"VTOL-hunting" IS an exploit, now confirmed by support!

Karmic

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so uh, when are they going to fix the exploit that people can make a circle around a mob and sweat it and then kill it as it's not moving much due to the circle, which almost happens daily at neas?

How is that remotely similar? the ambu are still hitting people. simple fix is to make VTOL damageable by mobs and retain the aggro that you have when you get in one but do not create aggro on new mobs if you are inside.
 

mastermesh

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How is that remotely similar? the ambu are still hitting people. simple fix is to make VTOL damageable by mobs and retain the aggro that you have when you get in one but do not create aggro on new mobs if you are inside.

It's similar because people are using tactics, which is something there should be more of in game, not less. I agree, make the VTOL damageable. Also, as to the Neas comment, make the ambu jump high enough to jump over the circles and to also jump high enough to hit a nearby vtol.
 

Oleg

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It's similar because people are using tactics, which is something there should be more of in game, not less. I agree, make the VTOL damageable. Also, as to the Neas comment, make the ambu jump high enough to jump over the circles and to also jump high enough to hit a nearby vtol.

God mode is not a tactic.
 

xillonz

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God mode is not a tactic.

...

This isn't "god mode".

God mode is a mode acquired via console commands where even successful attacks don't damage you.

This style of playing results in players having properties similar to those that they get from activating God Mode in other games. Specifically, they acquire these properties via a tactic. It might be an imbalanced tactic, but don't say it's not a tactic because it's imbalanced.


TL;DR: Saying "god mode is not a tactic" be trolling.
 

Fopsie

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Yea make the VTOLS damageble by normal mobs sins there is so meny of them available on the market :duh:

What a retarded Idea. Simple fix that wont cause us even more decay on our non UL VTOLS is to give us time to enter like 5 - 10 seconds before we can enter the VTOL. That will cause those abusing the sytem to get damage and remove the exploit at the same time without causing us more ped
 

Fredy Olafson

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good idea Fopsie with the delay when entering VTOL . + rep for that and maybe MA can apply it since is just simple and efficient .
could be some sort of door animation and a timer until VTOL is ready to oparate and problem is solved indeed . as for VTOLs to take dmg in non pvp are is a silly idea . if that happens, i rather buy ME and jump by TP chip instead of paying very high MU for VTOL that keeps me 4-5 days before it breaks .
 
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hegidr

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Time delay is only good solution! MA did not want to VTOL is vulnerable because mob aggro, if they do that ill simple fly over mobs at 40-50m range when other ppl hunt down and they gona be attacked by all of em...offcorse i cant get hit becase most mobs do close dmg at 30m or something and i will stay at 50 and aggro... Thats why this is feature not a BUG.
 

AlphaGeek

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...Simple fix that wont cause us even more decay on our non UL VTOLS is to give us time to enter like 5 - 10 seconds before we can enter the VTOL...


Ya know, if they just closed the canopy when no avatars are on board, and then when an avatar starts to board, cycle the canopy animation before the avatar gains access, this would look perfecly plausible.
 

Optima

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Again. I dont think anyone wants to lessen the useabiliy of the VTOL's. Not MA not FPC nor the community.

This isn't about usability though, its about systematically exploiting a design-flaw to be able to kill something cheaper than anyone else thats not also exploiting the same design-flaw.
Doesn't really matter if people think it should be a part of the game, since its not. If you want it to be a part of the game to be able to trap, use VTOL's for hunting in this manor or whatever one might like to see ingame, thats for the "wishes" part of this forum, not for defending what is atm a proven cheat.

Huge difference between that and using it to escape a mobtrain some a$$hole decided would be "fun" in the middle of nowhere.

