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FruSnabel

FruSnabel

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!Warning: Quite long read!
(I am not whining about falling prices or anything like that, that is not what this thread is about. Read it thoroughly please)

I started my hunting log about a week ago (called FruSnabel’s Secret Log) and I have now closed it. I started EU again a year ago after a very long absence with my empty sold out avatar. So this year I’ve worked hard to try to get back on track and get skills up, so just for skilling and having fun I hunted some Cornundacaudas with a Kesmek Slo (L) to get my melee skills up to reunlock MDA (check) :) and Martial Arts (not check yet) :(. I thought it went very well after I burned through a whole Kesmek so I decided to log all my hunting stats and see how well I was doing.

Turns out after a few rounds that I am profiting like an animal! The thing that made me profit so much was that I looted 200-300 Blazar Fragments and about 25-35 Tier 1 Components after every sword. A round costs: One Kesmek Slo (L) (355 PED, 367 PED with MU) and about 12 PEDs of decay on my Gremlin (without plates) and a Vivo-t1. With this equipment and with this mob even after a bad run I always profited with the MU, and after a TT profit run, I had VERY good results. Yay! Arbitrage opportunity I thought! :)

This is when I started my “Secret Log”, to try to tease the community with my great profits and not telling you what, where, how or when I hunted. Both the profit and the interest for my log got left out and I have no need or wish to keep my log anymore. The two good MU items (Tier 1 Component and Blazar Fragments) was the whole reason I profited, without them I would almost always loose (90% of the time).

The MU for Tier 1 Components was less then a week ago ~1000%, so with 25-35 Tier 1 Components I got about 30 PEDs per hunt for them. The Blazar Fragments sold for >999999% and I always sold 200 Blazar Fragments at a time for 23 PEDs. Plus the two oils you get from Cornundacauda which sells for 105% and all the skin and wool you get a lot of nice MU. But it was always the Tier 1 and Blazar who saved me.

!!!TO THE POINT!!! Now today, Blazar Fragments sells for about 300000% and Tier 1 Components sells for 450%! What happened to the market in just a few days?! I have continued to hunt and I get about the same results, 200-300 Blazar and 25-35 Tier 1 Components. This (according to my stats) gets me to think that the drop rate has not gone up, though the demand fell a lot recently and made prices fall drastically. Blazars sold almost instantly for me at over 999999% just a few days ago.

What I wonder with these falling demands and prices is:

Does people even want to tier up their items?

Are Auktuma and the “Menacing Female Conquistador” totally wasting their PEDs crafting their asses off to get the high lvl enhancer BPs?

Is the whole Tier system a big piece of crap now after it has been here for a while and has settled in everyones mind, why else is the demand falling so fast?

Has MA made a system that is of no interest to the community at all?

Discuss :)
 
Blazar droprate went from 1 max to 19 max

So near enough 20x increase in the amount being looted in a very short time.

Market saturation.


I'd imagine blazar price may achieve parity with sweat shortly (ie 1000 = 5 Ped)
 
frags had insane high prices nobody dared to touched it. Now tiering becomes cheaper. Also frags are needed to craft enchancers. in the beginn they where lik 50 ped clicks lol.. now it's a lot less
 
tiers made to fuel greed

all the new bullshit "inventions" to the game are mostly "crap", ideal for increasing money drain before Christmas and now most smart people understand it is just a bullshit!

why is every word i tell a profanity? just because marco greed and mindark has made this game full of shit!

of course, i admire the company for fucking everybody up and making huge profit on idiots who dream about "winning" anything in this loser game :L

keep on filling mindark's and my pockets, nubs
 
Mega said:
Blazar droprate went from 1 max to 19 max

So near enough 20x increase in the amount being looted in a very short time.

Market saturation.


I'd imagine blazar price may achieve parity with sweat at this rate (1000 = 5 Ped)
Click to expand...

