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Final Theory Thread

Legion said:
more or less exactly how i think it works, but the actuall loot part i dont agree with. Every area and mobtype has it's own sinuscurve aswell, and then there is the timer.
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Yea i am working on the last sheet with the fort troy institut. In fact, it seems its far more complicated than that. For exemple they work on the possibility that player average loot is "preloaded" when he log in...
 
The Nightbird said:
J. Mandrake, how do you know when a global is due to personal losses or not? I work on the basis that so called good periods when lots of people global are just times when MA allow people to recover their losses. Also, you don't know when to drop the bomb anyways from the messages alone. There is lag between dropping the bomb and the mining result, and lag between the server sending out the result and people receiving it. The only time you can be certain of is the time when you click drop, because you can't even predict when EU's server receives your request to drop.
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I can proove that click is important and u really dont need to bother with lag. You will get what u "deserve" at the moment.

I was bombing CND lately and drop bomb, get some lag,then probe again get some lag+freeze, then my ava run few meters more. Then i get critical from mob and die, and when blue skull apear i received loot window with two consecutive globals (i was dead already and yelow swirles surround my dead body) Thats proove the server remebers time action were taken even if your connection or computer can't follow ii in real time.

I hope that help u guys
 
That doesn't prove it :p maybe their server received the information alright and the reply back got stuck in the system so they have to resend it several times and thus you experienced lag but they didn't... but it doesn't really matter :)
 
I think what Shoti was trying to say, in a nutshell, was.. Lag doesn't matter. And it doesn't. If it did, then people with poor connections would conclusively have worse results than someone with a giant pipe sticking out the side of their house capable of supplying a small country with <1ms latency bandwidth.
I've had numerous results where lag was involved... one global in particular where I lagged out, logged back in and had the deed in my inventory but missed the swirly due to lagging out.
 
Profit said:
I think what Shoti was trying to say, in a nutshell, was.. Lag doesn't matter. And it doesn't. If it did, then people with poor connections would conclusively have worse results than someone with a giant pipe sticking out the side of their house capable of supplying a small country with <1ms latency bandwidth.
I've had numerous results where lag was involved... one global in particular where I lagged out, logged back in and had the deed in my inventory but missed the swirly due to lagging out.
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You both misunderstand what I said. He said that lag didn't matter, only the click does in generating loot. I said back it does matter, since it takes time for that click to arrive at MA's server from your computer, and as this theory is time-based, you'd want to know when MA's server processes your requests. But since you can't accurately compensate for the lag, it is sufficient to control your click time and ignore the effects of lag.

I never said lag = bad loots, and would delete the past few posts for being pointless :p For people wondering wth #32 to 36 are, just ignore.
 
whats the point in finding the right time to click if u say that loot avarages 90% of player tt input? according to what was mentioned in the first post it will be 90% anyways, so if u drop in sync and hit everytime u will simply lower tt return per hit to still meet that 90% threshold, if u drop outta sync, and hit lets say every 10th time ull get more tt a hit just to average return to that magic 90% u stipulate.
so whats the point in dropping in or outta sync if u should get same results in the end? hey folks u contradict urselves.
all the time i c legion and nightbird trying to prove something and still go in circles as if they wr blind. its not even fun to watch it but somehow i still roll on the floor laughing, and even more so when every now and then i c legion claiming he cracked it. come on folks thats enuff thats futile. how much more cyber paper r u gonna waste on that? :D
 
Yeh, I'm sure some people would dissagree with you actually. Not saying I am however, there are people who make bank playing this game. I will not name names but I'm sure we all know who I am referring too. I think MA rewards those players who have spent half of their life earning on this game. Two players in particular would be joe jeff and ND. These are people who saw the value of a virtual universe for what it was. They invested HEAVILY and now are reaping the rewards. 90% return may be true for most players but certainly not all of them.
 
im not referring to what i think is true or not im just referring to what they write in this thread. they contradict themselves.
 
