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Hurrikane

Hurrikane

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Oscar Hurrikane SkyQuake
Hi, I've been inspired to write this thread by the often-brought up and much- disputed notion that EU can be played, or enjoyed, for the same cost as that of a regular MMORPG's subscription fee (the magic $15 a month).

Of course, for purposes such as chat and exploration, and even sweating, EU is free, to download and use, and even turns a tiny profit, for no cost other than gaming time if sweating is something you are happy doing. But most people would consider "playing" EU to involve taking up a trade, most popularly hunter, miner or crafter. These activities all require money.

If you sweat, or swunt, you can hunt (low level and infrequently) for free, and mine with tt-equipment. If you depo $15, a lot can be done with low level equipment. No-one says the idea of the game is to fire your weapon from log on to log off in the race for loot and skills. In my opinion it is as good, or better to play it as a RPG, let your avatar's fortunes reflect your own, as with the avatar's activities. If have money IRL I go out, buy things, and hunt with all my best stuff. I'm broke I stay in, read, and scrape pecs for small mobs in armour needing 300 Ped repair, and still have the same amount of fun.

So what I'd like to know, to see whether it's a fact worth knowing, is what could be done with $15 a month, if spent wisely on a new avatar.
I haven't got the figures or facts to hand but it'd be something like this:

Cost of the most eco starting equipment/ammo/probes-bombs etc, and number of uses from what's left from $15, from there it would be $15 a month ammo/mining expendables/repair or replacement of L stuff.

Expected skill gains from the pattern of use seen above. Effect of skill gains on how far the $15 goes as they build.

Expected returns and relative figures after these are cycled.

Costs of upgrading when sufficient levels are reached.

Overall time to get 200k skills/200 Health.

I realise all figures are going to have to involve an element of estimation, but I'd really like to know; what can you really expect to get playing for $15 a month for several years?

Thanks for any input, even the scorn.

By the way, I don't put in $15 a month, I'm just saying an entertaining time can be had for that amount.

Hurrikane
 
Really depends on how you play. It is possible to profit from the start, but it's unlikely to happen given that a new player wouldn't know how to go about it. I think maybe a week or two deposit free (just to get a feel for things, do some sweating, tp runs, forum reading, etc) followed by a $60 depo, followed by $10 a month would be a better as you need a bit of PED to buy armours and faps and stuff, as well as some PED to buy ammo with.

It can be done, but it'd be slow going at first, especially their low bankroll meant bad runs force them into sweating between deposits. As to time to get to 200k skills, 200 health, etc, really depends how much work they put into it. With a low budget they'd have to track returns pretty carefully, and hunt very low-level for quite a while. But if they were successful and got to the point they could upgrade to stuff like P5A, etc, eventually they'd be no more constrained than anyone else in terms of progress.

Here's an example of someone who played pretty frugally but progressed pretty well: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ion/67098-economics-frugality-experiment.html
 
I think there's a problem with the terms "enjoying" and "spending wisely".

In all the MMO's and games I play, I always waste a substantial ammount of credits/money in clothes and accessories.

The difference being that for $15 a month I could get myself a cool wardrobe and some props only limited by the ammount of time I spend playing, whereas $15 will dissapear in an hour or less at the Entropian auction.

If I don't play with style, I'm not enjoying the game. :D

I'd rather spend hours sweating and gawping at some cool threads than spending half an hour calculating, half an hour searching and five minutes shooting... in a potato sack.


Ah! But you're proposing your hypothesis towards the typical shoot-n-loot gamers, right? Well, I'd be interested to hear about their boring methods of survival, so unfit for a planet with teleporters, state of the art tanks and revival units.

I haven't yet found the catalyst to mix wise and fun in one game.
(Not to be confused with Magic/Nano/Mana/Mind Force).

I once heard that an alchemist in the XXVth century discovered the Gamers' Stone but was murdered by a consortium of computer companies as an example to anyone who would dare to create a wickedly awesome free MMO.


Whatever the case, my answer to your question is: depression.
I expect to get really depressed after wisely playing with $15 a month for years and years. That's why I don't deposit, and instead earn $15/month in contests and events and waste it all on virtual bling bling. :D
 
Hurrikane said:
If you sweat, or swunt, you can hunt (low level and infrequently) for free
Click to expand...

