a 30000$ mistake

[Mikass]

Think he pretty much blew his feeble chances of getting it back by making this thread.

 

[J. Mandrake]

tht wouldnt surprise me... it would be the way I'd deal with it... or I'd send him an email saying something like

"hi

unfortunatly we cant givce your item back, but then again who knows what you may loot if you mine west of orthos etc in about 5 months"

and jsut wait for this to die down.... then give it back to him thath way

But why would they do it then? If nobody cared about it, they'd have no pressure to give it back.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

We have not seen a post from Jeff in 2 days now
Could he already have it back?

i hope, and i hope he will tell us about!

 

[Gluepot]

I am pretty sure that somewhere in the EULA it says that you agree NOT to file a lawsuit by pressing "Accept".....

 

[The_Distant_one]

I dotn think the will give it straight awayl... wait till the drama dies down on here and then jsut slip it quietly back into his loot pool....

the less fall back on them the better maybe jsut to make him sweat it out abit...

 

[~CHOPPER~]

I am pretty sure that somewhere in the EULA it says that you agree NOT to file a lawsuit by pressing "Accept".....

I am pretty sure that would not stop a really expensive lawyer

 

[Lavawalker]

I do agree with what a lot of people are saying here,

Though let me give a *hypothetical* example,

*** Hypothetical Example ***

For some strange reason, Auktuma decides to go out mining, having his shop deed on him and hits a small 1 ped lyst claim amongst many others but does not get around to mining up the lyst claim.

He returns to TT to sell off some junk loot and decides to TT the lyst claim,
Due to his overtired state (remember this is hypothetical) he TT his shop deed.

This is after a recent VU where it is now required of you to have your shop deed on you to access your shop as the owner of that shop.

Not only has he lost over 8k USD worth of shop keepers, the 3k+ USD his shop deed is now worth, but also his personal crafting terminal worth in excess of well, shit a lot of money, close to the 35k - 40k usd mark now I hear along with all products within the shop, guestimated value ~ 4k usd

Place yourselves in that position.
Sorry Auktuma, bad luck mate. None of it shall be returned.

*** End of Hypothetical Example ***

In the greater scope of things, not limited to the virtual existence most seem to be stuck in with their thought processes, with the real world forces that will drive the prospective interest and investment along with value into and of MindArk as an organisation and into the internal economy of their service offering Entropia Universe.

EULA/Rules and other such precendence set only go so far in driving market opinion and real world company values. Yes I am talking the *sole primary* reason MindArk and partners (CK & CRD) are in business is to make money in the real world.

This situation with Jeff is only one example that has occured along with the above hypothetical example that will have mass reprecussions on these real world factors.

Investors into MindArk would scream and shout when they see their share value go through the floor and end up in a heated sellout frenzy if such incidents are reoccurring;

And it is only a matter of time before they do, do not kid yourself.

I have seen such similar incidents in my time, many a time when dealing in the penny share market over the last decade which have come close to destroying the feasibility of investing into companies with such fundermental investment flaws tied into them.

In this case, it is lucky that a simple improvement that can be made to systems and services offered with a little change of policy (EULA) to advert this from occuring when MindArk does go public.

Not at all being melodramatic, it is a simple fact of life and occurs on a daily basis upon the real life public stock exchange. Value within a company here one day and gone the next over glitches in investment security such as this.

Humans have an outstanding and astonishing way of making mistakes.

As the saying goes, build an idiot proof system, there will always be some idiot to prove that it was not idiot proof.

Yet, build in mechanisms where people are allowed to make mistakes that can be recovered at a charge;

Then you build a system where people can learn from their mistakes, and if they don't, oh well, they keep paying for them until they do.

Let us not get into conspiracy theories about the return of the item to Jeff,
It is a simple matter of yes it is, or no it is not in the public's eye.

This situation extends much further beyond the walls of this forum with the teleconference sessions I have been involved in today with others in the industry, and is already in the eye of the media ready to jump upon I am afraid

I am an investor and do not sit on my hands in keeping my ear to the ground on such things, especially when involves corporations I intend to invest heavily within and have already begun the investment process with.

My concern now is, which path MindArk chooses to take in relation to this incident, though more importantly where it intends to head in the future regarding improving the boasted investment & financial security which Entropia universe provides as the best RCE platform in the marketplace today.

