Question: How do I prove there is or is not a personal loot/expenses pool/tracker?

No, EU - isn't poker. In EU you playing against machine, that machine is feed by... players who can't understand that big money there will do nothing.
I've always thought of the hunting/mining/crafting professions as slot machines and trading, beauty, coloring and other professions like it as sort of closer to poker... pve vs pvp so to speak.

As far as the tracking goes, they don't even track in logins after a certain amount of time, so it's very, very unlikely that they track personal lootpool, and the dev note more or less proves that.

Hi,
Thank you for your inquiry and please accept my apologies for the delay in my reply. I would like to thank you also for your link, but, unfortunately we have not bee able to confirm in our logs that the accont has been shared in previous years as the oldest logon logs from our participants are from 2008. However, please rest assured that appropriate action will be taken.

We are committed to make Entropia Universe an enjoyable experience for all and we thank you for helping us reach that goal.
Kind regards,
Tezla | Planet Calypso Support

If there is a 'personal loot pool' don't you think it'd have to track deposits and gains/losses back further than 2008? That support ticket was from last year or the year before... so they must wipe out the login tracking database every so often. Since they do that, there's no way in heck there is any way to track personal loot pool. Honestly, I think if such a system existed we'd have WAY more lag since there'd be a lot more numbers getting crunched in the background.
 
Last edited:
I'm not a good poker player. But I used to play MTTs, midstakes NL HL, some PLO, and many other games against OTHER players.

Yes, there is only one hand at a time.

No, EU - isn't poker. In EU you playing against machine, that machine is feed by... players who can't understand that big money there will do nothing.

Here is what I was thinking way back in 2008.

In the past I thought PE was like a slot machine. Looting each mob was like pulling the arm on slot.

But the more I played PE I thought more and more about a poker metaphor. With the game being basically a redistribution of wealth with the casino taking a rake for their trouble. In PE, decay equals the rake.

<snip>

Maybe PE is like a giant blackjack game with each individual playing against the house. Perhaps the loot pool (pot in a poker game) doesn't exist. Perhaps our deposits go into the house's account and MA sets up the game so we win a bit but over time we lose more than we win.

Maybe I should be worrying less about 'playing tight' and worrying more about whether the server is hot.
 
As far as the tracking goes, they don't even track in logins after a certain amount of time, so it's very, very unlikely that they track personal lootpool, and the dev note more or less proves that.
Of course they track logons.
As it happens, we had a system overhaul in 2008 (cryengine), that being the reason they didn't have earlier logs from logons.
 
This sums up the uselessness of this thread...

I think there is some merit in the idea behind the thread, just with the focus changed away from trying to prove MA's statement incorrect to trying to understand how it fits with experimental observation. If the aim is more to understand loot mechanisms better through experiment that is meritworthy. The notes don't tell us how the system works, they just give us a clue.
 
Of course they track logons.
As it happens, we had a system overhaul in 2008 (cryengine), that being the reason they didn't have earlier logs from logons.
changing to cryengine shouldn't have caused loss in database logs if they are tracking things historically such as this so called 'personal loot pool'... There's a lot of folks that put in a lot of peds prior to 2008. If they are tracking things to get them to a 'break even' point, they would still be tracking this sort of stuff since the beginning.
 
Of course they track logons.
As it happens, we had a system overhaul in 2008 (cryengine), that being the reason they didn't have earlier logs from logons.
Not having logs, because something was remade in the system?
There's no connection whatsoever... you can write your logs to DVD's and close them in the safe.
After that you can go and burn down every last server in Sweden and you still have all your logs.

No... Either the old logs were not considered important enough or they were accidentally blown up by some idiot... or both... shit happens, all the time! (not joking)
 
I'd actually like to know what causes MISS messages as well... because MISSes mess with efficiency something chronic. If it's network lag, server sync issues, or if it's really just a random chance that I miss 7 times in a row when there's only supposed to be a 9% chance I miss etc...

Random events appear to us to tend occur in clusters. They don't really, but one of the best things our brain does is see patterns, and when you look close-up at random data, your brain can't help but see patterns. To see what 10% random misses looks like:

Make an excel file, in cell A1, put

=RANDBETWEEN(0,10)

and in cell B1, put

=IF(A1=5,"Miss","Hit")

Now, copy those down about 10k cells. Scroll through it and the results will look strikingly like your chat log. You will probably find stretches of 3-4 misses, and long stretches of pure hits. It will look like the misses cluster. 7 in a row is pretty rare (the most I've personally seen is 5 or 6, I think), but given the number of shots made in EU every day, there will be a number of people seeing 7 misses in a row every day.
 