If you're using the correct gear and have ample skills then swunting can be done continually without loss and without deposit, just make sure you got some coffee or you'll be waking up to your keyboard as a pillow.

If you are determined not to deposit, you can play for free and succeed. The gains are slow but they're gains and not losses.

I've gained over 35-40k skills from swunting and have yet to make my first deposit.

How I see depositting is, it's for people who want to skill fast, who want to play beyond their skill level or who want to invest (not knocking any of these styles, we're all here to play, some just enjoy higher stakes and it results in losses for most). If you just want to play low stakes (at or below your skill level), you can do it without loss.

Just a note, it did take some skilling before I reached a point where swunting was continual profit, IMO a noob cannot expect to profit while swunting from day 1.

Had I depositted $15 to start, I would have probably lost it all, got discouraged and quit, glad I didn't.
 
I know someone who depo'd $12 in all his time ingame, and is worth maybe 20k ped + has withdrawn a few times. Whether that is possible nowadays i'm not sure, also he is the exception rather than the norm.
Anybody could play on that budget, whether it is fun though is another matter entirely.
 
u can.. its easy.. nowdays, a deposit of 2k ped in the beginning is enough for ever if u ask me... wont tell how to do it :p
 
When I started playing EU again I deposited $20 bought the tt armor + opalo and just went on a killing rampage. Spent alot of peds playing really stupid before I heard about the sib system. (used a L murdand groover for a long time with low skills)

Too bad I never had a mentor lol could have saved me alot of bucks, time I got scammed for like 600peds worth of equipment didn't help either.

Now I am just grinding away on low level mobs using opalo+a101, not very exciting but I can almost hunt non stop, every day, the whole month for $10-$20.

What I'm getting at is that with the right setup, the right advice (from the start, aka a good mentor), and a lot of perseverance. I don't see any reason why you cant have a good EU experience for $15 per month.

But and this is a big one, if you want clothes, pets, an apartment or any of the other stuff that makes EU really fun then I don't think $15 per
month is enough. Also I think crafting and mining is out of the question on $15.
 
you can sweat, hunt, mine, and even craft from time to time on $15 a month forever. It will take you longer to get to high levels but that's the tradeoff for investing time instead of money. I made it over a year and a half without depositing anything, I only made one deposit after CES after that year and a half, and only what my compensation was for assisting at the CES table. When I deposited I had already unlocked MMS, MDA, MA, serendipity, and CGA, and was around 100k total skills. I had also purchased an unlimited embra c1 (+800 at the time) a few amps, and other gear, and the deposit was less than half my worth in game excluding skills. In fact, I only deposited because I had missed many opportunities because of having lower funds, and I figured I got that money because of the game anyway so I might as well put it back in.

Assuming you have a job and have to work around that to play, I would guess it would take a successful person approx 4 years to get to the 200k skill points on $15 a month if you upgraded slowly, kept playing at a low/mid level, had a little bit of luck from time to time, and had no issues selling or buying skills as it fit into your strategy.

I also guess 90% of people would not accomplish this due to some combination of poor planning and bad luck. My honest suggestion, even though I feel I was successful, would be to deposit $50 as if it were any other game you bought, spend it slowly and only start your $15 a month once you are comfortable. Then, I would consider depositing more or less for specific reasons. I handicapped myself as a challenge to prove I could do it. Now, I realize it would have been much easier to have just gone ahead and deposited a little or a lot, either way I'd be much further ahead than I am now. I don't think it is any less likely to do it now than it was when I started though. Sweat has dropped from .6-.7 to .4-.5 yes, but the addition of stones makes up for it. Some opportunities dry up and new ones open up constantly.

btw, itree was an inspiration.
 
Norbert said:
I know someone who depo'd $12 in all his time ingame, and is worth maybe 20k ped + has withdrawn a few times. Whether that is possible nowadays i'm not sure, also he is the exception rather than the norm.
Anybody could play on that budget, whether it is fun though is another matter entirely.
Click to expand...


I believe CMOT's talking about me :)

I deposited $12 a month or 2 after starting the game. I have since withdrawn about $150 (Not officially, trading my RL brother PED for $), and my account now is probably worth 15-20k peds. I have played for a little over 3 years, though a good 95% of my playings been in the last year and a half.

