Is it possible to (consistently) profit with an Imp. Mk.II + Mod. FAP?

[Grading]

This graph, complied last year, shows the base loot (excluding minis and globals) of 2500 Flax young. The x axsis shows the total tt-cost to kill vs the tt-base loot. The red line shows the 100% tt return line. What it shows is that it cost this hunter between 7.5 to 12 Ped to kill a Falx young with a lvl 70/70 Imp MKII, Mod Fap and I forget what aromor he used. The base loot was distributed in four distinct bands that critically remained level accross the cost to kill range. So you can see that on the top left of the distribution Falx were killed for 7.5 to 9.5 ped but gave base loot higher than the cost to kill. This is not due to a mini as they start around the 30Ped. Irrispective of the cost to kill the base loot tops out at ca. 9.5 Ped.

So the cheaper, more eco you can kill a Falx young, the greater the chance you will get a base loot greater than the tt cost to kill. As the weapon becomes more eco (high level) the distribution moves to the left but the loot bands stay the same base valve.

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

I take it that Globals, Minis etc were not included in this data? Do you know approximately what the % return was including them because clearly there was a large loss without them.

 

[Qwackers]

This is really interesting, but I have no idea what you mean by "base loot".

Base loot is the normal most common loot you get that does not give a mini or global/ATH. This could be a no loot, which did not happen for Falx up to the approximate cost to kill.

I take it that Globals, Minis etc were not included in this data? Do you know approximately what the % return was including them because clearly there was a large loss without them.

It was never stated but of cause there would have been minis and globals to add to that number. If you assume that for the average players, global frequency and magnatutude are the same; there is evidance for this in the trackers; the over all return would be in the 90%+ region. Remember this was only a lvl 70/70 Imp MKII @ ca. 3.0 dmg/pec so in that respect nothing special.

The point is this, that during a micro analysis, for a none fast regen mob such as Falx, the base loot was not proportional to the cost to kill for each individual mob. The lower the cost to kill through either less misses, less fappin, more criticals or higher average damage, i.e. greater eco the greater the chance of receiving a higher % tt return on that single mob.

So at the macro scale where minis, globals and HoFs can be added, assuming eco/equipment does not influance global frequency or magnitude we could say for example that this gaves a 95% tt-return. Then by adjusting the eco of the stetup by say chiping in to lvl 80/80 or out to lvl 60/60 the cost to kill the individual falx would either reduce or increase as a result of it taking less shots or more shots to kill. The distribution of points would spread out tot he left and right but the loot bands would stay level, excluding regen. This purposeful shift in the tt cost to kill would not be reflected in the base loot as you wold still get between 1.5-9.5 Ped loot per mob. Assuming there is no chnage in globals as a result of this the % tt return would either increase to say 97% for 80/80 or decrease to say 93% for 60/60. These +/- values are just example figures not connected to real data.

 

[In Love With]

a couple of thoughts here

1.) Anyone noticed that no uber owning that kind of equipment has answered here?

That alone should give you the answer you are after ...

If the average Joe manages to gain 90% tt value with 5% markup, then an uber with 300hp and maxed stats on the gun/fap will manage to gain something MORE than 90% (lets say 95%) and the markup will be higher as well as there are more markup items dropping from high end mobs then from hunting snables (only the amount of esi's is enough to make a difference). So an uber might still only scrape 95% tt return BUT that is 5% more and give another 2-3% on markup and ... BAM you are profiting (and that is disregarding the skill gain as a nice extra)

2.) Pham, though arrogant as he was, camped CP ... His LWT alone was something like 16.000 pts and he profited so much that he could finance a livinging from it. But at one point, MindArk changed the loot system (there must have been a bonus for bigger mobs earlier in the game) and Pham chipped out, sold out and is gone now

So that tells me that it might still be able to profit a little on that setup, but not in the way it used to be.