I've always thought of the hunting/mining/crafting professions as slot machines and trading, beauty, coloring and other professions like it as sort of closer to poker... pve vs pvp so to speak.

As far as the tracking goes, they don't even track in logins after a certain amount of time, so it's very, very unlikely that they track personal lootpool, and the dev note more or less proves that.



If there is a 'personal loot pool' don't you think it'd have to track deposits and gains/losses back further than 2008? That support ticket was from last year or the year before... so they must wipe out the login tracking database every so often. Since they do that, there's no way in heck there is any way to track personal loot pool. Honestly, I think if such a system existed we'd have WAY more lag since there'd be a lot more numbers getting crunched in the background.

Okay, here is my "vision".

1. They must have logs for many ava actions. For judging several issues which can arise, and such stuff. Of course, those logs doesn't stored forever. Maybe they have detailed logs for last month, who knows.
2. For sure, they have "counters". Can be easily proved. When I did arrive at RT, I started to get shitloads of achievements - like dropped 1000 bombs, crafted 100000 shits, killed 10 avas in pvp, and etc. So, there is 100% some TABLE with counters. Killed mobs for irons, etc.
3. My vision of "personal loot pool": there is no need to keep "detailed" info for each ava, it's simply enough to keep some "delta" - and when that "delta" is negative - you getting rewarded (compensated), when "positive" - you starting lose. In the end that "delta" must be 0. And yes, shooting in the air doesn't change that delta at all. "Overkill" expenses - maybe too.

How I see EU survival existence: we all, actually, "employees" of MA. Let's see:

1. I need to cycle peds. What is that means? I do some activity, have loot/crafted product, and I selling this with MU for my profit. From my side - it's necessary for my survival in EU. From MA side - I indirectly cause INFLUX of real cash in game, since by selling just something over TT amount, I just did create PEDs. Someone depoed that in the end.

2. I even make advertisement inside EU by my globalling and hoffing. Can you imagine? I paying decay for... free advertisement for MA. (smile.jpg)

3. System "ENTROPIA" designed very well. Before my max payback (ATH or huge hit), I must cycle enormous amount of PEDs, until I will receive my "salary" from MA - resulting in return VERY close to 100%. There is 90% statistics so popular, just because... most people simple doesn't survive until that payback. And then cycle begins again.

4. There is "protection" against people, who trying to "force" something with big money. As I said already - you can't jump over your head, and flood market with redulite, kanerium and crap like that. Actually, with nothing. All resources in game are finite. So, this is impossible to survive with lvl9-lvl13 amps, now they made rebalance, which rendered lvl7-lvl8 unusable too. You will simple spend MORE than you will get, you simple pay more MU than you get. Okay, this is just details - but there is for sure many "caps" like that one.

So, actually, to get something - you need not only "cycle" PEDs as some people here always telling - that means, you must NOT TT it, and sell it as high as possible with MU.

We all "working" for MA. Someone hard, someone not. It's not gambling.

Sorry for this wall of text.

PS: and I just forgot most important:

MA isn't interested to RIPOFF someone, at all! They interested in many players who will play effective, as long as possible.
 
Last edited:
2. For sure, they have "counters". Can be easily proved. When I did arrive at RT, I started to get shitloads of achievements - like dropped 1000 bombs, crafted 100000 shits, killed 10 avas in pvp, and etc. So, there is 100% some TABLE with counters. Killed mobs for irons, etc.

The most striking achievement I got was "Running Man -- You have run ten kilometers. Keep on running!" They keep track of how far I've run?? Does running affect loot? If I run for 10km between mobs, will I get better loot?That was went through my head when I saw it.
 
And no MA's statements do not contradict 90% tt return, since they did not define what "personal loot pool" means

this. seems obvious to me that if the system is designed to return a certain amount, any individual's return will trend towards that amount. the player base have found this to be ~90%. but, just like any other similar systems, you can be way below that trend line or above it.
 
In EU you playing against machine

That's where we disagree really.

What everyone else is doing affects your own loot imho. If everyone in EU starts using 1.5dpp weapons, and I carry on using 2.8dpp weapons, I expect my returns will be great. I'm happy to give it a go if you all are.
 
...

