The efficiency of scopes/lasers

[RazorFire]

Ok, Tests Completed and fully updated:

Test #1

HA: 4.1
Location: NE of TI City
Mob: Cornundacauda Alpha to Stalker
Weapon: IMK2, Abrer Sight full TT, Gargul Sight full TT, Grender Scope full TT. Skillmod: 43.5%
Armour: Shadow +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 1000
Misses: 173
Hit %: 82.70
Corns Killed: 87

Total Loot:
(incl 3 pieces (f) kobold armour) - 1 global
=189.34 PED TT (2.18 Ped each)

Total Cost:
150.00 PED Ammo
2.55 PED Weapon Decay
0.70 PED Grender Decay
0.46 PED Abrer Decay
0.90 PED Gargul Decay
0.00 PED FAP Decay
4.49 PED Armour Decay
0.59 PED Plate Decay

=159.69 PED TT (1.84 PED each)

Return % = 118.6%

Test #2

HA: 4.1
Location: NE of TI City
Mob: Cornundacauda Alpha to Stalker
Weapon: IMK2
Armour: Shadow +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 1000
Misses: 165
Hit %: 83.50
Corns Killed: 91

Total Loot:
(incl 3 pieces goblin armour) - 2 globals
=201.91 PED TT (2.22 PED each)

Total Cost:
150.00 PED Ammo
2.55 PED Weapon Decay
0.00 PED FAP Decay
4.40 PED Armour Decay
0.58 PED Plate Decay

=157.53 PED TT (1.73 PED each)

Return % = 128.2%


All I can say for now is that in the first run, lag was really terrible. This carried over into the second run, 239 shots into the second run, hit % was only 80.3. However, the lag then lifted and the rest of the second run the hitrate was 84.5%, closer to the normal expected hit rate for this HA. This highlights the need for further testing. The second run commenced straight after the first after repairs and storage were completed. However, at the moment, after 2 tests the bottom line seems to be no difference in hit rate. I am confident this will change with more testing. In the first run on 4-6 occasions i missed 6-7 shots out of 15-20 at a single mob. This simply should not happen. Overall hit % is down on what it should be in both cases. This was also performed at a quiet MA time, 10:00-12:00 on a weekday morning, so the lag is inexplicable, unless it was those weird purple trees...

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Remembering this time Phase 1 was with attachments...

Skill - Initial - After Phase 1 - After Phase 2
Aim - 3346 - 3347 - 3347
CR - 3414 - 3414 - 3416
IRD - 1899 - 1899 - 1902
MMS - 3784 - 3790 - 3794
RDA - 2609 - 2616 - 2624
Rifle - 5973 - 5974 - 5795
WH - 2639 - 2645 - 2649
LWT - 4968 - 4970 - 4973
Coolness - 1900 - 1901 - 1904
Serendipity - 1805 - 1808 - 1813
Anatomy - 6037 - 6037 - 6038

Laser Sniper: 40.90 - 40.91 - 40.93

Nothing conclusive either way here, may need 3-4k shots in a run using each setup to get a clearer picture

 

[Witte]

Yes lag makes testing very difficult. I am on wireless myself, which makes tesing useless all together. I very often do damage long after the shot is fired. In the meanwhile I can do many more hits, then all in a sudden I do 3x damage in a second. I also do damage after the mob is already dead and looted quiet often. The opposite also happens, mob already dead, but not updated on my side, resulting in many lost shots.

 

[Doer]

All I can say for now is that in the first run, lag was really terrible. This carried over into the second run, 239 shots into the second run, hit % was only 80.3. However, the lag then lifted and the rest of the second run the hitrate was 84.5%, closer to the normal expected hit rate for this HA. This highlights the need for further testing. The second run commenced straight after the first after repairs and storage were completed. However, at the moment, after 2 tests the bottom line seems to be no difference in hit rate. I am confident this will change with more testing. In the first run on 4-6 occasions i missed 6-7 shots out of 15-20 at a single mob. This simply should not happen. Overall hit % is down on what it should be in both cases. This was also performed at a quiet MA time, 10:00-12:00 on a weekday morning, so the lag is inexplicable, unless it was those weird purple trees...

