About Autoclicking: once and for all

@Kerham

true, one cannot compare AC with any kind of BOT. Auto clicker cannot 'know' if you may not acquire any more sweat from some creature or not and sweat another one, thus it needs your presence. you can leave it to sweat or heal or craft for some short period of time so you can take a break/smoke cigarette/go to toilet/eat a sandwich but you have to supervise it. BOT on the other hand works on much different level, and needs tempering with EU software so it can be programmed. Therefore one cannot compare those two, because they are not the same thing.
 
The bolded declaration is a very dangerous one.

I don't see how you compare a program which says: "at coordinates x,y simulate mouse click, once each Z seconds" with a program which decides wether or not to shoot a mob based on OCR its name & maturity and search in a data base, program which decide wether to fap or not based on OCR-ing the avatar healthbar (which was modified to not show numbers anymore nor accurate progression as being hit, which is good from this pov), program which measure distance on radar and so on, program which ultimately can be tweaked beyond human ability of reacting. On crafting you can only click as fast as the machine let you, one click ~5 seconds, nothing more.

Also I don't see how you compare AC with really dangerous softwares like speedhacks? Or using AC with decompiling EU data packs to check, for instance, the icons for unlockable skills lol.

Is my impression that people who have such a hard negative stance about autoclickers have two common features:

a) no idea whatsoever on what exactly is an autoclicker.

b) same understanding of crafting itself.

Also why is everybody asuming that AC must be done 24/7? Why I can't use AC for crafting only 5 hours a day?

The only player with some authority in this direction which I saw taking this stance is Mandy, ok, her opinion. But the rest.. all the scientist, Antronicus or wossisname, now domcristopher.. really, do you guys exist?

On hunting, you also can only shoot as fast as the gun lets you ;)

a.) An autoclicker is a software or hardware (in that case mostly implemented direct in the mouse) which automatically "clicks" the mouse. On ebay.com you also get mouses with integrated autoclickers for $12,95. About software I don't have that much of an idea since I'm not a coder, but I got told that it isn't too hard to make.

b.) I have approximately 47.000 skills in crafting, manually done. 47.000 maybe isn't that much, but crafting also isn't my main profession anyway, but I think I got a slight guess what it is about ;)
 
Wow never thought of that one :laugh: But that just reads the global massages in chat.

Big Brother is watching you :D ;) hehe - Or is that uncle sam and all his brothers :laugh:
 
On hunting, you also can only shoot as fast as the gun lets you ;)

Yes, but you are limited, as is normal, when checking health bar+changing gun/fap (remember you didn't had reload of change when the botters were banned, it was quasiinstant)+deciding what mob to pick+calculating if to fap or not now etc. The program goes beyond that. Check for instance mann mph and tell me how much time are you able to click it at max speed. Then try to swap for fap and click fap each 5 shots of mann mph without wasting time/shots. There comes the bot in play. Check out if you can stop shooting always after X shots constantly, shots done at max speed, etc.

b.) I have approximately 47.000 skills in crafting, manually done. 47.000 maybe isn't that much, but crafting also isn't my main profession anyway, but I think I got a slight guess what it is about ;)

a) That doesn't make you less clueless, apparently. Maybe you think that autoclicker gives magically peds or skillgains, you gotta have some basis, who knows.

b) maybe you want to count again your crafting skills, eventually without LWT and BLPWT. Anatomy is not a crafting skill, either.

c) these conditions (a and b) being non/valid, maybe you bother yourself to explain me the advantage of a crafter using AC 5 hours a day vs a crafter clicking manually 5 hours a day, thanks.
 
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I think the main issue people have with autoclickers is the potential for abuse. If the potentail exists, there will be people abusing it.

It's all about skilling advantages.

If you left an AC running for 7 days straight on a crafting machine - 172hours - and just popped in to refill the resources, clear loot window etc. How much could you gain in skills over someone who just played normally or even used AC for a few hours a day for 7 days?

Loot is the same, but skilling is not.

Scanning is abused for this purpose, everyone has seen it.