I have no clue how to fix this, lots of interesting suggestions in thread though
Maybe tagging a mob delays takeoff until one has been hit by the tagged mob, or XX seconds have passed (or both i guess).
Or same scenario but simply make an XX second delay on actually getting into a vehicle to avoid the VTOL being fooked up (atleast dying is free if worst comes to worst...)
That way you can run the other way even if youre so insanely unlucky as to tag a mob just! as a mobtrain appears on radar (hardly often the timing is that bad now is it).
Since if youre already tanking the mob you shot youre free to go instantly.
Might even work with current system, the VTOL being the "stuck mob" that you cant shoot unless it hits you first or XX seconds pass?

Dunno, not a programmer so dont have a clue as to whats possible here.

Btw may i ask... Do you really think they implemented VTOL to avoid people dying?
Ive always seen them as practical transport (and for pvp although thats a different discussion...).
The only reason they made them invulnerable and non aggro for mobs was to avoid the user mobtraining and similar stuff i thought?
Not so you had a place to hide if you tagged the wrong mob or something spawned on you?

I know alot of people like that feature about them (and yes in the single case of mobtrains i think its great), just asking if you think it was an intended part of VTOL that you can now get out of more or less any situation unharmed?
 

Fredy Olafson

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Again. ...........................

yet another post where you don't say anything new. probably you want to keep the subject "hot" .
no worries MA knows now they are loosing money that way and for sure they won't forget it .
and if you still mime confusion better find out that mobs not attacking VTOLs it was featureas LightStar very well pointed out
# Creatures don't attack flying vehicles.
http://planetroster.entropiauniverse.com/updates/

now : -the bug hypothesis : bug was when your skirt was out of your armor but players liked it and MA let the things this way . sure at the begining they did not intend such result , but they did intend that "Creatures don't attack flying vehicles"
- the exploit hypothesis : exploit is when you could sweat mobs at the server border or when you hit with sword the auctioneer and get skills but no decay . that's exploit because for sure auctioneer wasn't designed to be hit with sword and mobs weren't designed to stop at server borders without entering in condition mode , but VTOLs were designed so "Creatures don't attack flying vehicles".
now what some players did is called inovation and for sure is not their fault . but MA is aware of the situation and hopefully will apply a solution that doesn't increase players costs using VTOLs but prevents them from ping-pong the mobs .
*and i own VTOl but didn't ping-pong mobs .
 

Bear

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Its a feature unless MA says something else.

AND its not that you have an advantage to other players. VTOL are quite cheap compared to some Mod/Imp/Adj/Shadow/Suprem.... stuff. Or would you say its an exploit to own a Mod FAP?
 

jetsina

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It’s not like it’s an undocumented side-effect of the internal workings of the universe architecture, such as a particular effect at server boundaries or so. It’s a publicised feature of a particular vehicle! This is not a bug, nor is it an exploit to use it – it is at most a tactic not considered (or considered irrelevant) by the programme designers at the time.

Time and time again we are told to find out about the universe, and that with knowledge and experience will come higher efficiency in what we do, but having a strategy which combines features – oh no, that’s considered an exploit!

Next point: either teamwork is allowed, or it isn’t. Teams can be built, therefore it is allowed, as is, I imagine, teaming up without actually building a team, such as at Nea’s with sweating. If mobs go for the avatar doing most damage to them, then ofc you can take a short rest (and fap) in a team when it turns to you, or stand further apart so that the mob is out of hitting range for longer. Making use of a particular vehicle is just like climbing a tree or so to escape for a while – nothing wrong with that if the features of the game enable something like that. But what about cliffs which aren't straight combined with mobs which attack in a straight line? Isn't it soooo funny to see an attacking mob fall away to its demise in the water because it is too stupid to know otherwise (or is it the result of limited implementation)? Now isn't that an exploit for clearing a path in some areas? Use the geography Luke!
What about having a tp chip, and thus being able to access areas others can't. Is that a mining exploit to use a tp chip when out mining? Answers: no and no, by the way ;).

What about the MA mob exploit of ‘stuck’ mobs, though, where they cannot be hit until after they have hit you first if you get close enough or after they free themselves? That’s an MA exploit for starters if you ask me, as it generates extra revenue from an ‘inconsistent’ situation resulting from ‘unresolved’ programming problems.

