Changes to Add System (regarding RL advertisements)

[Ido]

I read up a discussion about ingame advertisements today on how annoying it is for players to see a comercial of McD's or whatever over and over again and not really receive anything for it.

It has been said that watching the Adds does not contribute to an individuals loot but to the global loot pool for anyone to grab... Well how is this fair in any way for the people who hope for better loot brainwashing themselves in front of ingame add screens ...

I would like to suggest a change to MA ingame RL addverts:

I think it would be much better to change the add system take away RL adds from city screens and have a seperate window with adds that opens up when u hunt mine or craft .... like kill a monster drop a bomb or click the manufacture button (anything indicating you are active so you cant just idle out in front of the add screen).

It would contain the comercial and u can choose to close it upon opening or not have them open at all (disable adds) or leave it to play visible on your screen (would be on top of all windows for the duration of the add) and after the add is done playing you would receive ... whatever money it was worth watching that comercial ... 11 pec ? i dunno

just for comparison last week 4 clicks on the google adds on my website (https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/wishlist/www.idosunrider.com) earned me 0.49$ ... so 1 click is around 0.12$ im not sure how navigating to producers website compares versus watching a 10 sec add say they pay 0.06$ ... but whatever it is wouldnt u like to get 60 pec to each of your loot for watching some crap while you run to the next mob ??

Rather then building up a ATH for one lucky individual ?...

Ido

--- EDIT ---

Because many people seem to have a wrong idea of what im talking about let me clarify a bit:

Maybe the word popup scares a lot of people ... ok imagine it this way ... an extension on top of the loot window with a video running in it...

|''''''''''''''''''|
|                  |
|     Comercial    |
|      Video       |
|                  |
-------------------
|                  |
|                  |
|        Loot      |
|                  |
|__________________|

Of course in options you can choose not to show comercial window .. if it bothers you...

After you kill a mob loot appears in your loot window and a MOVIE! (bink just like the ones played on the advert screens) is played in your video box... 10 seconds? 20 seconds .. whatever the adds last.. if u dont close it during that time and it remains 100% visible on your screen (easy to check with the graphics engine if the rendering is visible) the movie ends the video screen turns black like the loot window background and your reward appears on the top screen in form of pec or whatever the movie was worth....

No need to click it no need to link to any browser ... you have been brainwashed with new McD's special and earned ur 30 pec

 

[Tseng]

Yea, that's a good idea, but i'd like to enhance it a bit with the original idea (a ways before PE went gold). At that time, MAs "vision" was to finance big part of the loots through investment/advertisment from other companies.

The main idea was, to finance it through indirect advertisement. For example, the Trade Terminal would offer Cola cans/bottles to buy and for every Cola can bought (which could for example have a healing effect), Coca Cola would have to pay a certain amount to MindArk for it, i.e. 5-10 cent or so. Other things could be cloth shops in i.e. Hadesheim, selling branding items, such as Adidas and Puma improving the look of the participants of Entropia and wearing the logo of that branding (visible to other participants) and for buying that T-Shirt, they would also pay 5-10 cent for every virtual item bought as advertisement fee. That was the "originial" vision of a free Entropia (before they went up bankrupt before gold and was recreated as MindArk PE AB).

Now, to enhance this vision/idea, one could also add ads to loot too. For example, one could make humanoids drop Cola cans and for every cola can droped, MindArk will charge 5-10 pec from Coka Cola and the value of a Coka Cola can would be worth the same amount (5-10 pec). This way, a part of the loot isn't anymore generated by leeching other people/poor souls deposited money to feed a few lucky ones. Instead, a good part of the loot would be financed by real world companies as advertisment for their products.

If done well, this wouldn't be in any way bad for the players, since for example energy drink cans from humanoids perfectly fits to the world. Robots on other side, could drop some of the RL electronic stuff, for example PDAs, which could increase/change/replace the skin of the UI and/or the Radar (i.e. adding geographical stuff to the radar, such as a minimap instead of the normal radar with dark background and red/green dots).

And if later there are cars to be introduced, big companies such as Dodge, Mercedes, Daimler etc. could design their own futuristic designs of the cars (which would fit in the Entropia Universe) and put their brand on it. For every sold car, they have to pay a few dollars to MA (which will be added to the lootpool and then distributed in general loot).

And ingame weapons could also wear popular brands such as Heckler & Koch (instead of the "altered" Meckel & Loch). Basicly there is quite almost endless ways to add ads which fits into the game universe withouth looking disturbing and this way increasing your personal (or overall loot) by other companies. And it would also be better for the other companies to, because the advertisments would be more direct than a ads window.

