Clarification about Entropia banking operations

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I really hope the European union will take steps to ensure the wild growth of people earning from addiction and gambling inside the virtua worlds. I hope for a more lifestyle centered game instead of supplying rich kids with new toys and the casino style in looting.

I wanna feel free in this game since it is meant to be entertainment not a cruel reminder of real life.
These two statements contradict eachother. The EU (the other one ;)) taking steps will inevitably lead to regulation, not deregulation, which is what we need here.

MA should live by this creed: "Don't fix it if it ain't broken."
 
Having just read through the new posts on this thread since yesterday, and seen a lot of very heated exchanges, but still nothing really getting anywhere, can someone please explain a few things to me.

1. Is it people's objective to actually get something changed, or merely to let off some steam and hence feel better.

I mean I know it's human nature when you feel angry you want to lash out at someone or something - MA are out of reach, so we start attacking each other. But is this everyone's primary objective, or do we actually want to achieve something positive.

If you want to express your anger, there are many effective ways of doing this. :)

2. Assuming people want something to be changed, what really is the objective. As I said yesterday, MA have issued the licences, and got the money for them. Done deal, now a solution is needed which includes that.

BMW said yesterday that a solution has been proposed - that MA need to do a complete U turn and allow unofficial competition to the banks. It doesn't take much to realise that since this would mean they could not deliver the exclusivity they had promised to the licence holders, the licence holders would complain about 'cheating unreliable MA' who need to do a complete U-turn on their latest policy. MA could then say, either 'all trades are final - hahahhaha we are off to the golf course'.:silly2: Or they could say ok we will buy back the licence if any licence holder feels cheated. They will then have to recover the cost from elsewhere - so lower loots, maybe an increase to decay etc.

So obviously that solution won't work. Or maybe this is what everyone wants - just scrap the banks, we would rather have less loot and higher decay, and no new features or bugfixes. I don't know what people prefer. But I do know software takes a lot of time and money to write and test and support, so it has to be paid for somehow.

However, what I actually suggested yesterday was that we needed a solution which works with the continuing existence of the official licences.

Now maybe the licence-holders would say - yes we are all quite happy for unofficial competition. We are confident of our business plan, and feel no threat from any unlicensed competitors. Perhaps MA are currently canvassing opinion on that from the licence-holders, with a view to issuing a new statement.

But if not, here are some ideas to get the ball rolling. Do any of them come close:

- MA could just issue an apology for such a cack-handed PR exercise. They could state that they should have sought player community opinion before introducing the 'bank' licences, and could express regret that they handled this issue in a way that caused so much unhappiness.

OR

- MA could offer to provide an explicit statement that certain players who were offering a loan service as a business prior to the licence auction would not be subject to ban if they continue their operations, provided those players (a) continue to operate in a reputable way, and (b) ensure they advise all players they deal with that they enter into any agreement with them at their own risk
This would not be a blanket lifting of the ban, but an unofficial licence for players who were already offering the service which has now been banned. however, those players would be under a higher duty to behave reputably than normal players, in the same way that a licensed financial organisation has a higher duty to look after customers' funds than a normal business in the real world. That means these players have to put things right themselves in the case of a complaint, or MA will just cancel their unofficial licence. It may mean writing off some loans - this is a normal cost of a lending business.
Perhaps MA could also offer first chance to those people to acquire an official licence after the exclusive period expires, should they want to have one.

OR

- MA have some extra money now - so although they can't change what's been decided on the 'banks' situation, they do have flexibility with what they do with the money. What would we like? What is a priority? If they agreed to introduce vehicles in the next VU, would this offset the unhappiness?

Ok I am just trying to be constructive here - there are better ideas I'm sure. Point being instead of just bashing each other and MA, and demanding change without thinking through the consequences, surely we need to think about what we really want, and also what is possible?
:scratch2:
 
1. Is it people's objective to actually get something changed, or merely to let off some steam and hence feel better.

I think it is just those who wanted to start some bankbusiness of their own that is pissed of by MA:s statement.
So they let some steam off here because they cant really change anything at all.
Its MA:s game and also their business so they make the rules.
We just have to accept those rules because MA is NOT going to change the statement about the banks.
I can really understand that they dont want any competition with the bank licenses they sold.
 
