Yog Pet Buff Issue

Joat

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These quotes says it all.

So basically Mindark is saying its ok to cheat and exploit?
Im afraid that if you dont do more this will only encourage more exploiting and those who have exploited can laugh all the way to the bank..
I had hoped that they would clean out this mess once and for all. You now have the chance to regain players trust and confidence in the game.

I would guess this bug have also been used to tier up gear.

Cheating and exploiting is cancer for this game.
No, what they say is that they have problems to prove its done intentionally.

I dont like to repeat myself, but in hopes that MA will read this, here goes:

1) Yog's prices clearly shows that who was buying knew exactly what they were used for!

2) No one would go into mayhem with a Yog if not to get the attack speed bonus.
I think that is quite clear to most people, even MA, but thats not the issue.
The issue is that it can backfire if they take action without being able to
also prove that this is done intentionally.


---------------------------

Why is it so hard to understand that taking actions based on assumptions is shit
for this game, that have already been proven what can happen if they do.
 

StarGlider

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TBH, I now want MA to remove the ToU, annoying as hell to have to click it to continue, if it means diddly squat.

Mindark, your putting unnecessary wear and tear on my left mouse button.

Sarcasm mode off.

Pathetic outcome. If I see an exploit, I'll just keep schtum and rob people blind, after all, what will they do?

P.S.
No, I would not exploit at all, but this sets a precedent for those that have, do, and will continue to do so again.
Sigh, dunno why I bother with Entropia at times, I really don't.
 
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Darth Revan

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TBH, I now want MA to remove the ToU, annoying as hell to have to click it to continue, if it means diddly squat.
Their ToU says that violation of it COULD result in the account being banned or terminated without any claims whatsoever. Their EULA says they May limit or terminate your account. They use could, may, reserve the right, etc...It does not say anywhere that you will be banned or terminated for breaching any of it....it is up to their discretion.

But you should know this if you read the ToU before clicking accept.
 

StarGlider

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Their ToU says that violation of it COULD result in the account being banned or terminated without any claims whatsoever. Their EULA says they May limit or terminate your account. They use could, may, reserve the right, etc...It does not say anywhere that you will be banned or terminated for breaching any of it....it is up to their discretion.

But you should know this if you read the ToU before clicking accept.
You obviously do not get the irony of my post.
Could, may, will, discretion are 1 side of the rainbow, to the other side that means NOTHING.

Clearly a pot of gold on the left side.
 

Dessa

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No, what they say is that they have problems to prove its done intentionally.

Yes I understand that. Just had to release some frustration:tiphat:

Anyways its good that they will investigate it and hopefully prevent future exploitation atleast :thumbup:
 

GxB

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i find this amusing. the people here saying that MA cant ban the exploiters because they maybe didnt know what they were doing are actually saying this:

the high end uber players that go hard competitive every mayhem and invest thousands if not tens of thousands of dollar and hours of time into the game are too stupid to realize, that they spawned a pet in an instance and then activated a mining speed buff, in an instance that doesnt have any mining at all.

thats fucking ridiculous.

this is so damn obvious that EVERYONE who used this pet in an instance AND activated its MINING BUFF in a NO mining zone knew exactly what they were doing. 100% of them.

and even if they didnt (which is not the case) then its still a punishable offense.

in law its not different. you cant just go and say: oh sorry officer, i didnt know i cant rob this guy and !!!! his wife.
ohhh if you didnt know then its ok!...

jesus guys, do you even listen to yourself? this is beyond stupid.
 

Evey

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Yes I understand that. Just had to release some frustration:tiphat:

Anyways its good that they will investigate it and hopefully prevent future exploitation atleast :thumbup:
I would replace prevent with encourage after reading the announcement.
 

Joat

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Yes I understand that. Just had to release some frustration:tiphat:

Anyways its good that they will investigate it and hopefully prevent future exploitation atleast :thumbup:
Yeah, I guess they have a lot to do now:
Solve whatever the problem is that creates all these faulty and sloppy developed items
and features, and improve routines around support a lot.
 

Risk24

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7 mayhems and 1 migration, and MA knows how many hunts with the pet, inbetween.

13 pages of harsh but true and rightly frustrated comments from your playerbase.

Countless dissapointments along the years that passed.

Plenty of tickets and reports of players botting and cheating, both on forum and on your dissapointing support system.

Walls of text in Tos and Eula, which are not respected, by YOU, the enforcer, and some of your players, making them void of any sense.

Real cash economy game with players investing hundreds, thousands and tens of thousands of real cash($€£), being promised a loooot of things in all the years since its existence, but never delivered.