Bottom line, if you spend something like 50.000 Dollar plus whatever else to max that weapon I think its only natural that you will come out better vs. the average Joe, but since there are quite a few of those guns/faps out, MindArk surely has rebalanced the loot to accomodate that and even though players like Star won't play at a loss, its prolly still more profitable to flip burgers at MD vs. playing for a living


... just my 2 cents ...

Angel

 

[Lezardine]

[...]but since there are quite a few of those guns/faps out, MindArk surely has rebalanced the loot to accomodate that and even though players like Star won't play at a loss, its prolly still more profitable to flip burgers at MD vs. playing for a living


... just my 2 cents ...

Angel

Agreed on that, especially the burger flipping at MD part
We have seen MA "adjusting" the economy over the years....so you're probably right

 

[xillonz]

Qwackers: So if a mini is 30 PED+, base loot is any loot < 30 PED?


----------------


It could roughly be worked out. If we know that an eco of 2.88 gives about 90% TT return (do we?) then an eco of > 3.2 is required to pass 100%.

This is only just the eco of the ImkII, so take that what you will.

 

[Few Scars]

This is something I was wondering. Obviously these two items are pretty much the best of the best, so this got me wondering: is it possibly to regularly profit with these two items? From what I have read/heard, Entropia is designed so that players will make ~90% return in the long run, but that would have to vary based on the different weapon/FAP/armor combinations. Since I don't know the math behind the 90% figure, I am wondering if having these two uber items would allow a person to regularly profit from hunting. Because if not, what's the point of spending over 450K PED on two items? If all you're doing is say making your return ~99% instead of 90%, how is that worth it?

If someone can explain the math behind the returns, that may be helpful.

I dont know, but it would be nice if a few more Imp MkII and Mod FAPs dropped in the loot once a year at least!

 

[JohnCapital]

Base loot is the normal most common loot you get that does not give a mini or global/ATH...

The point is this, that during a micro analysis...

So at the macro scale...

Um, interesting. Really.

Quick question: What about small mobs vs high maturity of same mob?

For example, I spent almost 3k peds doing the daika mission, almost all young-old. Out of the last ~13,000 mobs I had... Not. One. Global. Not one. None. At all.

However hunting daika stalkers, that same turn over gives me ~23 globals (Based on having done contests @ the big daika LA)

Guess what my TT return on both young and stalkers is?

Anyone noticed that no uber owning that kind of equipment has answered here?

They're too busy playing the game and winning to bother with the forum.

(Or they're on "break" until things get better, and we won't see them for another few months.)

 

[Zeke Sirrus]

Bottom line, if you spend something like 50.000 Dollar plus whatever else to max that weapon I think its only natural that you will come out better vs. the average Joe, but since there are quite a few of those guns/faps out, MindArk surely has rebalanced the loot to accomodate that and even though players like Star won't play at a loss, its prolly still more profitable to flip burgers at MD vs. playing for a livingl

Star has said that he profits in the globals/hofs with MU loot, not on forum but in his Stargazing Chat room. He uses his aimk2 possibly 20-30% of the time while the mob moves in then switches to his high tier foeripper with enhancers.

You could speculate that the large eco difference between his aimk2 and foeripper is not enough to profit otherwise he would exclusively use the aimk2. Killspeed is what is important to him so he can achieve a high turnover looking for the global/hof with MU. Whether he was talking specifically about Prot due to the high regen I am not certain. It is possible to now extend that to smaller mobs like atrox and use high powered weapons to look in a larger amount of them (within the same time period) for the esi etc as opposed to killing each individual trox cheaply.

Obviously it would be better if he commented himself but I think from watching his strategy you can work it out for yourself.

 

[girtsn]

My post on IMK2 and base loot increase based on skills should be quite relevant (link bellow). It also gives you some insight into my losses with it. Unless something changes a lot, the return has been somewhere between 88% and 95% including the markup in the last 3 months using IMK2 (hit 7.4/dmg 7.7 - that varies between 7k to 15k losses per month considering around 4.5kpeds turnover per day. And the losses should drop by 4.5k when reaching 10/10.
I have also checked the dmg/pec recently with a friend who is 10/10 on imk2, the numbers match those mentioned in entropedia.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ge-vs.-loot-relation-on-SIB-weapons&p=2676742

Base loot is the normal most common loot you get that does not give a mini or global/ATH. This could be a no loot, which did not happen for Falx up to the approximate cost to kill.



