Adjusted fap chat.

[Noggin]

A strong factor about the silly prizes on items i think is...

ADDICTION

I would NOT be surprised if there is alot of people putting their savings in to EU.

I don't think theese people buying are rich do you

Totally - a lot of people buy WAY over their means. I know of one particular guy who got himself into $80k of debt... just for a game! Real nasty business. Sold his home, car, moved back in with his mother, and even still he's probably got a good few more years to pay it off, suffering without a life because of it all.

The addiction to EU and the need to be 'better' is sometimes all-encompassing, and can overpower reason and logic in somebody's brain. Happens with many other things in the real world...

I still find it quite perverse how MA have allowed the economy to get so hyper-inflated. Surely it's in nobody's interest, and I still see no sign of a plan to keep it steady or reduce it.

You certainly can't blame MA for everything though - I do believe in the responsibility of the individual, and the fact that everyone has to face the consequences of their own actions at some point in their lives.

However, MA have great power over people - more than they realise I think. As they yield this power, I believe it's also their responsibility to ensure it's used wisely and with the best interests of their customers (us) at heart. This is why I find it quite disturbing quite how expensive everything seems to be these days.

Before PE, in your right mind did you ever think you would be paying out $1000 for a virtual item? I certainly didn't. But I DID end up paying that sorta cash for a virtual item, and a bunch on top. People have paid almost $20,000 for a virtual healing box too, which I'm pretty sure wasn't exactly pocket change.

As the RCE MMO market expands, and the public has more to choose from, this phenomina will die out. No longer will it seem reasonable to pay out that sort of money for a virtual fap, because in xxx other game, which yyy prefers because it has zzz content, you can get the best healing tool for pocket change.

This only seems reasonable to us right now because it's the ONLY game around which has built it's economy in such a way. People get caught up in it all, and then start to value the virtual items in the same way they would if they were real.

Real items carry a real cost. Virtual items can be picked out of the air. That's the difference I think. In a market crash, a virtual item could conceivably become exactly what it's worth: Nothing at all.

 

[Northman]

Right on spot Noggin

Was going to give you +Rep but i have to spread them around.


Hope this wise words are read by whole community and make all think twice.

Especially on Friday nights

 

[The Collector]

I got one word to say on this one - as a slight aside from the adj fap discussion but definately relevant for anyone with high end stuff in their inventory like myself.

Asia

Anyone with spare peds should buy anything that resembles rare and useful to some degree

Flame me for it but its true and in 12 months if you took my advice you will reap the rewards.

Sorry people this may be a great " game " but I don't view it in the same way I view football or golf or something - this is real life money and real life potential earnings way above most irl investment in the same time frame

Back to crafting

Coll

 

[Northman]

Jepp Collector, real word money. Remember that when you sell stuff to next sucker its real money for him/her too

Asia ? Are they allowed to use monopoly money or do you mean they are rich ?

 

[Noggin]

You definitely got a point there Collector, and I certainly respect your opinion around here as you're one of the true investors of the game, as well as a nice guy.

I always tend to err on the sceptical side with MA, and for me this Asia thing is something I take with a pinch of salt. Sure it's a huge emerging market, and in the MMO stakes they're light years ahead of the western world.

For them EU probably won't be anything special, and I'm sure it'll have some take up, there won't be hoards of people spouting chat ill-fitting to our Roman based character sets! The Asian markets tend to have a lot of different expectations and attitudes to their online gaming.

Take Japan for instance - they have one of the biggest MMO markets in the world, with a veritable cornucopia of MMOs, yet they're all very easternised. I have a friend from (lets call it another game, shall we), who is from the US, but has been living in Japan for a few years.

According to him, there is so much competition around that people tend to play MMOs within their interest range, and for most this involves large amounts of Japanese culture. Whilst some people are interested in Western MMOs, he very much doubts that people of Japan will be willing to spend such large amounts of their income on games like EU, simply because there are a lot more advanced and graphically superior games available in Japan for a lot cheaper.

I should imagine this echoes all around Asia. Now, we can't discount the value of even a tiny percentage of such a huge market, but I think something like this would take a VERY long time to take off in Asia. Given that the big pull on the asian market hasn't even started yet (oh apart from that stupid boat thing), I'd still hold my judgement about how it will affect us.