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

I would recommend not doing any testing on Amethera. The landscape and terrain both put enough load on my graphics card that i get "lag" without any action going on. The only place on Eudoria that i can get that to happen is where there are a lot of trees south of Zeus.

Corns are perhaps a bad mob for this test unless you kill them before they reach you because i've seen that they are one mob that can "reach through you" when they attack, leading you to miss by shooting behind them.

As far as missing a lot of shots on one mob goes, i used to think that was due to lag but it became apparent during my tests and especially while fapping Jimmy on chompers a while ago that it's just the way the "dynamic" system works. While counting chomper hits and misses on Jimmy, i saw the exact same thing: he went for many chompers without them missing him at all. Then, the same mob would miss 3-4 times. This happened a few times. Considering that mobs aren't really subject to lag the way players are, i think that this clustered nature of hits and misses is part of the system.

It's also why i tend to discount peoples' random theories about mobs missing when you do this, or that...

Anyway it is indeed a very difficult thing to test and i hope you will get some more consistent results!

 

[Skippie]

well, at least he got 4 more corns.

i can go test my imp 2870 with the 2x gargul and hanzor set up. perhaps if one easy flat land spawn was picked and several of us did a standard test on different scope sight kits, something could be learned about mod %.

 

[RazorFire]

Interesting comments about both Amethera as a whole and Corns in particular. Once I get home I'll post the full loot/decay/skillgain data for the two tests, and also a similar hit rate graph for the Ambu test.

It's a shame about the Corns, they were looting well too, as will be seen later 3 globals across the 2 tests, profited on both runs inspite of reduced shooting efficinecy

Edit: I like the idea of a group of us with different setups in an area killing the same mobs. I dont know whether extra green dots may increase lag though. Maybe some kind of tag team system would work, where one takes over the area as the other guy finishes his test run.

Hanzor and 2 garguls gives a very nice 53% hopefully if any setups going to find the truth, that will. Best theoretical setup is Jzar and 2 Jakth for 61%

I'm at best going to manage 52.5%, which is close enough. Additional test would be: Scope zoom on and off for an entire shooting set, as mentioned before

Until that's organised, I'll probably do a set at the feffs west of fury or argos north of twin, just to produce more data and see what if anything it shows.

 

[RazorFire]

I completed another 2000 shots for the with and without attachment categories last night and today. I hunted feffoids West of fury in the following manner: I went out with fully repaired attachemts, hunted for 1000 shots, repaired, removed attachments, hunted for 1000 shots, repaired, waited till the morning, hunted without attachments for 1000 shots, repaired, and hunted with attachments for 1000 shots.

The results using this setup can best be described as damning I should mention that of the 2 sights, the abrer was attached to the gun and the gargul to the scope.

Test #1

HA: 4.1
Location: W of Fury
Mob: Feffoids mainly, a few faucervix and tripudon if they got in my way
Weapon: IMK2, Abrer Sight full TT, Gargul Sight full TT, Grender Scope full TT. Skillmod: 43.5%
Armour: Ghost +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 1000
Misses: 173
Hit %: 82.70
Mobs Killed: 129

Total Loot:
(1 korss) - 1 global
=124.49 PED TT (0.97 Ped each)

Total Cost:
150.00 PED Ammo
2.55 PED Weapon Decay
0.70 PED Grender Decay
0.46 PED Abrer Decay
0.90 PED Gargul Decay
0.00 PED FAP Decay
1.38 PED Armour Decay
0.44 PED Plate Decay

=156.43 PED TT (1.21 PED each)

Return % = 79.6%

Test #2

HA: 4.1
Location: W of Fury
Mob: Feffoids mainly, a few faucervix and tripudon if they got in my way
Weapon: IMK2
Armour: Shadow +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 1000
Misses: 167
Hit %: 83.30
Mobs Killed: 128

Total Loot:
(1 korss) - 1 global
=154.65 PED TT (1.21 PED each)

Total Cost:
150.00 PED Ammo
2.55 PED Weapon Decay
0.00 PED FAP Decay
2.27 PED Armour Decay
0.72 PED Plate Decay

=155.54 PED TT (1.22 PED each)