It was never stated but of cause there would have been minis and globals to add to that number. If you assume that for the average players, global frequency and magnatutude are the same; there is evidance for this in the trackers; the over all return would be in the 90%+ region. Remember this was only a lvl 70/70 Imp MKII @ ca. 3.0 dmg/pec so in that respect nothing special.

The point is this, that during a micro analysis, for a none fast regen mob such as Falx, the base loot was not proportional to the cost to kill for each individual mob. The lower the cost to kill through either less misses, less fappin, more criticals or higher average damage, i.e. greater eco the greater the chance of receiving a higher % tt return on that single mob.

So at the macro scale where minis, globals and HoFs can be added, assuming eco/equipment does not influance global frequency or magnitude we could say for example that this gaves a 95% tt-return. Then by adjusting the eco of the stetup by say chiping in to lvl 80/80 or out to lvl 60/60 the cost to kill the individual falx would either reduce or increase as a result of it taking less shots or more shots to kill. The distribution of points would spread out tot he left and right but the loot bands would stay level, excluding regen. This purposeful shift in the tt cost to kill would not be reflected in the base loot as you wold still get between 1.5-9.5 Ped loot per mob. Assuming there is no chnage in globals as a result of this the % tt return would either increase to say 97% for 80/80 or decrease to say 93% for 60/60. These +/- values are just example figures not connected to real data.

 

[CodeMonkey]

im under the assumption that its not a matter of what you use, but where and when.

the only really way to do good is to keep track of the time you can play the game, and keep records of all your runs.

then figure out after 3 months when you good times were and only play during them times.

if your at the right place and the right time you will do good on the average.

now this could just be the human in me finding patterns in data, but hell, it worked for me when i tried it in the past,
but it came to pass that i couldnt play during the times that my avatar could do good all the time.

so in the end, if you have the patience to do this type of test for a bit, and only play during the times that you do good,
you will better your chances of always doing good, not profitng all the time, but doing really well.

but of course, we all cant do this tests, nor do most have the patience or the time to spare to play during those good times.

 

[pesa]

I dont know about impMkII but I cant see how a mod fap can be considered eco for normal players:
lets say you loot(ed) one. Then lets say you sell it for 300k ped.
For that money you can pay of $30k (roughly) on your house loan.
Lets say interest on that loan is 5% --> you save $1500/365= 41ped.
U also get more skills with a normal fap. (but ofc the mod fap will save you armor decay by letting you shoot more)

How many players other then star burns through more then 41ped faps per day? I guess many mod fap owners do but not all.

My point is this: if you can manage the same hunting style with faps that costs you less then 41ped per day then mod fap isnt such a good idea. I'm not even sure its a good idea for star, he seems to use his very little since he usually has a fapper.

*now ducking for flames*

 

[pipeboy]

I would just like to see ONE non property owner screenie their withdrawal/deposit log ,even with amounts blacked out showing consistant withdrawals otherwise its ALL just talk to me

 

[Qwackers]

Um, interesting. Really.

Um, for a moderator that's really uncalled for if you take the spirt of Rule 2.2 to heart. All I was doing was passing on findings of a trial data set complied just over a year ago that showed that irrispective of the cost to kill a non regening mob such as Falx Young (2670 hp) the most common 'base' loot remained constant over that range.

So the Imp MKII at 70/70 has an eco of 3.012 dmg/pec so on average the cost to kill should have been 8.86 Ped, which looking at the graph is just about there. The actual average looks to be a few (2-3) shots higher at 9.25-9.50 which may be due to actual misses, time to kill and final shot. It would have taken 58.1 shots (ca 58s + fapping) on average to kill the Falx Young so at least 2 regen cycles at say 5% each per 20 seconds. The total dmg to hp would have been (2670 + (5% + 5%)) = 2937. 2937/3.012 = 9.75 ped to kill. I think that agrees prity well with the data in the graph.

