FYI: Time for FPC to reclaim the abandoned apartments

[Rumsponge]

FPC should at least release those apartments that are still under their control. There is no good reason that Marcus should still have apartments in his possession.

Unless my memory has completely failed, they have released all of the apartments. Up until a couple years ago, there were hundreds of unpurchased apartments constantly recirculating through the auction. Suddenly, they all disappeared. My understanding was that they were all bought up by some speculator.

Since the estate terminals do not show the owner's name until they actually claim the apartment and pay the first month's rent (I think), all of them still say Marcus Calendar even though they are most likely owned by someone else.

 

[mastermesh]

Since the estate terminals do not show the owner's name until they actually claim the apartment and pay the first month's rent (I think), all of them still say Marcus Calendar even though they are most likely owned by someone else.

I'm not sure they release "all" estates... or maybe they did release all of them that have estate terminals.. There's still a few shops and things that have no estate terminals, so it's highly unlikely anyone owns those. Not sure why MA does not just have the level designers fix up the estates and get the ones that have not been sold yet out there for people to get...

 

[Rumsponge]

{...}
FINAL WINNING BID: TT+556.99
{...}

mystery solved.

 

[LeWolf86]

It is because my shop on CND has a monthly fee that I am not using it.
As there are no customers around on CND I can't make enough profit to pay the fee.

So, the exact opposite, removing fees, would actually increase the activity.

No... it would be worse.... if there were little to no fees then people could do as they do now... sit on em forever.... currently you say there are no customers on CND, and therefore profit cant cover costs.... therefore you should be selling your shop like IRL....

I think a small 10% fee should be paid per month and if shop is open full amount... or 10% fee + % of sales of % of MU or something....

Now not to say your doing it wrong, but if your shop isn't doing well it might be your fault... although Im sure CND is viciously hard to do well with due to shit locations and low traffic....

But people on the ground who close shops and sit on em dont help the economy of EU.... some people like price deals in shops....

Another point, especially for malls... I think Mall owners should be able to evict tenants who dont run a shop after X amount of time... since imagine buying a mall where 5/50 shops were running.... 90% of potential income is reduced...

Anyways... its a lose lose for everyone currently... people wont sell at lower cost... buyers dont want to pay high costs.... users of EU lose by not having options instead of auction.

 

[Pirx Danford]

therefore you should be selling your shop like IRL....

Usually IRL you would be able to rent the shop or apartment out to others.

So before MA performs dispossession of estate property, or even enables other entities like FPC or the mall owners to do such under certain circumstances, there should be at least a rental system for estates available.

At this moment dispossession would just be unfair and borderline illegal.

We could debate about this a bit more after an estate rental system is in place, but I bet you that many shops would be open by shop operators who will have rented them.

 

[mastermesh]

Another point, especially for malls... I think Mall owners should be able to evict tenants who dont run a shop after X amount of time... since imagine buying a mall where 5/50 shops were running.... 90% of potential income is reduced...

agreed... what should have happened is the mall owners should have "rented" the mall shops out to people, or sold them at super high prices and expect the deed back with return of collateral after a while. Unfortunately, people got greedy, and that never happened.

So before MA performs dispossession of estate property, or even enables other entities like FPC or the mall owners to do such under certain circumstances, there should be at least a rental system for estates available.

agreed.. However, it'll never happen because then MA would be responsible for seeing to it that things were returned, making the database even more bloated, and their chances of getting sued or something a lot greater. Far easier to just say all sales are final.

The alternative, which exists now, is that people that bought the estates want to sell them for more then they paid. That does happen now, but not often enough to keep all monthly maintainence fees paid up...

Drop the fees and that won't happen as much, as DeeDee said. The reason the fees are too much to pay for most estate holders is because they try to sell something, but then find they are up against a virtual Wal-Mart that is literally everywhere - the auctioneers. The Brown Coat Mafia, like real world massive corporations, are crushing local businesses.

One Solution to this in game economic crisis would be to either make all auctions local to the city they are in (no more global or off world buying), make auctions local - you have to go there to the individual auctioneer where the auction was started to pick the stuff up if you win - no more instant winnings and pickup.

