Are mobtrains against the EULA?

[IceBitchBaby]

Generally mob trains are allowed.

BUT, if the purpose is only to cause grief then it is not. Like "Haha, you loser, I steal all your mobs just to piss you off!" *insert Nelson "ha-ha"*

There is always a fine balance.

I win.

Thanks Marco

 

[Vixen Cyblade]

Generally mob trains are allowed.

BUT, if the purpose is only to cause grief then it is not. Like "Haha, you loser, I steal all your mobs just to piss you off!" *insert Nelson "ha-ha"*

There is always a fine balance.

Kewl train away

 

[Marco|SDS]

So how would this be interpreted in PVP situations? By definition they're used to "cause your opponent grief" in an attempt to kill them. However PVP seems one of the more useful places to make a train.

A PvP zone is kinda "all bets are off". But still, it is not allowed to ABUSE another participant just because it is PvP. On the other hand, PvP is a place where you always risk getting killed, so that in itself is not abuse.

 

[Joker]

A PvP zone is kinda "all bets are off". But still, it is not allowed to ABUSE another participant just because it is PvP. On the other hand, PvP is a place where you always risk getting killed, so that in itself is not abuse.

so mob trains in pvp are legal woot!

thank you for speaking Marco

 

[SnowLeopard]

A PvP zone is kinda "all bets are off". But still, it is not allowed to ABUSE another participant just because it is PvP. On the other hand, PvP is a place where you always risk getting killed, so that in itself is not abuse.

So a mob train can be considered a legitimate PVP weapon.

 

[Joker]

Generally mob trains are allowed.

BUT, if the purpose is only to cause grief then it is not. Like "Haha, you loser, I steal all your mobs just to piss you off!" *insert Nelson "ha-ha"*

There is always a fine balance.

agreed thank you again for speaking

 

[BlackHawk]

Generally mob trains are allowed.

BUT, if the purpose is only to cause grief then it is not. Like "Haha, you loser, I steal all your mobs just to piss you off!" *insert Nelson "ha-ha"*

There is always a fine balance.

How can you make a difference? All mob trains cause grief if you hear about them... So that means that all mob trains that are not reported are allowed, and those who get reported are not? Because, ofc, if they get reported, they must have caused grief...

I think it would be nice to put a side the "fine balancing" and just say yes or no. In fact it would be appreciated. I hear people get locked for running bots around Jason. Most do it for fun not to cause grief. But still.. there are over sensitive people out there.

I so hate it when you give answers that are not really answers because they can mean whatever you want depending on whatever you want them to mean.

 

[BlackHawk]

A PvP zone is kinda "all bets are off". But still, it is not allowed to ABUSE another participant just because it is PvP. On the other hand, PvP is a place where you always risk getting killed, so that in itself is not abuse.

Why is it not allowed for the abused and his friends to deal with the abuser? After all, it can be a lot more fun than getting tons of supports about something that needs to be investigated, and you only have the "victim" side of the story anyway.

 

[mojorisin]

So a mob train can be considered a legitimate PVP weapon.

Legitimate.. maybe.. GHEY ..definetly! It doesnt rly matter what the rules say IMO. If you do it and it makes you feel like a pansey assed lil girl... than I guess you shouldnt be doing it

Really guys.. cmon. I will be the first one to say that I suck at pvp in this game but I have never..ever... mob trained to save my ass. AND I AM A PANSEY ASSED GIRL!

IMO.. grow a pair and eat it when you lose or go get more friends to take on your opponent.

 

[Skam]

As I suspected. Thanks for confirming Marco!

AND I AM A PANSEY ASSED GIRL!

SAY IT OUT LOUD! Im a pansy assed girl and IM PROUD! \o/

 

[JohnCapital]

I think it would be nice to put a side the "fine balancing" and just say yes or no.

Frankly, I interpret his comment to mean "It depends on the situation" which is a standard, and frankly good, position to take.

 

[Charlie Gloom]

Frankly, I interpret his comment to mean "It depends on the situation" which is a standard, and frankly good, position to take.

which can also mean a ban for you but not for the other person that did it before you. depending on the interpretation or who you did it too or nearby.

 

[JohnCapital]

True, some cases will get a pass, and similar ones may be punished.

Can you truly detail a set of rules for mob training that, including PVP battles, where folks often die and re-enter the battle multiple times, would follow all these criteria?

