Clarification about Entropia banking operations

[McCormick]

Mmmmhhh weekly ban list

 

[Venus]

Newcomers come to Entropia, they have read about the banking license and assume baning is safe in Entropia. All banking. When they get fooled by a scammer bank avatar they lose all trust in Entropia and in MindArk.

Do you really think some "newcomers" are going to impawn any valueable item for some serious investments??
And don`t you think that even a "newcomer" can differ from a "scammer bank avatar (!)" and an official bank with building and npc`s in it?!


In my book now to play "the great protector of Nubs" is still a very lame excuse for your actions.
Pure nonsense and you should be reported for incompetence to Mr. Welter posting such crap here.


Over&out V

 

[Etopia]

To clarify the clarification - MA will target avatars who state they offer loan services (or equal) as business (and not having a virtual banking license). Private loans, the borrowing or lending of items/money between friends, is not the target.

Newcomers come to Entropia, they have read about the banking license and assume baning is safe in Entropia. All banking. When they get fooled by a scammer bank avatar they lose all trust in Entropia and in MindArk. It creates support cases, grief and anger. Many newcomers doesn't really understand the concept of virtual items having real value until after something bad happens. This time we wanted to act before the situation gets out of hand, and to protect the community and add safety to the virtual environment. Many of the newcomers today don't have the knowledge or insight of the culture and mechanics in Entropia, thus meaning MA must add means to protect them.

As to scammers in general, MA is locking accounts due to scams and frauds. Maybe we should have a weekly posting of "Accounts locked since last week" somewhere to have transparancy, maybe we should add the number of warnings an avatar has when people interact with the avatar. Obviously there are things that can be improved.

How to dig your own grave , marco lesson 2...

Well this is the second statement you will for sure denie and rollback very soon...
Thats 4 year ... yeahhh 4 year , that kind of list id asked by ME but other player too , if the wish is not "ignored" we get a " MA policy" blabla , about provacy and other crap excuse...
I know ,and you ( marco) know its another promiss you will never ever ever do...
I still wait a statement about the "suposed" people banned from using a bot ... where is that info ?

About protectionism , i do understand MA whant to "protect" the bank liscence ... but please , at least post it frankly ... dont come with dumb excuse no one bielive not even yourself... we all know ( MA and player) its a very big lie...

Please , stop come with such lame lies...

Now , I will go make a share society , its seems that one is perfectly alowed...
I will create " Etopia concept".
I will sell share of my society , and people will be aloed to pay with item.After som time , they can if they wish , give back the share , and i will give back the item... but , due to disturbing , i will ask them som kind of fee...

If you whant we player , think EU is a fair place where MA try to reduce scam and bad stuff , then explain to people like anshe to stop her "share" business ..

If only loan is forbiden dur to concurence bank owner then post it frankly...
But post something that does not look to lamest and dumbest lie ever see in EU...

 

[SB2]

...
Pure nonsense and you should be reported for incompetence to Mr. Welter posting such crap here.


Over&out V

I'm sure Mr. Welter will get right on that....

 

[Thorn]

I just wanted to add my BS opinion. Obvious what`s going on here. Then again who cares. I would never be using the services anyhow. Well I guess I do care when they stifle competition to benefit the favorites. Hey it`s looking like the real world more than ever!

 

[ThunderCat]

its looking like MA is loosing grip on things

 

[nutter]

I will never use the banking services of the five official banks. If enough people did this, then maybe the buyers of the licences, and MA might take notice. They are proving that they do not listen to us with our reports of scammers over the years going ignored. Yet they bow to pressure from the licence holders (and I believe this to be the case...) to prevent others impinging on thier potential business!

I really do hope the banks all fail. Maybe MA will then realise the power is in the hands of the many, not the $$$ few...

 

[Tangine]

Many newcomers doesn't really understand the concept of virtual items having real value until after something bad happens. This time we wanted to act before the situation gets out of hand, and to protect the community and add safety to the virtual environment. Many of the newcomers today don't have the knowledge or insight of the culture and mechanics in Entropia, thus meaning MA must add means to protect them.