I spend at least an hour or so at least every day in auctions, then craft primarily, and mine/beacon otherwise. Only hunting I do is the rare team hunt, or WoF. Don't think this is the "$15/month" play Hurrikane is talking about at all. It took a lot of trading, and watching markets to get to the point where I feel I can play at a normal level (though still not hunting). Don't get me wrong, of course I still have the -300 PED days, but I do break about even or slowly profit as time drags on.

Anyone "could" do it, just a lot of people would much rather "play" the game. Personally, my idea of fun isnt tossing money at this thing all the time and pointing a pixel gun, mindlessly shooting. Im a single guy with a full time job, could very well afford it, but I enjoy the challenge of "beating" the big bad guys at MA :p.

So yeah, you "can" play for $15/month, but in my experience its a different play than the $a lot/month deposit. I know others have done it eco-hunting too, which is probably a lot closer to your idea than my story. The game is what you make of it, really.

~Omega
 
There are a couple of people around who claim to have got Commando within in a couple of years without depositing - which I have to say I'm dubious about given how far away I am after 3 years of active playing and (probably below average amount of) depositing - but that's what they say.

If they are telling the truth then clearly serious advancement without major depositing is possible.

Typically I would say $15/month is not going to get you very far very fast though. I guess I probably depoed about that much on average over the first 3 months, which is about how long it took me to graduate (in my case it was more like no depo for 2 months and then $50 in the third month - something like that anyway, it was a long time ago and I can't remember now :D)
 
What $15 a month (usually all I depo nowadays) gets me is 3 - 5 (depending how well I do) 50 ped ammo argo hunts. Each hunt on gatherer - hunter maturity lasts roughly an hour south of Hadeshiem. In return I get about one point in handgun per hunt plus a handfull of other skills and that's about it.

It doesn't seam to even matter much weather I use an L gun or a regular weapon it all comes out about the same in the end and that's at lvl 35 hit 34 dmg.

Of course I can make the money last much longer on snables (which I currently am doing) and get slightly better skill return in the end but it is boring as hell and the money still goes eventually.
 
But, isn't the real question, "How does the $15/month Entropia experience compare to any other $15/month subscription-based game"?

In reading the posts in this thread so far, I am seeing a recurring theme of "It's possible to play Entropia for little or no money per month. I (a guy I know) has done it. All you need to do is stick to a very tight budget and/or maintain an incredibly monotonous playing regimen."

I guess it really comes down to what your goals are and what your concept of an enjoyable gaming experience really is.

For some people, there seems to be a huge amount of satisfaction in being able to say that they can play Entropia for less than $15/month when other people are spending $100/week on it. Some want to start with nothing and, after a few years of serious work, end up with an avatar that is worth $1000 or so. Others think that being an auction whore / reseller and turning some sort of profit is the most exciting thing. Then there are the die hard gamblers who figure that if they "swunt" :)rolleyes: Man, I hate that term) for long enough and keep pulling the EU slot machine lever, they will eventually hit the jackpot. But, I really have to believe that for 99% of the online gaming population, those are not real priorities.

About a year and a half ago, I realized that it was going to be a seriously long time before MA got CE2 finished or made any real improvements to the game. So, I decided to look for other ways to spend my online time. I downloaded and installed [the game whose name I can't mention, but that has the real space pirates] which is a subscription based game. For $13/month, I'm having a ball. I can play as much as I want, my toons are making great progress, and there is virtually none of the frustration that is a big part of the Entropia experience.

Do I still play Entropia? Yes, a little. Will I come back and play more if/when they finish the Crytopia release? Sure, for a while, but I'll be damned if I am going back to my $100/wk habit. For me, what that means is simply limiting my online time to 5 or 6 hours/wk. I don't think I'll be under $20/month, but $10 or $20/wk isn't all that bad, either.
 
Last edited:
Monthly limit: 30000.00 PED
Remaining monthly limit: 27888.00 PED

Actual PED Card Balance: 0.04 PED

(Loots mentionable: 1 Molisk Global)

Answer:
No, you can't play Entropia Universe for $15/Month
 
DrPaddo said:
Monthly limit: 30000.00 PED
Remaining monthly limit: 27888.00 PED

Actual PED Card Balance: 0.04 PED

(Loots mentionable: 1 Molisk Global)

Answer:
No, you can't play Entropia Universe for $15/Month
Click to expand...