Another Solution, which is a lot more logical - drop the rent fees, and move towards a % of profits type of maintainence fee - if the shop owner makes no money, MA makes no money. If shop owner is smart and makes tons, so do the LA owners and MA in the form of taxes. This would make the profits more based on what sells and does not sell, not a monthly subscription fee like a lot of other mmorpgs... Then, MA should hire some real business people to tutor and work with the shop owners - give them real world business advice, tips, etc. Maybe even work with them to set up supply deals, etc. LA owners should do that sort of thing, but they don't, just like real world lazy landlords, lol.

 

[DeeDee]

No... it would be worse.... if there were little to no fees then people could do as they do now... sit on em forever.... currently you say there are no customers on CND, and therefore profit cant cover costs.... therefore you should be selling your shop like IRL....

No, I don't want to sell. I want to run a shop.. So I just have to wait until it is possible. Lower fee, more customer and better shop functionality (vs auction).

Entropia works alot different than the real world. Here things are implemented long before they have full functionality, and even sold by MA/FPC without any information how the estate will work or it's future. IE most investments are made for the future, without knowing when and how it will be useable.

 

[Lorespade]

Usually IRL you would be able to rent the shop or apartment out to others.

So before MA performs dispossession of estate property, or even enables other entities like FPC or the mall owners to do such under certain circumstances, there should be at least a rental system for estates available.

At this moment dispossession would just be unfair and borderline illegal.

We could debate about this a bit more after an estate rental system is in place, but I bet you that many shops would be open by shop operators who will have rented them.

I think this is the right course of action.

 

[SpikeBlack]

Another point, especially for malls... I think Mall owners should be able to evict tenants who dont run a shop after X amount of time... since imagine buying a mall where 5/50 shops were running.... 90% of potential income is reduced...

That would only be possible with a rental system where the person running the shop didn't own it. One drawback is that it puts a lot of power in the hands off one person, what if a mall gets sold and the new owner decides to evict everyone and rent only to their friends, where do the evicted shop owners go? to the auctioneer?

Systems to prevent unused shops can easily be worked around, any system we think up will have a loop hole to be exploited. For instance if it were a minimum sales target then the person holding the shop could get a friend to buy enough items or spend enough ped to keep the deed, the only fee being the tax.

For me the Malls were a failure except in generating cash for MA, nice idea but it killed a lot of the other shopping areas which had and still do have plenty of empty shops. They lagged so badly when first implemented that I and many others avoided them, the fews times I've visited one recently the people I've seen have been crowded around crafting machines or at the auctioneers.

Maybe this is a problem with the economy in general rather than specific to shops, two / three years ago we had many street sellers in PA and TP but now it's almost dead in comparison. People are going eco trying keep costs down at which point they no longer go shopping as not many need to replace their gear, so the shops start to fail and so the crafters have fewer places to sell other than the auction.

If you want to see an improvement in the numbers of active shops then we should bitch at MA for screwing up the economy and not to blame the players.

 

[Stutoman]

I think it would be a bad idea. I believe that the price of 500ped for a 120 item appartment is justified. Not so long ago many of the 'investors' who all hold hundreds of apartments are now selling them and the prices are dropping terribly fast.

 

[NotVF]

<removed...>

 

[aridash]

another thought, what would happen if MA came along and reclaimed all the "abandoned" apartments? relist them on auction. then what happens? someone does exactly as before and buys them all up for speculation. back to square one.

 

[fo0d]

another thought, what would happen if MA came along and reclaimed all the "abandoned" apartments? relist them on auction. then what happens? someone does exactly as before and buys them all up for speculation. back to square one.

MA could implement a system that requires you to actually pay the rent of the apartments.

After X months of unpayed rent, ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.

This would stop buyers from eating up all the available houses on EU as it would cost them a lot of PEDs monthly just of rent.

 

[mastermesh]

MA could implement a system that requires you to actually pay the rent of the apartments.

After X months of unpayed rent, ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.

This would stop buyers from eating up all the available houses on EU as it would cost them a lot of PEDs monthly just of rent.

