Skills and Health

MG Mighty · Mar 7, 2007

Doer said:
Are those changes in courage due to chipping, then? In other words, was that the only parameter changed?

Yes,
I didn't gain any skill (or lost) for no other reason besides chiping for a few days now.

Doer · Mar 7, 2007

MG Mighty said:
Yes,
I didn't gain any skill (or lost) for no other reason besides chiping for a few days now.

Ok very cool. I look forward to seeing the rest of your data and your results.

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

An example
This time I use the method to calculate somebody with lots of skills.

I found a nice person who shares his skills at:
http://nicole.faraci.us/skills/current/
I will upload the pictures if deemed necessary.

Name of the avatar:
Nicole Tony Dantrag

Due to the fact that I'm kind of lazy right now to upload screenshots
I promisse to upload the stuff before the end of March

Code:

1. (200) Commando -----------02481>  - 12,405250
2. (320) Courage ------------06797>  - 21,240625
3. (400) Coolness -----------04248>  - 10,620000
4. (533,3) Athletics --------05967>  - 11,188125
5. (533,3) Melee Combat -----03090>  -  5,793750
6. (800) Dexterity ----------04401>  -  5,501250
7. (800) Combat Sense -------04344>  -  5,430000
8. (1600) Perception --------03563>  -  2,226875
9. (1600) Serendipity -------04494>  -  2,808750
10. (1600) Combat Reflexes --05634>  -  3,521250
11. (1600) Handgun ----------10034>  -  6,271250
12. (1600) Rifle ------------06944>  -  4,340000
13. (1600) Weapons Handling -05888>  -  3,680000
14. (1600) Drilling ---------01498>  -  0,936250
15. (1600) Mining -----------00252>  -  0,157500
16. (1600) Prospecting ------00220>  -  0,137500
17. (1600) Surveying --------00257>  -  0,160625
18. (40) Agility ------------00095>  -  2,375000
19. (40) Intelligence -------00060>  -  1,500000
20. (40) Psyche -------------00030>  -  0,750000
21. (40) Strength -----------00054>  -  1,350000

Sub-total so far:
= 102,394

Start Health level for Avatar with 1 in All skills is somewhere between 88 and 89
Lets say 88,5
=> it creates a error margin on this particular item of 0,5 at the most.

Total "expect" Health level for Nicole = 102,4 + 88,5 = 190.9

HP shown in screenshot = 190

Conclusion:
So far the method works with very low error margin.
And the known HP modifiers explain over 98% of the health level.

Witte · Mar 8, 2007

why is the total health given by known skills just 8.25

isnt it more like a tenfold?

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

One more example

Again I have to thank Nicole Tony Dantrag for providing the screenshots

Taken from:
http://nicole.faraci.us/skills/12-25-2005/

Due to the fact that I'm kind of lazy right now to upload screenshots
I promisse to upload the stuff before the end of March

Code:

1. (200) Commando -----------00000>  -  0,000000
2. (320) Courage ------------05334>  - 16,668750
3. (400) Coolness -----------02105>  -  5,262500
4. (533,3) Athletics --------05896>  - 11,055000
5. (533,3) Melee Combat -----03054>  -  5,726250
6. (800) Dexterity ----------03529>  -  4,411250
7. (800) Combat Sense -------00000>  -  0,000000
8. (1600) Perception --------02932>  -  1,832500
9. (1600) Serendipity -------03285>  -  2,053125
10. (1600) Combat Reflexes --03829>  -  2,393125
11. (1600) Handgun ----------04526>  -  2,828750
12. (1600) Rifle ------------05665>  -  3,540625
13. (1600) Weapons Handling -04562>  -  2,851250
14. (1600) Drilling ---------00110>  -  0,068750
15. (1600) Mining -----------00173>  -  0,108125
16. (1600) Prospecting ------00125>  -  0,078125
17. (1600) Surveying --------00090>  -  0,056250
18. (40) Agility ------------00094>  -  2,350000
19. (40) Intelligence -------00060>  -  1,500000
20. (40) Psyche -------------00029>  -  0,725000
21. (40) Strength -----------00053>  -  1,325000

Sub-total so far:
= 64,834375

Start Health level for Avatar with 1 in All skills is somewhere between 88 and 89
Lets say 88,5
=> it creates a error margin on this particular item of 0,5 at the most.

