Beta server is REQUIRED now...

The main problem here is that when you have a test server, the live servers economy would crap up.

NetStalker said:

I posted off of the fact your were blasting the idea of a beta test server. There were no other comments that you were refering to when you made this post. I agree that the difficulty of producing such an imense product is daunting at best and i respect the devs and programmers that can do such things. What I dislike is not having the ability to release some basic functions that function as intended.

Beta Test server is a great idea. Period.

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I really don't think a beta test server would have been that much different. I'm pretty sure MA is aware of all these current glitches, bugs and problems. And they are probably working on fixing them. They just released the game early so we could start to explore and have fun, and I like that. And according to most of the poll's quite a chunk of % doesn't mind it either. However alot of you are choked and want to strangle MA with snabble snot trunk.

I said it before and Ill say it again if its that much of a issue for you don't play for a few more weeks and then you can complain if problems still aren't fixed.

The only down advantage right now for people is for people who can't play the game for either A. Their PC wont run it or B. Its eff'd up because of glitches and Nvidia incompatibility.

Those people are just stuck without Entropia for a bit, which sucks! But give it a bit of time.

Tbh, I think this is better, how about if they released a polished VU right away and then all those people find out they cant run it then they are stuck missing "good moments" in the game and having to buy a new pc and deal with that. As for now, you people who aren't playing aren't really missing much and according to your tone your not missing anything but glitches.

As for small bugs/glitches lots were in the last Entropia, I rather take bubbles coming out of my mouth for a few minutes after swimming rather than having no collision on foliage like the last EU.

I know there's much more issues than that but this is the way MA decided to update and I don't mind it, others do. But both parties cant be happy, so lets suck up whatever happens and if they don't fix these issues soon then we have a valid reason to complain until then I don't think alot of this beeching is necessary.

MonkeyCreamy said:

I mean in general half the people making comments have no experiance in the game industy thus imo they should keep their mouth shut. Such as the comment above saying this could have been made by a 14 year old

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Seems most people dont have a clue about testing
And yes there are methods which even 14 year old "testers" could use and would have filtered out some simple bugsssss.

Would love to see the Detailled Test Plan on this VU

Droops said:

Seems most people dont have a clue about testing
And yes there are methods which even 14 year old "testers" could use and would have filtered out some simple bugsssss.

Would love to see the Detailled Test Plan on this VU

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What makes you think that they don't know about these bugs and are already to work on fixing them?. My post above yours (edited + extended upon).

MonkeyCreamy said:

What makes you think that they don't know about these bugs and are already to work on fixing them?. My post above yours (edited + extended upon).

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Okay lets pretend they do, they have already released a known bugs list...

why not include the major bugs that are being discussed now (that you say they new about) when they turned the servers on?

Makes sense to me....Doesnt affect the economy that i cannot run up a hill, But sure as hell would have been nice to know before I went mining and could not get to claims....

Not bitching, just pointing out facts.

MonkeyCreamy said:

I mean in general half the people making comments have no experiance in the game industy thus imo they should keep their mouth shut.

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Every depositers or payers opinion is valid. Dismissing them due to a lack of (in most cases self-proclaimed) experience is BS and eventually leads to losing money, fame and part of the customer base.

NetStalker said:

Okay lets pretend they do, they have already released a known bugs list...

why not include the major bugs that are being discussed now (that you say they new about) when they turned the servers on?

Makes sense to me....Doesnt affect the economy that i cannot run up a hill, But sure as hell would have been nice to know before I went mining and could not get to claims....

Not bitching, just pointing out facts.

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Valid point.

I just still don't see this release that bad, I filmed a video with fraps last night, FPS was good even with fraps running. Ive claimed many mines yesterday didn't have any issues. But I'm sure they are some, the hills are more tricky to walk up (if you can walk up them, usually you have to look for more ways, in New Switz I found it pretty friendly). Just avoid mining by hills in the mean time and let MA know that's really all you can do.

I don't think its unreasonable to say MA should have released it more polished.

But the people saying that we should have never upgraded the engine I think are out of their minds.

MonkeyCreamy said:

Valid point.

I just still don't see this release that bad,

But the people saying that we should have never upgraded the engine I think are out of their minds.

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Both points I agree to wholeheartedly. Like I said, not bitching, just like to be informed.

As to the lag, well Im off to purchase yet again a higher in video card....Maybe I can climb hills then...

During the real beta ma awarded ppl peds for finding very serious bugs. I dont see any reason why they should not be able to set up a beta server and reward ppl for finding bugs etc.

And as for ppl crying wha wha they get an advantage wha wha.. well let them cry.

funny thing

Funny this is brought up, because I was just disgussing this with my mom.

