Entropia Universe is not a casino

[Naithen]

Its a CASINO ffs ! The free shit you get is just like the free entertainment casinos give you like the Tigers at the MGM Grand in Vegas its all meant to draw you in so you get bit by the bigger bug "ohhh i want a MOD MERC one day" its all the same shit so theres no sence trying to deny your in a CASINO BABY so get over it already you gambling fool !

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Its a CASINO ffs ! The free shit you get is just like the free entertainment casinos give you like the Tigers at the MGM Grand in Vegas its all meant to draw you in so you get bit by the bigger bug "ohhh i want a MOD MERC one day" its all the same shit so theres no sence trying to deny your in a CASINO BABY so get over it already you gambling fool !

that is your opinion and your welcome to it BABY ! lol

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Hellraizer.

How much $ have you "earned" and withdrawn? It's obvious you play smart and are here to "earn", so I assume you're wildly successful at it.

Give us some facts and figures.

For my job, I go to work, I earn X amount of $ for X amount of hours.

For my avatar, I go to "work", I may or may NOT earn X amount of $ for my time spent. In fact, I may even "lose" $ for my "work", depending alot on luck and some algorithm in MA's computers.

If that's NOT chance, I don't know what is.

Call it what you want, Casino, game, etc. But a wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf.

If it makes you feel better to call it a game of skill, feel free. Nobody is forcing you to think it's a casino or a casino like game.

1/3 of the folks in this thread probably will NOT be here in another year or 2 because they "think" they are going to earn any substantial amount of $ by playing for free or on the cheap.

last count was what? 500k accounts registered. How many of those are actually active?

i missed this post... i have deposited about 40k ped and looted back in globals and hofs alone.. around 55-60% of that without trying to profit, (TT value)..i have sold thousands of skill points to cover bad times and i'm currently around 85k skill points in hunting alone.. i'm a hardcore entropian and have been here 13 months and have logged over 12 hours a day almost everday since.. if i say out of 365 days i have hunted for over 8 hours a day for 355 days

in my fist year i hit lvl 48 hunter

i have never withdrawn money and never intend to do so

even if i hit the biggest ATH of all time.. my peds stay in-game.

and i never said it was a game of skill.. but maybe it is

 

[Profit]

Yes it is.
I'm just lucky that I win more often than I lose.

 

[Brooklyn]

Life is gamble and if you want to say we are all in the casino of life...then that's the metaphor you can choose to use..

but for me EU is more like life and alternate life is the description I choose to use... where I am a colonist on distant world with a stake of a couple of thousand peds and my role is to learn how to survive and prosper... Since all my great grand parents were immigrants to America at the turn of the century and I myself and immigrant to Sweden at the turn of this century...the immigrant experience of arriving in a new land and making is the best metaphor I can think for engaging in this environment...

If engaged that way it can be mastered enough to remove a large amount of the risks and losses... and build wealth over time... a very long time... of course with large amounts of patience and time it can be done... I am constantly amazed at how much money people just toss into and waste in this alternative life... as if throwing money at the problem is only answer... and because they failed to learn early lesson of balancing... income with expenses over the long run and simple household economics of saving a little to get ahead or see you over the hard times plus getting the most out of materials, efforts, equipment and maximising FPC play time in solving the problems of survival...

If you do an analysis of the loot from mining, sweating and hunting, and gathering they pretty much match the necessary materials for higher processing and manufacturing and skill gains across the board...

For example nexus is a relatively common energy source that’s is easily mined with tt equipment... and combined with free sweat to make ME with a very high mark-up....In hunting basic leather, wool, extractors all come from low level mobs the first to be hunted and along gatherer substances all match up with level one texture blueprints...which when manufacturing give you waste which as you move to manufacture of items such as level guns, attachments, shirts etc...add value...

What I'm trying to say is that if look at the way the total environment is structured is does provide all you needs without investing huge sums... globals or Big HOF's... or uber loots etc... It's the basic stuff and what you do with that determines your ground success... not luck... luck like in life is just the icing on the cake... People who work in casinos... rarely gamble... it is just the tourists...

