The growing universe and the ability to move in it

jetsina

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There are 2 big points for me here:
Firstly - while waiting to join NI, the join-up page suggested joining up anyway and moving across when NI became available. As with RT there was no mention of any fee to be paid by ppl joining up specifically for NI early, but starting somewhere else... there should AT LEAST be the availability of one-off transfer for all avatars (or newish ones). It is simply wrong to be stuck on where you choose to start and to have to pay to even visit somewhere else to try it out as well!

Secondly - the single avatar issue! It is becoming more and more incredible for me that people are only officially allowed one avatar on a platform sub-divided into various business areas. I find it staggering that new planet entrants are willing to accept that the very closest player base to them must pay to visit them, while ppl with no prior contact with MA can create an avatar on their planet for free.
It's like saying that on a shopping high street people who go into one shop for free must then pay to go into any others, regardless of whether they want to buy anything or just look around. That's CRAZY!


So, either free-up the travel MUCH more than now (maybe with forced-return weekly offers, and free travel for avatars with under a certain agility..etc - do some thinking), OR allow more than one avatar officially (maybe with restrictions, but do SOMETHING)! It is also absolutely wrong that honest players are tempted to ask non-players to sign up and then hand over shared access (or do something else) in order to get around this 'universal transport' problem!

Ty for allowing me to express my opinion on this matter - and it seems that general discussion is the best area for this.
To all commentators on this thread: please do not write anything here which breaks the rules of this forum. I trust that this thread can then continue - and will gather support for a change to the system to be made soon...
 
The TP fee is a temporary measure untill the Spaceship profession returns.


Originally hangar owners flew people to new planets, Soon that will return. The tp fee's go to hangar owners that dont have thier spaceship yet.

Multiple Avatars are not allowed because its too open to be exploited in this Real cash Economy.


The best you can do is contact support to see if they will relocate, and if not delete your current avatar and allow you to make a new one.


As for how much it costs, well thats up to the hangar owners to decide once thier profession returns.
 
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Well... i agreee with you.

Someone once asked if there will be a possibility of freeing up HDD space by uninstalling Rocktropia and installing it again only when he needed to go there...

Would be a nice feature for me and few others.
 
Hi Stave - ty for your very fast reply.
We all know that the word 'soon' is problematic to say the very least... a company can lose thousands of customers by having its doors open but with completely unattractive conditions during 'work in progress' which could last for 'ages'. There is so much potential here - why provide people with dozens of 'valid' reasons to stop when these same customers would probably actually prefer to stay around.

I understand that the RCE and multiple-avatar issue 'may' involve complications which most people are unaware of, but ways must then be found which do not discourage honesty amongst the honest. If transfers are granted upon request by sending a support ticket, then that is like booking a ticket for relocation and I see no problem with that...

Your last comment (before you edited it ;)) of deleting your current avatar (with skills etc) is, I hope, not meant seriously. I expect many people who don't like where they have started simply won't bother to do that and would probably feel 'cheated/robbed' anyway. Not a good experience or positive business practise option that one...

Edit: while I'm editing... I imagine that right now as I write, ppl are giving free rides by boat and plane across to Medusa. I, personally, may try and charge a 'symbolic' 50 pecs or 150 sweat or so, as a suggested price in this RCE game where, indeed, there is an economy side too. It is almost irony that FPC is implementing the 'hanger' idea themselves now that they got a chance to do so, and that the users will probably be doing 'the right thing' with it! I hope so anyway....
I'll be on in a couple of hours hopefully to find out ;)
 
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There are 2 big points for me here:
Firstly - while waiting to join NI, the join-up page suggested joining up anyway and moving across when NI became available. As with RT there was no mention of any fee to be paid by ppl joining up specifically for NI early, but starting somewhere else... there should AT LEAST be the availability of one-off transfer for all avatars (or newish ones). It is simply wrong to be stuck on where you choose to start and to have to pay to even visit somewhere else to try it out as well!

If this is the case, you should ask Rocktropia / Next Island for a refund of the fee to move to those planets. This is not something MA or FPC are in any way guilty or party to. Its a Rocktropia / Next Island issue. Those planet partners should be taking care of the transport of their early starters.