Return % = 99.4%

Test #3

HA: 4.1
Location: W of Fury
Mob: Feffoids mainly, a few faucervix and tripudon if they got in my way
Weapon: IMK2
Armour: Shadow +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 1000
Misses: 143
Hit %: 85.70
Mobs Killed: 134

Total Loot:
=117.24 PED TT (0.87 PED each)

Total Cost:
150.00 PED Ammo
2.55 PED Weapon Decay
0.00 PED FAP Decay
1.34 PED Armour Decay
0.46 PED Plate Decay

=154.35 PED TT (1.15 PED each)

Return % = 76.0%

Test #4

HA: 4.1
Location: W of Fury
Mob: Feffoids mainly, a few faucervix and tripudon if they got in my way
Weapon: IMK2, Abrer Sight full TT, Gargul Sight full TT, Grender Scope full TT. Skillmod: 43.5%
Armour: Ghost +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 1000
Misses: 158
Hit %: 84.20
Mobs Killed: 136

Total Loot:
=105.55 PED TT (0.78 Ped each)

Total Cost:
150.00 PED Ammo
2.55 PED Weapon Decay
0.70 PED Grender Decay
0.46 PED Abrer Decay
0.90 PED Gargul Decay
0.00 PED FAP Decay
1.45 PED Armour Decay
0.46 PED Plate Decay

=156.52 PED TT (1.15 PED each)

Return % = 67.4%

The graphs below are particularly revealing:

Tests 1&2
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Tests 3&4
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Finally, Skillgains:

In this case since the tests were separated a little, I present the total levels gained in the relevant categories for the combined runs of each setup; As can be seen, it is far from conclusive although the edge again appears to be to the "without attachments" setup :

Professional Standing Laser Sniper(Hit) Gains:
Starting: (40.93)
Without Gains: 0.05
With Gains: 0.03

Skill Gains:
Without - With
Aim - 3 - 5
CR - 1 - 0
IRD - 4 - 3
MMS - 12 - 7
RDA - 18 - 23
Rifle - 3 - 2
WH - 8 - 5
LWT - 6 - 4
Cool - 3 - 4
Seren - 15 - 10
Anat - 1 - 1

Summarising 4000 shots with each setup:

Without Attachments:
Shots: 4000
Misses: 633
Hit %: 84.2%

With Attachments:
Shots: 4000
Misses: 653
Hit %: 83.7

In conclusion, things aren't looking so rosy for sights and scopes at this point. Because of the unknowns, I propose to do a final set of 1000 shots using this setup, then change. My next setup will involve using the gargul on the gun and the abrer on the scope, to see if the location of the better sight is important. I will do 5000 shots in this setup, and another 5000 of the base case to get as much data from that as possible. I will then perform 5000 shots with 2 garguls, to investigate the possibility of different sights reducing efficiency, and after that try 5000 shots with every shot using some of the scope zoom.

This is going to take a lot of time, but hopefully at the end of it, a better understanding will be obtained. What is clear from the tests so far is that full tt attachments alone arent the answer.

 

[Henceforth]

All I can think of is the lasersights have skill modification in return for the decay. Further they dont affect anything at all for using them, otherwise it would be mentioned. If they improved HA it would be readable in the stats of the gun, and if it decreases the HA it would also be. (like armor platings and amps etc.)

you only attach them for the skill mod.

If broken attachments would decrease your stats then broken guns would also do. Like in Oblivion the durability affects the protection/dammage and it is displayed in the health status and mentioned.

as if there isnt already to much being calculated in this game

 

[forgo]

I wonder if the abrer sight is too simple for the skills/gun that it may actually reduce rates.

Could be something like a most beneficial period to use each attachment.

I noticed that aim gained more with attachments, Id guess the gargul was on the sight and not the gun itself.

Could be better results for the other skills with gargul on gun and abrer on sight, or even better garguls on both, since an abrer on an imk2 is in theory anyhow "kinda weak"

Kind of like an oa-107 on a tt finder would be pretty bad, just opposite, could be that only level 3-7 attachements at your skills and gun could be of any good use to you or something like that.

Just a thought anyhow.