So not really a casino… a life lived alternatively…

I don't gamble with life... I live it....

 

[Deleted member 23278]

Yes it is.
I'm just lucky that I win more often than I lose.

yes it is what?... yes it is elephants ?

ahhh you've been "lucky" then... good for you that you'd rather think you were lucky than to think you did something right.

 

[GoNi]

you could enter a casino and offer a service to the high-stake players: you go to the counter and bring them 10k$ more chips, and they don't have to walk over themselves, and they pay you a 1$-chip for each walk..
that's about how 'free' the sweat-peds are..

Well thats money of players, not money given by the provider (operator) of the casino. A service you offer to players can´t be considered as something you get for free from the casino! Its an option you can do, but not an option offered by the casino itselfs.
If the casino offers to give you anything for free, that you may sell to any player entering the casino, then it would be the same like sweating in EU, but it isn´t!
BTW, the money you get for the sweat in EU is from other players, too.
But the sweat itselfs you get for free, from MA.
Kinda different than your service in a casino.

also, many casinos offer dinner-meals for maybe 20$ and you get 10$ chips for 'free' with the dinner.. and there is no entry-fee in a casino, so access and staying is for free..

Well I have to pay 20$ to get a meal and 10$ in chips. Well the meal cost 10$ and the chips cost 10$, only thing you do is buying this as a package. Where is this for free ???

EU is still for free! download free. Log in free. Start Skilling free. make money from sweat free. All for free!
There are a lot of ways to skill for free in EU, and everybody knows that these skills may be sold for real cash if you find a buyer. Some buyers provide the ESI if you are trustworthy enough.

There are a lot more ways to make real cash in EU without any need of gambling, and these cash may be used to improve your skills in other proffessions, that are expencive like hunting, mining, crafting.
I always calculate a loss befor I go out to a hunt or miningrun. And hey always a surprise if its not a loss. Anyway if I lose some money in the skillingprogress and have lots of fun on the way, whats wrong about that.

BTW, compare the money/time spent for entertainment in EU to other RL activity you do just for entertainment, you will see EU is a relatively cheap entertainment.

 

[Tricity]

what is entropia? what is casino? dont play dont care anymore and am a lotta happier
recommend eve online
recommend avoinding brooklyn

 

[Tricity]

Life is gamble and if you want to say we are all in the casino of life...then that's the metaphor you can choose to use..

but for me EU is more like life and alternate life is the description I choose to use... where I am a colonist on distant world with a stake of a couple of thousand peds and my role is to learn how to survive and prosper... Since all my great grand parents were immigrants to America at the turn of the century and I myself and immigrant to Sweden at the turn of this century...the immigrant experience of arriving in a new land and making is the best metaphor I can think for engaging in this environment...

If engaged that way it can be mastered enough to remove a large amount of the risks and losses... and build wealth over time... a very long time... of course with large amounts of patience and time it can be done... I am constantly amazed at how much money people just toss into and waste in this alternative life... as if throwing money at the problem is only answer... and because they failed to learn early lesson of balancing... income with expenses over the long run and simple household economics of saving a little to get ahead or see you over the hard times plus getting the most out of materials, efforts, equipment and maximising FPC play time in solving the problems of survival...

If you do an analysis of the loot from mining, sweating and hunting, and gathering they pretty much match the necessary materials for higher processing and manufacturing and skill gains across the board...

For example nexus is a relatively common energy source that’s is easily mined with tt equipment... and combined with free sweat to make ME with a very high mark-up....In hunting basic leather, wool, extractors all come from low level mobs the first to be hunted and along gatherer substances all match up with level one texture blueprints...which when manufacturing give you waste which as you move to manufacture of items such as level guns, attachments, shirts etc...add value...

What I'm trying to say is that if look at the way the total environment is structured is does provide all you needs without investing huge sums... globals or Big HOF's... or uber loots etc... It's the basic stuff and what you do with that determines your ground success... not luck... luck like in life is just the icing on the cake... People who work in casinos... rarely gamble... it is just the tourists...

