Evil amp misstake :((

aia

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When u trade someone, U automaticly agree to give ownership from one ava to another. If u have a oral agreement between the "Borrower" and the "Real owner" that is something that is decided outside the game's rules. Since MA states that all trades are FINAL. Meaning every right u have to that items is gone once u accept the trade.

This is why u are 100 % responsible for anything that happends to that Item once you have given it away.
Meaning if u borrow a mod fap to a "friend". That person rly have full access to steal that fap and sell it.
It's two different things.

The first thing is "all trades are final". It means (as they said) if you get scammed the trade won't be reversed. I guess there are two reasons why MA won't reverse trades: Some items are consumed upon use and trades with them can't be reversed, and secondly MA doesn't want the workload from people who'll screan Scammer!!! at anyone who pay less than they want and from there draw the line between a clear scammer and a sleezy trader.

The other thing is how it looks like in an outer perspective outside the technical trade window. If it's an agreement that has been broken; if you are a victim of a scam (or recently, a crafter who have embezzled the funds he received from his customers). As someone said, if you scam, sure the trade where you got the items won't go back to the victim directly, but you risk getting a lock (and if you pass the scammed items onto someone else that third person also risks a lock).

Another perspective is the difference between legal right or wrong, and ethical right or wrong.

If you think in a world that everyone lives by "my reputation is PED earning", then if you think a bit it's not a fun place to live. If every action you do is something that will suposedly give you more PEDs than you're willing to give, and everyone else thinks the same then the game will go into a deadlock. If you think "haha stupid depositors I play for free and withdraw monthly" without thinking who, ultimately, which is the people that pays the markups.

Or let's say there comes a beginner into the game. A friendly older player gives him a rifle. Now a scammerwannabe thinks: I create hundreds of new avatars! Then I go ask for guns and clothes, and I'll be rich! But that will only make it harder for people who really need help to get it. And "no speak english" if that is true, if it is a new player without english knowledge, or if it's a wannabe scammer who found out a perfect way to not have to dig down deeper in discussions (eg "Hello! Help plz! I'm a beginner and I have no clothes :( plz give PEDs" "Do you know how to sweat?" "Sorry bad english").

There are two ways that for me raises the "scammer alert" flag. I won't go into details, but one is the language they use (or rather, how they use it - how close to their 14th birthday their language looks like), and the second is about clothing (though I guess the clothing thing was more common a couple of years ago).
 
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Let me clarify something for some of you.

What Lazz did, falls under the unsolicited goods doctrine of common law. Under that doctrine, the recipient of unsolicited goods would be required to pay for them if they accepted them or used them.

The trades being "final" is not true either. The trade box is essentially a contract. There are many defenses available to a contract. Even after it is signed (clicked) by the parties.

However, there is no contract here, because there was no consideration, meaning that MULTI didn't give anything back). We remove that from the equation. There was also no gift, as it was not the donor's intention to make a gift. We remove that from the equation too.

So, legally, Lazz would be entitled to become whole again, meaning he is entitled to remedy. However, this only works in the real world.

The ISSUE here is NOT who rightfully owns the amp. The law is clear that Lazz does.

The issue here is that there is no effective means of enforcing Lazz's rights in a Virtual world.

Please stop making statements that "all trade are final" and that Multi owns it. She DOES NOT rightfully own it! However, she holds it and will benefit from it because there are no feasible ways to enforce the law in a virtual world.

The important thing to know is NOT who the rightful owner is...it is that the rightful owner has no recourse to get the goods returned, or to be compensated for them.

That being said, yes there is probably nothing that MA will do, because they will only do it if it affects their interests (CLDs). Yes, Multi will likely remain the beneficiary of an unsolicited good and will keep the profit.

But all you fucking know-it-alls spouting that it's hers because "all trades are final", need to stfu. It is hers because she is not subjected to the law in this virtual world. NOT because clicking on the trade box is "final".

The act of making the trade is NOT what makes it final. It is the unavailability of legal recourse that makes it final. There is a large and deep difference between those two previous sentences. AND THAT DIFFERENCE IS WHAT TRULY MATTERS. It won't be long before people realize that without adequate protection and legal recourse, conducting multi-national money transfers in a RCE virtual game is about the most unsafe thing you can do.

