a 30000$ mistake

[wyz]

that they would have to allow everyone to have there tted items back)

Well I think we as a community should demand the return of all tt'd items since the policy change. The rule is plain wrong, and everyone should get their stuff back. Hopefully having this item tt'd will force MA's hand.

 

[Xander Catman]

Well I think we as a community should demand the return of all tt'd items since the policy change. The rule is plain wrong, and everyone should get their stuff back. Hopefully having this item tt'd will force MA's hand.

I'm gonna need more storage boxes - I've TT'd ALOT of crap lately.

 

[Germanicus]

I see a great potential in this situation.

If you decide to go to court with this a very possible outcome could be that the court may impose obligations on MA to improve the user interface in a way to prevent such situations alongside the decision that the UL OA has to be returned.
(...)
If MA is stubborn in this situation you should consult a lawyer and you should try and get him to research previous cases where companies sued software companies/providers for badly designed software and losing money (caused) by that software.

Probably the most realistic advice that could be given, it's not like consumer rights or law in general don't apply to that virtual universe, if this game involves rl money it surely takes all the "rl" baggage with it.
Ofc I believe MA cares about good publicity and will do something about this matter without external help.

P.S. It's quite likely our fault as a community too, that we failed to influence MA to introduce some safety procedures.

 

[steffel]

sorry for your accident. truly hope it works out well for you.

will this one cause headlines similar to cnd / egg sale

 

[Mega]

This is terrible Squall, I feel for your loss.

Anyone who has tt'd any item of value would know the sinking feeling.

Mindark knew exactly what they were doing when they implemented this "no return EVER rule" with VU 9.0 and so they have created a rod for their own back.

Whatever they do to resolve this they are in a no-win situation now.

The best compromise is, as others have stated, to create a 1000 Ped administration fee (to prevent small claims - similar to excess with insurance) and to allow an amnesty for participants to re-submit their own previous TT'd item cases.

That would be the sensible solution, and MA should have had the foresight to implement that in the first place.

I hope something like this is done for you and for all those who have had amp's etc disappear (as they never seem to reappear back in loot do they???)

 

[chielsen]

When these UL amps first started dropping... does anyone remember MA posting about people who were tt'ing them? did those who tt'ed these OA-103's etc get them back? nope.

Well if you did, and you sent a supportcase you would have gotten it back (i think). I even got an UL korss back (which they later told me i hadn't tted, so took it away again ).
I don't know if the actual looters and tt'ers filed a case, but if they did they would have gotten it back.
Maybe somebody out here had this?

Jeff, maybe you can trade the EFD you have earned with this thread with MA to get your amp back

 

[EarlVonKippler]

wow just wow.

the soap opera of entropia has just experienced a new plot twist!
the uber miner lost his uber amp!
will it end up in loot?
will there be a new amp on the loose?
will MA reverse their TTed item stance?
would MA have removed the TTed item stance had 'someone' not tried to rip them off for a unL k400? hmmmmm.

hopefully we will get a buyback option or a item lock feature soon. WAKE UP MA

(thought i'd yell, make it more clear )

in any case that is why i never, ever, ever, tt anything without a clear mind and plenty of rest

 

[Polynices]

suggestion: your amp is not worth 30k USD in the system that MA has built.

proof: that this happened.

are any items worth this much if this is possible?

gl getting it back, but big neg rep to MA either way.

 

[Dollymaus]

This is true, but i think everyone understands whats the difference between lets say gun worth 2000peds and amp worth 300000peds. I think MA has really no choice but to make exception at this case and return amp to Jeff.

and if my item is worth 10 K, 20 K, 50 K ? Where is the border ?

its really bs for ma to say you get your 300 k item back, but your 2 k ped gun isnt worth replacing because its "marketvalue" isnt high enough

dont get me wrong, jeff should get back the amp but the 2 k weapon dude should get it too

 

[merrin]

Sorry to hear about Jeff's loss I really feel that he should get his OA back. Shit happens and Jeff deserves the second chance, he's living legend of Entropia's mining, very helpful for other players (just read some of his posts in Mining section). Maybe it's time for MA to change their stupid rules concerning accidentally tt'ed items...
My solution: I think that MA should give OA back to Jeff the day before implementing VU 10, there'll be so much whining, complaining and wailing here that nobody notice that Jeff got his stuff back
Anyway, good luck with it, Jeff, I'll keep my fingers crossed for u.