 

[RazorFire]

Interesting thoughts. What I may do then is a 2k shot run with the gargul on the imk2 and abrer on the scope rather than do another 1000 with this current setup. I want to try and do as many variants before my HA goes to 4.2 as possible. I will again hunt feffs later, using the new setup and will update this post with the results. Recent posts have been getting unwieldy due to data overload so I will simply give hits/misses and skillgains. People interested in the other data may request more info by PM

 

[Jimmy B]

Interesting test Razorfire....seems if anything your attachments are making things worse

Them poor Corns and Feffs probably learnt a thing or two as well - doubt they've ever been confronted by Shadow, 5B and Imk2 before

 

[Scourge]

Mabey u need to look throught the scope to activate the effect on The scope and its attached lasersight. the crosshair changes to red in the scope if u have a laser sight on it.

 

[Shadowmage]

Well, that has a point what you're saying. I also often think that you have to zoom in to get an effect - sometimes it seems like it is so for me, especially when using my marber. Well, next weekend i'll do some tests about that, but I think to don't get any results in this direction because there wasn't the possibility to zoom in until 1 1/2 months (?) ago.

MFG, Shadowmage

 

[RazorFire]

Apologies in advance for another mammoth posting, but last nights experiments have produced some intriguilng results. Those wanting a short summary should go to the bottom of the post.

Hehe, they don't like the pain of the IMk2 much Against Feffs i generally use ghost+5Bs because shadow is completely ineffectual against them the corns and ambus get the fully kitted out treatment though

2000 shots completed in the latest variation of the tests: This time the gargul was positioned on the gun and the abrer on the scope.

Test #1

HA: 4.1
Location: W of Fury
Mob: Feffoids mainly, a few faucervix and tripudon if they got in my way
Weapon: IMK2, Abrer Sight full TT(on scope), Gargul Sight full TT(on IMK2), Grender Scope full TT. Skillmod: 43.5%
Armour: Ghost +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 2000
Misses: 338
Hit %: 83.10
Mobs Killed: 265

Professional Standing Laser Sniper(Hit) Gains:
Starting: (41.06)
Gain: 0.04

Skill Gains:
Aim - 2; CR - 0;IRD - 10;MMS - 8;RDA - 24;Rifle - 3;WH - 11;LWT - 5;Cool - 7;Seren - 7;Anat - 2

From this, the miss rate is again in the the high 17% region, worse than the no attachments scenario, and comparable with the previous attachment setup at the feffoids. However, the total number of skill level gains achieved in the key areas was 79, higher than those shown in previous tests. Of particular note were the gains in IRD, Rifle, MMS, WH, Coolness and Anatomy. Serendipity was slightly down and all other skills were approximately at the previous level.

To complete the tests with this setup before i obtain a second gargul I will do 1000 at the Cornundacaudas and 1000 at the Amblimax to be entirely consistent. I may then round of the values of each of the categories to 5000 datapoints by hunting argos north of twin. My reasoning for this is that their environment is a lot less cluttered and rocky than the others. I believe this may result in improved hitrates for all 3 categories.

Below I'm going to draw comparison between the skills gained in the 4000 shots of each of the first 2 cases, and then extrapolate the 2000 shots from last night to see what differences are achieved. The results are indeed encouraging

Base Case: Imk2, no attachments:
Observed 4000 shot skillgains:
Aim - 3; CR - 4;IRD - 8;MMS - 19;RDA - 28;Rifle - 4;WH - 14;LWT - 11;Cool - 10;Seren - 27;Anat - 2

Variant1: Imk2, abrer on Imk2, grender, gargul on grender.
Observed 4000 shot skillgains:
Aim - 7; CR - 1;IRD - 6;MMS - 18;RDA - 37;Rifle - 5;WH - 11;LWT - 5;Cool - 7;Seren - 21;Anat - 2

Variant2: Imk2, gargul on Imk2, grender, abrer on grender.
Projected 4000 shot skillgains:
Aim - 4; CR - 0;IRD - 20;MMS - 16;RDA - 48;Rifle - 6;WH - 22;LWT - 10;Cool - 14;Seren - 14;Anat - 4

In Summary

From the data collected to date, although some assumptions and estimations are being made here, the following statements appear to apply:

1) Laser sights and scopes do NOT appear to artificially increase someone's Hit Ability by the skill modification %. Instead some evidence is that a very slight reduction may occur. Results are far from conclusive at this stage.