As the world becomes ever-increasingly reliant on technology, there someday may be a way where international disputes over virtual property can be adjudicated virtually, but there isn't now. MA needs to get ahead of the curve here. Start protecting peoples rights, and they will trust you with their money a hell of a lot more. The solution is so clear, but no one can see it.
 
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TACUTTING

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I would go to the police .

Its stolen and in sweden we now have a law that says its the new owner that need to prove a bought thing isnt stolen , ( köpt i god tro /Bought in good faith is taken away some years ago )


The item should be locked and investigated by MA.

I truly hope Multianna will spend the peds wisely (to the lootpool ofcourse ) instead of mr I who would gladly buy stolen property as long as the owner isnt holding it .
 

LAZZ

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goodgrief999

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We keep asking MindArk for this but they don't listen. Maybe we should have a petition!
A strike would be more effective against Mindark; i.e. "We the undersigned will not deposit again until
i) there is a fair and safe way to lend or rent items
ii) Taming is brought back ingame or compensation paid out
iii) Bink video deposits are returned and something is done about the loss of digital assets" etc etc
 

Chrome

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Please stop making statements that "all trade are final" and that Multi owns it. She DOES NOT rightfully own it! However, she holds it and will benefit from it because there are no feasible ways to enforce the law in a virtual world.

But all you fucking know-it-alls spouting that it's hers because "all trades are final", need to stfu. It is hers because she is not subjected to the law in this virtual world. NOT because clicking on the trade box is "final".
So, basically... because there is no legal recourse in this virtual world, the trade actually IS final.

:smoke:
 
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So, basically... because there is no legal recourse in this virtual world, the trade actually IS final.

:smoke:
Yeah, it is, but not for the reasons half of you nit-wits think it is. That's exactly what I said in my post. So you just repeated me and put a little smoking emote next to it like you are fucking cool. Plagiarizer :p
 

Lady crystal

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Keep wondering Mr.
I had so much sympaty for you...untill that remark

you get a HOF...you can afford to buy the item back...and give it back to your friend

and yes you pay for your mistake...but at the end...it was your mistake:scratch2:
 

Nisha

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I had so much sympaty for you...untill that remark

you get a HOF...you can afford to buy the item back...and give it back to your friend

and yes you pay for your mistake...but at the end...it was your mistake:scratch2:
He acknowledged that, yes.
 

TACUTTING

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And that wont solve the main problem .
By doing a b-o the wrong avatar would get the money that doesnt belong to him .


wich was the main point until Mr I started to post he doesnt care a * about comunity or the game just wanted to earn some fast buck and withdraw




I Remember the ordeal when i invited a very famous reseller to our soc and he continued selling tech bps for 1 ped at auction .

here we have a guy that admits he likes to buy stolen properties as long he can make a ped and most posters talk about eula /final trade Bla bla bla wich is just a fantasy someone made up , and will never be a legal rule

TAC
Ice Cold
 

LAZZ

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I had so much sympaty for you...untill that remark

you get a HOF...you can afford to buy the item back...and give it back to your friend

and yes you pay for your mistake...but at the end...it was your mistake:scratch2:
Why should i do a BO on that amp?
I have no reasson to give Anna any more peds then nessasary do i?
Sure i got a HoF and i depo 5k peds so i had peds allready to pay Wildman, that HoF only mean i can go on a wile more instead of taking a month break.
Yea i have said its my misstake all the time.
Whats ur point?
 
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I had so much sympaty for you...untill that remark

you get a HOF...you can afford to buy the item back...and give it back to your friend

and yes you pay for your mistake...but at the end...it was your mistake:scratch2:
Yep, good move, 45 posts.....didnt read thread...hated...new record.
 
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Wildman Alpha

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Lazz reimbursed me for the amp. Please no one try to purchase the amp to return it. On a side note this thread had 10,000 more hits than the Famous Entropians II thread did lol.

V/R
Wildman
 

Chrome

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Yeah, it is, but not for the reasons half of you nit-wits think it is. That's exactly what I said in my post. So you just repeated me and put a little smoking emote next to it like you are fucking cool. Plagiarizer :p
What's funnier is that you agree that all trades are indeed final.

Regardless of the reasons you or any of us "nit-wits" think, it's a reality... what MA says is indeed true.