If that is ever done, it should also be put in to the system that ANY ITEM that does not decay at least 12 peds a month will be returned to the loot pool on the 30th day because after all - those items should be making MA money in the form of decay, but they are not if they are sitting in your storage... 12 ped a month should be a justifiable amount since that's the same amount due from estate holders at the estate terminal... MA probably would have already done this if they knew people would not complain about it... so they made the tier system that eats duplicate items to make up for that. Maybe they did not go far enough with making items disappear with that crazy system?

A DEED IS AN ITEM! This item proves "OWNERSHIP". The deed, and accompanying estate are purchased, not rented! The monthly fee is a maintenance fee, not a Rent fee.

The deeds are the ONLY items in game that I know of that actually prove OWNERSHIP of anything in game (even if the EULA disputes that fact). That makes the estate owner more of an owner of the place than that little gun sitting in your inventory proves you own it.

Maybe MA can make a new system that allows mobs to grab your gun or axe as they attack you.... after all that's what real world attackers would do - right? That's what you see in the movies all the time during attack scenes, right? Maybe guns should be lootable in pvp? That'd make it more realistic, right? How about armor parts too, after all they can fall off of you if you get hit hard enough - or maybe they should?

Once a deed is purchased, it should stay in the hands of the buyer until he or she sells...

 

[NightwolfAA2k5]

My appartment has been abandoned since october, my accounts been locked twice during that time in circumstances that are beyond my control. Should I really lose my appartment?

 

[Nikos Eordeus]

Maybe MA can make a new system that allows mobs to grab your gun or axe as they attack you.... after all that's what real world attackers would do - right? That's what you see in the movies all the time during attack scenes, right? Maybe guns should be lootable in pvp? That'd make it more realistic, right? How about armor parts too, after all they can fall off of you if you get hit hard enough - or maybe they should?

Once a deed is purchased, it should stay in the hands of the buyer until he or she sells...

wow a whole new world of posibilities.
just imagine ... pickpocketing skill
we could loot or lose peds or even estate deeds, thats realistic ofc too

 

[fo0d]

Mastermesh, I am not saying it isn't realistic.

I don't really care for realism.

What I believe is that the apartments that are not being used and are not giving MA a revenue should be reintroduced in the system so that new users can take advantage of them.

I really do not want anybody to lose major peds, but I also do not want to see so many estates being owned by a handful of players with no use what so ever.

Few owners, empty apartments, unpaid rents and so on have created ghost towns.

I think the purpose of having hundreds of apartments has been defied the instant that all of them have fallen in the hands of a few, that have chosen to shut them down.

 

[Kemp]

Here we go again...

 

[Chrome]

I think the purpose of having hundreds of apartments has been defied the instant that all of them have fallen in the hands of a few, that have chosen to shut them down.

This is drama at it finest.

• They are NOT all in the hands of a few, there are apartments on sale every day on auction.
  
• They are NOT shut down.
  
• You CAN have one if you choose to pay for it.

Spend time in an auction house in an apartment area, you'll be surprised at the activity in some of them. From personal experience, I can tell you that Sakura City has MANY regulars moving in and out of the auction house daily, it is far from a "ghost town".

 

[mastermesh]

What I believe is that the apartments that are not being used and are not giving MA a revenue should be reintroduced in the system so that new users can take advantage of them.

I really do not want anybody to lose major peds, but I also do not want to see so many estates being owned by a handful of players with no use what so ever.

Few owners, empty apartments, unpaid rents and so on have created ghost towns.

MA NEVER claimed to make money off of monthly apartment fees, as far as I've read... HOWEVER, they do claim to make money on decay... Therefore, why hurt the estate owners? Why not force people to use the items in their storage or inventory?

Obviously, that's not what MA wants otherwise they would not have introduced tons of new storage in the new planets and CND/CP...

I agree, I too want more estate owners to be active, but taking away deeds that were fairly paid for is not the way to do it. The way to do it is simply remove the monthly fee, and move towards a % of profits model on shops and towards some other method of monthly fees on apartments... maybe drop apartment rent to 1 ped a month or lower... or just make them free since the fees currently are not applied fairly really - some people pay nothing (booth owners, hanger owners, etc.), while others pay up to 70 ped a month (in the mall)...