HAHA.. Awesomnes is expensive :D
 
It all depends on what you think is fun. For me a significant part of the fun is finding good loots. This means I don't just go out and shoot all ammo I carry on the current mob. As result, I don't need to deposit at all. However, if you consider looking for good loot boring, and just want to shoot the mob you want regardless the returns, I guess the game can be very expensive.
 
For more then a year I cycle on average 22k ped(2.2k$) a month only in hunting and I don't deposit.

It is possible to play without deposits or limited deposits, but it's not easy or always fun.

By playing I don't mean sweat hunting, sweating, trading or just hunting snables because everybody can do that.
 
Looking for similar wirtual world with mounthly fee and no rce.
 
Jimmy B said:
Here's an example of someone who played pretty frugally but progressed pretty well: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ion/67098-economics-frugality-experiment.html
Click to expand...

KeynesAlley said:
That was 2 years ago, back when I got my last global or higher.

I'm sure it was a lot easier back then because the loots weren't nerfed so bad.
Click to expand...

I've been on a rather extended hiatus, mostly waiting for Crytopia to come along, so haven't played as much as I used to. Mostly participating in the WoF and such.

I do, however, agree that it was much easier to play economically before the loot distribution curve was widened to the current extremely heavy-tailed version. Having said that, I seem to have roughly broken even on this year's WoF (my team got knocked out and I'm not motivated enough to support another at this time). All WoF hunts bar one were losses, but the one team HoF in the preliminaries was enough to offset them. The fact that the median loot is now much smaller is not the major issue regarding eco playing. The far bigger problem is lack of markup on obtainable loot. When I started animal hides had 200% MU, and Molisks dropped 2 teeth on avg, so it was easilly possible to profit on markup even when losing on TT.

Regarding the fun-factor: to each his own. I don't find shooting the same Big Bad Mob (tm) any more fun than swunting Snables. If you think about it, killing a Hogglo with a MM wearing plated Supremecy and using a Mod FAP is pretty much the same experience as hunting Snables with an m2100 unarmored. Sure the pixels might be showing a slightly different picture, and the PED turnover is gonna be in different scales, but at the end of the day both Avatars are going to gain a measely amount of skills (I assume for the sake of discussion that both avatars have just recently maxed their weapons).

My pleasure came from playing a negative-sum game and coming out ahead. That is why I handicapped myself to not sell any free-to-get items (sweat, fruit, rocks) or engage in trading of any sort (apart from buying gear that I required for my hunting and couldn't loot myslef and selling off the junk I looted and had no use for). Due to technical dificulties, most notably lag of up to 8 seconds between the time I shoot/get hit and actually get to see the results (I have woken up at a revival once before my screen showed I was killed) have taken a lot of the fun away. So now I'm waiting to see if the new engine will fix that.
 
Witte said:
It all depends on what you think is fun. For me a significant part of the fun is finding good loots. This means I don't just go out and shoot all ammo I carry on the current mob. As result, I don't need to deposit at all. However, if you consider looking for good loot boring, and just want to shoot the mob you want regardless the returns, I guess the game can be very expensive.
Click to expand...

You teach the mobs to speak?
Witte: "Hi Mobs, I'm looking for one of you that's carrying some nice gear, I won't kill you all if that Mob comes forward now."
Mob: "Ok, ok just take it all, here... please, just leave my family alone!"
Witte: "Thanks! Could you please point me to a costume store? I heard there's a Molisk who needs a toothfairy."
 
Activities that you do with others are quite enjoyable and do not have to cost a mountain.

Hunt big mobs with a tt-fist in a team on big trax, armax, or join one of zap's opalo hunts on neconu and the insects (name doesnt spring to mind)

for example:
150 peds = 8 tt-fists.

If you hunt in a team with 3 or 4 ppl, a tt-fist lasts like 2-3 hours

8fists*3hours = 24 hours of entertainment, if you get NO LOOT AT ALL.

lets assume you get 70% return in loot per hunt.