• Be easy to understand
• Be easy for MA/FPC to investigate
• Be difficult for jerks to circumvent

I understand some folks want Marco to lay down a strict guideline but I think him saying "trains are fine as long as you don't abuse the privilege" is the best we can hope for. It's much better than "don't mob-train ever." I'm quite happy w/ his responses.

 

[BlackHawk]

True, some cases will get a pass, and similar ones may be punished.

Can you truly detail a set of rules for mob training that, including PVP battles, where folks often die and re-enter the battle multiple times, would follow all these criteria?

• Be easy to understand
• Be easy for MA/FPC to investigate
• Be difficult for jerks to circumvent

I understand some folks want Marco to lay down a strict guideline but I think him saying "trains are fine as long as you don't abuse the privilege" is the best we can hope for. It's much better than "don't mob-train ever." I'm quite happy w/ his responses.

I would be too if his name would not be Marco but Obama and would run for president in a country that is not mine, giving answers about things taht have nothing to do with me. I would say "nice PR and diplomacy".

Having rules that apply only when they want to who they want creates frustration in community. It always did. And this type of non answers, does exactly that. Because it does not say "we allow it" or "we don't". Is says "we do whatever we want and is nothing you can do about it".

 

[Tekkie]

Generally mob trains are allowed.

BUT, if the purpose is only to cause grief then it is not. Like "Haha, you loser, I steal all your mobs just to piss you off!" *insert Nelson "ha-ha"*

There is always a fine balance.

I really think there should be rules in normal areas but not pvp areas, it just becomes complicated then with too many grey areas, and anybody can take screenshots and twist a story or get mates to all send in screens with intention of banning a person..... MA dont know if the very same people who report were actually dragging mobs in 30 mins earlier, all they read is the screenshots and support cases.

Very grey and in all honesty with the investments some players have made not a very secure system should a group of people decide they want to get them banned.

Is it no longer an advantage to have UL armour in PvP? Guns, Armour, Dodge, Faps.... they all make up a good pk setup, its called playing the game to your advantage.

Please MA, you are making life hard for yourself for no reason. Make the rule in pvp areas anything goes.... then we all know where we stand.

 

[Skam]

I suspect that it would take alot for someone to get banned for such an offense, because of the reasons Tekkie already mentioned (word against word). I suspect that you'd have to had a couple of earlier 'fouls' if you were to get anything harsher then a warning for mob-training.

Personally Im satisfied with the answer. If you want to simplify the answer I think it can be said as it is allowed, but as mostly everything that can have a negative impact on someone else, if you abuse the possibility to do so in an extreme fashion (over perhaps a long period of time) then you'd face consequenses.

 

[DoubleWolf]

I really think there should be rules in normal areas

But I think coming up with those rules is going to be very tough. How do you differentiate between someone running a mob train on people and someone just running through an area trying to get to the next teleport for example, and just happens to get a few mobs aggro'd enough to give chase?

I agree with your point about PvP though. The nature of that area is kind of cutthroat anyways. It really should just be a free for all...

 

[Tekkie]

But I think coming up with those rules is going to be very tough. How do you differentiate between someone running a mob train on people and someone just running through an area trying to get to the next teleport for example, and just happens to get a few mobs aggro'd enough to give chase?

I agree with your point about PvP though. The nature of that area is kind of cutthroat anyways. It really should just be a free for all...

Just apply what Marco has said to normal areas because it really doesnt happen that often enough to annoy people. In pvp things get alot more personal, tempers get raised and things get out of hand (although they really shouldnt).

Rename PvP areas, Lawless Zones. Problem solved.

 

[Ancient]

But I think coming up with those rules is going to be very tough. How do you differentiate between someone running a mob train on people and someone just running through an area trying to get to the next teleport for example, and just happens to get a few mobs aggro'd enough to give chase?

I agree with your point about PvP though. The nature of that area is kind of cutthroat anyways. It really should just be a free for all...

Well mob training is ok if you only do it once. But if it is done repeatedly, then it is wrong.

 

[Tekkie]

Well mob training is ok if you only do it once. But if it is done repeatedly, then it is wrong.

Personally I have never done it, but. Rules need to be clear. The reason it seems the last guy was banned was because he came in with mobs and the reporters had (L) pk gear on and they didnt like expensive (L) gera being chewed on by Atrox.