Tricity said:
im not referring to what i think is true or not im just referring to what they write in this thread. they contradict themselves.
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Nope 90% will be if u dont do any "timing adjustments" just play normal as always :)
 
nope it says 90% in the long run and that following it may decrease the number of 0 loots.
but anyways, i agree with some of nightbirs observations as i experience similar things BUT the thing.. the fact is YOU CANNNOT WIN AGAINST THE HOUSE so the whole discussion is pointles. If u win big 1 day MA will collect their money the other. Only chance to win is to hit ATH (on condition that u dont lose more than it is worth, and MA is careful with who ATHs go to, see addict names on the list), hunt other players (got to be on top of the food chain in here cos even if u kill a nub miner or 2 there will always be star, skalman or others of their kind to hunt u), loot uber items with nice markup (which again i think is based either on how long u been playing - nubs dont tend to loot UL x5s or overall xp points, or personal MA preference/value of ur depos, with maybe coupla exceptions to make it not so obvious). so basically what im implying here is that if u r not 1 of the selected few (and im not saying they hand pick them, i rather think this is based on how much money u put into this game, how much u can recycle, time spent etc.) u r fukt no matter what u do, be it tempometer, standing on one leg while playing, crafting at 30 degree angle facing west, reading skills or swapping the buttons on ur mouse. maybe, just maybe u can help urself stay afloat on the peds u got a little while longer by careful selection of what where and with what equipment u do. maybe, just maybe markup on ur loot can save ur ass for a lil while longer before they come after ur money. but they will come after it whether it is markup based or not and remember that even if u find ur nice mob, gun, spot, bp soon other players will be after it as well meaning the prices on what u get will go down and prices on what u buy will go up. end of story.
 
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The Nightbird said:
...How EU Generates Claims:...
As noted above, this doesn't increase your % tt return rate, but it does let A good way to visualize how I think loot is generated is the line displayed by a heart beat monitor. Every period of time, it pulses, and the line takes a distinct shape, and is flat for the rest of the time. To put that into loot terms, whenever you ask the server for loot, it checks the current height of the heart beat line, and if it is not 0, loot is generated (using another means).
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This is what i've been thinking. And in this vein I am really wondering how much different is the loot dynamicism from this -

"Whenever the slot machine is turned on, the random number generator is spitting out whole numbers (typically between 1 and several billion) hundreds of times a second. The instant you pull the arm back (or press the button), the computer records the next few numbers from the random number generator. Then it feeds these numbers through a simple program to determine where the reels should stop."
 
A slot machine doesn't keep track of your long term losses :)

So far most questions were answered in the first post: example: What's the point of getting more claims if you still get 90% in the long run anyways? Answer: if you want to reduce the wild swings in % tt returns on each mining trip.
 
The Nightbird said:
You both misunderstand what I said. He said that lag didn't matter, only the click does in generating loot. I said back it does matter, since it takes time for that click to arrive at MA's server from your computer...
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Do you know what a net-code (rates) is and it's purpose? Client/server sync attempting to correct variations in latency. It's generally accurate to within 10ms (and with developments over the last 5 years in coding practice, probably far less).
This isn't 1995 lol.

Unless your human reactions are faster than a computer can process calculations (which I guarantee you can't), you can't counter-act latency better than code.
You could click and MA recieve that click 10years later, however the code would calculate based on your client and the servers variation on time where/when the original click occurred and adjust accordingly.

If you have ever written script for FPS shooters you will know exactly what I'm talking about. cl_cmdrate anyone?
 
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Profit said:
Do you know what a net-code (rates) is and it's purpose? Client/server sync attempting to correct variations in latency. It's generally accurate to within 10ms (and with developments over the last 5 years in coding practice, probably far less).
This isn't 1995 lol.

Unless your human reactions are faster than a computer can process calculations (which I guarantee you can't), you can't counter-act latency better than code.
You could click and MA recieve that click 10years later, however the code would calculate based on your client and the servers variation on time where/when the original click occurred and adjust accordingly.

If you have ever written script for FPS shooters you will know exactly what I'm talking about. cl_cmdrate anyone?
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If you play fps multiplayer then you know how bad hit boxes in fps games still are :D It doesn't help when the server is so far away and the ping is 150+ms

Moreover, why would MA use prediction algorithms on loot? That makes no sense.
 
what ingame knowlage do u have to make a theory? seams that every one that drops 50 bombs makes a theory on EF...
 
subscribing, will share my theory later on
 
I do think there is sort of a personal loot pool, but it only keeps track of how much you spend so you dont overspend, and if you do it will repay you after a while.
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I've been proving that theory wrong for the last 6 mths. :(
 
Because the click is the action, correct? So that is the single most important part of the interaction between your client and the server when considering latency. Much like the latency coding that calculates when you (the client) clicked "shoot" and when the server recieves that request for action/response in an FPS game... in this case it would be a request for response relative to the action you perform in-game.
 
Point taken, but still doesn't change anything right?
 