 

[The Albatross]

Sorry to hear about this Jeff, the problem is MA may look at it as if they give you your amp back, all other people who have been denied their items back after accidental TTing will create an uproar They will unfortunately probably just look at it as another item, regardless of the value

Hope it works out Then maybe I can get back the Dante I TTed a while back

 

[Tussi]

Of course its a stupid thing to do, but I totally see no reason why the item should not be returned. Nobody is being harmed by it. Rules should not be followed because they are rules, but because of an underlying reason. If the the issue at hand totally outweighs this underlying reason, the rule should not be enforced.

There are quite a few people harmed by returning the item:
All others who didn't get their stuff back.

why dont you support this guy in getting his item back, rather than making it ok for him not too!!!! what is wrong with you fucking people

I would support that something is changed in the system.
I don't support favorism.

so Ben you are admitting here that mistakes can happen but I`m just curious are you saying that its better that MA doesnt change their policy and in the process give the amp back because you or others didnt get their stuff back?

He said that all should be treated equal.

If so i just have to say you know what that sounds like to me......

"No this school doesnt need a crossing.My children got hit by cars when they went to this school so bad luck"

Your example applied to the situation is more like demanding a crossing for some of the children, since it's ok to let the the others be rolled over by cars.

Problem with MA is they are reactive, they need to be proactive.

Nice idea. Will require management change though (else they would have instantiated that policy a long time ago).

They have put themselves in between a rock and a hard place. Jeff, i have no idea about legal things but im sure it could be argued not returning the item is against basic human rights or something of that nature.

Please read up on human rights.

I am disappointed at the people who think that the item shouldnt be returned and hope they never find themselves in your shoes.

I'm disappointed that some people here demand to make an exception for a select few.

THIS ITEM IS UNIQUE...IT HAS ITS OWN CODE....IT IS EASY TO TRACK...

Every item is unique (because it has a primary key in the DB to track it).

MA do listen and see reason

to change the current implementation (like implementing locks)

it is a shame the player base isnt a little more supportive of Squall in his time of need.

What do you expect?
Should the people say: Hey MA, it's ok if other peoples stuff in gone after pressing accept, but fur heavens sake give the guy back his uber item... ?

The TT policy IMO is unfair and should be amended.

I agree with this (see my first post in this thread).

I think MA should change the policy to something to the effect of where if an Item is tt'ed, a request to have that item replaced would cost a significant amount of money. Say 2000 peds. This would be to cover the time it would take to review the case and reintroduce the item. It would also prevent abuse because items that are worth less won't be asked to be replaced due to the cost of a new one would be less than the cost to have it un-tt'ed.

Great, so everyone with an item with market value of less than 2k PED should not be able to benefit from this?

Why not make it so that only avatars in the top 10 socs are able to reclaim their tt'ed items?

In addition, you should contact any and all media outlets that will pick up the story. It is a very interesting case that you have and if you do end up on the losing end, then it will make MA and the platform look very bad.

What you suggest would be qualify as coercion in germany.

Because besides many-many reasonable and good people in here, there is also a bunch of finger-pointing a-holes here as well, who seeing you get your item back will run screaming to MA support that they want their items back like you did.

(emphasis added by me)
People who demand equal treatment are assholes?
For this: -REP

Tussi

 

[Robin]

If it was me i'd be really mad at myself...and depressed...Did you accept the EULA? If you did then MA is legally not responsible for the amp...It says right there they arent.And yes all other tted items that other ppl accidentaly tted should also be returned.Good luck with it your gonna need it.

 

[Snabble]

I got 100 ped that says they wont give back the amp... anyone wanna cover that bet?

 

[Lavawalker]

Sorry for your loss Jeff,

It will be interesting to see how MA handles such cases with items of high resale value.

I would assume that you will get it back with a stern warning

A TT item lock would be a nice idea MA, maybe when a TT lock is in place, and the item is *not* equipped it will turn light green. When it is locked and equipped, it turns dark green.

Much like the dark blue shade of currently equipped items.