So not really a casino… a life lived alternatively…

I don't gamble with life... I live it....

blah blah blah lotsa uber items require the same very basic materials so what is ur point really? nvm dont answer i wont bother reading anyways.

 

[Profit]

yes it is what?... yes it is elephants ?

ahhh you've been "lucky" then... good for you that you'd rather think you were lucky than to think you did something right.

Do you know the topic of your own thread?
"EU is not a casino" - yes it is.
Yes I am lucky, the things I'm doing that you'd consider "right" are similar to the things I do at a casino to minimise the likelihood of being taken to the cleaners.
Don't get offended that my opinions differ from yours.

Gamble - take a risk in the hope of a favorable outcome
An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance.
The act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize).


Hmm, sure sounds like EU to me...

 

[Scudd]

BTW, compare the money/time spent for entertainment in EU to other RL activity you do just for entertainment, you will see EU is a relatively cheap entertainment.

Sorry Goni,

I have to totally disagree with you here!!

EU is definatley not a "relatively cheap entertainment" if you play against MindArk, if you choose to play the game as they want you to play it, I'm afraid you will be very dissapointed!!

In May 2007 I sent a support case to MindArk and complained about my 50k losses in just 7 months. Hey ho.. not a huge amount... BIG MISTAKE!!!

Since that day.... the losses have been "immense", my ROI was slashed majorly and to this day the losses have been continual.. I have "never" broken even or profited since that support case...

My losses currently stand at over 220,000.00 ped in deposits alone and I have now stopped depositing, why?... not becuase I can't afford to deposit but I honestly dont see the point and feel its pointless to continue.. investment in my avatar has been a complete waste of time as the results have been exactly the same!!

MindArk know exactly what I'm saying as I have been through this a million times with them and every support case gets closed with no answers as to why..

Where next?

I have know idea... I'm not an addict or a gambling freak, just a regular person (as many of you here) trying to enjoy Entropia.. a game that has become so expensive to play that it in the end it drives people to give up something they once enjoyed!

Is this a casino... hell no!

In a casino you get to see everyones hands "above" the table!! Unlike here...

Regards
Jack Scudd Samuels

 

[GoNi]

Sorry Goni,

I have to totally disagree with you here!!

EU is definatley not a "relatively cheap entertainment" if you play against MindArk, if you choose to play the game as they want you to play it, I'm afraid you will be very dissapointed!!

In May 2007 I sent a support case to MindArk and complained about my 50k losses in just 7 months. Hey ho.. not a huge amount... BIG MISTAKE!!!

Since that day.... the losses have been "immense", my ROI was slashed majorly and to this day the losses have been continual.. I have "never" broken even or profited since that support case...

My losses currently stand at over 220,000.00 ped in deposits alone and I have now stopped depositing, why?... not becuase I can't afford to deposit but I honestly dont see the point and feel its pointless to continue.. investment in my avatar has been a complete waste of time as the results have been exactly the same!!

MindArk know exactly what I'm saying as I have been through this a million times with them and every support case gets closed with no answers as to why..

Where next?

I have know idea... I'm not an addict or a gambling freak, just a regular person (as many of you here) trying to enjoy Entropia.. a game that has become so expensive to play that it in the end it drives people to give up something they once enjoyed!

Is this a casino... hell no!

In a casino you get to see everyones hands "above" the table!! Unlike here...

Regards
Jack Scudd Samuels

Well I am not dissapointed.
I know the thread you started back then, and if I remember right I have made some replys there, too!

I don´t expect any ROI on my deposits!
For me is EU entertainment, and every deposit is considered as a payment for this entertainment.
I don´t need to hunt Dasp, mine with OA-109 or craft 50 PED/click BPs to get entertainment in EU!
For me its enough when I go through 10k Ammo (100 PED=10$) and have some fun while doing that. Such an hunt lasts around 2-4hours using my actual gear, and average return is around 50% these days. So it cost me around 2,5- 5$ per hour, whats less than 1 hour at my local billard pub, where I have to pay 10$ an hour at the billard table.

