should a loan expire while the bank is closed."
rather than:
"All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk."

This is what I call a politicians answer.
Factually correct, but of no real help.

Get lost in fog, ask a politician where you are, and they will say "Lost in fog." Factually correct, but no help.

alh said:

After reading the wiki, the only way I can read Davids messages is that, yes, if you don't pay your loan at the scheduled date, your item will be taken from you...

Which.. between the lines means, if the bank hasn't payed its maintainence, you are screwed.

"defaults are safe"... a default is per definition when a lender hasn't payed his debt on the agreed date, and the date will pass without the lender being able to pay, so the loan will safely default (MA guarantees it!), and the bank will be an item richer

Click to expand...

That's what i read/interpret the quotet message too. But that's exactly what i asked in the first place, since it was unclear if you get it or not (basicly: It says bank gets it, but he refuse to admit it and let people believe it's safe (well from bank point of view it is, not from lenders point of view))

Well the main problem here is that most people doesn't understand the legal gibberish.

We need the PR guy to tell us the ropes in plain english and answer our very specific questions.

Even a "Gee guys, I have no idea, I will ask my boss and come back monday" would be a hundred times better and more helpful then re-iterating the same stupid legal text over and over again.

I'm sorry, but, how clear can it be without entering into every different possible default scenario's!

still.

If a bank is closed due to a non-paid maintenance fee, you will not lose your item should a loan expire while the bank is closed.

or same answer.

All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


No other "scenario's" will be answered in this thread, nor will I post again .-)

David

David|MindArk said:

"nor will I post again .-)"

David

Click to expand...

Am I the only one suffering de ja vu here?

Well congratulations, you managed to answer half the question.

Was it really that hard?

Now I'd like to know how long time I have to pay my loan, if my loan expire when the bank is closed.
But I guess the chances of getting a full answer is extremely slim...

We are asking about technical specifics, so YES, PLEASE go into specifics... You don't have to go into _every_ specific, but at least you could go into the ONE very important specific everyone is asking about...

David|MindArk said:

I'm sorry, but, how clear can it be without entering into every different possible default scenario's!

still.

If a bank is closed due to a non-paid maintenance fee, you will not lose your item should a loan expire while the bank is closed.

or

All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


No other "scenario's" will be answered in this thread, nor will I post again .-)

David

Click to expand...

David,

Hope this helps :

http://www.trans4mind.com/mind-development/course2.html



Atami

David|MindArk said:

I'm sorry, but, how clear can it be without entering into every different possible default scenario's!

Click to expand...

There was only a single scenario in question, and we've expected answers to this single scenario, not "to all possible scenarios"!

Still, that doesnt answer all the questions:

Will we have to pay interest for the elongated loan period?

And how long will it be elongated, do we have to be there the day they pay their fee, or otherwise it'll expire anyway? How will we know?

Or will it all be handled through support cases?
(with the well-known support efficiency... )

David did answer the question lmao.... you just didn't get a specific scenario answer....

I give for example the mentor system..... if your mentor goes MIA for many months after you've 'graduated', a support case will get you 'free' of the mentor...

I'm sure if a bank went MIA for many months, a simple suppoort case would transfer your ped to the bank owners ped card, and the item back to you

~Red

edit: PS David is always this cheeky He has to be specific in his answer, but vaque at the same time.. it's part of the job... Imagine you were a figurehead for a soda company...

Reporter: is caffeine addictive?
Soda Company: We've found that the levels of caffeine in our soda are acceptable
Reporter: You didn't answer the question
Soda Company: We've found that the levels of caffeine in our soda are acceptable
Reporter: Dude...

Dion Red Strike said:

I'm sure if a bank went MIA for many months, a simple suppoort case would transfer your ped to the bank owners ped card, and the item back to you

~Red

Click to expand...

Not helpful.

Nice that you have so much trust in MA,
but the past has shown this may as well be nothing more than just naive!

I, for one, prefer clear statements on the risk i'm taking, better safe than sorry.

I wonder how many people posting in this thread have actually used this bank for a loan I have and I believe that David has answered your question the best he can.
When it comes to terms and conditions no company can cover every single scenario in its terms and conditions and I believe you are being a little petty to keep moving the goalposts. I for one will keep using this bank and if I was unhappy with its service then I have a choice to use another.

David|MindArk said:

still.

If a bank is closed due to a non-paid maintenance fee, you will not lose your item should a loan expire while the bank is closed.