I think that this is where the MA officials that welcome newcomers at the spaceship are handy : they can give this information, can't they ? teach the newbies not to trade PvP as a rule for at least their first week, until they found a decent society and mentor ? Teach them about item tt value and markup ? Some get it really quick... Teach them that there are official banks that are in buidling such and such, etc ? Wouldn't take that much time, and maybe would improve the trust level ?

 

[soundboy]

Just tell the truth from the beggining and so much is avoided. To dig yourself even deeper by the newcomer statement using a scam bank when they clearly have nothing to pawn is incredible.

And a bank pays interest as well as charging it. Pawn shops do not. So how is a pawn shop a bank anyways?

soundboy

 

[Art Ludgren]

Guarantee of bankis

Oki , fait enought for me.
But how will MA deal with people selling share of their "society" ?
Because , if anshe dont stop very soon all that , and pay back player.... you will see , 50 people sending a support because they will sell share for their societty.
Now we will see if MA got guts or not...
Will you ask to anshe stop her system outside the MA bank system ( wich is what you stated in the info) , or will MA lets her continue her course ?
If you lets her continue her course , will MA create a "list" of trusted player (like anshe) , and will ansure the security , and the back up of those player ?

And if Anshe offers PED to L$ conversions is MA making Guarantees about us getting our $L in <other game>??? I mean they are saying they are guaranteeing the banks business!

Art

 

[Art Ludgren]

You charge your friends interest? Nice friend you are. And only 10% a month, how nice of you!



This isn't a game, never was.

In the US there is no law against making private loans. There are rules about "usury" which specify maximum interest rates that can be charged. In the case of large loans between friends, if the interest rate is not high enough the IRS looks at the loan as a gift and can classify it as income to the borrower in one year In fact check out your yellow pages for "pay day" loans, completely unregulated in almost all states still!!!

As far as the it is a game or not, since there is not a PVP zone anywhere near where I live ( leagal where you do not go to jail if caught ) I vote for EU being a game and again the comparison with real life not valid.

 

[Art Ludgren]

Champagne or Kool-Aid??

Ok, sry for posting so much first of all, but a crazy idea came to my mind.
There may be ways around this latest statement that MA made to protect its investors. We are talking in terms of "business" and "publicity", etc. But we dont necesarilly need to call them a business, they can just be "helpers" for example, that would get a profit of their own for helping a friend.
Here are some premises:
1. Loaning between friends is not "targeted" by MA, therefore OK.
2. Akoz, Cindy and Teilik are well-known, respected players with lots of friends.
3. These 3 guys have the meanings to loan stuff to other players, in this case, "friends". They also are willing to loan stuff to them.
4. Their "friends" can "brag around EF or other places of how much they have been helped by them", etc, etc.
The conclusion is: CBE can continue what they are doing if they are changing some "semantics". Afterall, all trades are final between normal people when not talking about business, right?


Edit: On a side note: MA could just make a difference between official banks and unofficial ones and leave us the freedom to choose.
They could warn the newbies that unofficial banks are not secured and that is that! But ... MA cant do that ... they already drank the champagne I am afraid... if u know what I mean...

No it seems they have drank from the Communist Kool Aid fountain!!!

 

[Art Ludgren]

We lose all trust in you more than anyone will ever meet in game.


This should have been something you should have done prior to the banking system. The fact that you held a blind eye policy to scamming prior to this just make your comapny look like fools and harsh.

Seeing the banking licenses offered made me nervous about the services I offered through ArtsFlights.com ( see greyed out loan services area ) Geeze I was offering 1/4% for every 10 day period. But when I saw that the banking licenses WOULD eventually happen I started making my plans to get out of Dodge. I could not imagine that MA could take big $$$ for banking licenses and let pawn shops and private lenders flourish, I read the word "exclusive" and figured it would come to something like this. One of my disappointments is that they did not elaborate more on this up front.