Secondly - the single avatar issue! It is becoming more and more incredible for me that people are only officially allowed one avatar on a platform sub-divided into various business areas. I find it staggering that new planet entrants are willing to accept that the very closest player base to them must pay to visit them, while ppl with no prior contact with MA can create an avatar on their planet for free.
It's like saying that on a shopping high street people who go into one shop for free must then pay to go into any others, regardless of whether they want to buy anything or just look around. That's CRAZY!

Well, in the real world you only have one avatar. If you want to go to shop for fine wines at French prizes, surprise, you have to pay for a plane ticket to France. Even worse, you have to pay for the ticket back too, and you may very well be taxed. Something that is not happening in EU. If you order those items over the net, again, in both the real world and EU, you have to pay for transport. Worse, in real world you have to pay taxes too.

Why should existing planet partners accept that new planets can just come and steal their players?

So, either free-up the travel MUCH more than now (maybe with forced-return weekly offers, and free travel for avatars with under a certain agility..etc - do some thinking), OR allow more than one avatar officially (maybe with restrictions, but do SOMETHING)! It is also absolutely wrong that honest players are tempted to ask non-players to sign up and then hand over shared access (or do something else) in order to get around this 'universal transport' problem!

And this part really makes no sense to me at all.
 
Hi Stave - ty for your very fast reply.
We all know that the word 'soon' is problematic to say the very least... a company can lose thousands of customers by having its doors open but with completely unattractive conditions during 'work in progress' which could last for 'ages'. There is so much potential here - why provide people with dozens of 'valid' reasons to stop when these same customers would probably actually prefer to stay around.

But this is part of the deal and they know it from the start. Think of it in other terms - if you are a new adopter, you will be the first one to know where the best places to mine / hunt are. You will also be there when the first blueprints drop. In many ways, you get to re-live the early days of EU. Which would totally not be so if the new planets were to be just a new funky way to call extra continents. Even though there will not be that many people around in the beginning and you might be paying more due to auction transport fees (though ... i think there is plenty of scope for interplanetary merchants here, if cargo amounts remain unrestricted).
 
Multiple Avatars are not allowed because its too open to be exploited in this Real cash Economy.
However,... there's plenty of examples of multiple avatars around if you read the forums enough... something should be done about that if it really is the official rule...

Why should existing planet partners accept that new planets can just come and steal their players?
If the fee was free, as Rocktropia's website originally stated, prior to the change in that website's wording (and possibly as Next Island may have advertised inadvertantly), there'd be no "stealing" as avatars would travel freely around the virtual universe and cause decay costs on all planets instead of on a monopoly planet they first started on - good for all parties, both planet partners, MA ,and us. Might hurt the hanger owners, but then maybe they can introduce a new system for them. Perhaps a new planet for Akbal and Cymbi or however you spell the robot's planets names, and the only way to access those would be through the hanger system... Then... make it so any auction, if it was not where you were, you'd have to go to the planet, and/or the auctioneer that the auction was started on in that planet to pick up the stuff without a transport fee - and make the transport fee add in to the hanger owner's income. Maybe even charge small transport fees if the auctioneers involved are on the same continent. The "find your auctioneer to not pay transport fee" could be a new quest and get more people moving around the planets in all corners of them instead of just standing at Twin or PA.
 
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Just to clear up[ a bit of miss information...

Hangar owners NEVER went to other planets. They only shuttled people between asteriods and the planet. Hanager owners payed decays and operating costs and were not regulated in pricing nor in availability. Do not expect travel to planets to actually become cheaper then traveling by TP as that simply will not happen with the system as is. Oh btw try to get a flight somewhere when there is 5 or more planets and only 100 or so hangars with MAYBE 15 pilots that actually give a shit about their investment.

Multiple avatars seriously would be a waste of major ped with the costs to skill up. Unless you can dump half a million dollars into EU Id advise against trying to run multiple ava's regardless of how many friends and family are willing to hand you the accounts. Besides on the off chance MA REALY becomes bound to enforce this you and many will lose ALL of your ava's and investments.

As far as being told to start now and move later... these are tactics commonly used in here. In time you will be able to see what is hype and what is reality like the rest of us. For now its best since you are here and established you make use of that time researching past happenings so you may too understand what is truely achiveable.
 
