Achievement: EPIC FAILing an ML-35 TIER UPGRADE

Shadowsong

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You are right, the risks are warned clearly. The problem is that many (most) people have trouble accurately understanding a 5% chance of losing the item. In most of our lives, we discount a 5% risk as acceptable. If the weather report says 5% chance of rain, nobody brings their umbrella. There is a 5% chance that each political poll you see is off by more than the stated +/-, but we still trust those polls.

The point many are making is that this is a bad sytem for the game. HoFs are good for the game--mostly they make a few people very happy and make others hope for something good in the future. These anti-HoFs do just the opposite, they make a few people very unhappy, while making others fear what might happen if they participate in the tiering system.

You say "fear" like it's a bad thing. ;)

Fear is often a valuable inhibitor of poor judgement.
 

Coop_

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You say "fear" like it's a bad thing. ;)

Fear is often a valuable inhibitor of poor judgement.

As an inhibitor of risky individual behavior, yes fear can be valuable. But as a community "mood" in an RCE environment (or national economy even) fear can have disasterous consequences.
 

Huskie

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I still don't understand one thing, though: Why not sell both ML-35 and buy an even better gun for 24k?

Unless one of them was borrowed, in which case this is even more epic.
 

aridash

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:) msg 2short

thats not an explaination, thats just accepting and repeating the party line. why is a drain necessary now, we have got here with out it. remember UL are normally less economical for most too, so isnt that the drain? or do we simply accept all balancing problems come from old drops of UL that have ceased, until SGA, and why wasnt the drain in place before that? :scratch: Why then have a drain that is so poor risk/return that very few will actually use it? if they want to balance the eco/ability of teired items, increase the decay and even reduce other stats (increase range, decrease accuracy etc)? it seems a very blunt tool for a questionable intent to me.

Because the future of EU is (L)

well that would seem so, but then why drop UL SIB, UL SGA and suggest that lost items will be re-dropped?
 

Tomkat

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hahahahaha, can not stop laugh at the video, some of the funniest I seen, LOL,.

"OMG" "I failed" lol


stupid thing to upgrade allready that high end an item, maybe wait and we will start seing ml35 drop regularly because people try to upgrade them and items will drop till all guns are tier 10.0 kinda,.

a ml35 SGA dropped after you lost your gun from hogglo, not evidence on there is some kind of connection, but maybe you could try tier up again and lose another to see if another would drop?


But thx for sharing, unlucky you were.
May you get lucky soon.

Tomkat :)
 

Naverith

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We're all missing a very important point here:

Yes, this person did a stupid thing, but hey. Which of us haven't done something almost as stupid (or worse) in our lives?

The thing to remember is this:

UPGRADES LAST A SHORT TIME!

Then they break and you have to do them all over again!


Now, doing something stupid once can be forgiven/explained/excused, but doing the exact same thing over again is a sign of insanity.

Like I've had to say (too many times):

stupid is it's own reward.

MA makes it millions yearly off of "stupid".

But, then again, that's why we're all in the game, right??

and this ain't a casino, but...

I'M GONNA HIT THE BIG ONE SOON!
 

Jorael

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It's not as if one can do this by accident... have a look at the confirmation screen the OP clicks past right at the start of the video - the one that warns you that you could lose the second item. It's there for a reason.

This is like people who build houses below the floodline, then complain that the "government should do something" when their houses are washed away. If you ignore the warning, it is entirely your own fault.

That has nothing to do with the tier system. This is a game and MA needs the players to be happy spending peds. Of course that someone would be mad enough to try, and fail. MA knows it, and that's why they installed it.

It's like putting a vintage bottle of wine in front of a bunch of recovering alcoholics, with a "don't touch" sign in front of it. You know someone is gonna fall for it, and pay a heavy price.

They should also put in a system that prevents players from killing "no loot" mobs.

I fail to see the point of "no loot" mobs, other then making me and everyone else mad. Maybe you like "no loots", but i sure don't.

As for the secondary item... Marco has already indicated that an "upgrade replicator" will become available. Don't blame MA for a player being too impatient to wait for (a) better skill levels, and (b) an upgrade replicator.

I said the player is to blame, as well as MA/FPC.

Perfect design for a system aimed at the middle to lower end of the market, where the risk will not outweigh the benefit as badly.
Right. But we all know that everyone want's bigger and better guns and the ability to upgrade them at a cost, but not with a crazy gamble such as it is atm.

It's not a bug, it's a feature.
If you say so... Then again, all bugs are features. Just bad, annoying ones.

If you're mad enough to try, the system doesn't have to be rigged for you to lose, your madness will guarantee it.

No, the system should be made to reward you if you are bold enough to try. I for one was happy that Stryker looted Mod Merc SGA, since he was mad enough to hunt those mobs like a maniac, and was rewarded for doing so.

As you so aptly put it - "we're talking about real cash here". One would think that would make for a more cautious approach.
Indeed. I wouldn't risk it for sure. But the idea of upgrading items is quite good, and i would like to see it polished in the right way. Rewards for the hard working and bold players, not a slap in the face.

I'm sorry, but I really cannot fault MA/FPC for this.... the system has PERFORMED EXACTLY AS DESCRIBED, WITH CLEAR WARNING ABOUT THE RISK.
Well, i think it's perverse from them to implement a system like this when they know some player(s) will fall for it. It's a trap!

They have not compelled anyone to take that risk, at any level. That was purely player decision.