150 peds = 24 hours of entertainment
-30%
105 peds = 18 hours of entertainment
-30%
73,5 peds = 12 hours of entertainment
-30%
51 peds = 9 hours of entertainment
-30%
35 peds = 6 hours of entertainment
-30%
24 peds = 3 hours of entertainment

total of 72 hours if you hunt with a tt-fist in a team of 4

I play like 16 hours a week

so playing like this lasts 4,5 weeks.. which is a month.
---

pro's
- you get to hunt big mobs
- you are with friends
- tt-fists are fast and if you wear no armour, it;s very entertaining to see if you can kill a mob or if it kills you.

cons
- rsi
 
Profit said:
You teach the mobs to speak?
Witte: "Hi Mobs, I'm looking for one of you that's carrying some nice gear, I won't kill you all if that Mob comes forward now."
Mob: "Ok, ok just take it all, here... please, just leave my family alone!"
Witte: "Thanks! Could you please point me to a costume store? I heard there's a Molisk who needs a toothfairy."
Click to expand...

No I just learned their language, they always have been speaking as far as I know ;).
 
Witte said:
No I just learned their language, they always have been speaking as far as I know ;).
Click to expand...
If you say perception my entire faith in humanity will fail.
 
tenx

ty to every one wery usefool info I get...
 
The sad part is that this type of post is needed at all. It should not be hard to find a playstyle for the game that is enjoyable and costs $20ish a month. The fact that it is seems a flaw in the game to me.
 
I started EU back when it was PE and during the big flood of newcomers after the CND sale was announced in the major news outlets. That`s well over 3 and a half years ago. In that time I`ve deposited about $500 USD. It works out that I have deposited just over $11 a month. I did`nt deposit for the first few months. And there were times I did not deposit for many many months. So far this year I have not deposited since January. I have never been a trader and only sell or auction what I loot. So where has this gotten me?

Today I sit at about 125k total skills and getting to the mid level mark in HP`s. I have several sets of plated armor up to ghost with a nice assortment of weapons including plasma rifles, various pistols, a handful of weapon amps covering all my guns, a small collection of blades, Bd implant with several chips. I like to mine and had all the 105 gear from years ago and now run with some nice (L) gear. I also own an apartment on CND and have a storage full of odds and ends I can look to when PED gets really low and loot is bad. I manage to play pretty much every day since I started minus a few weeks for vacations. I rarely miss a day. Some days I play more than others. But I`m always hunting or mining. In this time I`ve logged hundreds of globals, many many hofs including a few ubers and one mining tower. So how did I get here, how did I do it?

Patience! As far as my society goes I have by far gotten the most bang for my buck. I know people who put in more in a week than I have in my whole EU career and they have quite a bit less than me. Some have surpassed me in HP in much shorter time but have less total skills. I am a well rounded avatar with many unlocks in all professions aside from beauty. Again the key is patience. In EU you can either spend time or money. I chose a path in the middle. I try to play wise in all areas with the occasional splurges when I have PED to spare. I have always invested back in parts of my better loots. There have been a few times where I ran my PED card dry so Instead of deposit I went back to sweating for a time. I got more basic skills, made more contacts and jump started my playing while renewing my appreciation for the game. Other times another 10 or 20 dollars was needed.

There are many ways to play EU and to quote them it is more than a game. EU is whatever you want to make it. But rest assured it can be played and enjoyed for a modest amount. Yes there were many times I got frustrated but not enough to make me stop or take a break. Just enough to harden my resolve. EU is a long term thing so I see no reason why people should think it is a get rich quick thing. Nor an easy thing to do. I have never chipped or withdrawn. I could have withdrawn my total deposits after my tower but chose not to. In which case I could have said it costed me nothing for over 3 and a half years of EU game time. Very active game time.

So to sum it up. Yes you can enjoy EU on $15 USD per month. Not every minute of it but a whole lot of it and pretty much do everything the game has to offer as far as hunting mobs or participating in activities. And I did`nt even mention the social aspects. That`s just a big bonus!
 
KeynesAlley said:
That was 2 years ago, back when I got my last global or higher.

I'm sure it was a lot easier back then because the loots weren't nerfed so bad.
Click to expand...

Yeah, changes to loot distribution have certainly affected things. But there's plus points and minus points, it just means the approach needs changing slightly.

From a hunting point of view, it's easier to progress these days due to the range of L stuff, and that L stuff also provides markup opportunities in loot. However, I tend to agree loot return is more volatile which makes things difficult for those on small bankrolls. Also now, nearly everything you loot has some markup, which benefits those who can hold things until they stack up in big enough quantities to sell.