We shall have to wait and see what MindArk does and if it intends to feed itself to the wolves or to kill the wolves and become a wolf hunter in standing by it's corporate values and protecting it's market reputation in the service provided through continued improvement.

This will be the true determining factor of the feasibility and value of investing into both MindArk and/or the service offerings it provides present day and in the future years to come.

Cheers,
Sparkz.

 

[Joker]

I do agree with what a lot of people are saying here,

Though let me give a *hypothetical* example,

*** Hypothetical Example ***

For some strange reason, Auktuma decides to go out mining, having his shop deed on him and hits a small 1 ped lyst claim amongst many others but does not get around to mining up the lyst claim.

He returns to TT to sell off some junk loot and decides to TT the lyst claim,
Due to his overtired state (remember this is hypothetical) he TT his shop deed.

Not only has he lost over 8k USD worth of shop keepers, the 3k+ USD his shop deed is now worth, but also his personal crafting terminal worth in excess of well, shit a lot of money, close to the 35k - 40k usd mark now I hear along with all products within the shop, guestimated value ~ 4k usd

.

even with out deed assuming it isnt restricted or something... he would still be able to pick up his items... this is hypothetical... but if someone else claimed his deed then he will of lost it all... but he remains the owner of all items inside until it is claimed by someone else

 

[FaustPL]

Enough of this BS.

I am pretty sure that somewhere in the EULA it says that you agree NOT to file a lawsuit by pressing "Accept".....

So by pressing accept he agreed to terms made by MA. (which states that they will NOT return items...)

End of the story... (I know its not going to be that simple, but it should be).

 

[Strangelove]

I am pretty sure that somewhere in the EULA it says that you agree NOT to file a lawsuit by pressing "Accept".....

That works as long as the "don't sue" clause is legal in whatever jurisdiction MA is governed. People sign contracts, don't like them, sue and win all the time. They sue and lose all the time. It depends on circumstances.

You cannot agree to something that is not legal. Not saying anything one way or another about MA's clause in the EULA other than eventually it will be tested. We'll see at that point.

I think eventually we will see a way to lock items so they can't be tt'd.

 

[Lavawalker]

even with out deed assuming it isnt restricted or something... he would still be able to pick up his items... this is hypothetical... but if someone else claimed his deed then he will of lost it all... but he remains the owner of all items inside until it is claimed by someone else

Correct, hypothetical example, TT the deed in this case would not allow him to access the shop in that he is no longer the owner of the shop.

Please let us not pick on technicalities, I was using a pure hypothetical example.

It is the best one I could think of whilst typing this on my feet
I updated the main post to avoid this technicality never the less.

Sparkz

 

[FaustPL]

I think eventually we will see a way to lock items so they can't be tt'd.

Or something that should be done long ago.. when u try to TT something rare or very expensive, additional screen should apper ''Are you sure you want to sell this item to trade terminal''..

 

[hoos]

Or something that should be done long ago.. when u try to TT something rare or very expensive, additional screen should apper ''Are you sure you want to sell this item to trade terminal''..

I think we have spawned a neverending, self-perpetuating thread. It is too massive for most to sift through, so the same ideas will keep popping up every four pages or so for eternity.

 

[Golden Atrox]

Is there a petition going on or about to start?

 

[FaustPL]

I think we have spawned a neverending, self-perpetuating thread. It is too massive for most to sift through, so the same ideas will keep popping up every four pages or so for eternity.

Im to lazy to read all of this m8..
I think theres nothing wrong with ppl having same ideas .. wrong is pointing them with your finger m8..
Its so lame just waiting for ppl to do mistake..

 

[Mojoswoptops]

What?? Joe squall tt'd his amp??? Bullshit!?!?! How did you hear this? Ive heard nothing about it. Someone should make a few threads about this to get the community aware.

 

[xInFernaLx]

What?? Joe squall tt'd his amp??? Bullshit!?!?! How did you hear this? Ive heard nothing about it. Someone should make a few threads about this to get the community aware.

Haha! laugh of the day!

I told myself to not post in this thread again, but just had to after reading the ten last pages that was here since yesterday

I really feel sorry for you Squall.. I really hope MA will give you that amp back..


To all of you that keep posting the same stuff that has been said over and over and over and over and over again in the same thread!!... Could you pls read the entire thread before posting? If you all did that, we would probably have 100 less posts here now.. Read it all or don't post! At least read the post above you Stop earning EFD's, then go gratz someone instead..