Im not saying thats right or wrong, what im saying is thats a tactic, he used his gear, skills and mobs in the area in conflict to get an advantage.

No its not a good thing, just like killing somebody who is in the process of killing a mob and gets pk'd..... but we are in a well known area that this can happen.

Rules should be clear, then nobody can complain. If I see you in shadow, ill shoot blp, if I know you have low hp ill use rockets, if you wear sala ill use blp.... if your wearing high decay armour - why not drag in some mobs?

If I see a guy hof in pvp3 and tell him in open chat i wont kill him so he starts dragging the stuff out and become so heavy he cant even move - would it be wrong to kill him once he is fully loaded..... its bad form but I dont think against the rules as its a pvp area.

 

[Joker]

Personally I have never done it, but. Rules need to be clear. The reason it seems the last guy was banned was because he came in with mobs and the reporters had (L) pk gear on and they didnt like expensive (L) gera being chewed on by Atrox.

Im not saying thats right or wrong, what im saying is thats a tactic, he used his gear, skills and mobs in the area in conflict to get an advantage.

No its not a good thing, just like killing somebody who is in the process of killing a mob and gets pk'd..... but we are in a well known area that this can happen.

Rules should be clear, then nobody can complain. If I see you in shadow, ill shoot blp, if I know you have low hp ill use rockets, if you wear sala ill use blp.... if your wearing high decay armour - why not drag in some mobs?

If I see a guy hof in pvp3 and tell him in open chat i wont kill him so he starts dragging the stuff out and become so heavy he cant even move - would it be wrong to kill him once he is fully loaded..... its bad form but I dont think against the rules as its a pvp area.

clear rules would be great... i think i might go do a train once every day at random... it seems with in the rules... just as long as i dont do it repeatedly to the same person...


training mobs... say at the rig... if i want a nice amount of atrox... should cost around 20-35 peds in shadow + 5bs... basiclly throwing money away...

i probably wont train people since i got better shit to do... but if i were to that would be legal correct?

 

[Konve]

A PvP zone is kinda "all bets are off". But still, it is not allowed to ABUSE another participant just because it is PvP. On the other hand, PvP is a place where you always risk getting killed, so that in itself is not abuse.

But in a man hunt - the only rule is; There are no rules. And who wins if an atrox kills the target?


I think I should get some sleep now.

 

[Mega]

Ok, I haven't read all 232 replies but I used to play Eve and so this is how I see it:

Inside PVP - you're on your own and mob trains ARE legal. Players want you dead, and will try and accomplish this in various ways.

Outside PVP - be respectful of other players, or they will remember your name and f*** your game up next time they meet you.

 

[Mercury]

I think Marco's answer is perfect. I understand what it is like to be constantly reported for every little thing you do (right or wrong). MA is very careful to not just take 5 people reporting someone and lock that person indefinitely without taking into account the circumstances. They may lock you temporarily but will review what happened and unlock you immediately after they determine your innocence (yes I know this from experience).

They still have to account for the possibility of an asshole trying to ruin someone's day by repeatedly mobtraining them to ruin their hunt. So I'd read Marco's post as:

Mobtrains are legal just don't try to ruin someone's day or make rude comments while doing the trains. Don't repeat it multiple times (more than 2 in one area per day seems excessive). In PVP it seems like it is ok as long as you aren't being disrespectful while doing the trains.

I really wasn't sure that this post would get an answer but I suppose the video helped get some interest with 7,000 + views. Thanks Marco!

 

[SnowLeopard]

I really wasn't sure that this post would get an answer but I suppose the video helped get some interest with 7,000 + views. Thanks Marco!

It's a long thread and I'm sure not everyone will realize Marco did comment... might be a good idea to update the first post and link to Marco's posts (#1 and #2)

 

[gickstery]

as most ppl who posted at the end, i haven't read every single post.

imo, pvp zones are free for all, anything goes, highest skilled/equipped players rule. if you dont want to get killed, then dont go in!

also, i use mob trains all the time. it's simply my way of hunting, as it makes entropia a little more fun. i try to do it either when there aren't that many ppl around or if there is a huge spawn of mobs. and i particularly do it on low lvl mobs, otherwise i die really really fast. ^.^

I rarely, if ever, run them into crowded towns or locations. i see people do it all the time and know it's just to have some fun. if it's crowded enough, the ppl there can kill them off in an instant. as for the people who hate it when other people do that, you need to learn to have some fun in entropia instead of clicking away at the manurfacturing terminal all day.