The economy will have to grow to accomodate them, no question about it. The economy is very inflated, very fragile and controlled in its entirety by MA. If confidence falls out of the market, I think people will start to take their peds with them. Might never happen, but there's nothing convincing me that MA are being proactive with this either.

The main difference between Asia and Western Europe/US is that the MMO market in Asia is far more mature, and so it will take a lot more than what I believe MA has to offer to sway any large number of them, especially given the language boundaries.

I still believe that MA have a hell of a lot of work to do even to bring EU up to the standard of some of the new MMOs in the pipeline for release over the next couple of years. They have to rethink their economy, crafting, mining and hunting to be a lot more scaleable. They have to think how they will merge the existing game into it's future form, whereas anyone creating a new game only has to worry about what it'll look like when it's released!

Seems to me that Asia is the least of their worries!

 

[nvcK]

Asia ? Are they allowed to use monopoly money or do you mean they are rich ?

South Korea is the Mecca of multiplayer gaming. Starcraft grew to the size of football over there.

 

[Northman]

I know some countrys in Asia love computergames. But this one is different
in many ways, like real money involved.

 

[Metatron]

I have a feeling Asians may be more interested in Russian games.

 

[nvcK]

I know some countrys in Asia love computergames. But this one is different
in many ways, like real money involved.

Real money involved is pretty much the only difference there is. It is also the main lure for the new players. Rest of the aspects is pretty much simillar (there is castle siege, which is basically a landgrab in L******2, the currently "in" Asian game).

 

[Xerces]

Lets Face it!!

Lets face it.. Eventually MA is going to run out of new markets to open the game into and then this "game" will fade off into the distance like so many others before it have. I don't want to see it happen either, and am definately not saying it is right around the corner. But the fact remains that with the cost of items ever increasing at the rate that the Adj, Mod and Imp FAP are people are not going to want to join this "Free" game.

If IMO MA were smart they would force prices to drop by flooding all markets. Sure the current active player base of what 50,000? including myself would be upset but this would allow a much more enjoyable game experience for those that do not have the funds to pump into this game in large increments. IMO all the people "investing" large amounts of their personal income in this game is what is killing it. When a noob comes into the game almost everyone of them ask how can they get started. It costs for most, due to lack of patience, around $50 to graduate and then a monthly deposit to sustain their profession while they skill from there. Unless someone deposits large income into the game, baring extreme luck and circumstance noone will ever be able to make the jump for noob to uber level to afford these obsurbdly priced items.

I personally am comfortable with my current advancement in the game and have had fun doing it. (Until the next VU, but thats for another thread) There needs to be some leveling of the playing field for newer players and exerienced players. As it stands the ubers are just getting more uber, and the rest of us are and forever will be noobs not affording these items unless we either loot one, or get extremely lucky with huge ATHs.

I am sure I will recieve many -rep for this post due to it going against the thought process of many. But I felt it needed to be said. Dont forget to +rep if you argree. Thanks for reading, if you made it this far.

 

[aridash]

Asia

i have a phrase for you: dont count your chickens till they hatch. Im not at all convinced that PE will go down so well in the Asian market. Its not as if its not already open to them, is it? Japanese, Korean, Chinese and others they each have different tastes to each other and those are different to the West European flavour. while there might be many aspects with universal appeal, the styling in PE is quite distinctly western.

time will tell, i might be very wrong. but i wouldnt bet the farm on an influx from the east.

 

[Kemp]

Anyway Saves about 20-40 ped a hunt without armor depending on what u hunt longu no armor is great
And serious hunterws who do 3-4 runs a day 120 ped saved a day hell yea!

Th one and only truth. Prices are high yes. But the prices is just a way to express that people aren't willing to part from it easily. If you had enough of it sell it (for probably more then you bought it for). Meanwhile enjoy the low decay. I won;t sell mine for 55k

 

[Boywonder]

I won;t sell mine for 55k

me neither

 

[ZAN ZAN]

I'll just add my 2 pecs.

Ek2600 vs Fap 90 - Incredible difference on pedcard, in favour of Fap 90.
If the difference between Fap90 and Adjusted is anything like this, I think its worth the "seller's market" price. Not that I could realistically afford one though.

 

[Nirfu]

a, you were one of the early players in here and you took advantage of the growth curve of the game. But the growth cannot continue for an unlimited time.

There will allways be a new sucker starting this game and willing to pay a lot to get to the uber status fast. So I think the price will keep increasing

Unless there is another game that take all the players away from this one.