For example one wearing Adidas T-Shirt would let Adidas know that the person actually was really interested in that and not only watched it halfly afk while in front of the auction. Additional to that, he would also make (free) advertisment for Adidas company by simply wearing that T-Shirt in the public or driving a char from BMW or flying a Ryanair-Space Shuttle or using a Heckler & Koch Riffle when you go out hunting.

 

[Norbert]

lol would be a nightmare in PvP , but yes good idea, also promotional items in loots would be nice like the 2nd poster mentioned - looted Nike trainers, A Ronald Macdonald mask etc.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

lol would be a nightmare in PvP , but yes good idea, also promotional items in loots would be nice like the 2nd poster mentioned - looted Nike trainers, A Ronald Macdonald mask etc.

Nike Footguards
10 impact defence
+2 agility

 

[alh]

What? you want popups ingame while hunting/mining/crafting?!

Are you crazy?

Also a lot of assumptions there on how it works, which isn't necessarily true.

And for obvious reasons you can't compare these ads to google ads, so your calculations doesn't really make sense...

Anyway, my main point is:
NO F-N WAY I want ad popups within the game, not even if my ped card increased with 1 ped each time it popped up

How would that in any way be less irritating then the onscreen ads?

 

[aridash]

this idea, with a popup or permenant window is very poor.

 

[Ido]

The popup window you can turn on or off ... jsut like u can with current adds in your options of client loader...

i dont see why all the people who complain about the McD's adds dont just turn them off ...

to be honest ... id rather have a popup window telling me Nike has a new deodorant for 10 seconds and so 25 pec additional loot than have adds streaming from the big screens which give ME as a unit .. nothing ...

And as for the benefits of Adds Ma has said they benefit the comunity as a whole and not a unit in one of the phone interviews on Entropia Radio ....

You dont want adds ...just turn them off ... lol

Anyway, my main point is:
NO F-N WAY I want ad popups within the game, not even if my ped card increased with 1 ped each time it popped up

You might not want to ... but a noob who's loot is 1-10 pec would for sure

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

And as for the benefits of Adds Ma has said they benefit the comunity as a whole and not a unit in one of the phone interviews on Entropia Radio ....

really? cause im pretty sure they have only stated "we cant talk about exactly how that works"

 

[Nadie]

No ty! I have the ad screens set to on with no sound on them and voila! annoying repetative ads are no longer annoying

 

[McCormick]

Ido :O ^^

Like, looting a monster and then *swooosh* "YOU CANT BEAT THE FEELING!"

No, no way, no no no

 

[Dion Red Strike]

It has been said that watching the Adds does not contribute to an individuals loot but to the global loot pool for anyone to grab...

It has never been said by any MA staff that I'm aware of....

EDIT: And I have specifically asked this question....

 

[Asha]

I like both Ido's and Tseng's creative ideas.
And that big companies could design their own ingame products.
Plus for people with a smaller ped card who always try to find ways just save a few pec, this would be great.
But I don't think that MA would give money to the players from the advertisements. (I know they said they would.)
Cool, new ideas.

 

[gickstery]

McD mask would give nutrio to pets for 1 week, 2 weeks, whatever the tt value

(infinite nutrios for those weeks)

 

[Ido]

It has never been said by any MA staff that I'm aware of....

EDIT: And I have specifically asked this question....

ok now u make me doubt myself but has anyone ever noticed the difference ? with adds on or off ... if they get more loot or not?

the system i propose rewards you directly for watching adds... in a obvious way... it dosent have to be an agressive advertisement maybe a banner on top of the loot window or smth ... not necesarily a big popup that covers the whole screen

I think the current system is worht s$#%@$T ... hehe i live in DK and havent seen a single RL add .. EVER !! and the MA premade ones are just boooring ...


I would leave the add screens for pearticipant generated content and have RL companies advertise in a more constructive method ...

and once again .. You dont want to see the adds .. you turn them off .. and u dont get paid for watching them ... as simple as that ...

You dont get paid for watching them now anyway ... imho at least not directly and in a worthwile obvious manner...

Ido

 

[kalanen]

Hell. No. Thanks.

 

[Returns_Again]

What? you want popups ingame while hunting/mining/crafting?!

Are you crazy?

Also a lot of assumptions there on how it works, which isn't necessarily true.