What you are doing is gambling, and yes its possible to gamble in EU!
Its your own fault that you deposit that much and spent it on activities that eat up all your PED that fast.

Doing these expencive things is ok from time to time, but not every day for many hours!
So if I hit a nice HoF and grab some Rugariz from that money and do a few clicks on MR-105 thats a very short entertainment! But after these few clicks back to the ground and do something less risky at an affordable expence, as you should always bear in mind: What you spent for an activity in EU is very likely lost or at least cut into half

You got my point?

 

[Profit]

So basically, you're saying, if you don't want to lose tonnes of money, don't progress through the levels of the game?
Then why play?
The point of any game is to progress. The problem with EU is that progression means immense cost. You cannot argue this, the only people who can are the 0.01% of players that actually profit and withdraw on a regular basis and these people either, a: were here before the nerfs, giving them an unfair advantage, or, b: made (relatively large, in most cases) investments on items that allow them better eco or advantage, OR, c: made a VERY lucky click that brought a nice pay cheque (or they trade, in which case I'd suggest getting a real job, they pay better).

If you're not in this game to progress and say you're here for fun and enjoyment, then I put it to you that you need to experience other games, as EU is not fun in comparison to other games. This games biggest draw (or retention) card, is that the community, generally, is amazing and that there is the potential to make a bit of money on the side. The biggest downfall of this game is, unless you're content being a low-mid level player for the rest of your life, this game will cost you an arm, leg, pelvis and index finger.

Most expensive click fest in history, PERIOD.

I accept the cost, but that doesn't make it acceptable.

BTW, compare the money/time spent for entertainment in EU to other RL activity you do just for entertainment, you will see EU is a relatively cheap entertainment.

WRONG. For the 15 years prior to finding EU I played only games that didn't cost ANYTHING, with the exception of installation disk.
Not to mention Basketball, Rowing, socialising, writing music, etc etc etc...
The only people who don't spend money in EU, play boring, sweating, finding fruit, trading for PEC's profit etc etc... I did this for 3 months, before realising what a HUGE waste of time it was. Working 1 hour IRL pays better than a weeks worth of the aforementioned.

 

[Zacariaz]

You it's true. In the event that you don't win, it might, at least partly, be your own fault. However, this doesn't mean that EU is not a casino. You can also make mistakes in a casino.

Now, basicly what I hear you say, though I may misinterpet it, is that everyone can win if they play smart.

Ok, so before I try an prove you wrong, I just wanna make sure that you understand that I don't consider sweating and other free activities that you might make money on here, as these activities are very time consuming and a lot of people don't really find it very fun.

It's true that there's other areas where a little investment and brain can ensure success, fx. trading, in this discussion suck activities have no place. You might earn money in a casino brining people drinks are something, but you're not playing the game.

So basicly what we got left is hunting, mining and crafting.

Hunting:
Some who have a <BLEEP!>load of money, may be able to invest a whole lot of money in skills and equipment so that they might be able to play the game eco enough to win a little, but this is not the average player. I'd say that it's reasonable to deposit $20 a month, which mean that in my +4 year of playing my total investment would be something like $1000. When that is said, I have often had trouble playing the game for less than $100 per month, which is far more than I can affort, but eh, I'm addicted.

So what can you get for 10.000 ped? mod merc? adjmk2? imp/adj/mod fap? The list goes on, but I think the answer is clear. your equipment will be mediocre at best.

So we have established that it is not the equipment that counts, then it must be the skills right? Well, I have well over 10.000 peds worth of hunting skills and I have tried to hunt every single mob at the level, and some some above, the level that I am. Sure there have been times where I've gotten lucky, but overall it has always been a loss.


Crafting:

I'm not gonna comment a lot on this area other than it's the one area where I believe a profit can be ensured, but again, this does not apply to the average player.

Mining:

There are some who believe they have figured out the system and I'm happy for them, but I've tried just about anything. Only thing that is sure is that higher skills enables you to find higher MU ores and enmatters, but again, I've had 4 years of experience and overall, I've never won.