AC will probably be directly named in future as forbidden once they have automated crafting a bit, and make autofire for weapons and autoextract for mining.

Scanning ACer's will get the ban hammer quicker then.

The whole issue is about abuse of AC not normal use.
 
The bolded declaration is a very dangerous one.

I don't see how you compare a program which says: "at coordinates x,y simulate mouse click, once each Z seconds" with a program which decides wether or not to shoot a mob based on OCR its name & maturity and search in a data base, program which decide wether to fap or not based on OCR-ing the avatar healthbar (which was modified to not show numbers anymore nor accurate progression as being hit, which is good from this pov), program which measure distance on radar and so on, program which ultimately can be tweaked beyond human ability of reacting. On crafting you can only click as fast as the machine let you, one click ~5 seconds, nothing more.

Also I don't see how you compare AC with really dangerous softwares like speedhacks? Or using AC with decompiling EU data packs to check, for instance, the icons for unlockable skills lol.

Is my impression that people who have such a hard negative stance about autoclickers have two common features:

a) no idea whatsoever on what exactly is an autoclicker.

b) same understanding of crafting itself.

Also why is everybody asuming that AC must be done 24/7? Why I can't use AC for crafting only 5 hours a day?

The only player with some authority in this direction which I saw taking this stance is Mandy, ok, her opinion. But the rest.. all the scientist, Antronicus or wossisname, now domcristopher.. really, do you guys exist?

Errr.. so you're whole first paragraph is saying that because a computer can react more quickly than a human, that some how gives them an advantage to hunting or mining? I don't see it. And I certainly don't see what you're going on about seeing mob name/maturity, needing to fap or not, and distance... Most players can tell what a mob is, they notice when their health is getting lower, and most of the time there is an autoaim for distance. The bot is doing the same thing a human is, admittedly without quite the same precision. The same thing could be applied to the crafting system. The autoclicker could be set to the exact millisecond to perform each click, allowing for slightly more accuracy in pressing the button at the right time (allowing for faster clicking). How that would give an advantage either, I still don't know.
As to "speedhacks", :laugh:. Just :laugh:. First of all, there isn't anything like that in EU. Secondly, that has nothing to do with what I was comparing.

Most of the rest of your "argument" obviously doesn't apply to me, because I had no negative stance about ACing.
Your last sentence, though - do I exist? WTF is your problem?
 
As to "speedhacks", :laugh:. Just :laugh:. First of all, there isn't anything like that in EU. Secondly, that has nothing to do with what I was comparing.

When somebody is clueless, is clueless without hope.

Want to search EF alone or you need help?

And to answer your -rep question, wazzup kid, want to be always right? Want a hug?

Your Xfire screenie really shows you played 500 hours of Entropia? I feel impressed.
 
[..]

The whole issue is about abuse of AC not normal use.

very well put

im not even gonna start about this 5 year long discussion.

its amasing how people quote the EULA and say its obvious ACs are allowed.

if your uncertain open up a support case.

the holy EULA saves EU theoretical from anything..

so all the good stuff ..tracker, peASS, NRF
.. and ofc the bad stuff is generally illegal in EU..

why well think about it from a laywers point of view ^_°
 
Loot is the same, but skilling is not.

Good points, but I can't agree this quoted part. It can't be that AC'er 24/7 spending say 4k peds for say 20 hours of clicking has same loot as 5 hours a day player spending 1k peds. The first one will most likely loose his ass off long before the second one.

But again, good points on *normal* usage.
 
Good points, but I can't agree this quoted part. It can't be that AC'er 24/7 spending say 4k peds for say 20 hours of clicking has same loot as 5 hours a day player spending 1k peds. The first one will most likely loose his ass off long before the second one.

But again, good points on *normal* usage.