Why not drop it down to no monthly fee since this is suppossed to be a free game, not a subscription game? The way things are currently, it's a subscription game for estate owners, and forcing them to pay will make it only more so... Better option would be drop the monthly fees because a lot of people don't pay them as they can't break even on sales to match the fees due... Make it based on % of profits, and that changes everything...

 

[Xavier_Jr]

The fact that people buy expensive apartments is an investment for them. The current economic recession has forced many people to lose lots of money in MU. Some people have retreated from playing for a while. What do you want here? Comming to game without money and become the property of others? I believe that as in any real economy should not be attack the private investment. If someone wants to buy an apartment, you can do in the auction for its real value.

 

[Kemp]

BTW, if you are personally looking for a nice appartment, check out:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/shops/174518-camelokemp-real-estate-more.html#post2225426

Yes I do resell them. Yes I am trying to make a few bucks. What's the problem? My prices are fair, lower then auction. In the past I helpt people get rid of their appartment for a reasonable, yet rather low price. Also picked up a few underpriced from auction, which you didn't seem to need back then. I sell them mostly with a small profit. Not making prices higher when people in auction ask ridiculous prices, just a reasonable estimate of value.

I, as a Real Estate reseller, try to make this market go round and round. And you dare to critisize me because I hold a few more then I use.

IRL, if I own an appartment, pay some company to maintain it for me while I live there, move to Australia, keep the appartment but don't use that company again, would I be obliged to just hand over my possession to the state?
You frickin' communist!!

 

[mastermesh]

I, as a Real Estate reseller, try to make this market go round and round. And you dare to critisize me because I hold a few more then I use.

Right on! After all, "real estate broker" is a profession...

http://www.planetcalypso.com/guides/social/homes/estates-on-calypso/

There is no limit to the number of estates a single colonist may own, meaning that you may become a true real estate broker if you like. Estate Deeds can be purchased from the auction, or through direct trade with other colonists.

 

[LeWolf86]

If that is ever done, it should also be put in to the system that ANY ITEM that does not decay at least 12 peds a month will be returned to the loot pool on the 30th day because after all - those items should be making MA money in the form of decay, but they are not if they are sitting in your storage... 12 ped a month should be a justifiable amount since that's the same amount due from estate holders at the estate terminal... MA probably would have already done this if they knew people would not complain about it... so they made the tier system that eats duplicate items to make up for that. Maybe they did not go far enough with making items disappear with that crazy system?

A DEED IS AN ITEM! This item proves "OWNERSHIP". The deed, and accompanying estate are purchased, not rented! The monthly fee is a maintenance fee, not a Rent fee.

The deeds are the ONLY items in game that I know of that actually prove OWNERSHIP of anything in game (even if the EULA disputes that fact). That makes the estate owner more of an owner of the place than that little gun sitting in your inventory proves you own it.

Maybe MA can make a new system that allows mobs to grab your gun or axe as they attack you.... after all that's what real world attackers would do - right? That's what you see in the movies all the time during attack scenes, right? Maybe guns should be lootable in pvp? That'd make it more realistic, right? How about armor parts too, after all they can fall off of you if you get hit hard enough - or maybe they should?

Once a deed is purchased, it should stay in the hands of the buyer until he or she sells...

Well I agree on some part.... but its a bit different IMO.... For mega rare items... maybe... although some mega rare items can still be shit due to decay and uselessness.... plus many items are much more common then shops and booths.... Then you've got the fact that most people can own many items... while many people either own 0, a few, or 1 deed.

I understand that its owned... and Im not trying to say... MA should take all deeds away... but really its a pain in the ass that so many deeds are unused... unpaid for (rent)... and overall just being hoarded.... I know there is potentially the same with some items... but generally people who buy the big good guns that aren't doing it for renting are using it themselves frequently for hunting.... most shops + booths are not being used.... If it was just a few then ok... but so many shops/deeds are unused...

I know furniture is fucked atm so theres no incentive right now... but even before VU10 so many were closed.