2) The theory that skill modifier % could REDUCE skillgains has been apparently REFUTED

3) A better laser sight attached to a scope appears to IMPROVE aim skillgains, even if the scope zoom is not used. Sights attached to the gun appear to have no aim skillgain improvement. Forgo's theory appears to have been VALIDATED.

4) The following skills seem to experience INCREASED skillgains with better laser sights on the gun itself. In some cases significantly better gains: IRD, RDA, Rifle, WH, Anatomy.

5) The following skills seem to experience DECREASED skillgains with better laser sights on the gun itself: Marksmanship, Serendipity, Combat Reflexes.

6) The following skills have produced UNCLEAR results: LWT, Coolness.

7) My opinion? for the skillgains alone the attachments are worth it, even if hit % is reduced by 1% (which is far from definitive yet) Subsequent testing will hopefully refine these results to give a clear idea of what to expect from various setups

 

[Henceforth]

Then why are all the skillmod %'s added up by the gun stats?

Simple: all attachments with skillmod increase your skill gain.
not the ammount of skill expirience gains, but the progress to the next point/level. (I.E. if you need 5 gains in rifle to get the next point then with 25% mod you only need 4, you will not get extra gains during the same ammount of shots)

It doesnt matter what skillmod attachment you use, its just about how much decay you are willing to pay per shot for the increase of expirience.

So if you use 2 Gargul Laser Sights and a Hanzor Precision Scope the total skillmodification would be 53% for 0,2520 decay per shot.

nothing more to that.

And the durability status on any equipment has nothing to do with the effectiveness (only the protection on non-(L)-armor)

About the test results where you miss more with near broken attachments, this should be a coincidence, because even with maxed out (L) weapons you miss a shot once in a while with or without attachments.

Maybe to enhance your test you should do test runs with maxed (L) weapons, to narow down the miss rate. Test what you will, but I stick to my simple theory.

 

[dolera]

It doesnt matter what skillmod attachment you use, its just about how much decay you are willing to pay per shot for the increase of expirience.

So if you use 2 Gargul Laser Sights and a Hanzor Precision Scope the total skillmodification would be 53% for 0,2520 decay per shot.

So skilling with BLP guns would go much faster as they decay more Using an ep-38 (with huge decay and low ammo burn) would give much more skills than a mod merc (low decay, high ammo burn)? I tend not to believe this theory. Had you mentioned the total cost/shot, it would be more credible, but still not backed up by evidence (nor, afaik, proven to be wrong)

And the durability status on any equipment has nothing to do with the effectiveness (only the protection on non-(L)-armor)

off topic and most likely not true (WRT armour)

About the test results where you miss more with near broken attachments, this should be a coincidence, because even with maxed out (L) weapons you miss a shot once in a while with or without attachments.

it is a rash assumtion that tt value does not influence performance, especially when backed up with a statement about limited guns, as they're both a different kind of items (guns vs. sights/scopes) and a different class (limited).

Maybe to enhance your test you should do test runs with maxed (L) weapons, to narow down the miss rate.

That has been done earlier in this thread, it turns out that with a 10/10 HA you still mis 9%

Test what you will, but I stick to my simple theory.

had i read this before replying, i had not bothered

 

[Henceforth]

So skilling with BLP guns would go much faster as they decay more Using an ep-38 (with huge decay and low ammo burn) would give much more skills than a mod merc (low decay, high ammo burn)? I tend not to believe this theory. Had you mentioned the total cost/shot, it would be more credible, but still not backed up by evidence (nor, afaik, proven to be wrong)

You miss the point, I was talking about the decay of the ATTACHMENTS. the better sights and scopes have much more decay per shot then the abrer and alekz. So if you want more skillmod you need to buy a more expensive sight/scope. I NEVER talked about decay of the weapon/amp itselve.

off topic and most likely not true (WRT armour)

offtopic: In fact armor DOES protect less when it is more decayed.

it is a rash assumtion that tt value does not influence performance, especially when backed up with a statement about limited guns, as they're both a different kind of items (guns vs. sights/scopes) and a different class (limited).