Put in relation the gainback should turn out about the same. Of course 10% malus of 4k are more than 10% malus of 1k, however, first one also should get about 4 times more skills ;)
 
FORBIDDEN:
1- analyze, hack, interrupt, redirect data communication between your pc and the entropia servers
= tempering with MA software
2- use software to intercept data communication between your pc and entropia servers
= ment to gather info to temper with MA software
3- use third party software, devices or techniques to collect data between yoru pc and entropia servers
= ment to gather info to temper with MA software
4- affect entropia interface, environment components, balancing or participant's experience
= tamper with software to get better faps, more money, or other advantages vs other players

WHAT MA SAYS:
don't mess with the EU software, don't analyze the datastreams

Ma states that tempering with EU software, or intercepting/influencing datastreams = CHEATING

Naomi

I'll state it in a simple way:

Autoclickers are programs that just keep clicking a 'N' number of times... It's simple and does not analyze the data coming from the game servers. So according to MA they can be used.

Bots are programs that intercept and analyze the data and reacts according to the received data. In this case that is what MA doesn't want us to use.

If using an autoclick program is right or wrong, that is something left for the players, cause MA doesn't give a f*ck. :)
 
Again another statement from me, if crafting is too boring for any person to interact with then why doing so? Just to get up the skills and mess around with that?

Honestly, if I don't want to craft, I don't craft, if I don't want to mine, I don't mine, if I don't want to hunt, I don't hunt,...

It's up to everyone what he/she's doing inside EU, no one is forced to do something he/she doesn't want to do. When someone is bored of crafting he/she is allowed to do anything else or just log off. But just placing a bot there that doesn't interact with the rest of the players is lame. Mostly, when I craft myself, I give conversation in both, chat and/or teamspeak and beside watch a bit tv, but as long as I'm logged in and not just 5 minutes afk going to the toilet or grabbing a cup of tea, I'm part of the community and when someone speaks to me I also give an answer (except I don't see it because I'm just very busy of something else ingame, but that's pretty rare), and when I'm afk I also put the afk emote in. That easy it is.


............

Not a big crafter are you?

Crafting is tons of fun... when you get to better stuff.... I think I left my AC on over night maybe 6-8hrs once doing filters... just to skill a wee bit....

Came back still had materials I think it went through let me check...

Oil Start TT = 738.86
Lyst Start TT = 922.98

Ending after an over night at least 8 hrs approx...

Oil End TT = 622.52
Lyst End TT = 726.12

Total usage in 8hrs.... 116.34 PED of Oil and 196.86 TT of Lyst

Total usage = 313.20ped.... in 8 hrs of clicking... if not more....

That is insane amount of clicking to only use 313.2 ped... The unfourunately thing is... Filters is a known basic starting point for skilling and therefore a lot of people do it...

Only 313.2 ped though in 8 hrs.... Would you actually prefer someone do that in one sitting? Cause I wanted to skill somewhat fast because Id like to get out of basic lame stackables of componenets and get into guns... but Id like to have a bit of skills in other areas before I do this.


Look... I dont go on the forum telling people how to hunt or when or where or why or how long... nore do i tell miners the same thing....

Why do people insist that people that decide to use AC are cheating and AC's should be banned....

Try starting out with an eco skilling on filters... see how long you can manage to skill up before you get so bored you give up.

As for the arguement over playing and not playing.... Answer this someone...

How much less of a bot is someone who is watching TV/Reading/Jerking Off while they are crafting just clicking every 5-8 seconds with very minimal to no responce to others as it slows the run down....

Because IMO the above paragraph has the same thing... someone who isn't paying attention to the game because its so boring during the early times.


People craft to skill up so they can craft fun things... I personally craft now in 200 clicks for guns and I sit there and do it or if I need to do something right away I toss an AC on to do a few clicks while I take the dishes out or something.
 
The question about hunting bots ..there's probably a few reasons they aren't allowed, but one obvious one strikes me that crafting can't run into.

You can't KS crafting, a hunting bot must find and target a mob, that could be a mob you are in the process of killing, so this bot controlled ava suns up and kills it...are you happy?

I can see bots being a pain in the arse in events too, like merry mayhem for example?

I doubt I'd get any medals for letting a bot loose at swamp camp either.

+rep for the original post BTW Spot on IMO :)

t
 
Further, MA (support) already took several clear statements in the past that autoclickers (hardware or software) are forbidden.