My greatest regards to Squall who probably have a really hard time right noe after such a great loss.. I can't even imagine myself in his place..

Xin.

 

[J. Mandrake]

I think we have spawned a neverending, self-perpetuating thread. It is too massive for most to sift through, so the same ideas will keep popping up every four pages or so for eternity.

Someone had to have divided by zero in one of these pages, then. Whoever did, delete the equation and let it die until more news comes!

 

[FaustPL]

Yeah have a laugh lads...

Just lock this thread and all us noobs will stop posting our doubled/tripled noobish ideas..

90 pages... LOL and did something constructive came up from all of this??

 

[KryssWanweird]

I offer this post as a bit of hope to the guy who lost his uber amp.

There is another game that has a real world cash economy with a very similar EULA to EU. It states that everything belongs to the company, they may close your account for any reason they see fit, or for no reason at all! It states you have no recourse to their decision, blah blah blah. You get the idea.

Now, one particular individual discovered an exploit in it's land auction system and was able to purchase land far below market value, which he then sold for market value, racking in substantial amounts of money. I would say they are fairly similar to the amp's worth.

When said company found out about this, they locked his account and confisticated his ill gotten gains, pointing to relevent areas of their EULA.

The gentleman, noting the large amount of real money involved, got himself some legal representation, and sued said company for his financial losses. The result of the case was that the gentleman was fully reimbursed.

Now this gentleman won his case, even after exploiting the software and in face of the EULA.

So, someone who lost $30,000 through a small clicking error who be in an infinitely better legal position to regain their loss than the above mentioned hacker.

I have read alot in these forums about how and when items should be returned. Some say always, some say never, some say for only items worth a certain amount or above.

EU could easily return items over the value, say, that most people would consider taking them to court over. It may not be fair to most people as they don't own items worth that much, but that is how the real world works.

EU will return this item, unless the individual really doesn't care about losing $30,000.

I happened to follow this case too, but allow me to point out that the guy was not reimbursed of the values he illegitimately collected.
Problem is, when the referred company discovered the exploit, they locked his account which had other values, as well as land that he legitimately bought.
What was returned to him was his account and land he had purchased legitimately, while this other land he got through the exploit (paying O$), this was confiscated from him.

 

[Mags]

I looked in my chrystal ball... and MA will not return it, but they will give it to him in the next loot and so the rules will not be broken and all will be happy

 

[delerium]

i had strange thoughts this morning ...what if he is actually on vacation right now and someone hacked his EF account and opened this thread while his amp resting in his inventory?

 

[Stormer]

I looked in my chrystal ball... and MA will not return it, but they will give it to him in the next loot and so the rules will not be broken and all will be happy

lol mags

I havent read anything in this thread..its just too long heh, but one thing is for sure..it would be very interesting to see how MA is going to handle this, it was just a matter of time before this would happen

I feel sry for the guy, he cant sleep good at nights and MA have to change this stupid rules.

 

[Mayday]

It would be intresting if 1-2 more people would tt such expensive items,like IMK2 and MODFAP...whta would the gaming world say if 3 mistakenly sold items would not be returned and have the value of a Jaguar???

This is not a JJ question,its the biggest point where MA can prove themself:are they a good managment of a virtual game or stupid arrogant pricks which they have prooven to be many times till now.


PS:I hope hes well IRL,and that he writes something here...Healts is 1 thing MA cant bring back

 

[Echo Biatch]

Again the EULA is MA's version of the LAW and all laws are open to interpretation.......

A man walks up to another and shoots him in the head this is murder...

A man defending his home shoots another in the head to protect himself....this is justifiable homicide.....

MA states that the SUPPORT DEPARTMENT cannot return his item but does not say that the powers that be at MA cannot overrule the support staff...

Dont complain to support their hands are tied by the EULA but the higher ranked members at MA are not......

I hope that people can understand this.

 

[rastamannen]

Well i still think my idea is best. On every tool there is a box that sais unable to TT, if u check that one u wont be able to put it there. Different colour on items doesnt matter, his intention was to repair it so it wouldnt have mattered if it was yellor or goldish.

 

[Auktuma]

Place yourselves in that position.
Sorry Auktuma, bad luck mate. None of it shall be returned.