 

[Zanathos]

I will most likely never buy uber items ever again except for maybe the very low end ones.

My worst mistake financially for me in this game was depositing to buy an adj hero... but back at that time it was TT + 2k roughly.


To buy it now O_O


no.... i think not.



I wont ever buy those kinds of items unless i profit non stop in this game and get enough peds for it.

 

[Ast]

Th one and only truth. Prices are high yes. But the prices is just a way to express that people aren't willing to part from it easily. If you had enough of it sell it (for probably more then you bought it for). Meanwhile enjoy the low decay. I won;t sell mine for 55k

Can i convince you to give it to me for some hot cyber s3xx0r and a few beers?

 

[Kay-T]

My opinion?

$5k for an adj fap, nearly $20k for a mod fap. wethere you wanna sell one for that much or willing to pay that much, your high and i want some of what you been smoking.

The only way these items would even remotely be worth that much is for their collector's item status or to rip someone else off by reselling for a profit.

For all of you who justify the price of these items is due to the money you save, i call bullshit.
For that kinda money you can buy a butload of carefully selected skill chips
with those skill chips you can avoid getting hit all together (or at least very rarely), heal full each (or nearly each) time on a less efficient fap, as well as do much better damage with less misses on your weapon of chocie.

Wich is better? pay $5k to heal more cheaply when you get hit, or $5k to rarely get hit in the first place?
Hell that much spent on chips would not only save you money in the long run, but done right will MAKE you money and at a steady pace instead of only when you sell out.

Now if you already have 10k in evade and supporting skills, plus other hunting skills then i can see how an over priced fap can save you more money but by then you would surely have gotten enough hofs and even an ATH or two so you can afford to pay that easy by earned income without having to depo to do it.

 

[Jhereg]

The difference here is that the fap will generally retain its market value, whilst with evade, you end up paying more than you should do to the 10% loss upon chipping out as well as the ESI costs...

 

[buckaroobanzai]

The difference here is that the fap will generally retain its market value, ...

'Generally' is the key word here.

BB

 

[Xerces]

Dispite Skill loss...

Dispite the skill loss the these FAPS are not worth even close to the prices people are paying. I agree with Kay-T on this one. The skills I could buy with that much money would be worth far and beyond what the return recieved from that FAP. For those that want to say but you get your money back out of it... You do with skills too. How long would it take for a Imp FAP to pay for its self if you saved the numbers stated before (Kerham's Post)? Is that worth it to most players? Not even close. #1 Are most players hardcore. #2 Most players cannot afford the astronomical prices these are set at baring as I stated previously extreme fortune in game. Everything in-game is overpriced though. I am not saying that as someone who expects things for free. I deposit. But within reason. For me to aquire anything decent I will need a stroke of luck or not have fun and solely bulk trade. The structure behind the economy in this game is flawed. As "the governing body" of this "world" it is MA responsability to regulate the economy. IRL when there are monopolies on goods often times Price caps are implemented to prevent those with the monopoly from taking advantage of those who can do nothing to stop it. This is just one example of something that could be done in this case. Others would include increasing the quantity available. Hence my other post... The problem with the economy I think is larger than just this one item. It boils down to MA trying to skim their piece of the pie, sweaters and other play for free people trying to "get rich for free" (other than time spent of course) all removing PED\$ from the pull.

A smart person in game can currently early on, increase their Net worth. I did it. Thus far I have deposited only $45 ($15 /month) I have played this game. I have managed to double my net worth because of my investment in assets in the game and graduate hunting. I know I am still a noob and forever will be... But I am here to have fun. However there is going to come a time due to the current economy, that will not be possible. I suspect for me it will be sooner than later due to the upcomming VU. I do not expect to be able to hunt efficiently and make $ however I do expect to be able to deposit my $15 a month and be able to play the "game". In playing the "game" to keep peoples interest there needs to be a way for someone, not only me as I know there are many in a similar situation as I, to increase their ability and "station" in this "world" outside of skills. At present I do not see a way this could be done without skilling for years and years only to see the inflation of items growing ever beyond reach. To those of you that say $15/month is not enough.. then I say look at all of the other MMO's out there that I could play for that price or less. Not that any of this is going to make a difference but people need to open their eyes. Some see it as an investment, sure I understand that. But what about those that just want to "play the game"?

