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Miss Calypso 2010 FAIL

Freyr

Freyr

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Apr 22, 2005
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Freyr
Before I start I would like to congratulate the winners and thank all the other competitors.
Thank them to let this event look like it was well run/planned, while there was so much wrong.

This wasnt a fashion competition, this was a fashion show.
These were merely 30ish avatars showing their best outfits.
Some of them put alot of time and effort into creating something new, some of them took already existing outfits and maybe just recolored it a little.
But all of them expected to be judged by a jury that knew what they were doing.
Singular said:
A group of well known long term players who have earned their reputation and name will be invited to judge the event
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If you want a fashion competition and not a show, the competitors have to be judged by people that know what they do and see.
Singular said:
Judges were (3 dropped out) Akoz, Camelman and my GF lol
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These were DEFFINATELY not the right persons for the job, nothing against the persons themself, just even the thought of asking to judge.
This while there are so many more people ingame with so much more experience in tailoring, coloring, texturing or just clothes in general.
and you pick these 0.o

There was no third prize, you really didnt get a diploma for that from FPC ? Cause its almost no work for them.
Anyways 30ish competitors and then not even a 3rd prize. a little disapointing.

Wich brings me to the other prizes.
When you think its unfair to give 1st prize so many items (like last year both dress and wand) and second prize just a diploma (or maybe even 3rd too)
Try find another sponsor, I think there would be several options to get something nice to give away.
Instead of just splitting up the 1st prize over two places, now the 2nd place has an item worth more then the 1st place. kinda weird if you ask me.

I sincerely hope the He-Man competition will be handled alot better.
 
Good luck... The war is coming... :D
 
Wasn't there, but I hope He-man is gonna be better then :)
 
You could always host your own beauty event... Who knows? It could become really big.
 
Not sure why, but you left out my name :)

Akoz might not be a known tailorer but iirc he's been the runner up in at least one He-Man (the year Noggin won?) so he's got some history, and I think he's followed the competition up through the years.
I think he's also been judging before?

Camelman and his GF Im not very sure of their histories.

BUT imo, the whole idea is aesthetics and that is of course very subjective.
Now, I have a pretty good knowledge of textures, colors, blueprints and looted/crafted clothing -but I find when judging these shows (Its not my first) I have to separate myself from the knowledge about costs and rarity and rather focus on creativity, color scheme and general appearance. In that aspect, it might be even better to let people not in the fashion scene at all judge a competition.

(And for the record, both AgentPink and RavenJade was on top of my scoreboard, among some others.)

When it comes to the prizes I agree its a bit weird to split them up like that instead of like what was done last year (although there wasnt any 3rd place diploma last year.) Last year however me and Xantonia donated a coat for the 2nd place, if there wasn't any donations of that magnitude this year then I can understand it.
However, Singular have been very specific (in my conversations with him) that Miss C should be about FUN and about the title and the passion more then any actual prize.
 
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I came 3rd last year and didn't get anything from MA. I got a forum upgrade from 711 though :)
 
Skam said:
Not sure why, but you left out my name :)

(And for the record, both AgentPink and RavenJade was on top of my scoreboard, among some others.)
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left your name out cause i didnt read it as you were also in jury,. yet it doesnt change my total view of the jury (sry akoz, nothing personal)
I nowhere said it wasnt a fair win,. i have nothing with the winners,. just the way they were judged ;)

dont want my own fashion event gluepot,. had enough shit (can i say that, lol never post) when i was in CND jury >.<

my bad then there nadie,. i for a year understood there were 3 diploma's,. might also be a good thing to list prices in advance (not what, but wich 1,2, maybe 3)
there was alot of confusion there,. when there were 2 misses announced
 
I agree 100% with what you wrote Freyr.

Have nothing against the winners or there outfits or and other outfit (and some were amazing) or the judges, but the competition should have been judged by people who actually know something about textures, colors and levels needed to do certain things. By people who deal with this things on a daily basis.

Not just people who can say: Oh yeah, this is a nice color. And then can't say anything else, cause they are not from the profession needed to judge an event like this. And like Freyr said there is a lot of people ingame more qualified to judge than the judges were.

Plus it is not fair to the contestants, cause a lot of them worked really hard and spend a lot of peds and hours on their outfits and then being not judged properly and professionally. If it bothers me and I wasn't a contestant, I'm sure it bothers them even more.
 