*** End of Hypothetical Example ***

Dear friend,
situation after hypothetical example will be similar to that of Squall's but that not changes my opinion. That will be just my own fault if I'll TT my deed. I've did many faults what cost me money in past. TTed valuable items, underestimated risk ... But I haven't bothered support because of it was just my own fault. If I pressed accelerator instead of pressing break and killed man by car - that will be my fault but not of producers of that car or technician. I have read instructions, I knew rules and I've accepted it. So, I'm playing/driving with complete responsibility. If you dont agree with any rules you shouldn't play/drive. Why that public treat, why that populism? There were rules, there was time for suggestions to ask on change of rules if you not agree with it (since 2007). Furthermore wasn't MA who told you to pay "market" price. And in my point of view, MA in main are media providers but service is provided by us. We build our relations, we set "market" prices, we decide what to do with virtual items we get hands on - to provide service or to let others to use that "instruments" (sell, rent, gift....). Ask of Squall please if he knew what could happen if he will TT that OA105. That shouldnt be: "I dont care, I'm unique, MA will/should make an exception...". Lets clarify once - if you do not agree with rules - stop playing and offer your suggestions to MA and after their response (1. not accepted any of your suggestions; 2. partially accepted; 3. your suggestions were implemented) you could finalize your decision if that media is acceptable for you. If you are investor you should take into account rules and impact of it, you should weight all risks you are able to recognise and finaly you/your partners should take care about your own investment. If You anyhow mind that MA are/should be responsible or should bring any insurance on your investment you should clarify that before your investment with them, but not after accident.

So, dear people, if you got any ideas how to make media more attractive for all/most of us - post your suggestions to support. And I would like to ask all of you at least some respect to media providers. Well, they created Volvo, not Mercedes, not Ferrari or .... - we got specific design, we got specific technical characteristics. Look at how we could adapt it to our needs...

Peace with You,
/auk

P.S. I'm sorry I wont be able for further discussion due to leaving EU/EF for 3-5 days...

 

[Lavawalker]

Dear friend,
situation after hypothetical example will be similar to that of Squall's but that not changes my opinion. That will be just my own fault if I'll TT my deed. I've did many faults what cost me money in past. TTed valuable items, underestimated risk ... But I haven't bothered support because of it was just my own fault. If I pressed accelerator instead of pressing break and killed man by car - that will be my fault but not of producers of that car or technician. I have read instructions, I knew rules and I've accepted it. So, I'm playing/driving with complete responsibility. If you dont agree with any rules you shouldn't play/drive. Why that public treat, why that populism? There were rules, there was time for suggestions to ask on change of rules if you not agree with it (since 2007). Furthermore wasn't MA who told you to pay "market" price. And in my point of view, MA in main are media providers but service is provided by us. We build our relations, we set "market" prices, we decide what to do with virtual items we get hands on - to provide service or to let others to use that "instruments" (sell, rent, gift....). Ask of Squall please if he knew what could happen if he will TT that OA105. That shouldnt be: "I dont care, I'm unique, MA will/should make an exception...". Lets clarify once - if you do not agree with rules - stop playing and offer your suggestions to MA and after their response (1. not accepted any of your suggestions; 2. partially accepted; 3. your suggestions were implemented) you could finalize your decision if that media is acceptable for you. If you are investor you should take into account rules and impact of it, you should weight all risks you are able to recognise and finaly you/your partners should take care about your own investment. If You anyhow mind that MA are/should be responsible or should bring any insurance on your investment you should clarify that before your investment with them, but not after accident.

So, dear people, if you got any ideas how to make media more attractive for all/most of us - post your suggestions to support. And I would like to ask all of you at least some respect to media providers. Well, they created Volvo, not Mercedes, not Ferrari or .... - we got specific design, we got specific technical characteristics. Look at how we could adapt it to our needs...

Peace with You,
/auk

P.S. I'm sorry I wont be able for further discussion due to leaving EU/EF for 3-5 days...

I understand your position Auktuma,

Sorry I was just using your position as a hypothetical example only,
Though I think you have missed the point,
Somewhat completely actually.

Investors in the real world, do not care about who you or I am,
They only care about financial security of their investments into MindArk as organisation which is driven by the effects of financial security & investment flaws in their associated service offering.

You are only one of many hundreds of thousands and soon millions of people who hold yourself accountable for mistakes made and take ownership of these mistakes based upon guidelines (EULA) set.