Gotta respond to this one, with this:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...e/601-auto-click-not-auto-click.html#post7703

(for those too lazy to click & read, excerpt from post)

Originally Posted by NoBion(From EP)
Case 楀 History
2004-12-27 nobion christian andersen:
Hi Mindark!

I Wanted to hear, If Voice Programs running in the background Is illegal to use while Playing PE?.

Thx

NoBion
2005-01-04 MindArk Support:
Any third part programs running in background is illegal.

By the same logic that you demonstrate, combined with the logic that MA support has, on numerous occasions, demonstrated - YOU MAY NOT HAVE ANY THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING IN THE BACKGROUND WHILE PLAYING EU!!!
This includes, but is not limited to,
AV programs (reads/intercepts all data packets into computer - if it's a good one, that is!))
Firewalls (same as above)
Any chat/IM programs (who doesn't have those running today?)
Any voice programs (teamspeak/ventrilo/Roger Wilco/Xfire/Skype/etc)
Internet browsers (they aren't supported by MA!)
A profile program for your keyboard/mouse, specifically those that allow macros.

I could go on and on with the list of "3rd party programs" that fall under those concepts. I spent the last 30 minutes looking for it, but shortly after Xfire was announced to the EU community, and Xfire released the update that let XIG work ingame for EU, someone sent in a support ticket asking MA the same thing as above, and they responded with the same cut & pasted reply. The submitter laughed, resubmitted it with something like "You guys are advertising on Xfire, what - I'm not supposed to use Xfire for even the video capture contest, wth?".
Same cut & paste response to THAT, stating that all 3rd party software is "illegal".

So please, unless you have a voice recording with an MA official stating that ACs are banned and illegal in EU, I'm not going to believe it...
Oh ya, and unless they come on here and announce it... (which I know for a fact they won't, because of the economic implications that it holds for THEM, let alone US.)

Now... I'd believe it if Marco came on here and posted something for the PRESENT, other than "Coming up with one for crafting here real Soon(TM)...". :rolleyes:

Also for those who don't know, bots are VERY different from AC's. Quite literally the command code for an AC could/should be like, 5-10 lines of code, counting the interface (If I remember right).
A bot, on the other hand - has hundreds, if not thousands of program code involved. Variables, computations of previous variables with potential unknowns, etc etc.
The reason people got banned (Hunterz comes to mind) for BOTTING, is because (note - 3rd party information, can't find source) he was 10/10 stats on weapons, and could hunt a certain series of mobs VERY VERY efficiently. I'm talking mobs that had average loot drops of 3-5 ped costing him 1-2 ped to kill, so he was guaranteed profit. And he supposedly left this autobot running until his gun broke (that's a shitload of ammo for an imk2, btw).
I am aware personally that Hunterz did this, because when Nostrop was doing his Exa events, I WAS signed up to be a ticket seller, and he had a system he was going to do. Sell X number of tickets, get "points" you can turn in for a prize. I wanted gremlin gloves, and he said "Sell 40 tickets and you'll get the gloves - Gotta turn Hunterz loose on them for a few days, but he might be able to loot a M pair for ya" (at this time I didn't know Hunterz botted so much, so I was like "whoa! This guy'll go out of his way to loot these for me? SWEET!).

THAT was a sore spot with MA, guaranteed profit that fleeced the lootpool. So ya, hunting bot = bad.
AC, on the other hand, is a simplified automation of a meaningless task in an RCE game. Seriously, if anyone thinks of EU as a job, or even any potential of real money, tell me what you'd do RL if a job required you to hit a button over & over again, every 5 seconds, all day long.
YOU'D FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT EASIER. You CANNOT tell me you wouldn't do this... and IF (since I know someone would say it) it was against company policy to make it 'automated', after a few weeks of that shit, you'd be petitioning your ass off to get it so that the button would auto-fire every 5 seconds as long as your ass was in the chair (or be smart and develop something like).