Mindark being that people have already invested money in this game and have lost money from Mindark's bug's, kinks, and Mistakes. They have already made the actual game A beta server.

Look it should simply go like this. Calaypso's lootamania. Every animal and Every Mine hit should have some sort of loot. Even if it is One bullet, at least something will be in the kill/ or hit. This way compensation and tollerance as well as saving their business will be in the works. Even when Mineark knows about the bugs and problems it will take time to fix it. This lootamania should go on for a year, the loot doesnt have to be big just something. This way people wont lose money due to MINDARK mistakes. Maybe if we all suggest this, or advocate for this. Mindark will get the hint.

Finally, I say, I have made a couple of suggestions of my Ideas to Mindark, and I dont think it was unique ideas, or they were very sound ideas because i seen at least in part, some of my wisdom come out of Mindark.


Something must be done though, and I dont think that only a few people should benefit for compensation since we are all suffering from Bugs and kinks.

MonkeyCreamy said:

The only down advantage right now for people is for people who can't play the game for either A. Their PC wont run it or B. Its eff'd up because of glitches and Nvidia incompatibility.

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I am B.. And it sucks.. I have given up for tonight to login. And play for 5 min is a miracle.

I hope they have this "glitch" fixed by tommorow along with some other annoying ones.

But I think its worth the wait. The result in the end will be well worth it. If I can just get some loot

Sub-Zero said:

I am B.. And it sucks.. I have given up for tonight to login. And play for 5 min is a miracle.

I hope they have this "glitch" fixed by tommorow along with some other annoying ones.

But I think its worth the wait. The result in the end will be well worth it. If I can just get some loot

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Sad thing is, I think I'll end up in the same boat as you. I'll keep bitching, but if I get some super-unique SGA item (mod fap, mod merc, adj fap, etc - something NICE) I'd probably shut up in the long run .

Would still be pretty adamant about the test server, though... someone needs to make sure to bring it up EVERY TIME there is a Q&A session, or even just submit a ticket with this thread attached... heh.

If you do not like bugs do not bother playing for a month.

gee, beta server wont happen, and those who wished for an perfekt launch and no bugs. whatever they where smoking I want some too

MA Support said:

Dear Michael,

Thanks for taking the time to submit your suggestions and observations. It is a good idea to wait two weeks for the poll. We are receiving bug reports and mostly are the same ones over and over again, so you may want to give it a little time to report them if you keep encountering. Our design team is currently working on fixing those reported so some of the ones you are encountering may disappear soon..

Feedback from participants is always appreciated. We will forward your comments to our design team for evaluation.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

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They are working on it obviously but as he said and easy logic to suspect from anyone they are beeing flooded by the same mini bagatells over and over again

its in this time from it came live, till atleast a month ish wich is a kind of critical time where you should evaluate, and give constructive feedback on bugs, gameplay and sugestions. screaming for beta servers, complaiing about lag what not has no meaning in this critical time as most knew there would be flaws in the start =)

afterall even MA is only human.

As far as I can tell, Project Entropia, Entropia Universe and now Planet Calypso have ALL been Beta tests for the MA platform.

Nice setup - load test your platform and get the users all to pay you for the privelege.

Sunab Naverith said:

I strongly suggest that FPC do this, and ASAP (well, after the system is stabilized, of course) because it would prevent this from happening again.

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Mika said:

its in this time from it came live, till atleast a month ish wich is a kind of critical time where you should evaluate, and give constructive feedback on bugs, gameplay and sugestions. screaming for beta servers, complaiing about lag what not has no meaning in this critical time as most knew there would be flaws in the start =)

afterall even MA is only human.

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Not screaming at all, m8. Making a valid observational thread regarding a very positive point that FPC needs to address.
(BTW, small bone to nitpick here - WE AREN'T DEALING WITH MINDARK - WE ARE DEALING WITH FIRST PLANET CALYPSO. For years we have said "MA this, MA that, FU MA, MA F'd ME!" etc etc - now they are focusing on the PLATFORM we are working on, true - but it was FPC that is the one to focus on. Hence www.planetcalypso.com being our frontpage, not www.mindark.com .)

I know better than to complain about the lag, it happens almost every VU - that's expected. If I went through though, right now in EU, and played for 1 hour, noting down EVERY single discrepancy that either is just a "little" thing, or even a "big" thing, it'd be a rather large file I'd be sending to FPC. The point I'm making is that IF, we as the community had been able to REALLY TRULY test this before OFFICIAL RELEASE (i.e., the main servers being transferred over to CE2), we could have already have found these bugs, had them squashed, and had a much NICER and SMOOTHER release, with barely even 1/10th of the whining we have seen (and yes, I know how much whining this community is capable of).