Again you do not see the point, I was talking about when you apperantly seem to miss shots more often with broken scopes/sights, this cant be tested like that because your HA would make you miss on purpose. So if you shoot with maxed out limmited guns, you would miss less then with a HA 8.0 gun.
BUT even with maxed out limmited guns you also miss, and not only 1 time in 10 shots but also sometimes 3 or 4 times in a row. (thats just MA trying to run you out of ammo before you can kill the mob/or lag)

 

[dolera]

You miss the point, I was talking about the decay of the ATTACHMENTS. the better sights and scopes have much more decay per shot then the abrer and alekz. So if you want more skillmod you need to buy a more expensive sight/scope. I NEVER talked about decay of the weapon/amp itselve.

Yes i missed that point. Nevertheless, i think the decay is adjusted to the skillmod, not vice versa (have a look at skillmod/decay of new and old (pre-gold) sights/scopes and you see what i mean.

offtopic: In fact armor DOES protect less when it is more decayed.

Yes, and this is not what i'm disputing. My remark had all to do with

And the durability status on any equipment has nothing to do with the effectiveness (only the protection on non-(L)-armor)

as it's not the durability, but the % the armour is decayed that is relevant for the protection given.

Again you do not see the point, I was talking about when you apperantly seem to miss shots more often with broken scopes/sights, this cant be tested like that because your HA would make you miss on purpose. So if you shoot with maxed out limmited guns, you would miss less then with a HA 8.0 gun.
BUT even with maxed out limmited guns you also miss, and not only 1 time in 10 shots but also sometimes 3 or 4 times in a row. (thats just MA trying to run you out of ammo before you can kill the mob/or lag)

OK, if i understand you correctly, you say that we cant know if low tt sights affect HA negatively, because you will mis a % of shots, no matter what. Is that correct?
If so, i would hold that it can be tested, especially with a large # of shots, as coincidental misses are filtered out that way.

 

[In Love With]

I've got 2x Terrus 600SE and a Seizzt Ranger 3500 ...

- Could it be that old time lasers and scope have a different effect ?


ILW


PS: I'm happy to lend those 3x items (they are all at full tt) if colleteral is provided for ppl who would like to continue this testing experiment.

 

[dolera]

I've got 2x Terrus 600SE and a Seizzt Ranger 3500 ...

- Could it be that old time lasers and scope have a different effect ?

I doubt, as it wouldnt make much sense to have those working differently

PS: I'm happy to lend those 3x items (they are all at full tt) if colleteral is provided for ppl who would like to continue this testing experiment.

I would love to have the collateral
(and the time to test)

 

[Henceforth]

Yes i missed that point. Nevertheless, i think the decay is adjusted to the skillmod, not vice versa (have a look at skillmod/decay of new and old (pre-gold) sights/scopes and you see what i mean.

I whas not saying the skill mod is linked on the ammount of decay, but the higher skillmod attachments have more decay. So if you want more skillmod you have to pay more in decay. Its just an example, not that it directly means that the more decay get you more skillmod. And the better attachments are also higher in upmark.

So once again:
It doesnt matter what skillmod attachment you use, its just about how much decay you are willing to pay per shot for the increase of expirience.

Thus the better skillmod attachments have higher decay. (or a hell on upmark)

 

[Witte]

I whas not saying the skill mod is linked on the ammount of decay, but the higher skillmod attachments have more decay. So if you want more skillmod you have to pay more in decay. Its just an example, not that it directly means that the more decay get you more skillmod. And the better attachments are also higher in upmark.

So once again:
It doesnt matter what skillmod attachment you use, its just about how much decay you are willing to pay per shot for the increase of expirience.

Thus the better skillmod attachments have higher decay. (or a hell on upmark)

The seizzt and terrus series have lower decay then the crafted attachments at the same or better skillmod.

 

[Henceforth]

but then is the upmark very high

 

[Witte]

but then is the upmark very high

So you are saying that items with high markup give better skillgains

The markup of an item has absolutly no influence on the performance of the item. The otherway around is true though, items that perform better have higher markup in general.

 

[Solaris]

The day we crack the true skillmod (if any) from attachments, will probably also be the day MA gives us a nice new update

However, this thread is good reading. Keeps you wondering. Also makes you wish you had another life to start testing all this


As a sidenote to Witte:
I tested the SIB required on the Prosecutor M15 (L) rifle. It maxed out approximately at level 34. I will try to add this info to the Wiki, but Im a little afraid its not being 100% accurate info.