And for obvious reasons you can't compare these ads to google ads, so your calculations doesn't really make sense...

Anyway, my main point is:
NO F-N WAY I want ad popups within the game, not even if my ped card increased with 1 ped each time it popped up

How would that in any way be less irritating then the onscreen ads?

What are you smokin'??? The word "Pop-up" has gained a negative connotation for a reason, because they are annoying as hell!!!

I sure don't want to see any pop-ups while playing. I believe MA would violate its own EULA then, because that would definitely be interfearing with my experience while playing.

So, here is all I have to say in closing...

and one more in case you get that silly notion again...

 

[Tseng]

What? you want popups ingame while hunting/mining/crafting?!

Are you crazy?

this idea, with a popup or permenant window is very poor.

Why should it be crazy? Turn off and you wont see it. There is already a button to turn of the current ads system.

really? cause im pretty sure they have only stated "we cant talk about exactly how that works"

It has never been said by any MA staff that I'm aware of....

A few months ago there was a thread, someone quoted Marco or someone other from Mindark in which exactly this was started, that the money from the ads just goes to the lootpool and this ways theoretically increasing the loot (theoreticaly, as practically it's not). So if 90% of the people have ads on and you have it of, it's same for you. No personal benefit on having them enabled.

What are you smokin'??? The word "Pop-up" has gained a negative connotation for a reason, because they are annoying as hell!!!

I sure don't want to see any pop-ups while playing. I believe MA would violate its own EULA then, because that would definitely be interfearing with my experience while playing.

Then they would also be violating against it now, as there are Ads-screens now ingame

But you guys are all ignorants. How can you cry that it would influence your experience with Ido's system but not influence your gaming experience as it's now (with also ads-screens in every city/auciton/mall/etc.

 

[Harvest]

Just be cool to see how much the ad's would actual add to your loot pool. You watch an add and 0.0000000000000001 ped added to you loot pool

 

[Returns_Again]

Then they would also be violating against it now, as there are Ads-screens now ingame

But you guys are all ignorants. How can you cry that it would influence your experience with Ido's system but not influence your gaming experience as it's now (with also ads-screens in every city/auciton/mall/etc.

Not true, as it stands right now, I do not have to click a pop-up window when I see an ad in the trade center or other location, I walk right by it, and it is part of the scenery... I can ignore it if I want, and it is still displayed.

In Ido's example, it becomes more a part of our HUD, like the loot window, and we would have to actually interact with it, or click it to not return.

So you get a nut kick for calling me ignorant.

 

[Ido]

What are you smokin'??? The word "Pop-up" has gained a negative connotation for a reason, because they are annoying as hell!!!

I sure don't want to see any pop-ups while playing. I believe MA would violate its own EULA then, because that would definitely be interfearing with my experience while playing.

So, here is all I have to say in closing...

and one more in case you get that silly notion again...

you know the loot window is also a popup window ... why not make part of display a comercial you will be paid to watch .. IF you choose to watch it ...

Disable in options...


Walking past a screen does not generate any money in EU u have to actualy stand and point ur eyes thorwards the screen to be counted as watching the commercial...

 

[thoreau]

i think that an ad system where you get paid to click would be a huge security risk for MA. essentially it would open the game to various hacks and exploits.

 

[Indigo Wyrd]

I laughed hard the first time I saw the McD's ad on a screen.
It's a darn shame the ad marketing folks at MA aren't doing a better job for commercial advertisement - there are some riotous ads out there, and they don't bother me any seeing them on the big screens... if only they rotated better.

 

[thoreau]

if only they rotated better.

i don't think there are many buyers. so if you do buy an ad you're one of only a few in rotation.

i have the sound turned off on the ads so they don't bother me. however, if MA can sell ads to McDonalds I think that players should be able to use the ad system to sell their own real life products. i think that at the moment that is not ok to do.

for example, if you do graphic art in the real world and you play entropia you should be able to sell your services on the big screen.

 

[Tseng]

Not true, as it stands right now, I do not have to click a pop-up window when I see an ad in the trade center or other location, I walk right by it, and it is part of the scenery... I can ignore it if I want, and it is still displayed.

It's not even about clicking on it, just viewing. If you view it on the big ads-screens in the city or in a smaller one in the loot window or loot an "advertised product", you can still ignore it (or even better: Disable it).