And so much more.

How long do you think you can keep this up? Time has come to change your "history". Do not belittle this issue. If you aren't noticing, your issues are escalating. Adapt or die, slowly.
 

BackBone

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I think that is quite clear to most people, even MA, but thats not the issue.
The issue is that it can backfire if they take action without being able to
also prove that this is done intentionally.
Why would it backfire? MA is free to ban anyone, as far as i'm aware.
 

Oleg

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No, what they say is that they have problems to prove its done intentionally

They can say that as much as they want, but it will never be true.
 

Joat

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Why would it backfire? MA is free to ban anyone, as far as i'm aware.
Its a greyzone now, since MA themselfs have hyped the game as something with a
correlation with RL values, so they can't act as they want all the way.
 

mspatterson

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[h=3]Yog Pet Buff Issue[/h]
Unfortunately, these support cases were not escalated to the testing and development teams and/or flagged with a sufficient level of urgency that reflected the seriousness of the issue. We will be taking steps to improve our internal processes to prevent such situations in the future.
THIS is the issue with ALL support cases imo!

"We have forwarded this off to the correct department for further investigation" In English means.. We have moved it to the trash bin.. tyvm for spending the time to let us know! =p
 

Hijacker27

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THIS is the issue with ALL support cases imo!

"We have forwarded this off to the correct department for further investigation" In English means.. We have moved it to the trash bin.. tyvm for spending the time to let us know! =p
Exact same copy and paste answer since 2003 down to the letter
 

Thorns Rose

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They can say that as much as they want, but it will never be true.
We all know this, they are just the new regime/MA crew that think we all do not.

It kind of reminds me of a teenager trying to pull some stunts that they think clever and nobody knows about or has done or seen.

{ removed }
 
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mspatterson

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We all know this, they are just the new regime/MA crew that think we all do not.

It kind of reminds me of a teenager trying to pull some stunts that they think clever and nobody knows about or has done or seen.

{ removed }
Agree 100% they try n pull the wool over everyones eyes! As far as im concerned MA cannot be trusted at all with support until the time comes when u submit a ticket for a bug and theres a patch for it 3days later... WITHOUT having to scream and yell on forum etc etc.. till then its meaningless words
 

Thorns Rose

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Agree 100% they try n pull the wool over everyones eyes! As far as im concerned MA cannot be trusted at all with support until the time comes when u submit a ticket for a bug and theres a patch for it 3days later... WITHOUT having to scream and yell on forum etc etc.. till then its meaningless words
No, I mean exploiters/scammers/botting.

I wonder if they say to themselves, "HA! They don't know this one" It always eventually is caught by someone very savvy/intelligent or MA, I am afraid this one slipped through the cracks but MANY knew. :eyecrazy:
 

-JJ-

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hi how about this for an idea?...

since the issue seems to be using these pets to gain an advantage in events like mayhem or even in pvp
landgrabs why not just simply disable the spawning of pets in these areas during these times?
vehicles can be disabled in some areas so why not pets?

with regards to the use of them in other pvp areas like ashi etc where mining is also done perhaps a new system could be added? where if say u wanted to use your yog to assist while mining u could only summon it if u do actually have a claim active that would need to be dragged onto the yogs interface, then a timer would be applied giving u sufficient time to extract the claim b4 the yog despawns again

just trying to think of ways that would help and ensure that the pets involved are actually used for their intended purpose and not abused to give some added unfair advantage

so instead of moaning and bitching about this that and other crap why cant we try to come up with more possible solutions than problems to try and ensure that eventually cheating would be nearly impossible without getting caught ;]

i know my suggestions will make some happy and some.... welll not so much especially the cheaters lol

have fun

JJ ;]
 

mastermesh

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with regards to the use of them in other pvp areas like ashi etc where mining is also done perhaps a new system could be added? where if say u wanted to use your yog to assist while mining u could only summon it if u do actually have a claim active that would need to be dragged onto the yogs interface, then a timer would be applied giving u sufficient time to extract the claim b4 the yog despawns again
interesting idea, but bad idea... because those pets have to be leveled up to get to the point where the buff can become activated. That requires having it spawned to get passive spawned experience, and doing tons and tons and tons of tricks to get active experience... that requires a little tlc, and lots of time with the pet spawned when the avatar may not be actively mining at that time, etc. Also the passive buffs don't just automatically unlock. You have to do what is related to the buff to unlock the 'criteria'... it's not just an on and off switch until the passive gets unlocked. Pets take a long time to train, especially if you do it the right way where you keep the focus at 90% or higher to keep the pet from losing too much experience per trick. Most avatars that don't own pets have no clue...
 