What everyone else is doing affects your own loot imho. If everyone in EU starts using 1.5dpp weapons, and I carry on using 2.8dpp weapons, I expect my returns will be great. I'm happy to give it a go if you all are.

Agreed .. as long as I can keep using my 2.8dpp gear too! :)
 
No personal loot pool can make sense...
If they say all avatars are the same.

Over time that would mean everyone has about 90~% tt return, sligtly more, sligtly less depending on how "effiecient" and "eco" you play (tt wise i mean)
 
I don't have 10k turnover log to prove it (still wish somone did it), but for some period of time shot with M2100+eamp15 which means 0.55 dmg/pec eco. ~90%tt return. Some others confirmed it. Imho if dmg/pec matters at all its a small impact that it has these days.
This would be the best prove for those who think dmg/pec can be applied mathematically (I used to think that too). If that were true, the person shooting with this combo should be getting 90%/(2.7/0.55)=~18.4% tt return. I'm quite convinced that won't happen.
If everyone in EU starts using 1.5dpp weapons, and I carry on using 2.8dpp weapons, I expect my returns will be great. I'm happy to give it a go if you all are.
 
That's where we disagree really.

What everyone else is doing affects your own loot imho. If everyone in EU starts using 1.5dpp weapons, and I carry on using 2.8dpp weapons, I expect my returns will be great. I'm happy to give it a go if you all are.

1. I am not a hunter. Let me climb out from my mining suckotage, then I will buy gun and start hunt small shit for irons etc, and we will talk about hunt.
2. If everyone stops ofc there will be no game at all. I think, there is no need to discuss marginal situations?
3. What everyone else is doing affects on KIND of your loot. The TT returns - is purely your own cycle.

And that own cycle I calling as "personal lootpool".
 
I particiapted in few LA events... main objective was to finish some missions.....I did manage to get 1 or no globals.... but to test it I kept hunting after the event.... and got globals within 10 mins..It happened to me 3 times.

whatever you guys may think of it

I think loot is geard towards the higher dps, ofc they also have the better dpp. So, IMHO, hunting during events with lower dps and dpp is sort of stupidity! Now that we know there is no personal loot pool It make more sense to me.

Anyway, after those 3 incident I stopped particiapating in LA events.....

LOL LA owner might come after me.... but who cares... I just speak my mind!!!
 
1. Wow 3 times! That proves it's no deviation, statistics rule.
2. Yea i have noted a relation between people arriving / leaving from the area I hunt in and globals starting/stopping because of that. Mind you, not 3 miserable times. In that sense, your observation is a match with mine, only you limit it to an event while I don't.
3. Actually, lower dpp will help you win HSL loots because of the 90% tt that has to be evened out eventually.
I particiapted in few LA events... main objective was to finish some missions.....I did manage to get 1 or no globals.... but to test it I kept hunting after the event.... and got globals within 10 mins..It happened to me 3 times.
IMHO, hunting during events with lower dps and dpp is sort of stupidity! Now that we know there is no personal loot pool It make more sense to me.
 
Where are the suggestions guys?
 
You're ignoring what I said, looking for a scientific proof god has a plan for each of us. 90% tt return is statistically proven and you know it. The rest, you can't prove unless you talk with the god (ditto).
P.S.
I know this won't help, guys who think they can prove theological theories usually do it till the end.
Where are the suggestions guys?
 
Though can help you with this one
doing dumb things in an inefficient way is either penalized or rewarded while playing Entropia Universe
1. Shoot 10k in air, shoot another 10k in mob, see if your total return is 90% or 45%. If you get 45%, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
2. Shoot 10k with a maxed gun 2.7 dmg/pec, shoot 10k with a maxed gun 0.55 dmg/pec. Compare tt return. If both around 90%, you have confirmed what statistics already has show. If so, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
3. Shoot 10k with an unmaxed gun (like noob wil UL gun), shoot 10k with a maxed gun. If the return % is significantly difficult, you have confirmed what statistics already has shown. If so, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
P.S. Repeat more times (4-5) if you get a big hof, to be sure.
 
P.S. Repeat more times (4-5) if you get a big hof, to be sure.

If, while those tests ATH will be triggered - chipout, withdraw and RUN.
 