FACT:
In a self contained system, which the Entropia Universe is at this time, when someone wins, someone else lose. Actually it's much worse than this as we also have to pay MA emplyees salery, server maintenense, and so on and so forth.

So the have the total economy X. then we have the total expense Y. X is yours and mine deposits, but then we suctract Y from X and in order to get everything to add up, one of us has to deposit and the one who has to deposit is the loser.

Thus we have determined that there's losers and winners and if those two groups are not determined by skill and by that I don't mean rifle, hg, engi or whatever, but real human skill, then it's determined either by money or luck.

If money is the desciding factor, then we are kinda back at the casino. When someone places a bet on red and lose all he/she has to do is double the next bet until such time as he/she wins. (this is of course only theory) But not all of us can affort to do this.

If luck is the desciding factor, then we are definently back at the casino.


The only thing that for sure can pay our bills is sweating and finding stones, fruit and such, but this will not make you win, it only enables you to play a, IMHO, very good game for free. If you're lucky you hof, if you're wise you make profitable investments (trading) and if you're patient you sweat.

The bill has to be payed in one way or another so either we all lose or some lose and some win.

I've already written way more than I intented and I don't really know how much sence it makes, but no one is likely to read it all anyway.


Regards and goodnight

 

[domchristopher]

Umm.. if you walk into a casino, you only spend money on what you want to . The idea is you keep putting money in until your skill at poker allows you to profit. And if not, hey, you're just paying for enjoyment, eh?

Seriously... many online money games are based on a psuedo-random number generator. MA's lootsystem also has to be based RNG, unless Marco monitors every player and manually hands out their loot. When I questioned MA about the closeness of EU to a casino, they listed two excuses: you choose what you want to do and that it's based skill. All that means is that one factor of the algorithm has to include a variation of your skills.

 

[valentin]

Sorry Goni,

I have to totally disagree with you here!!

EU is definatley not a "relatively cheap entertainment" if you play against MindArk, if you choose to play the game as they want you to play it, I'm afraid you will be very dissapointed!!

In May 2007 I sent a support case to MindArk and complained about my 50k losses in just 7 months. Hey ho.. not a huge amount... BIG MISTAKE!!!

Since that day.... the losses have been "immense", my ROI was slashed majorly and to this day the losses have been continual.. I have "never" broken even or profited since that support case...

My losses currently stand at over 220,000.00 ped in deposits alone and I have now stopped depositing, why?... not becuase I can't afford to deposit but I honestly dont see the point and feel its pointless to continue.. investment in my avatar has been a complete waste of time as the results have been exactly the same!!

MindArk know exactly what I'm saying as I have been through this a million times with them and every support case gets closed with no answers as to why..

Where next?

I have know idea... I'm not an addict or a gambling freak, just a regular person (as many of you here) trying to enjoy Entropia.. a game that has become so expensive to play that it in the end it drives people to give up something they once enjoyed!

Is this a casino... hell no!

In a casino you get to see everyones hands "above" the table!! Unlike here...

Regards
Jack Scudd Samuels

So now you have to listen to the holy words.....

1. You was not om the right spot.
2. This game is dynamic.
3. You have dunn things over the limit off your skills.
4. You do things with bad eco.
5. You dont play smart.
6. you have not deposit enough.
7. Its not your turn to hit the big one.
8. You had bad luck.
9. You havent been mining, hunting, crafting enough.
10. your avatar is mot lucky.
11. You are not one off MA:s favorite.
12. You have to low skills.
13. You have to try new profession.
14. You dont use brain.
15. you are not in top 10 soc.
16. MA keeps a balance in the game.


Sorry i cant find more excuses just now but i am convinced there is many more off them.
And remember its not a casino.

And btw... ( 50k losses in just 7 months ) is not so much...there if avatars who has lost much more in 7 months.

 

[Profit]

I'd love to see the lotteries commission reports on EU from when MA was investigated a few years back. I'd imagine the ONLY reason it wasn't classified a lottery, is the fact that avatar skill is a variable in ROI, a very very small variable.