All in all, I think it certainly requires a bit more work to break even these days than the Amped Opalo days, but that was never going to last forever.

On a low budget, and starting out with no skills, it's hard to say how I'd proceed given that I don't hunt at that level at all anymore. Given that there's plenty of mining resources location info easily accessible to anyone, I think mining may be the best way to get going on a low bankroll these days.

Witte said:
It all depends on what you think is fun. For me a significant part of the fun is finding good loots. This means I don't just go out and shoot all ammo I carry on the current mob. As result, I don't need to deposit at all. However, if you consider looking for good loot boring, and just want to shoot the mob you want regardless the returns, I guess the game can be very expensive.
Click to expand...

Interesting that we hunt in totally different ways and yet find ways to make it work. I don't change mob until I've broken my amp.

ano said:
If you say perception my entire faith in humanity will fail.
Click to expand...

Hehehe. I've never abandoned off-the-wall theories like perception and serendipity and stuff, although I can't say they hugely influence what I do either.

People are often to quick to dismiss things that seem unlikely though. Using skill gain to indicate the condition of the local environment isn't really a totally outrageous idea. I've certainly seen no proof that such things don't happen, and until I do I'll allow myself to keep half an eye on my skill gains while I hunt. After all, it's no effort and if the theory is bogus all it means is any activity you take based on it is effectively just changing which random-looting mob you kill next. Chasing perception gains doesn't cost anyone anything, granted it may not gain you anything either, but well you just never know.
 
Hurrikane said:
Hi, I've been inspired to write this thread by the often-brought up and much- disputed notion that EU can be played, or enjoyed, for the same cost as that of a regular MMORPG's subscription fee (the magic $15 a month).

Of course, for purposes such as chat and exploration, and even sweating, EU is free, to download and use, and even turns a tiny profit, for no cost other than gaming time if sweating is something you are happy doing. But most people would consider "playing" EU to involve taking up a trade, most popularly hunter, miner or crafter. These activities all require money.

If you sweat, or swunt, you can hunt (low level and infrequently) for free, and mine with tt-equipment. If you depo $15, a lot can be done with low level equipment. No-one says the idea of the game is to fire your weapon from log on to log off in the race for loot and skills. In my opinion it is as good, or better to play it as a RPG, let your avatar's fortunes reflect your own, as with the avatar's activities. If have money IRL I go out, buy things, and hunt with all my best stuff. I'm broke I stay in, read, and scrape pecs for small mobs in armour needing 300 Ped repair, and still have the same amount of fun.

So what I'd like to know, to see whether it's a fact worth knowing, is what could be done with $15 a month, if spent wisely on a new avatar.
I haven't got the figures or facts to hand but it'd be something like this:

Cost of the most eco starting equipment/ammo/probes-bombs etc, and number of uses from what's left from $15, from there it would be $15 a month ammo/mining expendables/repair or replacement of L stuff.

Expected skill gains from the pattern of use seen above. Effect of skill gains on how far the $15 goes as they build.

Expected returns and relative figures after these are cycled.

Costs of upgrading when sufficient levels are reached.

Overall time to get 200k skills/200 Health.

I realise all figures are going to have to involve an element of estimation, but I'd really like to know; what can you really expect to get playing for $15 a month for several years?

Thanks for any input, even the scorn.

By the way, I don't put in $15 a month, I'm just saying an entertaining time can be had for that amount.

Hurrikane
Click to expand...

i think before you can take a person from a 15$ a month game and put them in this game, they need a serious boot camp.

in other games when you start you get weapons right off the bat to hunt mobs and get exp fairly easy in the begining. though twards the higher levels you dont really need to put a mortgage on your house to buy the armor to hunt the higher level mobs with. new people to a RCE based game will never grasp the concept of having to pay 30k usa for virtual items. i for one am a avid player of those types of games, and still to this day think its crazy to spend that kind of money on this game. i was able to recycle 50 ped for 6 months a year and a half ago, then loot got worse on the average since then.
so right now i say no the average person can not play this game effectively on 15$ a month with out sweating, being frugal, and not hunting. and that will not sit to well with most people.

:twocents:

Arf
 
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