If I plagarized anyone, it was the EULA. :laugh:

Also, I don't need the little smoking emote to be "fucking cool", I'm cool with or without it. I just figured it was appropriate because, well... I smoked your logic. :wise:




Lazz reimbursed me for the amp. Please no one try to purchase the amp to return it. On a side note this thread had 10,000 more hits than the Famous Entropians II thread did lol.

V/R
Wildman
Gratz on recouping your loss.
 

Menace

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FINALLY.......

The 45 pages of "I'm an idiot" can be closed......

Menace
 

Wildman Alpha

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FINALLY.......

The 45 pages of "I'm an idiot" can be closed......

Menace
AMP is still out their not sure if Lazz still pursue the issue or not.

and 36 pages now. :rolleyes:
 

anonimity

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AMP is still out their not sure if Lazz still pursue the issue or not.

and 36 pages now. :rolleyes:
you all need to display more posts per page... lol this is only page 12 noobs.
 

NoBion

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This project is doomed from the beginning...

People we are talking a game with "REAL" money... Greed, bad morality's (list can go on) are like "sucked" into this game. and they will find and exploit everything within the "law" leaving behind moral codecs and symphaty.

I dont agree with infinity, or anyone who tells LAZZ "its your own fault, dont blame the other person". Why not blame them? laws are something that protects us, but that doesent mean that everything we do inside them, is what is the right thing to do. And because she dident do anything "wrong" according to the "laws" doesent equal it as being right... Its within the laws. but its a scumbag move. and a bad example on humanity, and its sometimes exploiting nature...

I have nothing, and i mean ABSOLUTELY nothing posetive to say about people who exploit other people's mistakes... or for that reason. people who laughs at other people's unluck...

This is the majority's opinion. but there is alot out there, who only cares for their own little world...
 

LAZZ

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Lazz reimbursed me for the amp. Please no one try to purchase the amp to return it. On a side note this thread had 10,000 more hits than the Famous Entropians II thread did lol.

V/R
Wildman
Yep i payed Wildman 4k for my misstake, so atm i cant pay for another amp sry.
Sure i could got a cheaper amp and returned it to him i gess, but i know he was selling it and needed the peds not the amp.And since it was my misstake and hes a old friend i figure it was better just to pay him a decent amount and move on.
End of storry i hope ;)

FINALLY.......

The 45 pages of "I'm an idiot" can be closed......

Menace
Not sure why u think im a idiot but ty.
I belive its up to me to close the thread or the mods if they se it nessasary?
In my opinon i think it can stay open, some may have some coment still or read and learn here.

AMP is still out their not sure if Lazz still pursue the issue or not.

and 36 pages now. :rolleyes:
I got 18 pages btw ;p

Thx for all the nice suport i got from so many here i realy apreciate it for sure, there is still some hope for humanity i belive ;)
Regards
Lazz
 

LAZZ

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This project is doomed from the beginning...

People we are talking a game with "REAL" money... Greed, bad morality's (list can go on) are like "sucked" into this game. and they will find and exploit everything within the "law" leaving behind moral codecs and symphaty.

I dont agree with infinity, or anyone who tells LAZZ "its your own fault, dont blame the other person". Why not blame them? laws are something that protects us, but that doesent mean that everything we do inside them, is what is the right thing to do. And because she dident do anything "wrong" according to the "laws" doesent equal it as being right... Its within the laws. but its a scumbag move. and a bad example on humanity, and its sometimes exploiting nature...

I have nothing, and i mean ABSOLUTELY nothing posetive to say about people who exploit other people's mistakes... or for that reason. people who laughs at other people's unluck...

This is the majority's opinion. but there is alot out there, who only cares for their own little world...
The "project" served a purpose imo, ewen if i dont se it as a project hehe
Else i do agree with u my friend :)
 

Infinity

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Actually i dont really want this amp. Bidding on items is not really my thing, i am more the buyout type :rolleyes:
I did bid on it because i think Lazz should never make this pathetic tread. Instead he could act like a man, give his friend peds or new amp and move on. Right away when he made his mistake. But when he made this thread, calling the names of people that were bidding on it etc i decided to bid on the amp.
Also i dont feel miserable for anyone that makes a mistake in this game. It is your own fault, not the other player and not mindark's.
Anyhow, i seriously dont care if you put me on your shitlist, dont want to trade with me or whatever else. I sell my items anyway. If its not to you, then someone else buys it.

:)
 
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