Though as you have stated in the past, you have invested only small amounts into entropia and then re-invest earnings (profit) back into your venture.

If a participant took a mortgage out against their house as an investment into Entropia, investing like jeff did into an Ore-Amp, then accidently TT'd it through one of the provoked flaws within the service offering, which in a nutshell is exactly what he did.

The implications and the loss is a lot deeper for him as their is a compounded financial burden which threatens his real life livelyhood.

You work as a relatively high paid scientist, others may not have a steady form of income to ease such a burden yet still have the impacted risk and lowered quality of life from accidently TTing part of the asset value of their real world shelter (house) via an electronically programmed repeatitively provoked flaw.

People who say well the EULA says ... X, Y, Z

Really have little idea;

There are ways to take MindArk to court in Sweden over it and win hands down quite easily. I know this can be done from research completed before entering Entropia, and I have not uptil now mentioned this as every other person is waffling on about that subject.

Though again this is not my primary concern nor am I interested in any such action being taken by any participant here in this community to which we all belong.

My major concern is the degraded value of MindArk and the detering of valued investors walking away from MindArk due to such flaws.

I do not wish, as I have said before, to see MindArk become the laughing stock of any community (social/financial/investment/RCE Industry), in the real or virtual world, and do wish to see MindArk succeed with the upcoming IPO and stay ahead of market opinion and devaluation pitfalls due to such flaws such as this provoked failure within the service offering.

Both from a policy point of view and from a security upon investment point of view.

I am fighting to see MindArk successful in processing this situation correctly and have spent the most of today and last night on the phone to people around the world on this exact issue, from corporation investment analysts through to those who specialise in indemnity insurance.

I am not interested with who got treated how in the past, I am only looking at the current incidient on the table and how MindArk can best move forward, improving it's systems along the way to insure it incurs as little backlash as possible.

The media, who already have their sights on this thread do not care about you nor do they care about me. Same as the corporation & RCE marketspace analysts who are already watching this thread.

They only care about how MindArk carries itself as a business to rectify flaws such as this one and as to what improvements they make to strengthen their market position and insure financial investment security into both MindArk's service offering, Entropia Universe and in turn MindArk as a publicly listed company.

I hope this clears things up for you;
and that you do realise that in no way using you in the hypothetical example was an attack on you.

I hope this also clears up that market opinion is driving the evaluation of MindArk, purely based on investment security of real life money into shares on the public stock exchange;

Which of course can be indirectly driven down in investment feasibility and value if flaws that have the potential to incur great loses without recovery are present in MindArk's service offering.

The EULA has very little to almost 0 weight I am afraid in a court of law due to the unregulated nature of Virtual-Based-RCE at this time and most investors already know this.
(Again not the point I am concerned about in the overall context of things)

We must wait and see what MA has install for us this time around.
Patience is virtue.

Sparkz

 

[aridash]

I am fighting to see MindArk successful in processing this situation correctly and have spent the most of today and last night on the phone to people around the world on this exact issue, from corporation investment analysts through to those who specialise in indemnity insurance.

im curious, what is in your opinion the correct process for this situation? what is the opinion of analysts? (and who are they)

(and since you brought it up, do you have any visability on the IPO schedule 'cause as far as i can tell its a long way off, certainly not this year... pm me of start a new thread if you wish.)

 

[Lavawalker]

im curious, what is in your opinion the correct process for this situation? what is the opinion of analysts? (and who are they)

(and since you brought it up, do you have any visability on the IPO schedule 'cause as far as i can tell its a long way off, certainly not this year... pm me of start a new thread if you wish.)

Inquisitive person you are Aridash, rude yet direct in wanting to know details.
Sorry I am not willing to divulge such information.

I am also not going to turn this already 75%+ waffle based thread into a discussion about what I am doing in aid of protecting my own interests in money invested and to be invested into MindArk & Entropia nor to what advise I am being given in a somewhat bleak attempt to point out some of these pitfalls not only to MindArk, which I am more than sure they are already aware of, yet also to a larger than expected portion of the present day community who are squabbling around like lost little squirrels in the dark fighting over peanuts without seeing the light of day on the bigger issues MindArk are presently faced with.

I do however see lights switching on from time to time and there has been a lot of constructive input into this thread which is not selfish/self-centred and to the benefit of the community as a whole and not just to their own ends.

I hope this helps you Aridash

Sparkz