So for those screenshots
Total "expect" Health level for Nicole = 64,8 + 88,5 = 153.3

HP shown in screenshot = 153

Conclusion:
So far the method works with very low error margin.
And the known HP modifiers explain over 98% of the health level.

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

Witte said:
why is the total health given by known skills just 8.25

isnt it more like a tenfold?

I was editing based on a previous copy paste so there was lots of junk arround

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

Just for curiosity
I calculated using this method how much HP would get an avatar with 120 in Atributes and 12000 in the skills.

He would end up with 378 HP

Code:

1. (200) Commando -----------12000>   - 60,000000
2. (320) Courage ------------12000>  -  37,50000
3. (400) Coolness -----------12000>  -  30,00000
4. (533,3) Athletics --------12000>  -  22,500000
5. (533,3) Melee Combat -----12000>  -  22,500000
6. (800) Dexterity ----------12000>  -  15,000000
7. (800) Combat Sense -------12000>  -  15,000000
8. (1600) Perception --------12000>   -  7,500000
9. (1600) Serendipity -------12000>   -  7,500000
10. (1600) Combat Reflexes --12000>   -  7,500000
11. (1600) Handgun ----------12000>   -  7,500000
12. (1600) Rifle ------------12000>   -  7,500000
13. (1600) Weapons Handling -12000>   -  7,500000
14. (1600) Drilling ---------12000>   -  7,500000
15. (1600) Mining -----------12000>   -  7,500000
16. (1600) Prospecting ------12000>   -  7,500000
17. (1600) Surveying --------12000>   -  7,500000
18. (40) Agility ------------00120>   -  3,000000
19. (40) Intelligence -------00120>   -  3,000000
20. (40) Psyche -------------00120>   -  3,000000
21. (40) Strength -----------00120>   -  3,000000

Sub-total
= 289,5

Start Health level for Avatar with 1 in All skills is somewhere between 88 and 89
Lets say 88,5
=> it creates a error margin on this particular item of 0,5 at the most.

Expected total = 289,5 + 88,5 = 378

Witte · Mar 8, 2007

As soon as I get my next HP I will do a check too. It seems your data is very accurate so well done

.

PS, any chance that mining unlocks give HP too?

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

Witte said:
As soon as I get my next HP I will do a check too. It seems your data is very accurate so well done .

Thank you.
HP gain triggers will be important in deciding what is the base start level of a newcommer with only 1 skills in general.

If the skills should be counted as full number or (Skill -1).

If not having the unlocked skills grants you negative health input on that skill.

So until those are answered I expect an error (lower than 0,5) in the health level.

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

Witte said:
PS, any chance that mining unlocks give HP too?

Yes.
Every unlocked skill that Nicole hasn't on those pictures has the "potencial" to be an HP modifier.

This includes the Mining unlocks.

I doubt that those skills which didn't gave HP skill check on the FAP method will be HP modifiers.

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

Another proud member of Shaolin was kind in providing me with a list of her skills.

Jade Demoniac Malkov

has allways been friendly, honest and helpfull whenever I needed so I have no reason to doubt her.