I would embrace a "visitor ticket" for everyone per each new planet. But especially for newbies. Just one visit and transport back to start or to next planet. Maybe with limited duration of stay. I have never been at RT so far and I will not go to NI. I am interested in Ozi's Arkadia and will surely visit it as soon as it will be online ... let's see if it's a oneway-ticket.
 
Lootable round-trip-tickets would be nice as long as the hangars are not back.
 
Long as the travel fees remain the new planets wont see any business from me.

Comparing these fees to fees in real life does not hold water. This is the click of a button. There is nothing involved that requires a fee to be charged. Its the same as going from 1 tp to any other on the same planet. They are charging you the fee for doing NOTHING.
 
Lootable round-trip-tickets would be nice as long as the hangars are not back.

This is a great idea if it can be done. I think the idea can be expanded on though.
Not implemented until the hanger owners have their ships to be fair to current situation.
The ticket could be used with the hanger owner for cost of decay in someway for their ship -
example: The ticket repairs their ship for X amount or puts in fuel of X amount or choice by hanger owner.

It doesn't though help new players that spawned onto a planet they don't like. I wrote this in another forum:

"I honestly believe, what is going to hurt all of the new planets the most and the whole concept overall is the transport fees. This will totally stop the needed growth of all of the planet partners dead in their tracks. People need to be able to explore and 'find a home'. A new player may not like the planet they first go to and remove the game from their PC since they don't have the $4 USD on their account to look someplace else or explore someplace else. They may have loved world X .... but they spawned into world Z.... and are lost forever. People will go where the best places are, period. That's up to the planet partners to develop that content. Competition is a good thing but is totally prevented with the fees."
 
Long as the travel fees remain the new planets wont see any business from me.

Comparing these fees to fees in real life does not hold water. This is the click of a button. There is nothing involved that requires a fee to be charged. Its the same as going from 1 tp to any other on the same planet. They are charging you the fee for doing NOTHING.

The issue is not the cost. The issue is you are moving your avatar from one game -one planet partner - to another. It is done in order to maintain the separateness of the planets, and to insure both that planet partners will have to primarily bring in their own players and that they will not lose them all instantly.

The fact that it inhibits people from moving between planets is not a problem, it is the whole point.

:beerchug:

Miles
 
Ive heard the above stated by many players, but never by MA, FPC, etc.

And still even if true, its a bad reason(in my opinion, but im not alone). Its going to smother the 'universe' before it even begins.

Another poster just said it well so ill just quote that.

"I honestly believe, what is going to hurt all of the new planets the most and the whole concept overall is the transport fees. This will totally stop the needed growth of all of the planet partners dead in their tracks. People need to be able to explore and 'find a home'. A new player may not like the planet they first go to and remove the game from their PC since they don't have the $4 USD on their account to look someplace else or explore someplace else. They may have loved world X .... but they spawned into world Z.... and are lost forever. People will go where the best places are, period. That's up to the planet partners to develop that content. Competition is a good thing but is totally prevented with the fees."

Beyond initial retention is long term retention. Someone who can wake up on any given day and decide which game they want to play at will, will likely stick with the game as a whole much longer. The fees will turn people off to that. You logged out on rocktopia, and tomorrow you don't want to be there, well its fee day. You move to calypso, the next day you dont want to be there....well its fee day again. So you move to next island, then the next day there is an event on rocktopia you want to attend....well guess what its fee day again.... Stupidity.....

Its very likely that they will turn off many times more potential customers with the fee then any one planet partner will retain with it.
 
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IN DEVELOPMENT
Due to the crowded space around Calypso in this phase of resettlement, civilian space traffic has been grounded. Also, hangars have not been rebuilt yet. Travel between CND and Calypso is currently serviced by a temporary teleport service. A one way ticket is 25 PED. This fee will be distributed among the hangar owners when civilian space travel service is reinstated. NOTE: This is a temporary solution.

http://www.planetcalypso.com/news/pages/2009/08/17/2808/index.xml
 
The TP fee is a temporary measure untill the Spaceship profession returns.


Originally hangar owners flew people to new planets, Soon that will return.


Regardless of what is claimed as being "In Development", I don't believe hangars and spaceship travel will ever return.

Even if they do return, it won't matter to me anyways.
 