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Summer said:
Not just people who can say: Oh yeah, this is a nice color. And then can't say anything else, cause they are not from the profession needed to judge an event like this. And like Freyr said there is a lot of people ingame more qualified to judge than the judges were.
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I gotta say I disagree with you. I think it'd be sad if the competition would be handled with people within the business, within the profession. I'm sorry but if the jury would have been 4 people who are colorers/texturers and tailorers and the winning outfits had been expensive colors and expensive markup-clothing, its easy that someone would make complaints that you'd judge on the cost and not the aesthetics -that'd be in your favor as a businessperson.

I know you probably don't see it like this, but people who are working in it wouldn't really be seen as objective :)

Plus, I don't think people who don't work with it necessarily means they are unqualified. ;) IRL we have designers and stylists, fashion icons and fashion knowledgeable people (writing for magazines etc.). Knowledge isn't confined in only one area.
 
It's kind of like some of those Talent reality shows, where they just get some celebrity judge like David Hasselhof or something... I don't really get if they know anything about talent or not...

Not that I would Hassel the HoFF :silly2: just saying
 
Skam said:
I gotta say I disagree with you. I think it'd be sad if the competition would be handled with people within the business, within the profession. I'm sorry but if the jury would have been 4 people who are colorers/texturers and tailorers and the winning outfits had been expensive colors and expensive markup-clothing, its easy that someone would make complaints that you'd judge on the cost and not the aesthetics -that'd be in your favor as a businessperson.

I know you probably don't see it like this, but people who are working in it wouldn't really be seen as objective :)

Plus, I don't think people who work with it necessarily means they are unqualified. ;) IRL we have designers and stylists, fashion icons and fashion knowledgeable people (writing for magazines etc.). Knowledge isn't confined in only one area.
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Also, inevitably some of the clothes on show would have been made or customised by those people, which would probably lead to accusations of bias, no matter how impartial the judges are in reality.
 
;)
Nadie said:
I came 3rd last year and didn't get anything from MA. I got a forum upgrade from 711 though :)
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I came in second last year and got the diploma, the forum upgrade and I think it was Xantonia and Skam who donated a nice coat. The forum upgrade and coat were very nice ;)!!

I didnt attend this year so can't comment on too much, but I totally agree with Freyr on the prizes. With 30 entered I would think the third prize would be warranted. I also wondered why the wand/club would be second prize instead of first? IMO it has a lot more value and honestly I would have been a little pissed if I was first and got the dress instead of the wand, but then again my primary passion in EU is hunting not clothes :eek:.

But hey, this all comes down to opinions, we all have our own and ultimately whoever holds the event can set their own rules/prizes. On that note I'd say what really might have been missing was an advanced description of how many places would be handed out and what the prizes were, that is fairly common in most events and that way the potential entrant can make a decision on whether or not they think its worth entering.

By the way, what happened to the MA judges this year? Since they are sponsoring the event I expected to see them represented again this year.

Gratz to the winners and other entrants for their hard work :clap:


Lexi
 
jomarigsd said:
By the way, what happened to the MA judges this year? Since they are sponsoring the event I expected to see them represented again this year.
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Last year (I helped Singular organize the event since he has some business to attend to IRL) I specifically asked Emma & Simon if they could show up as judges. They didn't insist on it from their side, so if they weren't asked again this year I assume thats why. ;)

(it was Me & Xantonia on behalf of the Rabbids society that donated the coat btw ;) )
 
How did the judging work? rating each contest from 1/10? on each outfit? then adding up the scores?

or was it just, each judge picked a favorite? and with 4 judges, what was done if tied? since that is an even number...
 
Skam said:
I gotta say I disagree with you. I think it'd be sad if the competition would be handled with people within the business, within the profession. I'm sorry but if the jury would have been 4 people who are colorers/texturers and tailorers and the winning outfits had been expensive colors and expensive markup-clothing, its easy that someone would make complaints that you'd judge on the cost and not the aesthetics -that'd be in your favor as a businessperson.