Its MA:s game and also their business so they make the rules.
We just have to accept those rules because MA is NOT going to change the statement about the banks.

William Wallace would not agree. Freeeeeedoooooom!!!!!!
 
Just like kings of the past... but if enough people stand together on an issue, MA will have no choice. For one thing... this whole thread has given so much neg. publicity to the banks that I'd hate to be one of those who invested so much money in them. I really feel for them... none of this is their fault. They are clients of MA, and MA is trying to protect their investment. I can understand that... but two things get me. 1. The lack of.. um.. cooth, shall we say, that this matter was handled with. And 2. The thought of how easily our rights can be stripped away if MA so inclined.

The best option for MA, (and this is even to protect their investors) is to allow those who wanted to to go ahead with their business plans to do so without fear of violation of the EULA. The bank liscenses come with a place of business, and automated operation, security and many other incentives. The "others" assume ALL risks. I say if they want to take those risks, let them. But the problem we face now is players NOT using the 5 liscensed banks simply out of spite. (Again.. lets remember that this isn't their fault.) BUT, the services the rouge bank owners provide is NO DIFFERENT than traders, resellers etc etc etc. I'm surprised that with the application of the malls that trading other players was no longer allowed. I mean.. lets be consistant, right.

I hope this can all be resolved peacefully... for Mindark, For the bank investors and for the peace and assurance of all the community. Reinstill our faith Mindark.. while you still can.
 
edited.... its too early in the morning.
 
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I think it is just those who wanted to start some bankbusiness of their own that is pissed of by MA:s statement.
So they let some steam off here because they cant really change anything at all.
Its MA:s game and also their business so they make the rules.
We just have to accept those rules because MA is NOT going to change the statement about the banks.
I can really understand that they dont want any competition with the bank licenses they sold.

yes I can understand this as well, but I always thought the good thing about EU is the maturity of the playerbase. We are not all teenagers. Yet I read this thread and I think maybe suddenly everyone is 13 again. :scratch2:

However, maybe I'm wasting my time trying to be constructive. Maybe this is why MA don't bother trying to communicate with players very much. :banghead:

Let's get past : :argue::boxer:

and try instead: :idea::better:
 
yes I can understand this as well, but I always thought the good thing about EU is the maturity of the playerbase. We are not all teenagers. Yet I read this thread and I think maybe suddenly everyone is 13 again. :scratch2:

However, maybe I'm wasting my time trying to be constructive. Maybe this is why MA don't bother trying to communicate with players very much. :banghead:

Let's get past : :argue::boxer:

and try instead: :idea::better:

Well it was MA who started the fight when they call that honest players would be considered scammers without due cause.

I don't agree that MA should protect the license bank holders more than providing them with a safe and reliable system to perform their activities.

If somebody is willing to risk to use a not so secure system to provide similiar services, accordingly to the majority of the opinions previously here expressed , people think that should be allowed to do it.
And as long as their behaviors are legit morally and legally I don't think that anybody should be forced to abandon such activities.

The withdraw of that unfortunate comment from their site shows that given them the opportunity they will correct their mistakes.

This wasn't their first, not even the most serious and certainly that I don't expect to be their last mistake in terms of handling certain game play features.

The license holders have an exclusive to operate a secured bank like activity/system that nobody else has.
That is what was advertised why should be given more to them at costs of the community based help services
when those license holders didn't even yet proven their value in terms of that service
and are beyond dispute here to milk the system out of MA hard earned supplies of wealth provided by their costumers=us.
 
Well it was MA who started the fight when they call that honest players would be considered scammers without due cause.

Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh :banghead:

He started it miss it wasn't me

I give up. If I was Marco I'd probably have thrown myself under an Atrox by now. :)

Have fun in EU if you choose to. Or not if you don't. Gl with your campaign
 
Missed most the thread with it being tooo long. But i got a few quick questions.
1) Are the "banks" glorified pawnshops?
2) Are pawnshops allowed to accept pledges from persons under 18?