Take Care,
Sparkz

 

[NotVF]

If it was me i'd be really mad at myself...and depressed...Did you accept the EULA? If you did then MA is legally not responsible for the amp...It says right there they arent.And yes all other tted items that other ppl accidentaly tted should also be returned.Good luck with it your gonna need it.

The one mistake you make is that you assume the EULA is a legally accepted document. It is not. Just because MA claims you have to accept it does not make it legally acceptable.

I'm actually wondering what the legal body's position on this would be. In this particular case, there's Jeff, whose livelyhood depends on this particular item, and who valued it at 30k USD.

On the other hand, there's MA, who can claim investing in their universe is like playing the stock market; your investment is not worth a damn thing until the moment you sell it. Only then it will show what you made or lost.

Still a shit situation, and I'd hate to be in MA's shoes atm, though not as much as I'd hate to be in Jeff's shoes...

 

[Vedder]

Whoa Squall, that's a bit oops there.

But I'm sure MA will give it back.

 

[Lavawalker]

Still a shit situation, and I'd hate to be in MA's shoes atm, though not as much as I'd hate to be in Jeff's shoes...

Agreed,

It is a very delicate situation,

Yet really a no brainer due to the income revenue stream Jeff provides for MA from daily TT burn being so extensive.

The issue at this point for them is how to mitigate the political senarios that could spin off in the item's return from any potential equal rights backlash that may come from community into the item's return.

Even though the EULA is in place and there is a safety mechanism built into the TT in relation to accepting transactions, such cases still need to be handled on a case by case basis, and people will just need to come to terms with this not being a simple case of, 'This is the rule and that is it'.

The rules set are only a guideline, special cases where it adversely effects any revenue generation streams would be given special treatment.

This is just how the real world works with regards to such things.

Sparkz

 

[Xander Catman]

Whoa Squall, that's a bit oops there.

But I'm sure MA will give it back.

Ok I have to ask.. what makes you so sure about that?

 

[Wisdom]

I'm actually wondering what the legal body's position on this would be. In this particular case, there's Jeff, whose livelyhood depends on this particular item, and who valued it at 30k USD. I'm actually wondering what the legal body's position on this would be. In this particular case, there's Jeff, whose livelyhood depends on this particular item, and who valued it at 30k USD. I'm actually wondering what the legal body's position on this would be. In this particular case, there's Jeff, whose livelyhood depends on this particular item, and who valued it at 30k USD.

The legal body's position is that Jeff gets a life and a real life job.

 

[BlackHawk]

Ok I have to ask.. what makes you so sure about that?

Because if it dose not most of us having items with huge market value and flood the chat with globals will use EU for dancing events only. Or for chat only. I know I am tempted to do so.

This is a really important problem. It has to be solved. The item simply has to be returned. No questions asked. This crap with equal treatment is nothing but B/S. Equal with 0? No way. If ALL would have the option to get the item back FOR A FEE it would be fair for all. Just make that fee clear for all and public. So we all know how much a mistake will cost. But losing an item is wrong.

 

[myne ah byrd]

an excellent review of the problem looking from both sides. some people seem to think this is so black and white. a proper solution will hopfully come out of this.

Someone suggested, and i agree, that publishing the issue has not done any favours, it ties MAs hands in some respects and whatever the out come some will feel justifiably aggrieved. As much as Myne ah Byrd says some have successfully got items back since VU9, its apparent others have not and that i'm afraid will be the precedent applied.

if i can find the thread i will pass it on, funny thing is, noone can remember that one, because it didnt involve a 30k item ........ fyi , it was after vu9

i know people that got items back before vu9 , and others didnt.....this is nothing new...why is it such an issue now....i keep hearing how Ma has to be fair, when in fact the people saying it arent...

 

[ALEXANDER]

I sent the support case and this is what I got...

"Hi,

Thank you for reporting. Unfortunately the Entropia Support cannot replace any items sold to the Trade Terminal. The sales transaction is not approved until you have confirmed the sale. Since all trades are final, it is the responsibility of each participant to carefully check all trade transactions before accepting them.

Kind regards,
Entropia Support"

 

[Xander Catman]

Because if it dose not most of us having items with huge market value and flood the chat with globals will use EU for dancing events only. Or for chat only. I know I am tempted to do so.