Maybe MA should make a system where I can break into these closed shops and take anything inside since they stay dark for so long that no one even bother goes in or near them?

 

[LeWolf86]

The fact that people buy expensive apartments is an investment for them. The current economic recession has forced many people to lose lots of money in MU. Some people have retreated from playing for a while. What do you want here? Comming to game without money and become the property of others? I believe that as in any real economy should not be attack the private investment. If someone wants to buy an apartment, you can do in the auction for its real value.

Overall... I guess you can ignore my top one.... its just right now... we have a system where unlike IRL (I know this isn't RL).... there is demand for property... and MA isn't releasing or given hints of releasing more property yet.... so some people have bought them for investment issues... causing a minor freeze as the few who do sell look for what they paid at least or close to.... IRL the demand for more property would cause developers to build more property... but oh well...

 

[Kosh]

I own an apartment on CND, which used to be my storage up there. Now there is storage up there and I see no reason to pay the rent.
I also had a booth that was close to a TP and it got moved far away in VU10.
Should MA take my estates away from me because they changed the game in a way that made me not want to use it?

Taking properties from people who paid for them makes no sense, should they also take the mod-faps from owners who haven't used them for a few months?

What MA should do is add features that will make apartments and shops more useful, and that will stimulate the market. As it is, whats the point of adding more estates if the vast majority of existing ones are not in use?

 

[mastermesh]

but generally people who buy the big good guns that aren't doing it for renting are using it themselves frequently for hunting.... most shops + booths are not being used.... If it was just a few then ok... but so many shops/deeds are unused...

or, they are just putting them in storage because they don't want to pay decay... Broad Sweeping Generalizations about anyone/anything typically are usually fairly incorrect on some level.

there is demand for property... and MA isn't releasing or given hints of releasing more property yet....

Uh, there's a mighty big hint right on their website...
http://www.planetcalypso.com/opportunities/estate-development/

a bunch of booths just showed up at Neas... What else do you want as a hint?!? LA owners are upgrading and that creates sub-estates like booths... If that's not releasing more property, I don't know what is. There's always at least one page of estates on auction these days... some of which has bids, so obviously there is both supply and demand.

 

[LeWolf86]

or, they are just putting them in storage because they don't want to pay decay... Broad Sweeping Generalizations about anyone/anything typically are usually fairly incorrect on some level.



Uh, there's a mighty big hint right on their website...
http://www.planetcalypso.com/opportunities/estate-development/

a bunch of booths just showed up at Neas... What else do you want as a hint?!? LA owners are upgrading and that creates sub-estates like booths... If that's not releasing more property, I don't know what is. There's always at least one page of estates on auction these days... some of which has bids, so obviously there is both supply and demand.

It was a generalization as I dont have any facts, just as you dont when you make a statement based on to many unknowns . But if you had to guess... do you think more shops/booths (not apts thatd be unfair) go unused compared to UL items?

Im not in-game so I didn't know about Nea's :'(.... as for estates.... well I just want shops / booths.

 

[Lerxst]

I own an apartment on CND, which used to be my storage up there. Now there is storage up there and I see no reason to pay the rent.
I also had a booth that was close to a TP and it got moved far away in VU10.
Should MA take my estates away from me because they changed the game in a way that made me not want to use it?

Taking properties from people who paid for them makes no sense, should they also take the mod-faps from owners who haven't used them for a few months?

What MA should do is add features that will make apartments and shops more useful, and that will stimulate the market. As it is, whats the point of adding more estates if the vast majority of existing ones are not in use?

I too have a CND apartment that is about 1/8th worth what I paid for it. I think MA totally screwed anyone that owned an apartment up there and should compensate us for them since they are completely useless now.

 

[Naithen]

From the start they should have been called Condos, you buy it once and then use it for free from that point on .Making players pay rent was just a stupid idea and a cash grab that failed .
If they were Condos players would actually use them and incorporate them into their game play that would increase traffic and interest in the area and increase business for shop owners instead of more ghost towns.When the apartments first came out our society used the apartment to interview new members or hold meetings, theres countless other ways players could have used them but MA always trys to make you pay through the nose for it.In the end our Society got tired of paying for it.