At 07/03/07 Health 198
[gotten just after chiping Drilling from 477 (and 197 Health) to 3122]

Code:

1. (200) Commando -----------02494>  - 12,470000
2. (320) Courage ------------05521>  - 17,253125
3. (400) Coolness -----------04398>  - 10,995000
4. (533,3) Athletics --------04884>  -  9,157500
5. (533,3) Melee Combat -----05971>  - 11,195625
6. (800) Dexterity ----------04962>  -  6,202500
7. (800) Combat Sense -------05264>  -  6,580000
8. (1600) Perception --------04448>  -  2,780000
9. (1600) Serendipity -------06126>  -  3,828750
10. (1600) Combat Reflexes --05632>  -  3,520000
11. (1600) Handgun ----------05420>  -  3,387500
12. (1600) Rifle ------------09833>  -  6,145625
13. (1600) Weapons Handling -06792>  -  4,245000
14. (1600) Drilling ---------03122>  -  1,951250
15. (1600) Mining -----------02075>  -  1,296875
16. (1600) Prospecting ------00907>  -  0,566875
17. (1600) Surveying --------00449>  -  0,280625
18. (40) Agility ------------00108>  -  2,700000
19. (40) Intelligence -------00061>  -  1,525000
20. (40) Psyche -------------00043>  -  1,075000
21. (40) Strength -----------00078>  -  1,950000

Sub-total
= 109,10625

Expected total = 109,11 + 88,5 = 197,61

Not bad for a preview, but not good enough for the kind of exact calculations that I'm aiming at.
(inside the error margin, I believe that newcommers start with 88,9 ; and this would result in 109,11 + 88,80 = 198.01)

I say that I'm not satisfied because of the data already given above
she was at
197 Health with Drilling at 477

With the same skills as above and only changing this it would result in new sub-total of: [(109,10625 - 1,951250) + 0,298125] = 107,453125

Sub-total
= 107,453125

Expected total = 107,45 + 88,5 = 195,95

Either:
there is an hidden 1 HP bonus somewhere
there is a skill(s) that gives (HP bonus for unlocking something)
there is another skill(s) that gives and isn't in the list yet
one of the skills is being underestimated,

for example:
What I currently believe: Attributes gave bonus for reaching certain levels

1 HP bonus given for reaching level 100 in Agility.
(or maybe it's just level 70, and only 0,5 HP bonus on Agility and Strenght
Why level 70 and 0,5 HP ?
Well because the attributes started at 20, so 20+50 grants a special bonus of 0,5 HP. I need more data to determine what is wrong

With this the expected total would become:
107,45 + 88,5 + 1= 196,95
which is very accurate since I believe that that data was gatherer soon after she got to 197 in Health.

Yes the results are much better in predicting the Health level of an avatar comparing to what we had last week but this still doesn't satisfy me.

Doer · Mar 8, 2007

I added your formula to my spreadsheet with skill data since January '06 and found it to predict my health correctly (+-1) up to the point i reached around 80k total skills. :thumbup:

About the time i unlocked coolness it started to overpredict an increasingly large amount (it's overpredicting by almost 3 at the last point). However, it passed beyond +-1 a few points before the coolness unlock itself.

In my case, starting from 89 HP base and dividing attributes by 50 is closer but it still diverges at the end by over 1 hp.

MG Mighty · Mar 8, 2007

Doer said:
I added your formula to my spreadsheet with skill data since January '06 and found it to predict my health correctly (+-1) up to the point i reached around 80k total skills.

About the time i unlocked coolness it started to overpredict an increasingly large amount (it's overpredicting by almost 3 at the last point). However, it passed beyond +-1 a few points before the coolness unlock itself.

Well that's odd.
The current formula for me seems to be underpredicting on high level avatars.

Are you sure you set Serendipity to 1 HP per 1600, instead of 2?
That was a source of mistake in Nicole and Demoniac skills.
(So I decrease the impact of the modifiers Serendipity and Commando because of their data, comparing with the modofiers posted yesterday).
Anyway I'm not sure of any of the unlocked skills,
it's just guesses based on the information that I collected.

I would appreciate more data to analyse the impact of unlocked skills.

Doer · Mar 8, 2007

I just copied the contributions from the first post so i had serendipity at 1/800. Upon changing it to 1/1600 and the base HP to 88.5 i'm +-1 all the way.