Yes that is correct but I started my hunting after the droprate went up. The market fell a lot then, fast. But then it stopped up and it was quite stable for some weeks, all during the time i was hunting, to now just take a big dive.
 
The fact you must RISK your item for such a small boost in stats....is....well....f#@king stupid....
 
it's only been a few days that the drop was increased to 19. The max was 9 for most of the time you were hunting. It's obvious from the market graph on blazar when the changes were made. Several people in the community asked for the droprate to be increased as well which would lead me to belive that, in fact, the community IS interested in Tiering.
 
Was it ever something else with a new thing? People jump on it coz its hot, but discover later its not top.
 
I think most players have seen this tier things are just bullshit, its just another way to put nonsence loot in your window imo:rolleyes:
 
Well the enhancer prices will come down, and that's propably when the prices will settle.

At the moment crafting an enhancer costs 3-5 peds and the crafters have asked as much as 60 peds per enhancer. I'm sure that when the price actually drops to a reasonable level people use them.

But for them to drop in price the components need to drop too, tier 1 components and blazar fragments are the most ped-demanding parts of the craft.
 
Karmic said:
it's only been a few days that the drop was increased to 19. The max was 9 for most of the time you were hunting. It's obvious from the market graph on blazar when the changes were made. Several people in the community asked for the droprate to be increased as well which would lead me to belive that, in fact, the community IS interested in Tiering.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, I stand corrected. I had 9 as max in the beginning. Though I got about 200 blazer after every Kesmek anyway :)
 
tiering is great :D i'm up on tier 3 on my apis now and it's nice :D
 
actually i yhink we are very interested in tiers, i know i am.

But i'm totally not intersted in tiers at current markups, as soon as blazers are at a pec a piece or less i will seriously start looking into it, just takes a bit of patience.
 
FruSnabel said:
Ah yes, I stand corrected. I had 9 as max in the beginning. Though I got about 200 blazer after every Kesmek anyway :)
Click to expand...

I managed to get around 600 blazers with one Kesmek Slo (L) on Faucervixes, isn't that a little too much? :laugh:
 
the drop rate was far too low to start, along with a rush from a few to explore the new system, meant very high prices. the drop rate increases, but the enhancers themselves are not cheap enough lowers demand, so the prices plummet.
 
A Window of Opportunity

A Window of Opportunity - Closed

The price of Blazers and Tier One components was not compatible with any kind of useful tiering system. The early adopters paid a high price (as they always do) to be first.

Drops rates have increased which will lead to Enhancers whose cost will, in time, come more into balance with their benefits, which is how it should be. Now that prices are falling, tiering activity will only increase.

The OP was fortunate to take advantage of the opportunity, but crazy if he thought it would last. These types of easy money looting opportunities usually end, either due to 'everyone else' doing it, or to balancing changes. In this case it was the later.

:beerchug:

Miles

p.s. Blazers will still be better than a 'no loot' message
 
E.K.x said:
The fact you must RISK your item for such a small boost in stats....is....well....f#@king stupid....
Click to expand...

Only if you tier up unl items !!

The large majority of EU hunters use L weapons and as such, they, if lucky with the TIR of their weapon, will be able to put nice enhancers on their L guns.

The whole point of risking the 2nd item was an attempt to prevent the tiering of UNL weapons. I mean, you think MA wanted to bring in a system that increased the eco and dam/sec of the mod merc and IMKII ?

Now imagine LR66's with multiple damage increasers on them at the LG and wastelander events. Thats what these enhancers are all about
 
I think it is better to get some blazars instead of a no-looter.
Even if you only get them around 30% of the time, it is way better then absolutely nothing.
If the price goes down for enhancers a bit further, the will really become attractive to have.
Paid around 20 PEDs for 5 accuracy enhancers, still a bit to high for 20% more criticals and does not seem to be really noticable, but at least already a price where you can at least try them without biting your behind because of the random breaking.

One thing I noticed was that especially the most crafted guns like P5 and Apis have really slow tier ups, my record was tier 3 on an Apis (two shots before it broke).
 