Art

 

[Art Ludgren]

Banking Line

I was planning to change my path in this universe and to start my own small business. In order to start it (and maintain it) i would have used the "banking system" official or non official.

I studied carefull the offers of CBE and thought it was a very good option for me. Now as i see it CBE is no more an option and i will be forced to use one of the 5 "official bankers". If you look carefully on those 5, only 1 of them is a known and active member of our community.

So honestly where is MY RIGHT to choose ?

What will be next MA ? A banking line such as pilots do ?

It is NOT NEXT it IS HERE, one each in 5 different places.

 

[Naverith]

This whole thread is superfluous (meaning above that which is needed or useful). Marco says what he's paid to say, whether or not it's truthful, and I have one thing to say to him and any other MA rep that spreads their propaganda to us:

DON'T PISS DOWN MY BACK AND CALL IT RAIN!

We aren't idiots here (though sometimes, especially when I look at my credit card bills and my deposits to MA, I have doubts!). We KNOW the truth about your (so called) "protection to new players". And it's simple:

YOU LIE!

The truth is (again) simple and uncomplicated, and fully expected, and (in my book) proper:

You are protecting those who were willing enough to pay you thousands of dollars for a "virtual pawn shop" (call'em "banks" if you want). These people can cause all kinds of trouble to MA if their asses aren't kissed and their massive investments are't given highest priority.

The banks paid for, not only a building and a right to loan money for small lines of programming (items), but they were also offered that monopoly.

If you didn't like the "Pilot's Mafia" you're sure as hell not going to like this Banking Cartel.

And don't think you can get around this monopoly by "trading amoungst friends" as Ma can now afford to have one employee devoted to key-word scans of logs to see who is "violating their trade rules".

I have nothing against individuals setting up businesses in-game (as long as it's ethical and not a scam), like these banks. The disgusting part is when you FORCE US TO NOT COMPETE BY MEANS OF THREATS!

That is Socialism, and is as evil in game as in real life.

MA is in business to make money. PERIOD. They are NOT here for us "to enjoy the game" or to "have fun". Every action they do is geared toward that end, and this is as it should be for any business.

I, for one, would never even THINK about using a pawnshop. These banks are a farce and will harm, not only the bank owners, but anyone who is stupid enough to make use of them (at least, in the manner that they are being used now). Maybe, when the banks income doesn't meet expectations, they'll reconsider their actions. We'll see.

 

[Art Ludgren]

<stuff deleted to save space>

MA is in business to make money. PERIOD. They are NOT here for us "to enjoy the game" or to "have fun". Every action they do is geared toward that end, and this is as it should be for any business.

I, for one, would never even THINK about using a pawnshop. These banks are a farce and will harm, not only the bank owners, but anyone who is stupid enough to make use of them (at least, in the manner that they are being used now). Maybe, when the banks income doesn't meet expectations, they'll reconsider their actions. We'll see.

Actually you are partially right and partially wrong here, MA is in business that is correct, BUT it is in their utmost self interest to see that we have fun else we will stop playing the game and they will be out of business.

 

[soundboy]

BUT it is in their utmost self interest to see that we have fun else we will stop playing the game and they will be out of business.

Question is when will MA learn and understand this?

 

[Skippie]

i loaned my mentor 300 ped recently since she had nothing left from bad loot streaks and wanted to work to rebuild her ped card. i've done it 100 times for her at least.

does this mean i am due a lock?

fuck it, after two days of soc chat bugs, getting stuck in the trade terminal and locker, not being able to trade items back in forth, watching my soc mates log in and out on some crazy bug, half of everybody i know landed at cnd today and couldn't get down. i say lock me up, fine. i'm game for it, i guess.

beats trying to play the game around the same vu bugs i've seen for almost two years now.

ma, i know you signed a great marketing deal with a communist government the other day, but issuing such a statement like this one is akin to fascism and you need your head examined if you stick to this weak ass move to "protect" your bank licenses. if you didn't have the forsight to know that ppl in the community would move to not pay you 1.6-1.95 million peds for the "right" to lend money, i suggest you get a grip and lock and load or grow some balls.

might as well ban all these ppl today for relogging to cnd and not paying a pilot to up or down, it's about as sensible.