I know you probably don't see it like this, but people who are working in it wouldn't really be seen as objective :)

Plus, I don't think people who work with it necessarily means they are unqualified. ;) IRL we have designers and stylists, fashion icons and fashion knowledgeable people (writing for magazines etc.). Knowledge isn't confined in only one area.
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Well I do agree with you to a certain point - like you say that the jury should not be made from professionals, I think its should not be all from "amateurs". Cause you were the only one qualified to even be a judge.

And just like you think all an professional jury wouldn't be objective I think an all "amateur" can't be objective as well.
:)

If I see a nice outfit I wont judge it by the materials and the cost to make it. If its nice its nice, no matter if the texture on it is a lv5 or lv50. :)
 
Skam said:
I gotta say I disagree with you. I think it'd be sad if the competition would be handled with people within the business, within the profession. I'm sorry but if the jury would have been 4 people who are colorers/texturers and tailorers and the winning outfits had been expensive colors and expensive markup-clothing
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sry Skam,. have to laugh a little here,.
a BLACK dress won ;)
 
Freyr said:
sry Skam,. have to laugh a little here,.
a BLACK dress won ;)
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No, RavenJade in a Black Dress won. ;)

But I fail to see your point. I didn't claim that expensive clothing should be eliminated from the competition. I said if the jury was people within the profession it could be challenged as bias.

None of the people in the jury afaik trade in clothing.
 
Well the judges always use opinion. Except for the law types ;) .

What makes one fashion judge more qualified then the next? I'll tell you, it's who they know or influence. People give critics the power.
 
Digit said:
Well the judges always use opinion. Except for the law types ;) .

What makes one fashion judge more qualified then the next? I'll tell you, it's who they know or influence. People give critics the power.
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I would think that people with the following kinds attributes would be the right kind of material for a fashion judge:

Very familiar with ALL looted, TT, and crafted cloths
Very familiar with textures and colors
Very good and a natural fashion and color matching sense
Very good understanding of the rarity of cloths, colors, and textures
The ability to look at an avatar's clothing and at a glance know each clothing/armor type by name and be able to identify the colors and textures used

There are only a very small handful of people in EU with all of the above abilities/attributes.
 
Isnt this something we could trust someone from MA/FPC to be impartial enough to actually judge themselves?

And on the prizes I have to say I was a little surprised with 1st and 2nd's gifts tbh.
Perhaps I'm missing something but I thought the sceptre was an obvious 1st prize and the the dress 2nd prize.Kinda like RL were the winner gets the crown and second gets the flowers.I understand the dress was unique but the crown/sceptre/sash always goes to first.
 
gratz to the winners but i so agree with Freyr the whole thing could have been handled a lot better with prizes and judges, i wasnt there for the show but i have herd a lot bout it.

there was a lot of great outfits there and i know some spent a lot of time working on getting the paint and texture ready in time, there were some that did stand out more then others and most of them were the one's that had all the textures and different colors, i think raven jade is a great person, but just because she had the black dress i get the feeling the judges picked her.
the dress was plan little texture the only reason it stranded out to the judges was for the fact it was BLACK.

there was other outfits there that had more thought put into them and you could see this from the great textures that was on them.

back to the prizes maybe next year they should look into getting things that even it out and make it for 1st, 2nd and 3rd not just 1st and 2nd and also try and make sure that 2nd or 3rds prize dont cost more then 1st.

Judge: they were ment to be well known people i didnt know any of them, and yes i think they should know a lot bout the clothing and fashion in game to make it a lot more fair, there are some great fashion designers in game and not 1 of them got asked to be a judge so if you want a good fair show next year maybe think about asking them as they no what to look for and are not going to pick the dress that cost the most or looks uber just because its black...
 
It can't be judged by the players in the coloring/texturing prof!! Who will they pick to win hmmm, might be one of their outfits to help promote their own trade in the future?

I say next year hold an open pole as to who would apply to be judges compile the list and then host an on line vote here as to who will be the judges. This way the EU community can pick the judges and not someone picking their buddies who will chose their friends as winners.

Congrats to the winners by the way :)

Even though their should have only been 1 winner!!!! With Dress and scepter
 
MoFo said:
there were some that did stand out more then others and most of them were the one's that had all the textures and different colors, i think raven jade is a great person, but just because she had the black dress i get the feeling the judges picked her.
the dress was plan little texture the only reason it stranded out to the judges was for the fact it was BLACK.

there was other outfits there that had more thought put into them and you could see this from the great textures that was on them.
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So what if it had little or no texture and was black? Last year when I took part I didn't wear a single textured item as I'm not a huge fan of them. Yes, I have a small selection of textured stuff but the majority of mine is plain coloured which I prefer. Of course textures can look very nice if combined/coloured right but they still aren't to everyones tastes. I would like to think that the winner wasn't just picked on one outfit but judged on all three.