Good discussion:) Seeing that we are in a expanding Universe with planets comming into the whole, Hangars comming back just wont be enough at all. For example we will need a spacehub. Something reminicent of CND with docking ports and shops, like a space airport where travelers can relax between flights and choose various destinations. Massive arrivals and departure screen for travelinfo and a terminal for pilots to type in ETAs and ETDs. That would make it easier and efficient, than just chatspamming for passangers. Introduction of various kinds of spacecraft and not simply the old 5 passanger spacecraft of old. :wise:

Another idea would be Virtual Movie theatres to actually enjoy RL movies on this very new spacestation travelhub. Perhaps this might just mean that MA/FPC would have to go into contract with hollywood Movie-retailers, or a good agreement not to breach any RL copyright laws.
 
You belong to FPC, if you move to another planet they no longer get your decay.
 
40 ped aint that much.

I'm more worried about the ability/cost to cycle loot back to peds on the new planets. If the playerbase is low to start with, its going to be difficult to sell for MU to locals, and the interplanet transport cost of auction will make it hard for me to price my loot competively so people at other locations buy it. If I have to TT most of my loot then I am guaranteed playing at a loss.

Freight costs are the real problem that needs to be dealt with.

Regards,
KikkiJikki
 
Just a thought, but...what about different space vehicles, fighters, battleships, etc???
 
Long as the travel fees remain the new planets wont see any business from me.

And? This accomplishes exactly what is intended. People staying on their planet of origin. Or, if you look at it from the other side, it acts as a barrier to people who signed up to Rocktropia, but finding that they are fed up with collecting beer cans and mining folk ingots nobody wants to running off to Calypso with all the excitement and its robot wars and belkar any newb can mine and sell for 120%+. Or really these days, the lyst any newb can mine and still sell for 105-110%.

Comparing these fees to fees in real life does not hold water. This is the click of a button. There is nothing involved that requires a fee to be charged. Its the same as going from 1 tp to any other on the same planet. They are charging you the fee for doing NOTHING.

No. They are charging you a fee so you don't go elsewhere. The whole point of the fee is to make us a more captive audience. Because that is in the interest of the planet partners. It is entirely irrelevant if it is more work or not than a regular tp. And this and licqour taxes are exactly the same thing.
 
No. They are charging you a fee so you don't go elsewhere. The whole point of the fee is to make us a more captive audience. Because that is in the interest of the planet partners. It is entirely irrelevant if it is more work or not than a regular tp. And this and licqour taxes are exactly the same thing.
That's brilliant. I would have thought that paying me a fee, or at least giving me a cookie from time to time, would be more captivating.
 
Look at this from another Point of view:

Hangar owners have invest a lot of money in their virtual property. How should they be compensated during delay of Hangar return without TP-fee. From lootpool? No thanks!

( No, I don't own a Hangar :) )

And to *not* compensate them would be the baddest move at all. Why should some future investors put in their money with the knowing of what happens to hangar owners (if not compensated)?

The TP fee is a pain in the ass for individuals, but from a business point of view, there is no way to make it free.
 
Do not expect travel to planets to actually become cheaper then traveling by TP as that simply will not happen with the system as is. Oh btw try to get a flight somewhere when there is 5 or more planets and only 100 or so hangars with MAYBE 15 pilots that actually give a shit about their investment.

If hangars and space travel are reimplemented then it will done so in tandem with the current tp option (Neverdie has posted this I think).

Therefore the space flight fuel costs, decay and pricing will inevitably be pitched to give pilots the opportunity to undercut interplanetary travel via tps.

This discounted price would have to be at least 10 peds per avatar I would think to give ships any purpose unless there will be other advantages of travelling by ship as opposed to tp.

Let's say pilots could make 40 peds per interplanetary flight with a full ship and let's also assume that (eventually) there will be enough business to entice currently inactive hangar owners (who would be attracted by a steady income stream).

Well the increased number of pilots (further boosted if new planets have their own hangars) plus the 'cap' on pricing if the tp option remains will inevitably lead to a downward pressure on the cost of space travel.
 
Look at this from another Point of view:

Hangar owners have invest a lot of money in their virtual property. How should they be compensated during delay of Hangar return without TP-fee. From lootpool? No thanks!

( No, I don't own a Hangar :) )

And to *not* compensate them would be the baddest move at all. Why should some future investors put in their money with the knowing of what happens to hangar owners (if not compensated)?