:cowboy:
 
I think it is just those who wanted to start some bankbusiness of their own that is pissed of by MA:s statement.
So they let some steam off here because they cant really change anything at all.
Its MA:s game and also their business so they make the rules.
We just have to accept those rules because MA is NOT going to change the statement about the banks.
I can really understand that they dont want any competition with the bank licenses they sold.

its not about those who were offering unofficial banking/pawn services, its many of us disliking the goal posts being shifted, innovation and enterprise being culled, draconian punishments imposed and bismirching the name of people who have done nothing wrong while real scammers go unchecked.
 
for me the worst is that MA not only did a U turn and prohibited a business that was ok some days before but to tell us that :bs: about protecting the poor noobs :eek:

I never wanted do run a pawnshop but, as stated before, how long will it take until they want a biger HQ or anything and sell Hunting licenses and forbid the rest of us to hunt? (or anything like that)
They said the pawnshop licenses (no i will not call them banks!) are exclusive but it was meant to be exclusive in the way that MA will not sell more in the next 2 years or they would have not oked CBE after the sale!

How could that situation be cleared? Take back the clearification (a sorry would be in place too but well i don't ask for that) and give the official pawnshops there buildings and let them compete with the trust based loan services - if the licenses come with any usefull features there will be no problem, if not well than bad luck for the investors ;) you knew it was a risky investment!
 
its not about those who were offering unofficial banking/pawn services, its many of us disliking the goal posts being shifted, innovation and enterprise being culled, draconian punishments imposed and bismirching the name of people who have done nothing wrong while real scammers go unchecked.

You hit the nail on the spot :)
~
See the greater picture, many of us are not 13 y/o kids who just started playing this game 3 months ago... I think to ignore some of the constructive points in this thread and don't see past the immature responces, well.. its a bit ignorant.

Many people like Sirhc, have made excellent points. Don't belittle the intelligence of a few for the responces of others. Think bigger picture.
 
So obviously that solution won't work. Or maybe this is what everyone wants - just scrap the banks, we would rather have less loot and higher decay, and no new features or bugfixes. I don't know what people prefer. But I do know software takes a lot of time and money to write and test and support, so it has to be paid for somehow.
You were making a little sense up til here.
People WERE actually looting, globalling, hoffing and even ATH'ing before anyone conceived of official Entropia Banks. And I dare anyone to prove that loot even increased since the licenses were sold.

In short: MA's day-to-day business is completely separate from the sale of the licenses. Decay has not decreased, loot has not increased, features and bugfixes arrive at the same rate they always did sice the licenses were sold.

This was a dishonest argument. Don't make out like we HAVE to have the offical banks, or gameplay would become prohibitively expensive and stale.
 
I have expected this thread to die after the bot event... but it seems that is not so easy ;).
We whant to love you MA! Why don't you let us?:cheer:
 
... Polo?




(Well, American kids that have spent any time around a swimming pool will get this...)


AG
 
What can i say...... its like here il lend you 5 ped you can pay it back in 1 weeks, and after one week Ops i am lockout from EU ?

thats just a example, they want us only to deposit thru Creditcard all time.

and the loot increase is sucks a bullock, they fixing bugs yea right were, i only see new ones all the time.

Yes i like this game but now it have gone all to far. i mean on one month should we all lose like 20k, 30k peds and get nothing, we are the costumor here and we are paying so this game are on the air not mindark.

the skills system is total nerfed now and thats a big problem now to, i can't enjoin Eu like before, i mean i know few in game that have alot of skills and have play seens EU went gold and they lose alot more then newbies thats not right.

and now they nerfing that we can't borrow out peds and stuff, we need a bank license for that o_O Btw mindark please check my support case..


Good day and have a nice day all.

/Hummel
 
I just wanted to see if there are some new on the Entropiauniverse website about the server down.
Nothing, but the Developers Blog is full of "Thanks for Voting EU up to .. blabla"

I have voted myself becuase of some threads here on EF.

My suggestion: This time, don´t vote for EU. Maybe that will show MA...

i hope MA sees the differnts between saying "Vote bad for EU" (which i don´t want you to do) and "Don´t vote for EU" ....
 