I also don't see why all the judges need to have experience in texturing and colouring levels to know what looks good. There are a lot of people in game with very good dress sense who have never tried to do it themselves. Maybe have a mixture of judges: one that prefers textures, one that prefers plain colours, one that's skilled/knowledgeable in both professions but not providing a public service and one that just has good dress sense but doesn't partake in those professions. This should then cover all entrants taking part fairly and then maybe have a 5th judge on standby from MA so that in the event of a tie they give the final decision.
 
Reactions like these are probably one of the main reasons why hosting proper events aren't more popular.
Here some adventurous and selfless people go and try to organize a cool fun fashion show (doesn't have to be a fashion show, any event will do) and they are guaranteed to get bashed by some (often the same) people.
In a situation like this, if you are not happy, dont enter or try to do better. Dont make it a habit to complain about the choice of judges.
There are not that many fashion competitions in EU and now I understand why.

On a side note. Its not allways the best to only have the most knowlegable people in a jury because they sometimes have a tendency to judge according to the difficulty and cost of manufacturing instead of the result and that just screws everything upp.
 
Freyr isn’t just any random person who is bitching.

He is one of the highest profile people in the fashion world of EU.

Freyr complaining about a fashion event is akin to one of the top hunters in game complaining about a major hunting event. That means you don’t easily dismiss his argument as a tantrum from a random person who doesn’t know that they are talking about.
 
HardWrath said:
Freyr isn’t just any random person who is bitching.

He is one of the highest profile people in the fashion world of EU.

Freyr complaining about a fashion event is akin to one of the top hunters in game complaining about a major hunting event. That means you don’t easily dismiss his argument as a tantrum from a random person who doesn’t know that they are talking about.
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That may be but that doesn't change my opinion about the complaint.
Are the judges being paid to judge?
Are they judging in favour of a certain person and not being impartial?


Seriously. Are you saying that I can never hold a hunting event where i judge who has the most fun kills just because I am not tha best in my profession?

When it comes to contests where there isn't a numerical resault to judge there will allways be complaints. So the only way to stop the whining after them is to skipp them alltogether and noone wants that so I say again.

If you are not happy with an event, ignore it or try doing better.
 
roughrider said:
That may be but that doesn't change my opinion about the complaint.
Are the judges being paid to judge?
Are they judging in favour of a certain person and not being impartial?


Seriously. Are you saying that I can never hold a hunting event where i judge who has the most fun kills just because I am not tha best in my profession?

When it comes to contests where there isn't a numerical resault to judge there will allways be complaints. So the only way to stop the whining after them is to skipp them alltogether and noone wants that so I say again.

If you are not happy with an event, ignore it or try doing better.
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Because this is an offical event of sorts, it changes things a bit

Its Miss Caylpso, not a random event
 
ahh the judges...

(sry just had to "pull a McCormick" :laugh:)

Honestly I understand there might be a situation where 3 judges pullback.
Worstcase can happen.
Anyways I would be happy if the event had backup so that theres atleast 5 judges present. Even 1 official MA staff would show nice in the group.
 
HardWrath said:
Because this is an offical event of sorts, it changes things a bit

Its Miss Caylpso, not a random event
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Perhaps that's the problem, from what i read no one from MA even bothered to rock up and they gave bugger all as prizes. A dress and 1 sceptre and a diploma?

People get off there arse to make events and thats all they can do to help them out.

Try a sash , dress & shoes for 1st, 2nd, & 3rd with the winner also recieving a sceptre and crown and all participants get a certificate for taking part, that would cost MA nothing they make the stuff themselves for godsakes.

Then even one of these Marco , Frank, David or atleast someone from FPC is a guest judge and show their support for people working on making THEIR game better, its a semi official event with MA's logo on the poster and they cant be bothered to turn up.

Pissweak effort MA, support these players who are trying to offer people some fun in the game or i tell you now you wont have anyone in your damn game.
 
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