The community is not interested in Tiering items because by and large they are short sighted, and many cannot or will not see the value in tiering an item to its fullest extent.

This creates a current market where:

1) Tiering is too expensive to start
2) Tiering costs are not regained when an item is sold due to a tiered item posessing only curiosity value.
3) The only tiered items available will consequently be low level items that are cheap to produce and easy to lose.

The Tiering system will only be effective 5+ years from now, if the game is still running. By then a small handful of people will have tiered up reasonably valued unL items and shown they can reap a tremendous profit while using them. The items will likely not be for sale due to high markup and limited quantities, and many of the rank and file will once again offer complaints that the newly rich people with tiered weapons are all employees of MA, who are in on the cash scam.

Such is the way it works.

I frankly have my doubts that things will work out in such a positive way. People like their instant fixes. Tiering is not such a thing, its a very long range position to be taking. In essence you are saying "Im planning on playing for the next 10 years." Since most of us wont be, Tiering remains both unimpressive and impractical for the average user.

The question we should be asking is:

Did MA plan tiering to be a quick fix for short term players and fail, or have they designed something in a way as to deliberately omit the interests of MMO tourists?

;)
 
new items...

Any new items introduced in to the game ALWAYS have higher markup at first than later once people's interest in them goes down...

This is happening with tier stuff now...

In the past it happened with...

introduction of SIB items...

introduction of Sib mellee item blueprints (man I got screwed on buying that rustic slo bp when it first came out - lost an entire ghost armor to the TT after one too many drinks and seeing that bp haunt me in the auction)...

even resettlement containers are not cheaper than when they first appeared...

It's not abnormal. It's a trend. If you ever loot something new, get rid of it in 48 hours or it'll go down in value!
 
Risk

My take is that the high % markup intially discouraged a lot of people from engaging with this element of the game - they saw it as something for the ubers.

Since the change in the drop rate some of the key risk factors have stayed the same: tiering up UL items seems to still involve at least one item with a high % markup, it costs + 50 ped (a global) to tier up an item and you risk losing your UL item.


I think a fair few people have had their 'fingers burnt' with the process.


Most importantly the perception is that the marginal gain from tiering up does not seem to outweigh the marginal cost from either tiering up or using enhancers.
 
P-J said:
My take is that the high % markup intially discouraged a lot of people from engaging with this element of the game - they saw it as something for the ubers.

Since the change in the drop rate some of the key risk factors have stayed the same: tiering up UL items seems to still involve at least one item with a high % markup, it costs + 50 ped (a global) to tier up an item and you risk losing your UL item.


I think a fair few people have had their 'fingers burnt' with the process.


Most importantly the perception is that the marginal gain from tiering up does not seem to outweigh the marginal cost from either tiering up or using enhancers.
Click to expand...

I think they should change the possibility of items destroying or add that replicator-thingy :)
 
I don't want to tier my unlimited weapons because enhancers die randomly.
If they had a fixed usage (amount of times used before they die) I would tier up.
 
Hi there,

as it happen always - people get addicted to get and test any new items. Goal is to get data about new items and be able to build later plans if any interest after analysis of data. It's not surprise that if you want new information quick - you should pay to speed up process. As well if there is high demand/competition - that also boosts expenses. It wasn't exclusion with enhancers and tiering. Crafters were in addict to get blueprints for new items, craft it and predict further go of new technologies and people were in haste to get statistics on new enhancers, to test it in various situations. Gaining first information is high advantage. So, what we seen were ubnormal high prices on materials and enhancers.

I could see now that still is long way to get all info about new items due to high variance of stats on items (especialy - for decay) - one will need to get MEAN of decay to value QUALITY of item. Quality of new items will be definitor of their price after all that addict/digging_for_info period passed what we have at the moment.

According to my observations and data (several to mention: blazar fragments got 0.00 TT value, "empty enhancers" used on craft are from trade terminal, enhancers got low TT value), enhancers will be of massive use, what means massive production and relatively low prices (quality of enhancers will be definitor).