Edit: Now that I reread it maybe this post is better suited in another spin off thread from the spin off thread this thread is.. If Moderators so deem this to be the case then please move it there. Thanks

 

[Phaser]

Bottom line:

FAP 5 rocks.

 

[Roth]

so once again a adjfap thread has taken the turn to evade skills. well i will quote myself from the last such discussion.

I wish you were right.. well you are in a way but still so far off, in theory that might work out just fine but in reality it doesnt unless you want to limit your hunting to mobs which will never reach you (which is very hard in the longrun if you bring in close spawns, big spawned areas etc).

evade is not a replacement for fapping, its a way to be able to hunt bigger things, to recude both fap and armor decay but you will still have to fap quite alot. I may only have 4.2K evade myself but i am so very far from getting hit as little as you need to be to make your equation work. lets say you can do it at 10K evade and between 5k and 10k u will get something like an avreage of 60levels/chip at the cost of 800ped each.. thats 83*800= 66400peds and you will STILL have to fap even if not as much as before.. exactly how effective evade is at 10k you will have to ask someone else

and dont forget that you will also need to chip avoidance since its just as important.

and last of all.. there are mobs with mms hogglos etc that hits me 95% of the time. these will still need fapping.

so what you need to really be effective and maximise the profit is to always use the perfect balance of fap, weapon and armor. never overkill. and the easiest way to do this is to first get a fap and then get the armor which has the least protection needed with that particular fap,or no armor at all. or hunt very very small using only armor and a very economic weapon.

in the end, highend gear open doors to more choises, and lowend gear limits you which ofcourse can be a fun challenge if you like that kinda thing.

 

[Lugzan]

There will allways be a new sucker starting this game and willing to pay a lot to get to the uber status fast. So I think the price will keep increasing

well, ubbah status does not come from the items or skills one buys, it takes a LOT more to earn that

but back on topic, 50k +/- is only ok for those who hunt hardcore every day and earn it's price back. there are rather few of such players and even less of those who can afford such price. moreover, I personally would recommend to pay that extra ped for better dmg/sec, range and eco weapon if possible. as you come more skilled, you will need a better weapon anyways and the sooner you get it, the less it will cost and the higher the eco will save you in total


J.

 

[Northman]

Problem is not if the fap is good or not. The big issue is the freaking inflated pricetag on it. When i started a few years ago price was 10-15k . At that time this fap was great to skill evade etc. You could earn back a lot by only selling easy defense-skills. That is not so easy to do now (not using exploit).

A good phrase for this dirty business : "The last idiot is not born yet"

 

[Xerces]

Pricetag

I agree that Evade is not the End all and that the Price of this FAP shouldnt be high. But lets come back to reality. In order to have both the high evade and FAP to be able to hunt the most efficiently you would not hunt the large mobs but want to hunt armorless to decrease decay. So therefore the getting hit less definately comes into play. I agree that when you are refering to hunting the other mobs that more comes into play. But how is it ever possible for anyone beginning this game to ever progress? Outside of depositing\investing their savings in a game they only intend to use to have fun? We wonder why the population is so small? Most normal people cannot afford to sink a couple thousand into a game to just make it to the point of being self sustaining. This lesser population hurts in the long run of incomming cash flow into the game and is more volitile to economy changes if lets say an uber or 2 were to just cash out.. Depending on the person they could have enough mony invested in the game to actually influence the market a decent amount. No item should be $5200 US Dollars. I personally think that is even too high for the LA Deeds. The LAs should be smaller and split into more deeds so that they are more accessable to all. But my ideas on that are for another thread. Anything in a game that requires large sums of RL money to obtain is a bad Idea. But MA is the final decider as to where they want to see their business going. I personally look at the long term. (ie lower taxes and let the economy compensate. It will be better of fin the long run than the immediate gain of raising taxes...) But that is just me and one point of view...