@thoreau:
You don't have to implement clicks. Then the only thing that's displayed is the video/textures/audio as it's now. Beside that, it's not really such a problem as you may thing. Works quite fine in Second Life too. If you're sent a link (or request one) you get the window showing the exact url of to be opend and then it's for you to decide if you wanna open it or ignore it.

If you click on a Microsoft ad and get to www.geocities.com/blahblah/ then obviously something is not right

But that's not really a term for discussion, as it wasn't asked to implement clicks but get paid for viewing (or looting) the ads.

 

[micker]

I read up a discussion about ingame advertisements today on how annoying it is for players to see a comercial of McD's or whatever over and over again and not really receive anything for it.

You get to play a game, for FREE! What more could you ask for than free?!

The change that needs to be made is a better self serve advertising system allowing for the purchase of ads with a credit card and the uploading of video ads. In addition, hot linking with the launch of an embedded browser allowing for direct response sales would increase the value of the advertising system as well.

I sent gave up trying to send emails to the boutique agency that brokers the bink ads in eu. Three emails in two weeks and no response. It's time for a self serve system MA!

 

[Tseng]

You get to play a game, for FREE! What more could you ask for than free?!

This game is not free, unless you want to call chatting as "free to play". Every action (beside chatting and walking/exploring) in EU costs you money.

So technically EU shouldnt call itself free to play game. There are other games which really deserves that title, such as RF Online, Silkroad Online, Archlord and many of the other real free2play games, where you can indeed PLAY for free and they finance the servers etc. by selling additional bonus items (such as scrolls which gives you XP buffs, or special items which can only be bought by real money).

So please don't mess up free2chat with free2play. Thanks

 

[micker]

This game is not free, unless you want to call chatting as "free to play". Every action (beside chatting and walking/exploring) in EU costs you money.

It doesnt have to cost you money. I know two players personally that do not deposit and sweated their way up. Sweating costs nothing, but its challenging and therefor most take the easy route and just pull out the credit card.

The _game_ is free, not free to chat, but free to play. As a matter of fact, my favorite event on fridays costs nothing to take part in.

 

[alh]

Why should it be crazy? Turn off and you wont see it. There is already a button to turn of the current ads system.

The ad screen I only have to see in town, and there they also fit the atmosphere. Even though they are unrelated to the experience, they still kindof "fit in the world" to have them there.
Adding banners to loot windows and popups would be a too big break in the illusion, not to mention extremely annoying...

A few months ago there was a thread, someone quoted Marco or someone other from Mindark in which exactly this was started, that the money from the ads just goes to the lootpool and this ways theoretically increasing the loot (theoreticaly, as practically it's not). So if 90% of the people have ads on and you have it of, it's same for you. No personal benefit on having them enabled.

Please dig this up and post a link to it.
I think you are mistaken.
Probably some grain of truth, but with a giant hyperbole attached to it.

Then they would also be violating against it now, as there are Ads-screens now ingame

But you guys are all ignorants. How can you cry that it would influence your experience with Ido's system but not influence your gaming experience as it's now (with also ads-screens in every city/auciton/mall/etc.

Well... one easy to spot difference:
With the ad screens, I only have to go out of town for a while to avoid them a bit, and to enjoy some peace and quiet in the calypsian nature.
I don't mind them, if they are not just there _all_the_time_.

With your silly popup suggestions, there would be NO WHERE to hide.

Also, the above argument (that anyone in knowledgable in game design knows of) There is a fine line to walk when you want to put real life ads in a game.
You must take real care to fit it in the experience, or most players will think you are idiots and go play something else

popups and banners in the loot window is about the worst fit you could imagine...

And its funny how you two don't understand that if MA would to do something like this, you would get popups, but no way in hell would you get pecs put on your card for each view or some special items in loot

The idea of branded loot is though a good one, (and MA has actually said they have thought about it) but these are ads in them selfs! you don't have to push up popups and banners in my face to be able to implement that.

 

[NightwolfAA2k5]

Sure, I am all for it. Especially if it improves loot...

The _game_ is free, not free to chat, but free to play. As a matter of fact, my favorite event on fridays costs nothing to take part in.

Ahh, but the 100-200mb per hour data download DOES cost money.

- Nightwolf

 

[NastyCenturion]

Nope ... i dont want to see ads pop on my screen (and dont say to turn off because MA specifies that with ads off u will have less loot, even if it is not proven, no one will take the chance)

So my vote is no.

Who stay in a city that much and stares at McD's ads ? u know u should play this game not chat in the city ...
And no one guarantees that with popup ads the loot will improve ...