*sigh* Truthfully, the only people who can settle this have been silent for years on this.
Mindark.
Marco.
Not, however, support (as outlined in the beginning of this post). We get an official announcement from either of the first two sources, we can ALL shut up about it.
Seriously though, if AC was allowed (within reason of course, for crafting/mining) and suddenly the forum exploded into "OMG BAN AC U ALL SUX IM GOING TO EVE" or something like that, Ima punch you all in the babymaker >_< :nutkick:
 
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Wow never thought of that one :laugh: But that just reads the global massages in chat.

Little OFF topic:
I have np with entropiatracker (but sorry i don t love to send you any of my screen shot) but according that they are playing with the chat.log file (in the software) and according with this:

1- analyze, hack, interrupt, redirect data communication between your pc and the entropia servers
= tempering with MA software
2- use software to intercept data communication between your pc and entropia servers
= ment to gather info to temper with MA software
3- use third party software, devices or techniques to collect data between yoru pc and entropia servers
= ment to gather info to temper with MA software
4- affect entropia interface, environment components, balancing or participant's experience
= tamper with software to get better faps, more money, or other advantages vs other players

i can see few illegal stuff.


But you know at the end illegal is what is not tolerated only. Let me say a practical example. In almost every country mariuana is illegal, but in few the government decide to don t apply the law. Same situation here, we have by EULA many things that are illegal but MA decided to...close one eye (like we say in Italy). At the end when we accept the EULA we accept this.

BACK IN TOPIC

About the AC, like i already said, the problem is not if we can or we cannot use the AC. The problem is that ALREADY many people (especially our old PE friends) used this and a different skills gain feature to gain tons of skills that made them special. With or without AC you, me , us will never compete at high level with them (in crafting profession for example) cause they are already a huge step in front of us and there is nothing performed by MA to slow down them in order to allow the post PE players to compete (compete , i say compete).
The problem is not the AC, this is just the surface.
 
So it's ok for two players to find a quiet spot, with scanners and set it to autoclick scan each other?
:scratch2:
 
hmmm, would I support an auto click bot that mines for me while I sleep. I doubt it, I like to play the game. Guess if they have the money to click all night with an ac they could just buy the damn skills.

On the other hand, crafting is incredibly boring. Im guessing its very hard to reach the next unlock after bpc.

...and no, this wont be the last AC thread :p
 
So it's ok for two players to find a quiet spot, with scanners and set it to autoclick scan each other?
:scratch2:

That would be abuse of the system. Also note again, an AC for crafting/mining ONLY. I'd support an auto-fire system for hunting IF they could find a way not to have me burn 5 ped of ammo on a lagout!
Also, it's not as if what you mention hasn't been done by literally hundreds of users who wished to pad their skill points... personally, I liked grabbing a scanner and just scanning everyone at Twin... was cool to see the broad spectrum of skills/armor/gear they used to show!... now it only shows EQUIPPED armor & clothes... can't see their weapons anymore :(.

hmmm, would I support an auto click bot that mines for me while I sleep. I doubt it, I like to play the game. Guess if they have the money to click all night with an ac they could just buy the damn skills.

On the other hand, crafting is incredibly boring. Im guessing its very hard to reach the next unlock after bpc.

...and no, this wont be the last AC thread :p

How do skills matter when you already max an OM-105 or any of the L varieties, and you're still looking at 6+ hours of drilling? FPC has taken a step in the right direction with the release of at least one new driller series (the 300 series). Problem is, even with those, large finds take a lloonngg time to drill up. A friend of mine hit an 1800 ped melchi up at CND. He had a 200 series (forgot which one, the fastest one) enmat driller. Yes, he autoclicked it. Do you know how long it took 'em to drill it up, at max speed, autoclicking?
7 hours and 20 minutes.
He had time to go shopping with his wife, go to the movies, go out for dinner, and STILL had enough time left over to sit down infront of the computer (checking to make sure nothing had killed him/crashed) and read a few chapters in a good book.
That's quality time that he spent with his family, doing something productive with the timesink MA has allowed to remain, and allowed to INCREASE over the years (higher and higher hofs on a regular basis), although the introduction of the mining tower for 4k+ ped hofs is a blessing and a half.
Are you insinuating that, due to an oversight on MA's part, he SHOULDN'T have gone shopping with his wife, SHOULDN'T have gone to the movies, SHOULDN'T have gone out to dinner with his family? That he should have instead stayed home, and done those clicks manually? Even if he did it over the next 3-4 days, PLEASE TELL ME WHAT HE WOULD HAVE GAINED FROM DOING IT MANUALLY. NO ONE has yet to answer that question. Skills? He'll have the same amount of skills at the end of it as if he used an AC, just 3-4 days sooner. He'll have more time to be able to actually interact with his family, he wouldn't have to say to the soc when they approached him for a soc hunt, "Sorry guys, because I'm taking the moral highground, I have to spend all my spare time manually clicking the 18k clicks that it's gonna take to drill this out, and then take a few days to ice my finger and recover before I can go hunt. Sorry!".