Bear: I see your poit and i did not vote for a while but i started again today ... not because of something good from MA but because i still like EU and i don't want to see our work to get it up to #1 crushed like CBE :rolleyes:

sorry for offtopic
 
Bear: I see your poit and i did not vote for a while but i started again today ... not because of something good from MA but because i still like EU and i don't want to see our work to get it up to #1 crushed like CBE :rolleyes:

sorry for offtopic

and i can see your point.
But there is so much stuff MA just seem to care a "shit" about and which need to be reworked or fixed. Now this with the Banks/Scammer crap.
MA does not seem to care much about what the players demand, they go their own way. But the seem the care about any "official" news and those votings. I doubt it will harm EU much if we don´t vote for a while, but maybe MA get an idea who they work for. See it people, MA (should) work for us, we pay them, not the other way around.

Stop it before it goes worse!
 
and i can see your point.
But there is so much stuff MA just seem to care a "shit" about and which need to be reworked or fixed. Now this with the Banks/Scammer crap.
MA does not seem to care much about what the players demand, they go their own way. But the seem the care about any "official" news and those votings. I doubt it will harm EU much if we don´t vote for a while, but maybe MA get an idea who they work for. See it people, MA (should) work for us, we pay them, not the other way around.

Stop it before it goes worse!

Agreed. Will not vote anymore. Let their ratings fall where they may.
 
and i can see your point.
But there is so much stuff MA just seem to care a "shit" about and which need to be reworked or fixed. Now this with the Banks/Scammer crap.
MA does not seem to care much about what the players demand, they go their own way. But the seem the care about any "official" news and those votings. I doubt it will harm EU much if we don´t vote for a while, but maybe MA get an idea who they work for. See it people, MA (should) work for us, we pay them, not the other way around.

Stop it before it goes worse!

i'm afraid i have to agree too
 
I think it is just those who wanted to start some bankbusiness of their own that is pissed of by MA:s statement.

WRONG! :wise:

I had/have/will never have any desire to run any kind of loan service in EU.

However, I see the issues arising from this kind of "verdict".

BMW doesn't strike me as the bank-running type either.

Dbelinfante? :scratch: Nope

Mikah? Nah-uh.

Etc., etc.

I'd say it's mostly people who can see the ramifications of these kinds of actions.
 
So MA remouveved the blabla...
Well that bring new question :

Did MA remouved it on purpose , or it is error?
If MA remouved on purpose , will they say sorry , or rewrite something more adapted to the situation ?
Why we havent hear yet anything ... the clarification about the clarified clarification still very unclear to me since it now disapeared...
 
I just wanted to see if there are some new on the Entropiauniverse website about the server down.
Nothing, but the Developers Blog is full of "Thanks for Voting EU up to .. blabla"

I have voted myself becuase of some threads here on EF.

My suggestion: This time, don´t vote for EU. Maybe that will show MA...

i hope MA sees the differnts between saying "Vote bad for EU" (which i don´t want you to do) and "Don´t vote for EU" ....

I've already noticed that a lot less vote are dropped in each day now, same with posts in the voting thread!

I still vote twice daily, but i can understand your point!

Don't give up voting, join the banner campaign instead, MA already retracted the original clarification!
(hey, i'd never thought i would be so happy we have bertha, otherwise it would be lost)

I wanna see black banners in every post in the voting thread, even if you decide NOT to vote for some days

Post there with the black banner in your sig!

(copy&paste sig banner from here )
 
im not sure what you mean about them removing their clarification
Maybe you can clarify your clarification so people will be able to reclarify their clarifications of this clarify...