This is a really important problem. It has to be solved. The item simply has to be returned. No questions asked. This crap with equal treatment is nothing but B/S. Equal with 0? No way. If ALL would have the option to get the item back FOR A FEE it would be fair for all. Just make that fee clear for all and public. So we all know how much a mistake will cost. But losing an item is wrong.

I totaly agree with that idea - but thats not the way things currently work now is it - so right now the fare thing to do is not return it (according to CURRENT policies) - and if they change the rules and make them retro-active, then they need to do so for everyone that has accidently TT'd something. Plain and simple.

 

[wizzszz]

MA, get that guy his oreamp back - just like every other stuff accidentially TT'ed!

Just because you are incapable of making the ideas like "TT lock attachments" or a "big fat red extra alerts for items with a markup above +10" or something work, we've got to deal with such losses?

Seriously, get some of the PEDs you make us all lose and rent a coder worth his salary.

 

[fnalig]

Even if i feel really bad 4 u, i and u all will have 2 put up a couple of questions 4 ourselfs.
IF i buy a new $ 30000 Breitling watch 2 day and drop it in the sea on my way home on a ferry Would Breitling just give me a new one cause of MY mistake ? Or if my lottery ticket would show a $ 30000 win and I had thrown it in the trash. Would i still get my winnings ? Its pretty harsh BUT i think in RL at least we ALL have a responsibility 4 OUR own mistakes we cant expect any one else to take the costs 4 mistakes we do. I feel really bad 4 u. But i dont think u can blame MA 4 this. It was u who was careless. And as u said u have been around 4 years so by this time u should have learned 2 doublecheck b4 u click sell. Hard Yes but i KNOW that i wouldnt get my winnings if i threw my ticket in the trash THAT i learned the hard way. So whats different with your stupidity ? We both did kind of the same mistake.

 

[Stackman]

Hey weren't you the guy that was ripping people off by auctioning broken amps when the auctions allowed it?

If so....I have no sympathy for your....what goes around comes around.

And if you weren't that guy....
BUMMER!

 

[papacone]

MA will give it back and their policy will be changed.

It is a customer service issue and I can't understand why it was so much trouble to give stuff back in the first place.

They may want to focus more on the customers b4 they have customers no more.

Jeff, don't worry. They will return it to you (I don't have a crystal ball). If this is the path they choose......

 

[Ancient]

Because if it dose not most of us having items with huge market value and flood the chat with globals will use EU for dancing events only. Or for chat only. I know I am tempted to do so.

This is a really important problem. It has to be solved. The item simply has to be returned. No questions asked. This crap with equal treatment is nothing but B/S. Equal with 0? No way. If ALL would have the option to get the item back FOR A FEE it would be fair for all. Just make that fee clear for all and public. So we all know how much a mistake will cost. But losing an item is wrong.

yes Blackhawk it would be good if you could pay a fine and get your item back, but unfortunately that isnt the rule at this point in time. Yes they could return his item and then implement the rule, but that would mean that they would have to spend valuable man hours to return everyone elses items.Why should MA lose money because of someone elses mistake? The time spent on making this change could delay the implementation of the cry engine by a few months. If this happened everytime someone made a mistake then where would this universe be? That gun that you bought with all your savings would be worth TT value by now. I am suprised you are not taking a different line on this and I cant beleive people think this item will actually be returned.

I will tell you a little story now about a school girl in england who went to school wearing jewelry even though the schools policy clearly stated that no jewelry was allowed. She claimed that she should be able to wear it as it was related to her religion. She ended up taking the school to court and eventually won the right to wear it in school. For me this is total BS. The rule should apply across the board no matter what, otherwise rules are just meaningless.

yes the guy has lost alot of money, but so do alot of people in vegas who gamble with their money!

 

[InDaHouse]

Very sorry for your loss Joe but the harsh reality is its gone.

SOC mate TT'd his Minor TP chip this week TT +200 ped reply from MA is that they dont replace items TT'd after VU 9.0.

SOC mate TT'd her Omegaton A104 TT +550 (at the time), she was sure she never sold it but according to MA this is what happened and she had to buy a new one.

Insegnificant in value to this I know but if this is replaced then MA are opening up the flood doors to the masses.

1 positive thing for the community is that out there somewhere is a OA-105 wating to be looted.