Then to those whom say "hunting is clicking too!" - there is a VERY definite difference. I CHALLENGE you to sit there and click 10,000 times... without moving the mouse. Then I challenge you (after you've recovered with ice and a wrist brace) to do 10k clicks, but be allowed to move the mouse around, all over, in-fact. Hunting involves MOVING, while crafting/mining involves NOT MOVING. I circle the mob all the time, so my mouse is in constant motion. Reaiming, firing while I quickly hit space and pull off another healthbar, all involves continual motion of the wrist and fingers beyond the simple rise & fall of a single muscle set for the same set time period.

Then there's also the lack of social interaction with crafting/mining. You craft, you can't chat without not clicking... which lengthens your crafting session longer, because you can't click craft every 5 seconds when typing. Drilling, same thing. Clicking drill causes focus to go away from chat box, and some drills are a lot faster than 5 seconds (think fastest is ~3 seconds?), and of course you want to drill that stuff up fast as possible so you can move onto the next field/claim. So again, social interaction traded for maximum speed... even without AC.
Hunting, especially in a team, REQUIRES social interaction. Hence it (can be) the slowest ped drain in comparison to any other profession, due to talking instead of shooting, etc.

Really, there are a LOT of factors involved with this argument that many aren't looking at, well above and beyond the supposed interpretation of the EULA/ToS/CoS (the interpretation of which, to this date, is STILL NOT CONFIRMED OFFICIALLY).
 
wow this topic is bloody red hot isn't it ..... well my 2pec anyway

I am a Miner first and foremost and yes i use a MACRO that i recorded for those lovely times when pulling a lyst hof and you know that you won't be moving a muscle until it's done.

Many people may know or not know, but 90% of gaming mice come included with the necessary software to create your own macro like i have done (it's a really complex 1 click every 6 or so seconds to the left mouse button). So am i cheating for not staring like a zombie at a screen not moving a musle except for 1 finger for 30 mins or so with say a 187ped claim like i have already done (and extracted without a macro and decided that night to upgrade the mouse lmao).

Not sure about you guys but I still don't think that doing nothing more than 1 click every 6 or seconds isn't cheating. If you really wanna spice your hunting up try accidently hitting the macro button while hunting lmao, "why do i keep shooting every 6 seconds ......... DOH!!!!"
 
4- affect entropia interface, environment components, balancing or participant's experience
= temper with software to get better faps, more money, or other advantages vs other players
in the following post i say "you" without speaking about anyone special, so it isn't a reply to Naomi in particular, i just quoted it because i liked that part and it goes along with my post
so understand the "you" as general, not as particular please

although I understand the "I don't want to click 50 000 times to produce filters/BSM/whatever", isnt an autoclicker exactly there for one reason

to click for you instead of you

now when the AC clicks for you instead of you, and your arguement is that you dont want RSI or something, thats alright
but then one question comes to mind
do you sit behind the PC for the 5 hours (or whatever time it needs) til your 50 000 clicks are done, maybe reading newspaper or something?

because if you don't, you gain an advantange vs other players, who spent their time behind the pc

that goes along with hunters, miners (where bots are harder to set up very likely, with aiming, fapping, running around to drop bombs every 100m, god knows what) and crafters alike

just that it is easier to program or crafting more boring isn't really an excuse, is it?
simple question, if it is that boring, why do you do it? or did it?
because it used to have an AC option so you can go to the cinema or something while the program does your job and the other idiots spend their time on clicking/hunting/mining themselves?