The TP fee is a pain in the ass for individuals, but from a business point of view, there is no way to make it free.

What if and when Hangars are reintruduced? They get those hangars back right? So am I to understand that TP fees are to compensate them for revenues lost whilst not being able to ferry peops all over? It seems that for as long as Hangars and spacecraft taxis are absent, revenues are generated from TP fees and at this rate, pilots shall recieve way more money than when they wouldve normally, if hangars were not removed. especially taking in considderation the current expensive costs via the TPs. In the past pilots charged an average of 20 peds per flight one way CND, and 10 peds to CP, per person. Now its 40 peds per one way TP anywhere, and 25 peds CND. If i was a pilot I certainly would not mind hangars and spacehips be kept out of the picture for as long as possible, rubbing my hands in waiting eagerly for recieving an insane amount of peds eventually. And when hangars were removed, did Pilots not recieve the property vallue in peds at the time?
 
What if and when Hangars are reintruduced? They get those hangars back right? So am I to understand that TP fees are to compensate them for revenues lost whilst not being able to ferry peops all over? It seems that for as long as Hangars and spacecraft taxis are absent, revenues are generated from TP fees and at this rate, pilots shall recieve way more money than when they wouldve normally, if hangars were not removed. especially taking in considderation the current expensive costs via the TPs. In the past pilots charged an average of 20 peds per flight one way CND, and 10 peds to CP, per person. Now its 40 peds per one way TP anywhere, and 25 peds CND. If i was a pilot I certainly would not mind hangars and spacehips be kept out of the picture for as long as possible, rubbing my hands in waiting eagerly for recieving an insane amount of peds eventually. And when hangars were removed, did Pilots not recieve the property vallue in peds at the time?


To answer a few of your questions.

Hangar owners are currently recieving between 20-40ped per day in TP payments,so comparing that to what a full time pilot could earn daily its not exactly an "Insane amount of peds" is it.

And when hangars were removed owners got nothing but a promise that they would be back 'within 12 mths' which turned in to more than 12 months which then became 'by the end of the year' which has now become 'sometime at the beginning of the year but in limited capacity' ie: they will just be unlimited vehicles and wont be able to travel to other planets with no date as to when full functionality will be re-implemented.

The deeds are still not trade-able so even if you wanted or needed to sell out you can't.

Still think its such a sweet deal?
 
To answer a few of your questions.

Hangar owners are currently recieving between 20-40ped per day in TP payments,so comparing that to what a full time pilot could earn daily its not exactly an "Insane amount of peds" is it.

And when hangars were removed owners got nothing but a promise that they would be back 'within 12 mths' which turned in to more than 12 months which then became 'by the end of the year' which has now become 'sometime at the beginning of the year but in limited capacity' ie: they will just be unlimited vehicles and wont be able to travel to other planets with no date as to when full functionality will be re-implemented.

The deeds are still not trade-able so even if you wanted or needed to sell out you can't.

Still think its such a sweet deal?

OK TY for clearing that up 4 me. And No its not such a sweet deal, seeing that there are so many ex- pilots who want to chip out and leave.
 
Just a thought, but...what about different space vehicles, fighters, battleships, etc???


EU might get something like that in the future:

http://www.playmmo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6099


6-a: Ventures into space will come in 2005. We hope to bring real time space ship combat with robot ships and other space living entities. Asteroid mining will also be a part of it. I envision a major star ship with a crew of 100 people all manning various functions of the ship, like engineering, guns, torpedos, strategic command, shields, power distribution, hull repairs, etc, allwoing for major epic battles in the sky.
 
.... And when hangars were removed, did Pilots not recieve the property vallue in peds at the time?

jod has answered you already. To the point quoted above: The TT Value is 1 PED or so, they have paid around 90k. I am not sure understanding you right, but if you think they have get their mony back after removing hangars: No :)

(Sorry if I have interpreted the quote wrong, my english is not the very best :) )
 
i think transport for avatars from one planet to another should be like now, but i would like to see it removed for items and materials from auction. that would boost the entire universe ecomomy . so you can't afford to move every hour to another planet but you can live on a planet and make trade through auction system with other planets without transport fee . that would help you , your planet where you live (since you made profit wich you spend on present planet ) and also the other avatar from the other planet , since he can perform the desired proffesion and produce income for the planet partner where he dwells.
 
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