Click to expand...

Thanks for anwsering. That's clear enough i think. Why was it so hard to say it?

As i said, it's absolutly ok to say, you have to ask supervisors first before anwsering a question, since it's impossible for someone to know everything. Just posting the same text over and over isn't helpfull. I think everyone will appreciate it, if you tell it in that way that you need to gather more information before you can anwser it.

Dion Red Strike said:

David did answer the question lmao.... you just didn't get a specific scenario answer....

Click to expand...

Well, i think the anwser is fair enough that you won't lose your items. If you have to pay additional interests on it or not isn't that important imho. If you put your ImpMKII as collateral then you wouldnt mind if you have to pay 300-400 ped more or less interests if you got your beloved uber item back

Dion Red Strike said:

edit: PS David is always this cheeky He has to be specific in his answer, but vaque at the same time.. it's part of the job... Imagine you were a figurehead for a soda company...

Click to expand...

Yea well, that's ok if he tells that he can't anwser it immediatly and have to ask back his supervisors before anwsering.

Better be sure and ask before telling something wrong. The important thing is just to tell "Sorry, i can't give any informations yet. I will post again after consultation with my supervisors". That's fair enough (if we get the anwser after a few days)

Such a direct question and so many dodgy answers (and it wasn't like someone was asking about the loot system or anything).
Very bad PR.
I don't use the 'bank' system (don't have a need for it) so I don't realy care about getting a straight answer here, but this shows a bit of the MO of MA.
Gess we just have to keep trusting blindly.

(this thread realy got me bad fealings about EU/MA)

Sorry about going a bit off topic and so negative.

ZeMag said:

Such a direct question and so many dodgy answers (and it wasn't like someone was asking about the loot system or anything).
Very bad PR.
I don't use the 'bank' system (don't have a need for it) so I don't realy care about getting a straight answer here, but this shows a bit of the MO of MA.
Gess we just have to keep trusting blindly.

(this thread realy got me bad fealings about EU/MA)

Sorry about going a bit off topic and so negative.

Click to expand...

no more loot for you!

*sorry for the off topic post too*

wizzszz said:

Not helpful.

Nice that you have so much trust in MA,
but the past has shown this may as well be nothing more than just naive!

I, for one, prefer clear statements on the risk i'm taking, better safe than sorry.

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I don't get.... no offense personally to you wizzszz... but in general.. (WARNING: OFF TOPIC)

Why do people keep playing if they don't trust MA?

They don't...

Ok then, if they don't trust MA... and they don't play...

why do they continue to troll the forums then?

To give MA 'bad press'? It seems most of adults have enough common sense to know which side of the line we sit on...

Becuase they are still interested in the game? Then why bother even pointing out that you don't trust MA if you want to come back? Once trust is lost, it generally never comes back...

Yes, I trust MA, or else I wouldn't have placed so much money in the system... yes, I think some things need to be changed, but, I still trust MA's judgement, or else I would leave...

sorry for the ramble, but, really, he did answer the question.

Dion Red Strike said:

This is exactly what I don't get.... no offense personally to you wizzszz... but in general.. (WARNING: OFF TOPIC)

Why do people keep playing if they don't trust MA?

They don't...

Ok then, if they don't trust MA... and they don't play...

why do they continue to troll the forums then?

To give MA 'bad press'? It seems most of adults have enough common sense to know which side of the line we sit on...

Becuase they are still interested in the game? Then why bother even pointing out that you don't trust MA if you want to come back? Once trust is lost, it generally never comes back...

Yes, I trust MA, or else I wouldn't have placed so much money in the system... yes, I think some things need to be changed, but, I still trust MA's judgement, or else I would leave...

sorry for the ramble, but, really, he did answer the question.

Click to expand...

You logic is seriously flawed, your conclusions at least questionable.

The world isn't all black and white, and being critical is not necessarily a sign of mistrust, whereas blind trust is a sign of naivity.

MA makes us accept their rules (the eula) everytime we log in, but once we ask for clear rules applying for MA as a service provider, we get dodgy bullshit back.

And you need to distinguish trust within the real world (my PEDs are guaranteed somehow due to real world laws) from ingame mechanics, (read: markup) which is a pure virtual value (up to now only marginally covered by IRL laws) and therefor guaranteed by noone but MA.

If MA refuses to give at least basic guarantees about the safety of items, markup values are void, which in turn, endangers the whole economy system.