Witte · Mar 19, 2007

My skills at exactly 142HP. Screenshots taken as soon i got the message.

Code:

Skill	Increase	Value	Value/Increase
Commando	200	0	0
Courage	320	3569,52	11,15
Coolness	400	2402,55	6,01
Athletics	533,3	2789,19	5,23
Melee Combat	533,3	2979,2	5,59
Dexterity	800	3122,72	3,9
Combat Sense	800	0	0
Perception	1600	2710,09	1,69
Serendipity	1600	3410,97	2,13
Combat Reflexes	1600	3796,77	2,37
Handgun	1600	4772,07	2,98
Rifle	1600	5738	3,59
Weapons Handling	1600	4156,4	2,6
Drilling	1600	64,75	0,04
Mining	1600	71,11	0,04
Prospecting	1600	72,07	0,05
Surveying	1600	72,86	0,05
Agility	40	71,59	1,79
Intelligence	40	51,09	1,28
Psyche	40	23,77	0,59
Strength	40	60,18	1,5
Total			52,59

142-52,59=89.41

Seems pretty accurate. About 1 HP off.

jdegre · May 25, 2007

Guys, outstanding work in this thread... I've checked against my HP (130 :ahh:

) and the error is <1hp. Fantastic.

I've added this hp-calculating feature to the chipping otimizer tool, and it seems to work quite nicely. Go check it out.

/jdegre.

plandon · May 29, 2007

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, I did try looking...

are we certain that Clubs, Powerfist etc etc add nothing to HP? :scratch2:

Rayne Jade · Jun 18, 2007

plandon said:
Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere, I did try looking...

are we certain that Clubs, Powerfist etc etc add nothing to HP?

Great thread, great tool... but was there an answer to this question regarding clubs & powerfist?

firejuggler · Jul 11, 2007

i just hitted 138 hp, lets see

Code:

1; (200) Commando -------------> 0 - 0.000000
2: (320) Courage ------------>3149 - 9.84
3; (400) Coolness -------------> 1320 - 3.3
4: (533,3) Athletics ---------> 2089- 3.92
5: (533,3) Melee Combat -----> 4146 - 7.74
6: (800) Dexterity ----------> 2467 - 3,08
7; (800) Combat Sense ---------> 0 - 0.000000
8: (1600) Perception --------> 2380 - 1.48
9; (1600) Serendipity ---------> 2826 - 1.76
10: (1600) Combat Reflexes --> 3437 - 2.15
11. (1600) Handgun ---------> 3563 - 2.23
12: (1600) Rifle ----------->   2516 - 1.57
13: (1600) Weapons Handling -> 3541 - 2.21
14. (1600) Drilling ---------> 1059 - 0.66
15: (1600) Mining ------------> 2687 - 1.68
16. (1600) Prospecting ------> 1804- 1.13
17. (1600) Surveying --------> 563 - 0,35
18. (40) Agility --------------> 67 - 1.675
19. (40) Intelligence ---------> 55-  1.375
20. (40) Psyche--------------> 24 - 0.6
21. (40) Strength-------------> 69 - 1.725

total health gained 48.475 -2 (started with 20 at attribute)

138-46.475=91.525

so if we start with 90.9 hp there is a small marginof 0.5 hp 'missing'. another thing i find is that if i consider 34 attribute for 1 hp, i havea total of 49.4235.. -2.3529 (20 starting attribute) =46.0706..
->>>138- 47.0706=90.9294 hp base
wich would be a bit more accurate (target of 90.9 hp base).
you should consider for 34 attribute for1HP. (or even 33,333333 you know... round number^^ skipping calculation, it would give me a hp base of 90.85 hp )

edit: oh additional info: i chipped out 2400 shortblade and no hp loose, so i guess that sb do not affect it.