Chiee

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Cheaters / exploiters should be banned / penalize definetly and its only way to act here. MA has been banning people in the past so why not now. (They dont have balls). There is LA owners who has been banned and ALOT of other cases where you got ban even from smaller exploits. MA know this and Oldtimers know this for sure. There is still properties ingame which MA is holding from banned players even its officially stated that they come for sale after 5 years from ban.

Unfortunetly this case shows that we cant trust MA anymore since they dont even follow their own rules. Community want actions. Im voting with my deposits and those not going to happen ever anymore before cheaters are handled like they should. MA change the EULA / TOU of whatever these "rules" are called then if it is that hard really to do something!. Soon I will make another vote and request withdraw. Others should do same until MA can stand up properly.
 

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All are still only talking about the rare Yog Horror, I suppose. Whether the lesser Hatchling, which has the same buff only at 10%, is included in the official measures is not entirely clear to me. I just went back to Monria where I left my first Yog Hatchling which I tamed only days before this shtf. I'll see if I can level it up and unlock in time to test if it provides any advantage. So there will possibly be a record of me taking one into a Mayhem instance. Just to see what happens, if anything.

Good luck to all honest Mayhemers who still haven't given up.
 

-JJ-

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lol i was writing a reply and my brother seen me typing and asked me what i was doing so i gave him a crash course on entropia etc and why people were angry about the yogs

he said well sounds to me like there is no fairness at all in this game, those complaining cos of 1 pet that gave a buff is no different to any other gear people rich enuff could maybe afford, sounds to me like its more a case of whoever has the biggest wallet and actually knows how to play the game wins, maybe they should stop crying like little bitches blaming every1 else cos they are either too poor to compete, or lack the ability to learn a games secrets

well .. he dont even play the game and i think he pretty much summed it up lol
 

Jhereg

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lol i was writing a reply and my brother seen me typing and asked me what i was doing so i gave him a crash course on entropia etc and why people were angry about the yogs

he said well sounds to me like there is no fairness at all in this game, those complaining cos of 1 pet that gave a buff is no different to any other gear people rich enuff could maybe afford, sounds to me like its more a case of whoever has the biggest wallet and actually knows how to play the game wins, maybe they should stop crying like little bitches blaming every1 else cos they are either too poor to compete, or lack the ability to learn a games secrets

well .. he dont even play the game and i think he pretty much summed it up lol
You 100% missed the point.

This isn't about game 'secrets'. The Yog buff was fully unintended to work with weapons. Therefore, using it to improve reload by 10 or 25% is an exploit, not just an 'game secret'.

The exploit was held secret by exploiters instead of making it public for their own benefit. MA of course did not do QA or testing of their own code so they are also at fault, whatever they want to say about know or not knowing about the exploit.

Do you think the players at the top of most categories would not have paid to use a Yog if it was a legitimate/publicly known way to boost DPS? Most of the players at the top of Cat 7,8,9,10 all are using gear that's worth maybe 100k+ ped.

You seem to lack some understanding of the situation.
 
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Raffaele Meiers

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Only one addition to your excelent Post:

Bugs that cost MA money are corrected instantly, Bugs that cost the playerbase money and gives more revenue/decay(faster reload f.x.), an therfore money to MA, are only corrected if they are known by all the participants.

SO my 5 cent are that everyone who posts a supportcase for such a bug waits 2 weeks and then post how to use the Bug in the Forum so it will become known by the community and the pressure is mounted to correct it and in the case of the Yog abusers they woud not have anymore the possibility to claim they did it not by mistake.

OMG really?

You realize that everyone that has been exploiting this bug since halloween mayhem 18 is laughing right now? They got away with stealing ... They arn't named, they arn't shamed, they certainly arn't banned for 5 months and had some of their most valuable skills stripped away from them.

you can't show how harsh you'll be to one case of people cheating the system to gain advantages and then roll over and play dead to another case of people cheating for years to gain thousands of dollars worth of gear.

How do we ever expect to grow as a community with new blood of players when stuff like this keeps happening? This makes me sick.

Do you think with the way you're handling this is going to deter the next (possibly same) group of exploiters that find a bug to cheat and gain MASSIVE advantage with? Nah, they'll take the chance, knowing they'll probably keep the prizes and go about their lives laughing all the way to the bank.

Never been so disappointed reading a decision about cheating.

No one on accident spawns and activates a mining buff in an instance where you can't mine. How stupid do you really think your community is?

Be Better Mindark, Do Better.
 