All emotions atm about decayed enhancers on 1 click brings me just smiley. You know that for crafter on start of that new technologies 1 click was worth more than 50 PED. Now you could imagine I decided to be a crafter of enhancers and did my very first click and got failure. 50 PED wasted!!! :) But does it mean that second, third .... n-th clicks will be same. One could see that MEAN value is needed to predict to decide on how good/bad this craft is, one could see that it is needed to predict what components of economy equation will change in time and how. Same is with enhancers - we need many data points to findout an average (mean). That's why I started thread on EF to make some show on how to get value for finder depth I enhancers...

It will take time for sure but I could say enhancers will be as attractive as OA101s are for crafters or newcommer miners. What enhancers will mean for us that will depend on your knowledge and opinion. One could get 200% damage putting 10 damage enhancers onto gun but others could get same 200% by making team with their friends; one could wait patiently until upgrade from TK220 to TK320, but other man isn't that patient and will put 1 or more finder depth enhancers to have same TK320 statistics on his/her TK220 or even kick TK320 user by putting more depth enhancers; one is OK with slow drilling of 1k ped oil claim, but other - will slap excavator speed enhancers and will use saved time for different activities. New technologies --> new advantages. If it's not for you, then for other man. It will find the users. And they will build market.

Peace people,
auk
 
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wise words as usual auktuma


i am getting a bit tired with ppl that want to remove the second item
from the recipe

if that to much risk for your wallet then dont do it
some ppl already have done it with imk2 and MM

if ma would remove the second item then the balance of items would be off
we will see how tiering is in 6 months
 
SKULL said:
if that to much risk for your wallet then dont do it
some ppl already have done it with imk2 and MM
Click to expand...

there are always people who would like to get advances for free, with no risk, with no expenses. With "traders" there will always be "bargaining" phase, just I hope FPC team will stay strong and won't force newcommer to pay more. Sounds not that fair when people who havent cool unlimited items will be forced to run their limited gear again and again starting from tier 0... Balance should be and there should be price for any advantages
 
Well tbh......

I tried a depth enhancer for maybe 230 drops, took it off and since it has sat in storage my mining improved. I had an abysmal hit rate over my sample drops and found a lot of lyst, so for the moment i won't use them (most drops on a maxed Z25, 20 pros).

Most people i think are in a wait and see what they do situation, waiting for some signal that these things actually help them. Solid tests and knowledge of if they will improve eco, difference in finds etc.

Maybe i'll try again in a month or so, small sample size i know but the test was really bad. I love the idea of enhancers, but i dislike this random uses thing; kind of makes using them a big gamble.






.
 
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Auktuma said:
there are always people who would like to get advances for free, with no risk, with no expenses. With "traders" there will always be "bargaining" phase, just I hope FPC team will stay strong and won't force newcommer to pay more. Sounds not that fair when people who havent cool unlimited items will be forced to run their limited gear again and again starting from tier 0... Balance should be and there should be price for any advantages
Click to expand...

I'm sure it is rather easy for MA to drop L items with sockets already if they will decide so. =)

as for the thread starter's question - well, how many of us are interested in :
1. wasting 40 ped on a single use of enhancer on mining tools or the same amount of weapon enhancer which gives a rather dung worth of bonus for a very short time,
2. risk their RL money (100 ped, 1k ped, 100k ped, whichever sum) with losing the secondary item?

gamblers? yes, we have some of those. many will risk, some of them will lose, but the house will always win if gambling is involved and that is the main point behind the socketing - new level of gambling in hunting and mining section ;)

why am I having the feeling that the more gambling possibilities has been added to this "product" or project, the less people believe in it and the more it turns the ship's bottom up... :whistle:


J.
 
I am sure the enhancers will have a big use in the future. But the price on fragments and the ores/enmatters must down a bit more to make the crafters able to craft the enhancers to a price that is more price worthy.
 
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