Though can help you with this one

1. Shoot 10k in air, shoot another 10k in mob, see if your total return is 90% or 45%. If you get 45%, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
2. Shoot 10k with a maxed gun 2.7 dmg/pec, shoot 10k with a maxed gun 0.55 dmg/pec. Compare tt return. If both around 90%, you have confirmed what statistics already has show. If so, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
3. Shoot 10k with an unmaxed gun (like noob wil UL gun), shoot 10k with a maxed gun. If the return % is significantly difficult, you have confirmed what statistics already has shown. If so, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
P.S. Repeat more times (4-5) if you get a big hof, to be sure.

That would work, now just to find people to do it ;)

Rgds

Ace
 
Though can help you with this one

1. Shoot 10k in air, shoot another 10k in mob, see if your total return is 90% or 45%. If you get 45%, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
2. Shoot 10k with a maxed gun 2.7 dmg/pec, shoot 10k with a maxed gun 0.55 dmg/pec. Compare tt return. If both around 90%, you have confirmed what statistics already has show. If so, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
3. Shoot 10k with an unmaxed gun (like noob wil UL gun), shoot 10k with a maxed gun. If the return % is significantly difficult, you have confirmed what statistics already has shown. If so, conclude you're an idiot for doing a test.
P.S. Repeat more times (4-5) if you get a big hof, to be sure.

you are wrong at many levels....

@ mrproper.
if you really want to do the test (which i think you shouldn't) it should simulate the natural normal hunting mode...doing stupid stuff, the way others have suggested, would not help to come to a valid conclusion, and would be a waste of peds.

As i've suggested ...the most efficient way of doing it would be...

Pairing yourself with someone who got an uber uber hof... and hunt wiht him side by side similar mobs...you should try to create similar setup, environment. You may want to pair up someone with uber hof from mobs you wanan finish mission........and keep data for about few wks....

If their is a personal loot pool the curves should vary....

You've to do this with at least ~13 person... but the numbers needed might be much higher....

Again, the whole endeavor, I think would be an waste of peds and time..........I think you should drop the idea...
 
Lol you smell funny. Just as argument-ed since I don't give any proof and physically can't know :)
you are wrong at many levels....
I was giving advise on the quoted question: "doing dumb things in an inefficient way is either penalized or rewarded while playing Entropia Universe"
How the f... is pairing up with an avatar who just got a "uber uber hof" described by the quote above.
Infinity, you have outdone yourself. I will quote:
Albert said:
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
 
Last edited:
This would prove something... How?
Assume ATHs are random:
If you paired up with someone who had a lottery win IRL, would you expect to have different lottery results for yourself because of that?
Assume ATHs are given because of avatar luck:
His tt returns won't change.

After I hit my 20k on Scip, I saw no change whatsoever in the following period sense of tt return. It was 90%, as usual. In fact it never changed, the only increase is due to closing in to max my guns.
you are wrong at many levels....
Pairing yourself with someone who got an uber uber hof... and hunt wiht him side by side similar mobs...you should try to create similar setup, environment. You may want to pair up someone with uber hof from mobs you wanan finish mission........and keep data for about few wks....
 
Lol you smell funny. Just as argument-ed since I don't give any proof and physically can't know

BTW please try to place the quoted text above your text...

It's is better to follow the logic and make sense... and afaik, everybody is doing it that way!

Just read below, it's much easier to follow my reasoining after reading your post... giving the context of my text!

This would prove something... How?
Assume ATHs are random:
If you paired up with someone who had a lottery win IRL, would you expect to have different lottery results for yourself because of that?
Assume ATHs are given because of avatar luck:
His tt returns won't change.

After I hit my 20k on Scip, I saw no change whatsoever in the following period sense of tt return. It was 90%, as usual. In fact it never changed, the only increase is due to closing in to max my guns.

I"m saying that in the context of a personal loot pool... It is expected that after an uber uber hof his or her loot pool would be somewhat dry and will get less loot ... it'd fall well below 90%... compare to mrproper loot... which shouldn't see any significant deviation....

doing it with one person wont' help much has to be reapeated many times....

I'm not refuting your observation... infact your observation is in line with MA's statement...."no personal loot pool"

and if you say i'm infinitely stupid... then yes i'm stupid ... but only with your mind set emanating from your neurochemistry... happy now :) cheers
 
Last edited:
Clearly not everybody. But I will dumb it down for you (follow the logic). The guy was asking a question (among others) how you could prove if doing idiotic things are punished. And I gave valid tests. You, on the other hand, said I am wrong assuming I answered the other question. And gave invalid tests for what he asking.
Capisce?
It's is better to follow the logic and make sense... and afaik, everybody is doing it that way!
 
Back
Top