Count0

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lol i was writing a reply and my brother seen me typing and asked me what i was doing so i gave him a crash course on entropia etc and why people were angry about the yogs

he said well sounds to me like there is no fairness at all in this game, those complaining cos of 1 pet that gave a buff is no different to any other gear people rich enuff could maybe afford, sounds to me like its more a case of whoever has the biggest wallet and actually knows how to play the game wins, maybe they should stop crying like little bitches blaming every1 else cos they are either too poor to compete, or lack the ability to learn a games secrets

well .. he dont even play the game and i think he pretty much summed it up lol
Welll...
You 100% missed the point.
.....
You seem to lack some understanding of the situation.
What Jhereg said...

Go read the whole thing again, make sure you understand, talk to some more experienced players, and only after that you should post...
Otherwise you`re only embarrassing yourself (and your brother)...
 

Raffaele Meiers

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MA is right with this approach. It can and should compensate the people who were wronged. It can not however punish the people who used the pet in the instance.
First of all, if you try to ban someone for that, in a court they have a good argument that it is not their job to know if the buff was intended or not. There were a ton of items with attributes that were hidden, and people inferred those attributes by playing the game. This could simply be an instance of that case.
If they stayed below the 30% max acceleration you could be right but when they use Pills, Rings etc. and the Yog Pet Buffer to go beyond the 30% max Buff they knew about it and where certainly breaching the ToU.

So if a participant stayed below the 30% max Buff I think they could have done it unintentionally, if they exeeded the 30% max Buff it was certainly deliberate cheating and abusing of a Bug.
 

BlackHawk

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So if a participant stayed below the 30% max Buff I think they could have done it unintentionally, if they exeeded the 30% max Buff it was certainly deliberate cheating and abusing of a Bug.
As a player, all you do is to maximize your efficiency. Is there somewhere in ToS that you can't get more than 30% buff? Is this something a player should know? Why is that?
I am not saying they should or could claim ignorance, but it is not my job as a player to know what the upper limit for something is and make sure I do not go over it.

You can't have it "we provide the game as is" and "you can't gain buff above x% even if you can, using items available in game".

Further more, the bug was reported by lots of people. If MA considered it to be a bug, they should have fixed it. If they lost the track of it, is not a player problem. Is MA problem. If MA did nothing with respect to the bug, players can assume it is a normal game feature.
 

Redone Duncan

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I ran last mayhems and reached some topten positions, so yog bug made me mad.
I read all pages and with difficulty I digested MA's statement, tbh a perma (at least temp) ban for future events is what I would have want to see and hope future investigations may lead to that. Lately I have seen a better approach from them and I am optimistic.

Does any of the 12 have something to say?

DRM
 

Evey

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Only one addition to your excelent Post:

Bugs that cost MA money are corrected instantly, Bugs that cost the playerbase money and gives more revenue/decay(faster reload f.x.), an therfore money to MA, are only corrected if they are known by all the participants.

SO my 5 cent are that everyone who posts a supportcase for such a bug waits 2 weeks and then post how to use the Bug in the Forum so it will become known by the community and the pressure is mounted to correct it and in the case of the Yog abusers they woud not have anymore the possibility to claim they did it not by mistake.
Probably best is to skip the support altogether because bugs that get a lot of buzz on the forum are looked into right away. You're forced to go to support when forum rules prevent you from naming others, and those support cases are put in the trash bin right away nowadays it seems :D
 

Raffaele Meiers

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No, what they say is that they have problems to prove its done intentionally.



I think that is quite clear to most people, even MA, but thats not the issue.
The issue is that it can backfire if they take action without being able to
also prove that this is done intentionally.


---------------------------

Why is it so hard to understand that taking actions based on assumptions is shit
for this game, that have already been proven what can happen if they do
.
The last sentence from you is this a threat to MA you are sending here what will happen if they proceed with this case of cheating MA and theire customers and not letting the bug abusers continue unharmed or is it only that I do not understand what you wanted to say whit it?


Even in court you not always have the smoking gun but you can have a "chain of circumstantial evidence" which leads to the conviction of the guilty part.

And here I think it would go like this:

If he is mining does he uses the pet while mining, if not when does he use the pet, while on Events and doing shard mobs like Sand King or Hussk?
Does he use the pet when doing events or hunting shared mobs like Sand King or Hussk while using other buffs to have more than the maximum 30% reload increase?
Does he rent or lend the pet to friends who then use it on shared mobs or events like he does and not while mining?
ETC.

In the end you have the chain of evidences which gives enough certainity, as it would in a court, to convict him or here.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
 
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