If we take 9.75 Ped as the average to kill a Falx Young you will see loot that ranges from 1.5 - 9.5 Ped plus the minis and globals (not shown) that start at around 30 Ped for Falx Young. Killing a Falx young at this eco gives you a tt return of 15% - 97% per mob.

Maxing the Imp MKII at 100/100 has an eco of 3.280 dmg/pec and a cost to kill of 8.14 Ped in 53.4 shots. This is still at least two regens so (2670 + (5% + 5%)) = 2937. 2937/3.280 = 8.95 ped to kill. Looking at that column in the graph you can see that the loot still ranges from 1.5 - 9.5 Ped this time giving a tt return of 17% - 106% per mob.

Your chance of getting a better tt return increases with better eco on a mob by mob basis.

Quick question: What about small mobs vs high maturity of same mob?

For example, I spent almost 3k peds doing the daika mission, almost all young-old. Out of the last ~13,000 mobs I had... Not. One. Global. Not one. None. At all.

However hunting daika stalkers, that same turn over gives me ~23 globals (Based on having done contests @ the big daika LA)

Guess what my TT return on both young and stalkers is?

When I said 'everyone has an equivalant chance of getting globals' I was referring to hunting the same mob and matturity. If you went out and hunted 3000 odd Falx young-olds you would come prity close to the same number of globals in both number and size unless you hit an Ubber HoF, but that is just luck.

 

[Qwackers]

Qwackers: So if a mini is 30 PED+, base loot is any loot < 30 PED?
----------------
It could roughly be worked out. If we know that an eco of 2.88 gives about 90% TT return (do we?) then an eco of > 3.2 is required to pass 100%.

This is only just the eco of the ImkII, so take that what you will.

When the trial was done you had loots falling in bands. The four 'base loot' bands are clearly shown on the graph. After the 9.5 ped loots no Falx Young mobs gave a loot in the range 10 - 25/30 Ped, which starts the minis and globals which are visible on tracker. Base loot is the loot ranging from No looters to approaching the cost to kill. for big hit point mobs this was easier to see as minis were clearly separated from the 'base loot', or so was the case form Falx Young from that hunter's skills/style.

 

[Vigi]

you'd be making money from other players and not by "playing the game."

Thats what EU is about - making money from other people...

 

[johan roadkill]

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?199681-constant-125-return

maybe this will answer some questions

 

[pipeboy]

neat video.. wheres his depost/withdrawal screenie to back up his claim? i have a 14 inch cock but i'm not gonna show any pictures or let anyone see it ..i do i promise

 

[johan roadkill]

neat video.. wheres his depost/withdrawal screenie to back up his claim? i have a 14 inch cock but i'm not gonna show any pictures or let anyone see it ..i do i promise

ask him lol

 

[pipeboy]

not just him anyone..has ANYONE made more withdrawals than deposits consistantly in last year or 2? no matter what the gear off any proffesion? and can show?

 

[johan roadkill]

not just him anyone..has ANYONE made more withdrawals than deposits consistantly in last year or 2? no matter what the gear off any proffesion? and can show?

that is a deliquate question about peoples economy would they want to tell us?

 

[SKabbale]

I dont know about impMkII but I cant see how a mod fap can be considered eco for normal players:
lets say you loot(ed) one. Then lets say you sell it for 300k ped.
For that money you can pay of $30k (roughly) on your house loan.
Lets say interest on that loan is 5% --> you save $1500/365= 41ped.
U also get more skills with a normal fap. (but ofc the mod fap will save you armor decay by letting you shoot more)

How many players other then star burns through more then 41ped faps per day? I guess many mod fap owners do but not all.

My point is this: if you can manage the same hunting style with faps that costs you less then 41ped per day then mod fap isnt such a good idea. I'm not even sure its a good idea for star, he seems to use his very little since he usually has a fapper.