Interesting about 90% TT return, i have done 100 runs both enmats and ores ~ 13k bombs and 13k probes written down everything from hitrate, TT-return and Markup. When i have done 300 runs in both ill post my TT return, it will not be 90% thats for sure :p
 
Dblood1 said:
Interesting about 90% TT return, i have done 100 runs both enmats and ores ~ 13k bombs and 13k probes written down everything from hitrate, TT-return and Markup. When i have done 300 runs in both ill post my TT return, it will not be 90% thats for sure :p
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of course it wont be, and nightbird - ok ull reduce the swings but it wont change anything in the long run, thats why i find it funny when i read legion who every now and then says he cracked the system. cracked or not u cant win with them in the long run, it was designed like that. all u can do is minimise losses and hope at one point ull become uber and maybe loot one of those 50-100k items or hit ATH (which wouldnt change much for me as i think id keep mine lol).
 
Tricity said:
of course it wont be, and nightbird - ok ull reduce the swings but it wont change anything in the long run, thats why i find it funny when i read legion who every now and then says he cracked the system. cracked or not u cant win with them in the long run, it was designed like that. all u can do is minimise losses and hope at one point ull become uber and maybe loot one of those 50-100k items or hit ATH (which wouldnt change much for me as i think id keep mine lol).
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That's a matter of personal preference then: whether you want to keep losses at a minimum, or go wild and hit a big one that recoups your losses. This thread is about a testable mining claim generation theory, I'm not trying to tell you how to behave in game lol ^^

Dblood1 said:
Interesting about 90% TT return, i have done 100 runs both enmats and ores ~ 13k bombs and 13k probes written down everything from hitrate, TT-return and Markup. When i have done 300 runs in both ill post my TT return, it will not be 90% thats for sure :p
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Remember to keep track of finder decay and extractor decay, as I include those in total tt spent in mining. Good luck!
 
The Nightbird said:
That's a matter of personal preference then: whether you want to keep losses at a minimum, or go wild and hit a big one that recoups your losses. This thread is about a testable mining claim generation theory, I'm not trying to tell you how to behave in game lol ^^



Remember to keep track of finder decay and extractor decay, as I include those in total tt spent in mining. Good luck!
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nightbird, im not asking u to tell me how to behave in game, i know it myself and dont even try to imply u found this golden way to profit cos ill kil u with my laughter. and as for ur reply to dblood1 i think what he meant was that he wont even get that 90% so i dont know why u want him to add equipment decay as well? to make it look even worse? and no by no means the return rate is 90%, most players say 70-80% on average. do u read that forum at all nightbird? do u really play that much or r u some sort of advertiser or brainwashing manipulator for MA? cos i am really getting an impression that at least several posters on this forum work for MA pretending to be some real players and that some of the ubers actually r MA staff meant to advertise all those expensive items and spread that impression that u can be successful in this game.
 
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Tricity said:
nightbird, im not asking u to tell me how to behave in game, i know it myself and dont even try to imply u found this golden way to profit cos ill kil u with my laughter. and as for ur reply to dblood1 i think what he meant was that he wont even get that 90% so i dont know why u want him to add equipment decay as well? to make it look even worse? and no by no means the return rate is 90%, most players say 70-80% on average. do u read that forum at all nightbird? do u really play that much or r u some sort of advertiser or brainwashing manipulator for MA? cos i am really getting an impression that at least several posters on this forum work for MA pretending to be some real players and that some of the ubers actually r MA staff meant to advertise all those expensive items and spread that impression that u can be successful in this game.
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LMAO. Well, your earlier post was right -> my theory does state that over the long term, there is no difference in % tt returns. If this theory is applied, you get better returns over individual mining runs but in exchange you give up the ubers. In the first post, I clearly state that this isn't some golden profit method, more for a curiosity for those who like to ponder how EU works.

As for the rest of your post, ummm, well, it's not well thought out to put it lightly.
 
I guess this is the right moment to bring to your attention the fact that based on the coupling constant value, any final theory can be divided into at least 5 special subtheories if not more.. :D
 
Rony said:
I guess this is the right moment to bring to your attention the fact that based on the coupling constant value, any final theory can be divided into at least 5 special subtheories if not more.. :D
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Hahaha, false in this case though :D I've dumbed this down as far as I could to make sure of that!
 
ok, u r right, my apologies, maybe it wasnt. just my frustration is growing and i vented it off at the wrong person. but i still do think that some of the highlights here and in game are actually fakes.
 
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