 

[Yirrk]

YOU take risks if YOU want to.

YOU walk into a casino if YOU want to, it's still a casino. What's your point?

 

[The Butcher]

W00t my turn!

been practically foaming at the mouth since page 2 to reply, finished the whole thread, here goes :

it has been stated that average mob loot is something like 3 pec or so...

then you haven't played this 'game' beyond the level of a 3 day n00b.

comments about casinos having same properties as EU does not make EU a casino..
this term is used far too often to some up the game in one word.

i'll say again that i don't deny that there are gambling/risk aspects to EU but also there is alot more to the game than just click and hope..

besides sweating, give me one example.



give me, in one word, one better word to describe it. (a just answer doesn't prove anything, just saying )

WE meaning NOT me.. i don't treat it as a casino obviously

oh, sorry. you're right. go back to sweating (something for nothing), i suddenly see your wisdom.

i

i don't even do the lottery.. i placed a bet on a horse race once it was a 6 race accumulator.. i won every race and haven't gambled since (or before)

so you quit while you were ahead, commendable. transfer that to EU language: I came ahead hunting daikaba young-mature and withdrew all my 'investments' and came out 20$ ahead@@

and an extra THX to those that agree with me

so +rep me in return.

I've made my point good enough i think so i'll let you guys carryon.

"i'm out of ideas, you guys go ahead.... except if you read on i'm not"

Your local store/shop/supermarket/petrol station/newsagent all sell scratch cards !! do you call THEM casinos ?

no, i call that gambling... you know... what you do in a casino.

as i've said twice now that there are gambling aspects or what seem to be gambling aspects.. does not mean the game is a casino...

no, but it's gambling. again, what you do i a casino.



Goni: i'm sure you could wash some dishes in a back room for chips.

indeed.. i'm glad to see another player that grasps the concept of the word "casino"

see: reply to goni.

I hope this thread stays alive a long time to counteract blind statements about EU being a casino.

some aspects appeal to gamblers... check

some aspects appeal to bussiness men... check

some aspects appeal to house bound people...check

some aspects appeal to designers...check

some aspects appeal to programers..check

The list is endless........ check

summarising gambling in no other way: check!

the word casino here applies to SOME people.....already been said

I'm backpedalling now, in other words: "i've covered all my bases you can't dispute me, just give me rep or move on.

i have sold thousands of skill points to cover bad times and i'm currently around 85k skill points in hunting alone.. i'm a hardcore entropian and have been here 13 months and have logged over 12 hours a day almost everday since.. if i say out of 365 days i have hunted for over 8 hours a day for 355 days

in my fist year i hit lvl 48 hunter

in other words: i'm going to scare any counter-opinions off with my "uber-dedication". Dude, you can't touch me. come back with something more.



edit: my mouse batteries were dying and my post got submitted half way through and editing messed it up even worse. any clarification i would be happy to provide in this thread, publically of course.

 

[Brooklyn]

Ok, so before I try an prove you wrong, I just wanna make sure that you understand that I don't consider sweating and other free activities that you might make money on here, as these activities are very time consuming and a lot of people don't really find it very fun.

It's true that there's other areas where a little investment and brain can ensure success, fx. trading, in this discussion suck activities have no place. You might earn money in a casino brining people drinks are something, but you're not playing the game....

The only thing that for sure can pay our bills is sweating and finding stones, fruit and such, but this will not make you win, it only enables you to play a, IMHO, very good game for free. If you're lucky you hof, if you're wise you make profitable investments (trading) and if you're patient you sweat.

You just described what winning is... in this Alternative Life scenario... as in real life on earth 99.9% of the people never make to the top but still live very successful and positive and productive lives at all levels of existence...