Saying up front "beta server wont happen" is as bad as going to work with no expectation of trying to earn a raise from your boss, or going to a bar with no hopes of picking up a girl. If you don't think positive, or at least try to PLAN positive, you won't ascend anywhere in life, be it real or virtual.

I'd rather have this idea submitted continually to FPC until it's stamped in the TOU that there won't be a beta server, ever - OR, we get one....
Rather than to have never submitted it, having been quelled by our own thoughts of self-doubt, and the community itself sharing that concept, that we can't get things to change. FPC screwed the pooch on a *few* things in this VU release. Granted, they are fixing them fast, and are going to finish fixing them, but the level of screwup from this in this release is what I would have expected from software developers who were still having their work graded on a weekly basis. Not from a company with aspirations of becoming a multi-billion dollar corporation, and ushering in the next generation of software platform.

All I've been pointing out is that MA/FPC combined can save a L O T of money if they 'subcontract' beta testing to the very people the product is going to be released to - us. Forget asking us about BALANCING crap. We will always whine about loot, especially after seeing and being in the old PE. But come to us and have us test the FUNCTIONALITY of the very system you want to release to us, that involves REAL MONEY in it's application and entertainment. Otherwise, quite a few of us go elsewhere and spend our money on entertainment in locations/businesses that work smooth and don't burn up video cards...

you realyze you are on the beta server right ?

Agreed.
This vu belongs in a beta server

We are on the beta server. And paying them to test it. So I agree that an official beta was needed. But it's too late now. Got to roll with the punches.

Sunab Naverith said:

(BTW, small bone to nitpick here - WE AREN'T DEALING WITH MINDARK - WE ARE DEALING WITH FIRST PLANET CALYPSO. For years we have said "MA this, MA that, FU MA, MA F'd ME!" etc etc - now they are focusing on the PLATFORM we are working on, true - but it was FPC that is the one to focus on.

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the major issues are with the underlying engine which is handled by MA. FPC would be responsible for "the graphics for extrators are all the same, wtf, sort it out". the problems with climb rate up hills, not being able to run at anything above 1024x768 without stuff going green, BSOD, thats all MA.

How to get rich on a real cash economy

Here's how to get rich in a real cash economy! Yeah! It really works!

1) First, make sure to get them to make a public beta server
2) Worm your way into the team testing this server
3) Go play! Find bugs, report some. VERY important: Keep some that work to your advantage hidden!!!!
4) Wait for the code from the test server to go to the main server
5) Make new account
6) Use new account and the bugs YOU discovered and kept hidden from everyone, to 'make' money while at the same time everybody is wondering what happens to their cash
7) cash out
.... priceless!

Mika said:

If you do not like bugs do not bother playing for a month.

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OH we DO like Bugs only not a bible full of them

Mika said:

If you do not like bugs do not bother playing for a month.

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This is not an answer, and you don't dictate who gets to complain or not.

If you don't like what we have to say, you will just have to deal with it unless the forum admins see fit to take action.

I say you are too forgiving. And I'd be willing to bet some of you don't have a good work ethic as long as you get paid. Some of us like to see things done well.

And the fact that we can stop playing doesn't remove the bugs. The thing that galls is knowing that it wasn't done well, which is still known whether it is played or not.

Sunab Naverith said:

*snip*

And then, the coup de grace of this idea:
Have a per-patch "competition" - 1k peds awarded to the person who submits the MOST UNIQUE AMOUNT OF BUGS FOUND PER VU. This would MAKE the community (who, as a whole, are VERY intelligent and resourceful) actually go into the Beta Server to TRULY "Test" things, rather than just go in there to play around cuz they want to see loot in the window.
This would result in a very large volume of incredibly detailed support tickets on the patch, everything ranging from "Drones don't shoot or make noises, but cause damage" to "I'm breathing bubbles when I hit T from underwater!", or even "Orange and Umber paint cans are too similar in color, need to be marked more clearly" etc etc.


Does anyone else have suggestions to add to this? I'm curious .
*snap*

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This has been tried before in other companies, see examples in literature. The "reward for finding bugs scheme" was stopped after a developer and tester teamed up with a 50/50 deal and jointly implemented and discovered so many bugs they made more than a month's wages each in one single day.

"Tell me how you measure me, and I'll tell you how I behave"

/Slupor

slupor said:

This has been tried before. The "reward for finding bugs scheme" was stopped after a developer and tester teamed up with a 50/50 deal and jointly implemented and discovered so many bugs they made more than a month's wages each in one single day.