JoLin · Jul 11, 2007

Are you interested in info from others? I skilled a little longblade to gain an extra HP from strength and as seen on the screenshot it does happen at 40 (or when you are over 39.5). Hope it helps.

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Lyper · Jul 11, 2007

+Rep For that usefull threads, we need more like this :silly2:

SnapNet · Jul 11, 2007

Yeah, +rep here too... nice work!! Need some time to digest all the information, but will definitely read up on it more when I'm out of work

firejuggler · Jul 13, 2007

139 hp, 'new' stat

Code:

1; (200) Commando -------------> 0 - 0.000000
2: (320) Courage ------------> 3200(3199)- 10
3; (400) Coolness -------------> 1480 - 3,7
4: (533,3) Athletics ---------> 2143 - 2,4601
5: (533,3) Melee Combat -----> 4184 - 7,8455
6: (800) Dexterity ----------> 2492 - 3,1150
7; (800) Combat Sense ---------> 0 - 0.000000
8: (1600) Perception --------> 2404 - 1,5025
9; (1600) Serendipity ---------> 2894- 1.8088
10: (1600) Combat Reflexes --> 3469 - 2.1681
11. (1600) Handgun ---------> 3599 - 2,2493
12: (1600) Rifle ----------->   2560 - 1,6
13: (1600) Weapons Handling -> 3466 - 2.1663
14. (1600) Drilling ---------> 1059- 0,6619
15: (1600) Mining ------------> 2687 -1.6794
16. (1600) Prospecting ------> 1803 - 1.1269
17. (1600) Surveying --------> 562 -0.35125 

total 42.0838

18. (40) Agility --------------> 67,19 - 1.67975
19. (40) Intelligence ---------> 55,31-  1.38.275
20. (40) Psyche--------------> 24,79 - 0.61975
21. (40) Strength-------------> 69,55 - 1.73875
total 5.421

(attribute from entropedia, after uploading csv)
47,5048hp gain
difference :
139-47.5048=91.4952

the differenceof 0.5hp is still there (i startedat 90,9 hp)

Code:

1; (200) Commando -------------> 0 - 0.000000
2: (320) Courage ------------>51- 0.160
3; (400) Coolness -------------> 160- 0.400
4: (533,3) Athletics ---------> 54 - 0.10125
5: (533,3) Melee Combat -----> 38 - 0.07125
6: (800) Dexterity ----------> 25 - 0.03125
7; (800) Combat Sense ---------> 0 - 0.000000
8: (1600) Perception --------> 24 - 0.01500
9; (1600) Serendipity --------->69 - 0.043125
10: (1600) Combat Reflexes --> 33- 0.020625
11. (1600) Handgun --------->36 - 0.0225
12: (1600) Rifle ----------->   44 - 0.0275
13: (1600) Weapons Handling -> 15 - 0.09375
14. (1600) Drilling ---------> 0-0
15: (1600) Mining ------------> 0 - 0
16. (1600) Prospecting ------> 0-0
17. (1600) Surveying --------> 0-0
18. (40) Agility --------------> 0.12-0.003
19. (40) Intelligence ---------> 0.04- 0.001
20. (40) Psyche--------------> 0-0 
21. (40) Strength-------------> 0.18 -0.0045

so total gained with your numer : 0.99475 the rest (0.00525) can be be explained by the rounding.

so i abandon myidea of 34 attribute for an HP.

firejuggler · Jul 18, 2007

another update, at 142 hp

Code:

1; (200) Commando -------------> 0 - 0.000000
2: (320) Courage ------------> 3695- 11,546875
3; (400) Coolness -------------> 1638 - 4,095
4: (533,3) Athletics ---------> 2225 - 4,174484
5: (533,3) Melee Combat -----> 4247 - 7,968105
6: (800) Dexterity ----------> 2536 - 3,17
7; (800) Combat Sense ---------> 0 - 0.000000
8: (1600) Perception --------> 2445- 1,528125
9; (1600) Serendipity ---------> 2970- 1.85625
10: (1600) Combat Reflexes --> 3511 - 2.194375
11. (1600) Handgun ---------> 3655 - 2,284375
12: (1600) Rifle ----------->   3384 - 2,115
13: (1600) Weapons Handling -> 3484 - 2.1775
14. (1600) Drilling ---------> 1068- 0,6675
15: (1600) Mining ------------> 2726 -1.7037
16. (1600) Prospecting ------> 1875 - 1.171875
17. (1600) Surveying --------> 590 -0.36875

total 45,318214

18. (40) Agility --------------> 67,4 - 1.685
19. (40) Intelligence ---------> 55,4-  1.385
20. (40) Psyche--------------> 25,22 - 0.6305
21. (40) Strength-------------> 69,84 - 1.74.6
total 5.4465

total 50,764714
base of 90.9, so 142-50.764714 = 91.235286
91.235286-90.9=0.335286

difference of 0,3hp the derivation seem to reduce (previous derivation of 0.5952)

cbehen · Jul 19, 2007

Additional Health

I dont know why but when my courage was 1600 ;I didnt gain additional health.
Also when My riffle was 3200 also I didnt gain additional health.

Maybe these numbers are correct.But I think you gain health not only by one skill.İt increases by the sum of the corresponding skills.

Maybe i am wrong ,I dont know.

Lizzay · Jul 19, 2007

Nice thread useful info there :yay:

Traf Rellik · Jul 19, 2007

cbehen said:
I dont know why but when my courage was 1600 ;I didnt gain additional health.
Also when My riffle was 3200 also I didnt gain additional health.

Maybe these numbers are correct.But I think you gain health not only by one skill.İt increases by the sum of the corresponding skills.

Maybe i am wrong ,I dont know.

All stats add in fractional increments, so you simply weren't on the crossover boundary at the time. In other words, assuming EVERY stat was on it's own boundary except for one, which was at a half way mark, you could cross every one of them and now be slightly above the half increment of health.

Doer · Aug 7, 2007

Got a little treat for you, MG. It starts here near the bottom with my post and continues onto page three.

Mar73 · Aug 8, 2007

Hi all

Just a little Q regarding skill gains versus health points...

I read in this thread that Mining gives 3 HP per 1600 lvl...

Since I'm a hunter I tought that these skills would come in handy and purchase the mining skills (I hate mining btw, find it soooo boring

Was at 98 pts in mining. After I inserted the chip = 2054.

The thing is I tought I would gain AT LEAST 3 HP (maybe even 4 1600-->2054) but only got 1 !!! 119-->120 and I'm a big bit disapointed

What did I missed ?

Thx and have a nice day

GoNi · Aug 8, 2007

Mar73 said:
Hi all

Just a little Q regarding skill gains versus health points...

I read in this thread that Mining gives 3 HP per 1600 lvl...

Since I'm a hunter I tought that these skills would come in handy and purchase the mining skills (I hate mining btw, find it soooo boring

Was at 98 pts in mining. After I inserted the chip = 2054.

The thing is I tought I would gain AT LEAST 3 HP (maybe even 4 1600-->2054) but only got 1 !!! 119-->120 and I'm a big bit disapointed

What did I missed ?

Thx and have a nice day

It is only 1 HP / 1600 don´t know where you find 3!

2054-98 = 1956

1956/1600=1.2225 <-- thats the ammount of HP you got from the chip

You would have gained 2 points if you where at 119.7775 HP before chipping, what you are obviously not!

Skills and Health

Stalker

Marauder

Stalker

Marauder

Stalker

Stalker

Stalker

Marauder

Stalker

Stalker

Stalker

Marauder

Stalker

Marauder

Marauder

Elite

Guardian

Marauder

Old Alpha

Dominant

Provider

Alpha

Old Alpha

Old Alpha

Young

Dominant

Old Alpha

Marauder

Guardian

Slayer