 

[Naverith]

There is a concept in business (like in Governments) called "acceptable collateral losses". Like dropping a bomb to kill one person. The fact that 55 innocent civilians were also killed would be called "acceptable collateral losses".

It means, in a simplified manner, that losses are both accepted and expected. Thanks to advertising, EU gets hundreds of new people depositing daily, so if MA pisses off a few of us older players, they could care less. They accept their losses, as there's always a dozen others to take that one person's place.

So MA has no need to make this game any more "interesting or fun" then it is.

How do you cook a frog? If you throw the live frog into a pot of hot water it'll jump out. If you put the frog into a pot of cold water (then turn the heat on low), he'll just sit there as it slowly heats up, eventually killing him.

MA is just turning the heat up.

Ribbit - ribbit - croak!

 

[Tussi]

Question is when will MA learn and understand this?

Hopefully sooner than later, but (given the last 1 1/2 year i witnessed as a valid sample) sadly more likely never.

Tussi

 

[wizzszz]

Besides this:

YOU LIE!

and that:

...FORCE US TO NOT COMPETE BY MEANS OF THREATS!

Am I the only one who is wondering about some other things???

MA lies, they always did, always will... ( here, for instance)

But:
If a nice business idea will pop up in my mind one day,
and i'm gonna start it and earn a lot of peds...

Won't MA come then as well and just COPY my idea,
sell damn expensive "LICENSES" for what i have done and
once they are sold, they make my business ILLEGAL without license...
(And adding some fees to it, ofc...)

So i will be forced to either buy a license for my very own business,
or simply shut it down to avoid being locked!!!

We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe...

Too late, MA, too late...

The funeral march for ANY free enterprise inside Entropia Universe already rings in my ears...

 

[Vap0r]

Just to play the other side of the fence for a brief moment in time-
As a representative of Mindark, what would you tell the 5 investors that dumped all that money into buying a EXCLUSIVE license? Uh, sorry but your really not going to be competitive with all of the fees you will pay, its not really exclusive, we are sorry? I think not. It's MA's house, their rules, nobody is forcing you to play.
I cant say I agree 100% with the way they do things but then again, if everyone was happy they would certainly miss the 80% turn over mark and we would see bigger and more frequent nerfs.

/shrug
Seriously, what would you do?

 

[wizzszz]

Seriously, what would you do?

Not sell banks if someone already made one up ingame and get some ideas on my own???

/Edit:

Or at least, not make them exclusive, and let the potential bank buyers decide whether to accept the competitors as given or to not buy a license??!!!

And as i first read it, i thought the licenses are only excluse that way that MA won't issue more banking licenses for a 2 years period...

 

[Cindywood]

Just to play the other side of the fence for a brief moment in time-
As a representative of Mindark, what would you tell the 5 investors that dumped all that money into buying a EXCLUSIVE license? Uh, sorry but your really not going to be competitive with all of the fees you will pay, its not really exclusive, we are sorry? I think not. It's MA's house, their rules, nobody is forcing you to play.
I cant say I agree 100% with the way they do things but then again, if everyone was happy they would certainly miss the 80% turn over mark and we would see bigger and more frequent nerfs.

/shrug
Seriously, what would you do?

I would start with saying that from the start. Not starting with saying its "Okey" Then just threat with bann.

 

[Etopia]

Just to play the other side of the fence for a brief moment in time-
As a representative of Mindark, what would you tell the 5 investors that dumped all that money into buying a EXCLUSIVE license? Uh, sorry but your really not going to be competitive with all of the fees you will pay, its not really exclusive, we are sorry? I think not. It's MA's house, their rules, nobody is forcing you to play.
I cant say I agree 100% with the way they do things but then again, if everyone was happy they would certainly miss the 80% turn over mark and we would see bigger and more frequent nerfs.