 

[Roth]

I agree that Evade is not the End all and that the Price of this FAP shouldnt be high. But lets come back to reality. In order to have both the high evade and FAP to be able to hunt the most efficiently you would not hunt the large mobs but want to hunt armorless to decrease decay. So therefore the getting hit less definately comes into play. I agree that when you are refering to hunting the other mobs that more comes into play. But how is it ever possible for anyone beginning this game to ever progress? Outside of depositing\investing their savings in a game they only intend to use to have fun? We wonder why the population is so small? Most normal people cannot afford to sink a couple thousand into a game to just make it to the point of being self sustaining. This lesser population hurts in the long run of incomming cash flow into the game and is more volitile to economy changes if lets say an uber or 2 were to just cash out.. Depending on the person they could have enough mony invested in the game to actually influence the market a decent amount. No item should be $5200 US Dollars. I personally think that is even too high for the LA Deeds. The LAs should be smaller and split into more deeds so that they are more accessable to all. But my ideas on that are for another thread. Anything in a game that requires large sums of RL money to obtain is a bad Idea. But MA is the final decider as to where they want to see their business going. I personally look at the long term. (ie lower taxes and let the economy compensate. It will be better of fin the long run than the immediate gain of raising taxes...) But that is just me and one point of view...

well you have a few points but there is a few big but in them.. first you are talking about the whole economy and not just the adjfap, ofcourse the adjfap should be cheaper if all other items was cheaper too.

next but.. its not about beeing selfsustaining, its a game where you pay for entertainment and you chose yourself how much you can afford. which is also the reason i will never call it a virtual universe as MA want us to do, a universe should be able to be selfsustained without anything needed from any other universe to make it work. so its either a game or a nonfunctional universe.

and the last one, some items have to be really rare and therefor have a high pricetag or everyone would just have the same items making noone better then anyone else in any way which would take away the fun for alot of players, players who deposit alot and might actually fund your own playing.
when it comes to LA´s ofcourse the price must be high, you make alot of money out of them with very low risk. smaller areas would be harder to hunt in and that wouldnt be good either, ofcourse the LGA´s could be split up in smaller ones since some of them ar huge

 

[Xerces]

next but.. its not about beeing selfsustaining, its a game where you pay for entertainment and you chose yourself how much you can afford. which is also the reason i will never call it a virtual universe as MA want us to do, a universe should be able to be selfsustained without anything needed from any other universe to make it work. so its either a game or a nonfunctional universe.

Ok, self sustaining in the respect that I was refering to is by depositing my monthly alloted amount to keep playing. I understand that MA cannot provide its services (Programming and servers) for free. This is a game. MA has even began saying so in their press releases...

and the last one, some items have to be really rare and therefor have a high pricetag or everyone would just have the same items making noone better then anyone else in any way which would take away the fun for alot of players, players who deposit alot and might actually fund your own playing.
when it comes to LA´s ofcourse the price must be high, you make alot of money out of them with very low risk. smaller areas would be harder to hunt in and that wouldnt be good either, ofcourse the LGA´s could be split up in smaller ones since some of them ar huge

I agree that some items must be rare to distinguish between players. However, MA allowing infinate deposit sizes at infinate intervals is the problem. There is nothing to level the playing field. At the current pace the players that began playing EU/PE when it first began are the only ones that can practically on a budgeted deposit schedule play the game, outside of extreme lucky circumstances with ATHs. How does this entice new players to join this game if the possabiliy does not exist for them to join a game and succeed? The rate of inflation in this game far exceeds the inflation in RL. Being that the Economy is based on RL Currency this isnt practical or helpful to the future of the game. I deposit money atleast monthly to have fun. That is all I expect out of any game that I play. That possability is is greatly reduced due to the inflation occured over the evolution of an avatar in game. In order to Graduate, one can get by depositing very little. Pre VU 8.7 after the VU this will increase even more. Pre VU the gap between opalo hunter and other hunter was more accessable and practically bridged. After VU the cost to hunt inefficiently with weapons that miss so many more shots and use more ammo is greatly increased. Forcing players to either deposit more per month to make up the difference or to Chip their skills. This jump is even greater from the non-opalo user to the advanced player pre-uber... and so on.... an Avatar's Evolution in the game is strictly based on how much one is willing to deposit or how lucky they are.

It is hard to do now because of the existing dispairity in skill levels between ubers and newer players as well as the PED difference between these players. But if MA were to from the beginning put a Maximum and Minimum deposit on the game then I think this would have helped the overall economy in the long run.. I am sure there are many things I have not considered or thought of however it is atleast obvious to me that things have gotten horrible. I am not saying I have a perfect solution for all the problems in the EU however MA needs to wake up and realize why they loose so many players so early in the game. And realize that it is not that they do not want to deposit, that they might feel that depositing what they can and are willing to do will not get them anywhere in the game, and that their Ava's "Level" will be based solely on their backing of funds and luck as entering the game now Ava's are far behind skill wise with many.