so i definitely think that it IS to gain an advantage of people who click on themselves, thats the whole point of it, because i can hardly imagine anyone watching the AC craft for you


i don't blame anyone for having used an AC btw, nor would I, it was a logical thing, as many did
so many actually tried to get an advantage of others (and more free time kinda) by using it that just the poor stupid idiots who didn't use one were the people left on the track


i understand however the "crafting is boring" and "50 000 clicks is nuts", totally correct
there should indeed be an option to have it click for yourself, or a change in crafting, but it should have some way to have ppl sit behind the PC to spend their time as others or to leave it
that is fairness, not more

maybe some kind of buttons popping up at the screen like "press Q" or so, so you gotta react to something and your attention is in the screen and let you do something
or to actually build the stuff, put the reasources in, click manufacture and you would get some kind of easy puzzle of the final item to place together


either way, also i tend to ignore bots, i generally don't like it
"yo, i got 4000 evade" "whoa, must have taken a while" "ya, rather long, always ran into the atrox for months" "must have been boring" "naaah, used a program which ran for me and watched tv, all the idiots who do it themselves are nuts"
crafting discussion wouldn't be much different and any botter discussion could be similar


this has, very likely, a price effect on the skills, as they are likely lower than possible as you can "AC them up"

if it has a product price effect using ACs is actually fairly easy to see, look at the sweat market once the server border bug appeared and lots of ppl sweated on AC
price went down drastically
and now several prices of crafted stuff are up afaik, like residue

so i am fairly use an affect is there


either way, although it may sound harsh
i don't think the "i don't want to click 50k times", "crafting is boring", "it keeps prices down"
->"give us the AC back"
is valid, if you dont want to click 50k times because its boring, noone is forcing you to craft, not even using an AC, just do something else (you had likely done something else with AC anyway, i can't imagine someone watching that, even more boring)
"keeping prices down" is actually a 2 edged sword, because it makes it harder for people (especially those who don't use or don't want to use an AC) to get into crafting
ofc the people who have the skills now after using bots/ACs are laughing
about them

it isn't necessarily a discussion about cheating, more about fairness generally
is it really right to be able to skill without being behind the PC?
thus driving prices down, thus getting skills on advantage of others who do it without the AC/bot method
 
(2)not use any other software than the Entropia Universe Client to interpret or affect data sent to or from the Entropia Universe server and client systems.


Correct my if I'm wrong Naomi, but isn't an AC a piece of software that is affecting data being sent to and from the server?
 
I wont quote above to not cover my thread in a huge long ass post...

But I will say this...

AC advantage is RL... nothing in game as you stated... But like the rest of the world that is life...

I could list so many different examples of this advantage over another... but the thing is...

This is an advantage that is open to everyone who takes 5-10 minutes to google... But people like to just point the cheat/abuse/hack/advantage finger at people instead of actually accepting a good idea and avoid wasting their time.


ACing is only for the early times of components and other stackables... Its also usually not possible to do it for 24/7 I think the longest I did was 8-10hrs with filters...

Hunters and Miners can actually intereact with this as they play.... they dont just click until miners extract stuff.... they get to move around... Crafting is very tedious in that it requires simple clicking.

Also... I hate when people say... if you dont like it dont do it.... That is so stupid... I love crafting I love the concept of crafting... unfourunately at the start unless your a big roller there is a heavy emphasis on skilling low TT stuff like filters or other stuff thats low.... which can get very boring very quickly... a lot quicker then shooting snabbles and other wimpy mobs.

Also... let me toss a curve ball at you....

The person who has a TV in his room clicking, but watching TV must have a RL advantage over the person who has nothing but EU... who has to pay attention while he clicks... wouldn't you agree? Since the person with the TV can actually tune out EU and watch TV and enjoy some good shows or listen to the news... while the other person only has EU and nothing else....
 
Autoclickers analyze and interfere with the data stream from your keyboard and mouse and EU, and their usage affects other participants and the ingame balance.