Seriously,

Just the simple fact so many people are on EF instead of playing THIS GREAT GAME tells me alot.
Im pretty sure players in todays game are relegated to third class citizens considering MA is putting the chinese in the drivers seat. Their will be more chinese playing the game than other people, so in some ways we are like the retarded child in the family now.
Ma really doesnt care about us, they are putting their eggs in the fact china will be their best clients, i mean they are making a whole new planet for them, that says alot right there. This one nerf about the banks is just a symptom of what is to come. Its seems after they knew china was gonna come into the game they started nerfing everything to make it unfair because they knew once china got involved , chinese would take advanatage oif any weak points. So we are basically 3rd class citizens now and the way MA acts towards us shows that.
 
oh my, this was a long thread indeed.. intressting that so many people care, are there that many want to have their own banking service? or do you care just for the sake of those who do? nah.. why care more about them then you do about those who payed for licence.. hoping for cheaper rate on your loans maybe?

anyhow, I do to my own surprise think that MA is right in this, why shouldnt those who pay for licence dont have this advantage? there are atleast five so there will be competion. just like the shops/auc change that so many liked.

but most important, NO people in PE is NOT good enough at avoiding scams themselves. Name any soc that has lived for atleast a few months and you will probably find atleast one scammed in it. I have no idea how many times ive heard of people beeing scammed. anything from people pretending to be Auktuma and other high profile players to loans etc.

i do see the downside as well, and im sorry for all legit people trying to enjoy the possiblity of having an enterprise.

and ill end with a feature i would see added. That people should be able to "safekeep" items in the banks, so if you go away for a month you could leave your items with the bank, they could rent it out, and you would both get payed for it :D
 
oh my, this was a long thread indeed.. intressting that so many people care, are there that many want to have their own banking service? or do you care just for the sake of those who do? nah.. why care more about them then you do about those who payed for licence.. hoping for cheaper rate on your loans maybe?

anyhow, I do to my own surprise think that MA is right in this, why shouldnt those who pay for licence dont have this advantage? there are atleast five so there will be competion. just like the shops/auc change that so many liked.

but most important, NO people in PE is NOT good enough at avoiding scams themselves. Name any soc that has lived for atleast a few months and you will probably find atleast one scammed in it. I have no idea how many times ive heard of people beeing scammed. anything from people pretending to be Auktuma and other high profile players to loans etc.

i do see the downside as well, and im sorry for all legit people trying to enjoy the possiblity of having an enterprise.

and ill end with a feature i would see added. That people should be able to "safekeep" items in the banks, so if you go away for a month you could leave your items with the bank, they could rent it out, and you would both get payed for it :D

No I don't care for any of the avatar loaning system that are available at the moment and honestly I do believe that they are overpriced and hope that the competition introduced by the banks may change this in favor of the custumer.

Well it was MA who started the fight when they call that honest players would be considered scammers without due cause.

I don't agree that MA should protect the license bank holders more than providing them with a safe and reliable system to perform their activities.

If somebody is willing to risk to use a not so secure system to provide similiar services, accordingly to the majority of the opinions previously here expressed , people think that should be allowed to do it.
And as long as their behaviors are legit morally and legally I don't think that anybody should be forced to abandon such activities.

The withdraw of that unfortunate comment from their site shows that given them the opportunity they will correct their mistakes.

This wasn't their first, not even the most serious and certainly that I don't expect to be their last mistake in terms of handling certain game play features.

The license holders have an exclusive to operate a secured bank like activity/system that nobody else has.
That is what was advertised why should be given more to them at costs of the community based help services
when those license holders didn't even yet proven their value in terms of that service
and are beyond dispute here to milk the system out of MA hard earned supplies of wealth provided by their costumers=us.

As a bit of coincidence if you had asked me yesterday I would have believe that MA had already implemented such a system that would allow bank licence holders to perform such safe and reliable transactions.

Today I found out that it wasn't so (although in the bank case I'm sure that they would be payed for any loss due to such bug, and in any case if MA reacts this fast for just a common player request, I'm almost sure that if it was a bank requesting it they would shut down servers in the middle of the night and wouldn't connect it back until it was fixed)
 
oh my, this was a long thread indeed.. intressting that so many people care, are there that many want to have their own banking service? or do you care just for the sake of those who do? nah.. why care more about them then you do about those who payed for licence.. hoping for cheaper rate on your loans maybe?

This just to show you, how many people miss the bigger picture. I would say read the entire thread on its entirely but oh well.

Maybe some people truly and genuinly care about this universe, enough to stand up for something they believe in? Not everyone has an ulterior motive you know...

I'd never use the loan system personally, most of the debate has nothing to do with banking, I suggest you try again.
 
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