 

[Henceforth]

So you are saying that items with high markup give better skillgains

The markup of an item has absolutly no influence on the performance of the item. The otherway around is true though, items that perform better have higher markup in general.

sigh*

 

[Doer]

sigh*

I realize you think people are just being flippant but your point is sometimes hard to understand because of ambiguous language. For example, why does the markup of the old crafted scope and amps matter when discussing their effects on skill gains or hunting efficiency? If you would explain yourself a bit more completely perhaps we could have an intelligent discussion about the real point instead of a lot of misunderstandings. I realize that English isn't an easy language; i'm just trying to point out an apparent issue here.

Anyway, the only thing this thread has proved so far is that nothing has been proved regarding scopes and sights. Oh, and that the minimum miss rate for realistic playing conditions is about 9% rather than 8%. We can discuss what it might do or could do but without better data than we have now the discussion will just go around in circles.

 

[Henceforth]

My point is just easy:

Better laser sights/scopes with more skillmod % are eighter high in decay or high in upmark. So if you want more skillgain you have to pay more.
Not that paying more gives you more gain, but more gain cost more.

Is that so hard to understand? maybe I need to draw a picture so even aliens could understand it

 

[Solaris]

So if you want more skillgain you have to pay more.

Whatever markup on any item, dont change the skillmod.
Markups change all the time, but the skillmod will stay the same. Hence is a debate about skillmod comparing markups completely irrelevant.

What this thread is trying to establish, is the relation between skillgain, using attachments or not, and comparing skillmodifications vs decay on different attachements. Markup has nothing to do with all this.

If you are simply trying to say that a highend attachment has higher markup, then yes - you are absolutely right. But are they worth it?

 

[Zib Black Onyx]

what is the bottom line results of this thread?

should we repair attachments to full or use them broken or not use them at all?

 

[RazorFire]

Thats still to be determined, Zib.

Solaris, thinking about it I'm not sure they would change the way sight's and scopes work if we discovered the answer. I actually considered this possibility before deciding to take up the challenge.

What I realised is as follows:

- At this stage of development entropia still holds some mysteries that we are trying to solve, in this way we are still pioneers paving the way for future colonists. Maybe in 10 years time everytrhing will be known. It makes me feel like an early mountaineer or adventurer and I find it exciting that discoveries I may or may not make could contribute to the future knowledge pool that will be taken for granted years into the future

- Clearly the benefits of scopes and sights are out there somewhere, I feel that we are getting closer to the truth but have a way to go.

-Once all the secrets of sights and scopes are revealed, it will actually be to MA's benefit. think about it. If you know for a fact that setup A will increase skills xyz for a specific decay, and that setup B will increase hitrate by i%, then certain combinations of sights and scopes will be purchased more, some will be in demand and result in higher markup. These as have been discussed will provide MA with extra decay revenue, and additional depositing. Until their exact effects are known, some people will refrain from sights and scopes, reducing MA's income.

Back to the testing:

Test #1

HA: 4.1
Location: NE of TI City
Mob: Cornundacauda Alpha to Stalker
Weapon: IMK2 full TT, Abrer Sight full TT(on scope), Gargul Sight full TT(on IMK2), Grender Scope full TT. Skillmod: 43.5%
Armour: Shadow +5B, ADJ Fap

Shots Fired: 1000
Misses: 174
Hit %: 82.60
Mobs Killed: 90

Professional Standing Laser Sniper(Hit) Gains:
Starting: (41.10)
Gain: 0.02

Skill Gains:
Aim - 0; CR - 1;IRD - 2;MMS - 3;RDA - 7;Rifle - 1;WH - 4;LWT - 2;Cool - 2;Seren - 4;Anat - 1

From this, it can be seen that hitrate was even lower, but Comparable with the previous attachment setup missrate for this mob and location. What may eventually come out of these tests is a map of Calypso in which certain areas are highlighted with relevant hitrates. If this theory is correct, then I would expect higher hitrates than achieved so far using this setup when I hunt Ambu at Neas. My expected hitrate there will be between 83.7 and 85%.