"Tell me how you measure me, and I'll tell you how I behave"

/Slupor

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You have a point here.

The thing about testing is you probably don't want people who only do it to get some sort of reward. Not to say testers shouldn't get paid, but it should be a salary if anything... not based on how many bugs they find.

And also, to other people shooting down ideas before they are realized.... you are supposed to try to make things work first and THEN shoot it down if it doesn't work. There are plenty of ways to make a test server that doesn't hurt the economy or give too much information. I think some of you just want to be contrary rather than do a bit of creative problem solving.

For example. They could make a small 'training area' with various objects, buildings, and terrain to test out. It wouldn't have much in common with the game world, the mobs would be different (maybe target drones?) and there's no loot or mining. Nothing could be learned to help players in game.

The value of this would be testing base mechanics and seeing minor bugs, the easy but time consuming part of testing. Then the devs have more time to test more 'secret' things privately, like testing loot or mob damage/resistances or whatever.

slupor said:

This has been tried before. The "reward for finding bugs scheme" was stopped after a developer and tester teamed up with a 50/50 deal and jointly implemented and discovered so many bugs they made more than a month's wages each in one single day.

"Tell me how you measure me, and I'll tell you how I behave"

/Slupor

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And i do wonder where you got that info from, seems it comes out of your hat.

I can see some problems in knowing before hand new bps new items etc but at least for the terrain ffs.

Kerham said:

I can see some problems in knowing before hand new bps new items etc but at least for the terrain ffs.

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Right...

And to add to what I said above, people also need to realize there are different kinds of bugs of different severity.

There are bugs in the engine, bugs in player mechanics, bugs in world mechanics, bugs in the map construction, and so on. You don't make a whole world just to find out that you have lower level bugs. Yeah, some times you have to make the world to find the bugs, but that isn't an excuse to forsake prior low level testing.

Good project management goes a long way to save time and effort, changing it into progress instead of setbacks. It's a good thing MA are not air traffic controllers (those guys already make enough mistakes as it is)

beta-testing was the first i thought too when i launched the new system...
but i quickly changed my mind, this isnt even at a beta-level yet.

its really sad to see so many bugs after SO long testperiod, and the fact taht it was down for over 2 days makes it obvious they didnt invest a cent in new hardware, which is possibly worse than releasing this piece of shit,
sure its fancy graphics but not even the graphic is good enough.
twice i fell throw stones and couldnt get up, not to mention the HUGE amount of ctd and all other things that are totally fucked up, like the way out of sync between shooting and actually hearing the sound.
Invisible mobs is probably one of the other "features" in this pre-alpha-release that we are running around on.

this just pisses me off

slupor said:

This has been tried before. The "reward for finding bugs scheme" was stopped after a developer and tester teamed up with a 50/50 deal and jointly implemented and discovered so many bugs they made more than a month's wages each in one single day.

"Tell me how you measure me, and I'll tell you how I behave"

/Slupor

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Really? Proof please. Else, please stop spreading rumors and lies.

soridus766 said:

This is not an answer, and you don't dictate who gets to complain or not.

If you don't like what we have to say, you will just have to deal with it unless the forum admins see fit to take action.

I say you are too forgiving. And I'd be willing to bet some of you don't have a good work ethic as long as you get paid. Some of us like to see things done well.

And the fact that we can stop playing doesn't remove the bugs. The thing that galls is knowing that it wasn't done well, which is still known whether it is played or not.

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So I can also say What I want about it all now can't I ?

The thing thats to bloody annoying is that everyone seems to and actually belived it would be flawless and 100% working from the start off. thse kind of people are really dragging down the generall fun and gameplay to be quite fair.

these are people unable to give valid and good feedback to FPC\MA, they whine, they moan and bitch and cry for every single littles thing. failing to give good constructive feedback.

I mean just look at the support cases some people posted that they sent to MA\FPC I feel sorry for them over there, lets jst hope they dont go suicidal of it.


let it be said tho that if they could be able to in the future do a thing better make an Public Beta Server or something alike. since 20 - 50ish people wont be able to detect the same ammount of flaws and things as 8000 ~~ would =) and for themself to skim every inch of the planet for misfitting things i kinda surrealistic too. sure theres buildenings middle of towns not fitting and teleports above ground that could have been seen.

but the sheer amount og people whining, unable to search up stuff already answerd moanign about stuff, it is just mindbogling sorry to say but it will drag me down and i am NOT pointing a finger saying the next sentence..

I never really thought some people could actually be this retarded. atleast for someone not stated with a mental or brain damage issue from a doctor, but nomal average people beeing so god damn stupid. how do they cope in real life? I just wonder