When someone purposefully runs a mob train into another person over and over again just do annoy them, that's wrong. however, there is a difference between that and someone passing by, who is most likely on a tp run, happens to collect a few mobs and runs behind you with a fap out. if that happens to me, i just finish up what im doing at that moment and kill the mobs for them and then thank them, as they have offered me a free fapping service and saved me time by tagging mobs.

keep in mind that i am an insane optimist.


That's just my 2 pec

 

[Brooklyn]

Thanks Marco for releasing this horde of maladjusted misfits from any thought of restraint... other than a vow of silence

That is the problem Blackhawk....​

as we see by their self serving posts here... they have no regrets or interest in restraining in the least... what they do intentionally to harrass others.... only the endless rationalizations of their unconcern for others and needs to express it... it seems very doubtful that they will be concerned about their reputations or the thoughts of others concerning it... That is why it is important for those with the authority and reponsibilty... for ensuring that all can enjoy living here.... to be clear and firm in setting the official tone publically... and merciful in balancing the official response privately... unforturnately the official public part took a turn for the worst...

As far as the agro issue... it's easy enough to avoid... as soon as you see a green dot at the edge of your radar immediately turn left and find another route where there are no other players... after all the train is your problem to solve "alone" without interferring with the play of others...

It's this basic respect for other players that IMHO is what's lacking in many of the reponses here... especailly those claims that others are just being over sensitive and should just learn to accept it... as part of life... that is the goal of all crimminal minds... to get others to ignore or even better accept their anti-social behaviors... as a normal part of the world... both here and in IRL...

"We get the world we accept"
A very wise, old hippie, turned policeman once told me​

 

[BlackHawk]

No Brooklin, what you don't understand is that I don't care about mob trains. I never do that anyway. If I do it is an accident. So is not about me or those like me that want to be jerks and get away with it. Is about the fact that we need clear rules. We need to know EXACTLY what is allowed and what is not, and if something is not stated, they can't unlock your account.

In my opinion an account should not be locked because using EU as is, like EULA states. And mob trains just use EU as is. People that have a problem with that, they just need to solve it with in game tools. PvP, society, mercenaries and so on. But I said that before.


Not having clear rules whith what you can do and can not do is bad.


My posts focused on those 2 main aspects:

1. Rules must be clear.
2. Mob trains should not be against rules. For any reason. Anywhere. EU is big enough for you to go someplace else if you don't like someone game style.

 

[Igorl]

I voted in PvP - NO

I think if u bring those to PA and take advantage of poorly placed turrets, therefore disabling PA for several hours (since 99.9% of ppl there cant even take 1 hit from a stalker spider, let alone kill it) - it harrasement and should be repremaded and sanctioned if repeated. Repeated revive kills from a MOB are annoying.

If you bring those to the place which isnt in reach of revivals - you kill ppl there once and it may be considered a tactics to get rid of unwanted visitors. If someone finds that disturbing - he/she should avoid the place till the MOBs are gone. Simple as that.

That line of EULA ure mentioning is vague and could be interpreted in 1000 ways (its one of those lines which tells you - MA can screw you over and out anytime anywhere and u can do nothing about it, there are several of that sort if u actually read whole text of EULA).

I.

 

[Brooklyn]

Not having clear rules whith what you can do and can not do is bad.


My posts focused on those 2 main aspects:

1. Rules must be clear.
2. Mob trains should not be against rules. For any reason. Anywhere. EU is big enough for you to go someplace else if you don't like someone game style.

1. I'm advocating for a clear rule... that Mob training that disrupts game the play of others... should be clearly defined as not acceptable... period... and have a method of enforcement beyond the principles and practices of viglilante street justice...

2. It up to "you" to take "your" mob train... somewhere else... where you do not interfere with the game style of others... "EU is big enough for you to go somewhere else..."

On a positive note: I personally think that adding the chance of being banned or losing 50% of your worth on the chance that someone will be pissed off enough to bring case... would enhance the thrill and therefore the gameplay of the Mob Trainer... and a sense of justice done to the complainent...