You reduce this to : No trust? So why play? If you play, you do trust MA, which means you have to trust them with handling loaned items properly, too?

C'mon, think it over...

/Edit:

And FYI: I do play, almost daily, and i'm not trolling, nor am i trying to ruin MAs reputation, i like the game, but i think MA is doing themselves a disservice by their award winning bad customer service!
Especially from a real cash economy, one could expect a way higher standard, and a more fair and reasonable way of proceeding.

(and thereby mindlessly risking your investment)

The problem is, that MA has a bad information policy and I can't help it, it looks like a " don't say a word, they might call us out on it" policy...

Best example was Mayhem...ppl. asked MA is prekilling and preherding is allowed...ofcourse and as expected we only got the answer AFTER the event ended.

While other Members gave wrong information in the beginning ( prekilling is against sportsmanship ) we didn't, we thought its against the rules.

Would have saved ppl. lot of peds and angry relatives during X-mas if MA made the rules clear from beginning.

And yes, you can play and be suspicious at the same time!
I am happy to pay MA the fee they take to play EU, but I want to be treated as a customer! Even for Europe ( let alone customer heaven USA ) the customer service is...ehhmm....lousy.

Limnea said:

The problem is, that MA has a bad information policy and I can't help it, it looks like a " don't say a word, they might call us out on it" policy...

Best example was Mayhem...ppl. asked MA is prekilling and preherding is allowed...ofcourse and as expected we only got the answer AFTER the event ended.

While other Members gave wrong information in the beginning ( prekilling is against sportsmanship ) we didn't, we thought its against the rules.

Would have saved ppl. lot of peds and angry relatives during X-mas if MA made the rules clear from beginning.

And yes, you can play and be suspicious at the same time!
I am happy to pay MA the fee they take to play EU, but I want to be treated as a customer! Even for Europe ( let alone customer heaven USA ) the customer service is...ehhmm....lousy.

Click to expand...

MA refers to the people that provide their paychecks as "depositors"
If They saw us as customers maybe we would get some acceptable customer service.

This could be completely sorted by adding a loan repayment tab on the trade terminal. The loan could be repayed while on CP or CND without having to return to the bank you got the loan from and if it's inaccessible for whatever reason.

So what happens in RL when the bank you drew a loan against closes?

Who are you going to pay your loan back to with the bank closed? At what point does the reimbursements take place?

What is the penalty against the bank for allowing its business to fall into default? Kinda BS that when the bank fails to meet its obligations theres no penalty in favor of the one who didnt default(the borrower) and MA has to step in and be a bill collector to keep their incompetent bank owners in business.

Things shouldnt even be called banks anyways and should drop as pawn shop keepers from Foul Stalkers.

maybe the owner noticed what kinda mistake it was to buy a bank..

Originally Posted by David|MindArk

If a bank is closed due to a non-paid maintenance fee, you will not lose your item should a loan expire while the bank is closed.

Click to expand...

but you'll loose it as soon the bank opens up again since your loan expired well maybe we'll grant a 5 minute countdown during which you can pay back your loan to keep your item...

David|MindArk said:

I have read the whole thread and without having to make an example of every different case scenario I state the following:


All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.


David

Click to expand...

sorry to say this now on this step......... but ....... what if MA is not honorfull with count of members inside Eu since different people may have different accounts ???? Lotsa people think about , just to let you know.
I only try to talk about the thoughts several old palyers inside EU may think about after years of ripp off.....


then..... oki let me resume...... Ma states over 500k Users and indeed those are much lower because of different Avatars owned by one Account.

hm sorry, but Im really angry about the way Ma decides to go with fellow EU Participiants since years now, and to make it clear the ones who are not Millionairs RL ( maybe Familys with kids like I am ) but stil try to make their way like I try to do ???


....... on 1 point you state that bank transactions are secured by MA.......

but hell now the evil way, what if MA states much more acoounts inside EU then definately given away because of multiple Avatar counts by several EU players ??? (probably true) then its for sure that EU never will have this amount of member count as they state official ..... and finally a lowered guarantee of insurance on Ma`s side because they simply forgot to calculate their monthly or yearly amount of avatars paying taxes to MA ??? (no matter if LA or Shop Owners, maybe Mega Investors like (due to I like him no state about) ........ thats not a fair way to handle true EU Avatars (maybe old ones too) and neither a fair way to handle Newbies arrrival on Planet Eudoria.....