By the very definition of the topic starter, it is cheating.
 
So by the theory in the OP, hunting bots are legal too? Also, autoclickers do "interfere with Entropia Universe" by allowing people to click more then they would without a bot, changing market prices. Plus, it says "at MA's sole discretion," and I think they don't care for autoclickers :laugh:


:eek::eek::eek:
The real voice of reason
:cool::cool::cool:


Hopefully MA will spend more time enforcing and addressing this issue​
 
Autoclickers analyze and interfere with the data stream from your keyboard and mouse and EU, and their usage affects other participants and the ingame balance.

By the very definition of the topic starter, it is cheating.

You typing ingame, chatting and mouse clicks analyze and interferes with the data stream being sent from your computer to MA's servers, the usage thus affecting all participants and their ingame state.

You are cheating. We are cheating. Set an example and please remove yourself from this universe so we can all have a leader to follow on our way out!
 
You typing ingame, chatting and mouse clicks analyze and interferes with the data stream being sent from your computer to MA's servers, the usage thus affecting all participants and their ingame state.

You are cheating. We are cheating. Set an example and please remove yourself from this universe so we can all have a leader to follow on our way out!
That's normal behavior by 1st party software.

The EULA does not allowe 3rd party software.

Your argument is flaky :)

Follow whatever whacko you want, I don't want to be anybody's leader, what does this has to do with the discussion? Are you some kind of sheep that needs leading and can't function normally on it's own?
 
Correct my if I'm wrong Naomi, but isn't an AC a piece of software that is affecting data being sent to and from the server?

I'll actually correct you - it isn't affecting data being sent TO or FROM the server.

Someone with programming code correct me here on this example I'm about to give, please.

You have MA's servers, connected to the net, connected to your computer.
You have keyboard & mouse connected to computer.
Ergo, computer is the waypoint.
An Autoclicker tells the COMPUTER to send the data on the internet to MA's server that the mouse is clicking by emulating the command of the click.
An AC does not affect or interfere with the data stream. It tells the COMPUTER to affect or interfere with the data stream.


Yes, I'm aware I'm being hypocritical based on my previous post, but I should have added the "/sarcasm" tag to it.
 
That's normal behavior by 1st party software.

The EULA does not allowe 3rd party software.

Your argument is flaky :)

Follow whatever whacko you want, I don't want to be anybody's leader, what does this has to do with the discussion? Are you some kind of sheep that needs leading and can't function normally on it's own?

1st party software would be issued by Mindark. Point to what you have on your computer (software), attached to your computer (hardware), or even within your possession (outside of GC) that is 1st party software from Mindark.
By any and ALL viewable technical means, Windows and Linux are 3rd party software by Mindarks viewpoint.

And again, 3rd party software AT MINDARKS SOLE DISCRETION. Still waiting on the almighty word from those that matter on it, i.e. MA and/or Marco.
 
Autoclickers analyze and interfere with the data stream from your keyboard and mouse and EU, and their usage affects other participants and the ingame balance.

By the very definition of the topic starter, it is cheating.

Why do you keep posting stupid things that dont add to or eliminate any arguements...

There are plenty of arguements for including that its not even against the rules which is probably the most important... and yet you continue to take things out of context.

Your english seems very good considering you say your from Romania... maybe your understanding of it is off.... AC doesn't interfere with anything.... AC simply activates LMB at point xy,xy every X seconds for X times. I could leave it on anything, but I put it so it clicks on EU craft button. No different then if I were to click it myself really....

I dont know... Im about ready to give up debating with you on the topic since you never debunk or even challenge anyone elses view/comment, all you do is twist words or bold parts of sentences.
 
Can we stop the argueing and just post a link to a working AC for VU10 all ready? :D

You can not run 3rd party software that affects the data stream to the EU servers. Ok, AC's do not affect the data stream, I think that was meant to cover altering the data stream.

In all honesty, MA is vague in the EULA and that's usually your general 'we can change our policies at any given time to suite the nature of our current situation' bullshit the major companies throw out there. Why do you think these big companies have lawyers with fat wallets?
 
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