/shrug
Seriously, what would you do?

I am not against MA forbiden the liscence competitor..
I am against the way they say it it to me.
It an direct insult to my inteligence...
Protect us against scamer... Who is dumb enought to bielive that shit? show me that guy , i have item to sell him...
Now , MA say its prevention for scamer... oki , fair enought ... now i whant them to lock , any people , and i mean all , that try to make anything in EU that go with money and is not throught the bank system made by MA.
I dont care who thet perqson is , anshe or any other , lets lock all entreprener in EU...

OR MA need grow a pair of balls , and say stuff cleary...
Its very very boring and insulting the way they speak to us...

They kinda never say anything , and they open their mouth , it to something like " hey sheep , i have dumb word to say you so you go bag in field and eat grass"...

 

[Skippie]

I am not against MA forbiden the liscence competitor..
I am against the way they say it it to me.
It an direct insult to my inteligence...

best thing i have ever seen you type, etopia, and believe me i am a big fan of your work.

+rep from me, again, as always

 

[RidingDirty]

Just to play the other side of the fence for a brief moment in time-
As a representative of Mindark, what would you tell the 5 investors that dumped all that money into buying a EXCLUSIVE license? Uh, sorry but your really not going to be competitive with all of the fees you will pay, its not really exclusive, we are sorry? I think not. It's MA's house, their rules, nobody is forcing you to play.
I cant say I agree 100% with the way they do things but then again, if everyone was happy they would certainly miss the 80% turn over mark and we would see bigger and more frequent nerfs.

/shrug
Seriously, what would you do?

Quite easy:

Haha! You've been fucked! Now join the rest of the playerbase!

 

[Skippie]

as someone that owns a major investment, if 36 traders organized outside my mall and offered a private tax free mall, i would be upset, but i would suck it up, grow some balls and continue to do what i am doing to make my in game investment the best it can be

ppl want to do business with ppl they like and trust.

i never viewed the bank licenses as anything i was interested in putting money to. zzzzz. if lending money was such a bright idea, it could be done outside of an in game investment. and yes, while ppl paid 1.6-1.95 million peds for the right to do "official" banking, those who paid 0 for the right should not be bullied or forced out of business by the game's designers. it's bullshit today, and if they enforce their statement, it's bullshit tomorrow.

with this sort of thinking, i loose interest in being involved with this game, very quickly. i think many of us do. watch where you step mind ark, you may get more than dung on your urban nomad walkers tossing out crap like this for the rest of us to navigate through. it's poop.

 

[LuckyStrike]

Not sell banks if someone already made one up ingame and get some ideas on my own???

/Edit:

Or at least, not make them exclusive, and let the potential bank buyers decide whether to accept the competitors as given or to not buy a license??!!!

And as i first read it, i thought the licenses are only excluse that way that MA won't issue more banking licenses for a 2 years period...

Are you serious?

Do you think Akoz and Teilk created the idea of secured loans? LOL

I'd bet MA had this in the pipeline for quite a while before releasing it.

This is not a novel idea. MA did not "steal" this idea from the CBE.

In fact if you know more of the details you would see that the opposite is happening-

One of the losers of the banking license auctions (Akoz) got left out of the party, so he decided to make a competing service without a license (and without the security the licensed banks will have). He then teamed up with Teilk, who ran a small time loan service for a few months.

If anyone here is guilty of being a "sore loser", it's Akoz.

 

[DoctorH]

If you are not happy.........

Don't forget your most powerful voice is your ped card. Unhappy with the way the bank system is being developed; refrain from using it until it is a system that you approve of. No one forces us to use a bank, hunt on any land area, spend in any malls and shops or even use the auction. I suggest we collectively adopt a policy of putting our money where our mouth is. If you don't like the banking system; don't use banks and let the bankowners enjoy their investments they made without you. It's simple really........
Doc