Yes they did... ;) By introducing the tier system like it is right now. Its a subversive and cunning move, and that just shows that all they want is take your money. *Bang Bang*
 

Oleg

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The thing to remember is this:

UPGRADES LAST A SHORT TIME!

Then they break and you have to do them all over again!

That's not how it works. Upgrades on unlimited weapons are permanent. Only the enhancers themselves are temporary.
 

cduser

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well this stuff brought a new feeling to EU i guess... like the feeling when you get a big fat uber tower... just the opposite...
 

cduser

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btw, i dont think FPC intended to make it possible to loose the secondary item.. i am pretty sure that MA has had some requirements (A chance to loose) or else they would not let FPC implement the tier system on planet calypso. dont blame FPC, blame MA lol
 

Huskie

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btw, i dont think FPC intended to make it possible to loose the secondary item.. i am pretty sure that MA has had some requirements (A chance to loose) or else they would not let FPC implement the tier system on planet calypso. dont blame FPC, blame MA lol

They're the bloody same thing, even share the same office, except FPC is the way MA devised to communicate a little with the community and excuse itself of any fuck-ups, so that whenever one happens and people light their torches and sharpen their pitchforks for Marco's ass, he can blame MA, which we never hear a word from, anyway.
 

steffel

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just subscribing to this very thread.

first, nomen aint always omen. seeing luckycharm's investment looks like she can take the loss. also, this aint a whining but a warning thread to prevent others from losing items which they may not be able to afford losing. still i fear this won't be the last thread about losing a high priced item to tiering.

second, the intention of second item loss risk was according to the statement of FPC shortly after tier introduction to a) eliminate some of the UL items, so dont expect to loot them back b) based on that enforce the usage of more (L) to keep the economy alive.

third, MA aint greedy for "taking" a 12k ped gunfrom a player. MA even paid back the tt of the gun in residue. keep in mind, markup is made by players, MA handles tt values. also, EU as a virtual economy is turning over items into other items (ammo > animal oils, bombs > ores, ores > tools, 2nd items > residue) so there is nothing wrong imo.

fourth, chance of success and salvage: maybe we will see professional tier upgraders soon but still there is a big big problem with trust. the upgrader surely won't take the risk of the 2nd item loss. so he won't provide any collateral for the 2nd item = possible scam. and, upgrader cannot prove if a 2nd item was infact lost or not. he could just pretend a loss and return some residue to the original owner but there is no way to know. now MA needs to install some kind of remote control or make upgrading similar to the beautician process, where customer grants control but not ownership.
 

Alice

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fourth, chance of success and salvage: maybe we will see professional tier upgraders soon but still there is a big big problem with trust. the upgrader surely won't take the risk of the 2nd item loss. so he won't provide any collateral for the 2nd item = possible scam. and, upgrader cannot prove if a 2nd item was infact lost or not. he could just pretend a loss and return some residue to the original owner but there is no way to know. now MA needs to install some kind of remote control or make upgrading similar to the beautician process, where customer grants control but not ownership.
maybe thats actually good :D

could lead to a lending system
 

Huskie

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fourth, chance of success and salvage: maybe we will see professional tier upgraders soon but still there is a big big problem with trust. the upgrader surely won't take the risk of the 2nd item loss. so he won't provide any collateral for the 2nd item = possible scam. and, upgrader cannot prove if a 2nd item was infact lost or not. he could just pretend a loss and return some residue to the original owner but there is no way to know. now MA needs to install some kind of remote control or make upgrading similar to the beautician process, where customer grants control but not ownership.

Actually, the item to be upgraded can't be lost, only the one used as igredient, so the customer would at least get his ready-to-tier old item back, the lost item would have to come from the service providing avatar.
 

Witte

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When the second item loss rate is ~5% on average, it would mean that a professional item upgrader can do upgrades at 5% of MU + materials + profit.
 

florin

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sooo lucky...charm :D
well at least in sga they droped ... what?...3 more ml 35 sga version?....and soon al kinds of nutscases will diminish total ingame number to 1 :D
 

ChadGareau

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I would be writing MA support about this ... stealing items now???????? I don't care what they call it, it is stealing items from players!!!

:mad: what else is MA going to do to screw players out of money???? :mad: They Should Be Ashamed!!
 

kyleen

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Thats a really expensive click...
 

Lykke

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bah! Sorry to hear this, Lucky :(
People might say that it's your own fault for clicking on low condition, which it might be. But this should not have been a possibility from the beginning. It's a really really stupid feature. Now, I perfectly understand if you loose some when the sucess % is so low .. but the other item?? Meh ... so stupid!
 

Centech

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I wonder where the 2nd ml35 came from. I see lucky is selling the tier 1.9 one.. I would have thought that would have gone to whoever the lost one was borrowed from. Did you buy a 2nd ml35 to attempt the upgrade?
 

c2carbone

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sorry to hear this bathtub

hope you get an ATH for compensation when you try to tier your dung shitting two-piped pet (when it's back in 2058)
 

Mikass

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I wonder where the 2nd ml35 came from. I see lucky is selling the tier 1.9 one.. I would have thought that would have gone to whoever the lost one was borrowed from. Did you buy a 2nd ml35 to attempt the upgrade?

Why should you think that? Shouldn`t Tier 1.9 ML35 fetch higher price than a normal one? Could be that Lucky will just buy a normal ML35 and give that back or ped if the person wants ped assuming was indeed borrowed and not owned. I know she had a renting thread full of all sorts of items. Woudn`t be surprised if she bought second gun.
 
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