You see...... after 4 and a half year Gameplay I`m doing a comming out about the way MA may trie to go..... and I am not similiar with, just to let you know ^^ .... and Im really sure that I am not the only one feeling kinda Ripped off since years now......... so, oki MA if you want to kick me pls do so...... but keep in mind that you ever will be in Need to give statements like this one I asked about will stalk you in future, when you don`t give a clear statement....... to your fellow Entropians.


Now, you can ban me or whatever because I tell about what s rumbling my mind..... but Im sure several other players and truely Old Players too, start to think about MA strategics same way

and yes Im sure the HoF System is conected primary to the amount of skills on every single Avatar inside EU also maybe on the amount of monthly deposited Peds ....... since I sold off most of my skills my Loot is definately horrible according to my former Loots as I used to have Mega Skills but I myself (only a Florist one with husband and 2 little Kids) pay nearly 200 Euro per month / and thats real a lot of money for a 4- headed Family in Germany) in hope to make my EU way, but simply got broke every time I try to make success......... so Hofs and ATHs maybe Skill related or kinda Food to make Noobs adicted to EU since they dont know how to handle a big loot efficiently .... maybe with winning options .......... nice try MA


But hell I really hope you will take much more care in future about your fellow Entropians then you do now ..... A shame for such a great Game EU definately is.

So people, If I got banned from MA due to my thaught that got my mind busy according to my long time EU /PE experience....... pls think about the words I told in here..... MA definately needs to change some important Things in future..... Pls go on this way ^^ and try to get your Rights



Oh, and please 711 let this Thread going on. It would be a great guesture according to your loyal EU.com people



and if you decide to ban me...... pls its only my own view of things since ages ....... my Socy (EM) has nothing to do with !!!!

It´s only my own will to make it clear and EM for sure is one - if not the best organized Socy inside EU for true.


MA please think about !!!



yours

Sonne

BuuuuumpediiiiiBummmmp

Sonne said:

sorry to say this now on this step......... but .......

Click to expand...

Does your post contain anything of relevance to this discussion about banks?

As far as I can see it is just a general moan about duplicate accounts, MA's policy of stating the number of accounts instead of the number of active players and the way that hofs and ATHs are distributed. Or am I missing something here?

I doubt MA will ban you for saying things that others have said before. About the worst that can happen is a moderator may turn up and prune your post.

Midori Fairlona said:

Does your post contain anything of relevance to this discussion about banks?

As far as I can see it is just a general moan about duplicate accounts, MA's policy of stating the number of accounts instead of the number of active players and the way that hofs and ATHs are distributed. Or am I missing something here?

I doubt MA will ban you for saying things that others have said before. About the worst that can happen is a moderator may turn up and prune your post.

Click to expand...

I think the thread starter doesn't mind that Sonne is going off topic...threads are dynamic...we cannot comment on thread balancing

Limnea said:

I think the thread starter doesn't mind that Sonne is going off topic...threads are dynamic...we cannot comment on thread balancing

Click to expand...

One tends to ramble when one is PWI

Midori, yes it has something to do with banks also.......

If I understood it the right way - MA is a Shareholding and has to public release the exact individual usercount and financial State to all Stockholders.
And not wonder, I also will try to get MA Stock next Saturday and I would be afraid to loose my money by froud.

my Husband will try to get a stock within the next week if its true that MA ownes stocks.


I am afraid that I will have to pay on cause of Stock Froud.

since MA probably wants to (boast/brag) himselve with Exchange I am now not sure anymore what to think about to be true, I try to take a bit more care about what I will do inside EU in future.


so this definately has something to do with working banks inside EU too.

steffel said:

but you'll loose it as soon the bank opens up again since your loan expired well maybe we'll grant a 5 minute countdown during which you can pay back your loan to keep your item...

Click to expand...

im not sure i was ever likly to use a bank, but given this scenario, and knowing that one bank has been closed for a period, i know i would certainly never use that bank now and it would be a consideration for other more active banks.

The position David|Mindark has set out is clear, yet utterly fails to deal with such a very likley scenario. for how long after a bank is open do they delay the loan repayment deadline if at all? 5 minutes? an hour? a day? two days? the bank was shut when your loan was due, two days before you go on holiday. now the bank has reopened, will the loan be held pending your return? for how long... or to put another way, how far does that guarantee reach?

i think the answer is for MA to enforce rent payments on the banks. or do away with them all together, bit of a funny idea that they have rent payments after investing so much on reflection.