*now ducking for flames*

Modfap & Impfap have the best eco IG, when you fap 2 or 3 times with a regular fap (not imp or mod), you only fap
1 time with mod or imp and thats make a big difference, you save a lot of peds.

 

[JohnCapital]

Um, for a moderator that's really uncalled for if you take the spirt of Rule 2.2 to heart.

My apologies. I was intending the dunce cap to represent me, not you. What you were saying went over my head. No insult was intended.

However, regardless of my mod duties, I feel I can state my opinions openly. I promise I don't spew insults.

All I was doing was passing on findings of a trial data set complied just over a year ago that showed that irrispective of the cost to kill a non regening mob such as Falx Young (2670 hp) the most common 'base' loot remained constant over that range.

Constant for that person w/ that weapon on that mob maturity, maybe. However, I'm interested in your response to this test.

When I said 'everyone has an equivalant chance of getting globals' I was referring to hunting the same mob and matturity. If you went out and hunted 3000 odd Falx young-olds you would come prity close to the same number of globals in both number and size unless you hit an Ubber HoF, but that is just luck.

Sorry, guess I wasn't clear about my point. My point was that the concept of globals/minis being luck or better w/ eco seems interesting, but only if we apply it to global-sized mobs. If you look @ very small and large mobs, then it gets murky.

For example, young daikas can return ~90% for days with the need to global. Young Falx, you lose 50% easy with globaling, but young dasp are like 20% return w/o any globals. If globals are just luck, then you'd conclude that dasp are one of the worst mobs to hunt ever.

And don't even get me started on the ridiculous skeletons on NI. Without globals/hofs those would be against the law.

 

[XeroX2]

hmm IIRC star recently wrote in his livestream that he can't loose with his anciet IMK2 on the long run.
I guess that answers the question.

 

[Karmic]

not just him anyone..has ANYONE made more withdrawals than deposits consistantly in last year or 2? no matter what the gear off any proffesion? and can show?

Yes.

If globals are just luck, then you'd conclude that dasp are one of the worst mobs to hunt ever.

IMO they are.

 

[In Love With]

Yes.

lol, why does that not surprise me ... Keep it ingame Karmic, we want to be LA neighbours at one point, or?

Angel

 

[Mercury]

I'll start a new hunting experiment using only Aimp mk2 soon. It isn't a normal imp mk2 but should give some idea of profit possibilities. (I can't say how much it will pain me to not use foe!)

www.livestream.com/stargazing if you want to watch how it does til then.

 

[mastermesh]

Of course it's possible to consistently profit with an Imp. Mk.II + Mod. FAP. Just sell it for one ped more then you paid for it and never use it yourself.

 

[MilkeN]

Think off it like this... if it was possible to constant profit whit imkII then why do the price off the imkII drop... from a top off abit over 200k to just over 100k today. Whit constant proven profit the price off the item will not change, not drop half off the value.

Yes, you will save alot whit this gun agains alot others becouse off range, same whit mod fap it will save you alot off peds too. But constant profit... then price off the item will not be like a rollercoast.

 

[pipeboy]

Yes.



IMO they are.

can i see a screenshot pf say 10 withdrawals with no deposits? you can blank out the amounts? and whch of the 3 proffessions are u claiming to profit on?

 

[Quint]

can i see a screenshot pf say 10 withdrawals with no deposits? you can blank out the amounts? and whch of the 3 proffessions are u claiming to profit on?

I am not going to supply any screenshots, but I can guarantee you that it is possible to withdraw regularly without depositing. In fact, in the last 2-3 months it has become easier than ever (well, in last 4.5 years anyway) to profit in EU. It can be done in at least 2 professions, the 3rd is a bit trickier but can generate profit as well in the long run.

Just don't think that you can live from those deposits, otherwise I would quit my rl job, but let's say 1000ped a month shouldn't be any problem at all. That's just 100 USD, but it can be achieved by playing just 2-3 hours per day easily. That still is just between 1 and 2 USD per hour, so quite low but if you have fun at the same time, it's a nice way to pass time.