Set in the future, you are invited
to join an open-ended social, economic and political action-adventure as a human colonist on a distant alien planet. The sandbox approach allows you to choose your own path and write a unique story with others from around the world.
You will enter a new chapter in Calypso’s story. After an exhausting five year conflict with an invading robot enemy, the long awaited promise of peace and prosperity on Calypso remains elusive. With the robots repelled to their home world Akbal-Cimi, cracks in colonist solidarity are emerging. The war-time economy has produced industrialists with the resources to buy up Calypso’s precious land, while disgruntled ex-soldiers are left to wander Calypso, hunting and mining for their survival. A rising middle-class of entrepreneurs is irritating both. All are disillusioned with Earth’s Federal Empire that left the colony to fend for itself during the robot war. You will land on a Calypso with revolution and civil war in the air.

Have you got what it takes to stake a claim on Calypso?​

​

This is the "game" if want to call it that and how it is structured... if you choose make it a gambling adventure and play as if you're in a casino... you are not playing this game... and you will be disappointed and loose lots of money... and it will cost hundreds of dollars per hour... just as if you are in a casino... of your own making... I'm still aghast at a 5,000 dollar loss in 7 months... and 22,000 dollars over all...

Good movie references "A Man Called Horse" and "Jerimiah Johnson"

Learn to be where you are... in the here and now... in this Alternative Universe...

 

[Deleted member 23278]

been practically foaming at the mouth since page 2 to reply, finished the whole thread, here goes :



then you haven't played this 'game' beyond the level of a 3 day n00b.





besides sweating, give me one example.



give me, in one word, one better word to describe it. (a just answer doesn't prove anything, just saying )



oh, sorry. you're right. go back to sweating (something for nothing), i suddenly see your wisdom.

i

so you quit while you were ahead, commendable. transfer that to EU language: I came ahead hunting daikaba young-mature and withdrew all my 'investments' and came out 20$ ahead@@



so +rep me in return.



"i'm out of ideas, you guys go ahead.... except if you read on i'm not"



no, i call that gambling... you know... what you do in a casino.


no, but it's gambling. again, what you do i a casino.



Goni: i'm sure you could wash some dishes in a back room for chips.



see: reply to goni.



summarising gambling in no other way: check!



I'm backpedalling now, in other words: "i've covered all my bases you can't dispute me, just give me rep or move on.



in other words: i'm going to scare any counter-opinions off with my "uber-dedication". Dude, you can't touch me. come back with something more.



edit: my mouse batteries were dying and my post got submitted half way through and editing messed it up even worse. any clarification i would be happy to provide in this thread, publically of course.

Your not very good at twisting peoples words but damn you do try hard don't you.

Your aggressive responses show signs that you want it to be a casino.. that's up to you but there's no need to label other people as gamblers.

 

[coubo]

i am against the term "the house always wins"

So you mean that MA does not always win?
or do you mean that you know MA always win, but you are in denial?

The above post summarize the "gambling" aspect of EU. EU is definitely much more complex that a casino, so you can argue it's not a casino but it is definitely gambling. Gambling means uncertainty to win or loose, with no guarantee of winning. As far as I know, as uber as you can be, you are never guaranteed to win in EU. At best you are profiting on average (and very little people can do that) and you rely on the law of large numbers to make a profit.
However, as people familiar with statistics know, the convergence of the law of large number is low (proportional to sqrt). With a 110% average returm, you have still a significant chance to be under with 200 attempts

You can try this yourself with excel
type "=rand()+if(rand()<1%,70,0)-1"
This formula has an expectation of exactly +0.1 and it reflects a randomness with spikes of luck ("global")
now scroll it down the number of times you like 200, 1000 and sum it. Press F9 a few times and see whether or not you are under

You can compare EU to poker in a number of way. You can play smart, you can outplay other players and make profits even with the house takes its rack. However, poker is gambling - no matter how good you are, luck is still a factor. There is no guarantee of result, expectations at best if you play against player less skilled than yourself

Last thought, if you were alone in EU. You play only against the house. Would it be a casino?

 

[The Butcher]

I was gonna carry on my drunken way after seeing an 'unjust' thread. but i cannot anymore.

Your not very good at twisting peoples words but damn you do try hard don't you.

dude, i quoted you word for word. what's speaking for you, your rose-colored glasses, or experience?

Look, I don't care if it's gambling, a casino, or guranteed 60% or greater.. I profit all the same. And I don't care if you're hunting dasp's 1k peds at a time or daik's youngs 10 peds at a time.. show me one equation where you can estimate your return. Oh right, you can't. Cause IT ISN'T POSSIBLE. It's what??? A GAMBLE. Time for another Jager shot. Cheers bro, nothing personal at all, but let's be serious.

 

[tanor]

.. show me one equation where you can estimate your return. Oh right, you can't. Cause IT ISN'T POSSIBLE. It's what??? A GAMBLE.

To be honest...I'am tired of such discussion...there seems to be no possible result.

But I like the above statement...
I could handle my job like described in "The way of the Rat". That would be gamble.

You can turn nearly everything in life to gamble. The good thing on Entropia is: You don't have to!

If I deposit I see this as a payment for entertainment. And I don't deposit more than I would spend for cinema in one month... I don't care what happens inside of the Universe as I don't ever expect to get anything back.

A gamble requires that you expect to get something back. I don't so I don't gamble. As simple as that.

Of course you can choose to gamble inside the Entropia Universe. But that does not mean that all participants are gambling.

Tanor

 

[The Butcher]

~

edited: i usually require that i remember my posts, that they are understandable, and/or make sense

 

[Profit]

Gamble - take a risk in the hope of a favorable outcome
An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance.
The act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize).


Hmm, sure sounds like EU to me...

*cough*

 

[Igorl]

EU has a slot machine based loot system.

Only way to profit is not to milk the house (MA) but other players via selling markup items you receive.

Face it:

- EU is not the best looking MMO around
- EU is not the most popular MMO around
- EU has very small attendace compared to other popular MMO
- EU skilling system is of such kind that it doesnt provide solid and tangible powerups or leveling
- EU pvp is not based on your motoric skills
- EU hunting / mining is basically grinding of the worst kind
- EU crafting is AC slotmachine


- YET WE LOVE IT - BECAUSE ITS THE WAY TO GAMBLE WHILE TELLING OUR WIVES THAT WE ARE PLAYING A GAME

I.

 

[coubo]

EU has a slot machine based loot system.

Only way to profit is not to milk the house (MA) but other players via selling markup items you receive.

Face it:

- EU is not the best looking MMO around
- EU is not the most popular MMO around
- EU has very small attendace compared to other popular MMO
- EU skilling system is of such kind that it doesnt provide solid and tangible powerups or leveling
- EU pvp is not based on your motoric skills
- EU hunting / mining is basically grinding of the worst kind
- EU crafting is AC slotmachine


- YET WE LOVE IT - BECAUSE ITS THE WAY TO GAMBLE WHILE TELLING OUR WIVES THAT WE ARE PLAYING A GAME

I.

lol - nice one

 

[Pepto]

Gamble - take a risk in the hope of a favorable outcome
An activity characterised by a balance between winning and losing that is governed by a mixture of skill and chance.
The act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize).


Hmm, sure sounds like EU to me...

End of discussion really

 

[Noggin]

I really don't know who anyone's kidding saying that EU's not a gamble, as so many people have said on this thread. It is a gamble, and depending on how you play, the size of the gamble can be quite significant.

One of the biggest differences I see between EU and casino games is that, in a casino, usually if you bet big, you have more chance of winning big (playing at higher odds). In EU this really doesn't appear to be the case, at least not most of the time. The fact that your odds depend on so many unknowns makes this harder to judge.

The thing that really gets me is that you're playing against a constantly moving target. It's like MA have all the cards, and if they want, they can add a few more aces to their hand at any time.

To me, the gambling element is an almost inevitable consequence of adding an RCE to a more traditional MMORPG model. It does work well, but it does kinda leave you not knowing where you stand. Could anyone look me in the eye, and tell me that they didn't have some other expectation of how the loot system worked back when they started out? It doesn't make a lot of sense, really, does it?

Maybe it's just me!