I agree it may sometimes be a problem to make things consistent when an advantage suddenly becomes bigger than intended (VTOLs as a panic room), but it's not like programmers can't turn on the lights amongst their grey cells and implent an 'unhittable if velocity >10 mph' rule if they want to....
Oh, but wait - is that unhittable or untaggable by the mob? Now that would be a new exploit - a slow train - mob migration per slow VTOL ;). I wonder if programmers can think about consequences more than one step at a time?

Sorry for sarcasm, but I played chess as a child - thus thinking a couple of steps ahead really is child's play for me!!!
 
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the-unknown

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Even if they make vtols attackable, I just had another thought.

Get 2 or more vtols.

Hire pilots

Ping pong the mobs - hop into hovering vtol, take off, go out of range as needed.

So, will this also be an exploit? I dont see any way that this could be "fixed" without breaking all sorts of things.
 
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I dont see any way that this could be "fixed" without breaking all sorts of things.

As I suggested before: If you are on the aggro list of a mob that is not stuck you are forbidden to get into a vehicle. That would fix the "exploit" (MA still has to tell us if it is one) without breaking anything I can think of.
 

mastermesh

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No wonder it took so many years for vehicles to be in game, lol.
 

Smoerble

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As I suggested before: If you are on the aggro list of a mob that is not stuck you are forbidden to get into a vehicle. That would fix the "exploit" (MA still has to tell us if it is one) without breaking anything I can think of.

That's stupid, sorry.
If a duck wants to bite me, i want to jump into my car and drive away.

Correct solution:
If a mob attacks you, it will follow you, no matter if you are in a VTOL or not, that simple (as before: until out of radar etc). I don't understand anyway, why MA made a difference between VTOLs and cars for this.
 

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I'm not sure why people keep denying that this is an exploit. The whole point of the thread is that support say it is an exploit and that you risk being banned if you use it.

No doubt when that happens the same people will come here crying about it.
 
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That's stupid, sorry.

I don't take offence easily.

If a duck wants to bite me, i want to jump into my car and drive away.

This is a game with very special rules, not the real life.

Correct solution:
If a mob attacks you, it will follow you, no matter if you are in a VTOL or not, that simple (as before: until out of radar etc). I don't understand anyway, why MA made a difference between VTOLs and cars for this.

So how exactly does your "correct solution" stop the "exploit" with the method the-unknown described?

(I sure as hell don't want to get myself into a flame war. I just want to have an adult discussion about this problem.)

Edit: I just remembered that other games do something like this. "You can't do this/that while being attacked." I think I got that message in EQ2.
 
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Smoerble

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I don't take offence easily.



This is a game with very special rules, not the real life.



So how exactly does your "correct solution" stop the "exploit" with the method the-unknown described?

(I sure as hell don't want to get myself into a flame war. I just want to have an adult discussion about this problem.)

Edit: I just remembered that other games do something like this. "You can't do this/that while being attacked." I think I got that message in EQ2.

I don't say, you are stupid and don't want to say this, I mean the solution is stupid. And I am not talking about RL, I am talking about in game. If I decide for any reason, I want to get away, no game has to stop me from doing anything I want. There are tons of reasons why I sometimes stop hunting in the middle.

About the jump between two VTOLs: I don't see a difference if I have only one VTOL and one pilot.

In the end people discuss a problem that doesn't happen often. I personally didn't see one hunter who used this method. I have seen this in missions, but not for hunting. So MA is not losing _that_ much money, and if you need a pilot too, then this will be even less players.

I don't want to see a limitation of my actions, because I don't see a big potential of exploit here.
 

Aura Lily

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Hopefully reason will prevail in regards to this issue and a solution will be presented that will not require a total nerf of vtols into uselessness
 
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Hopefully reason will prevail in regards to this issue and a solution will be presented that will not require a total nerf of vtols into uselessness

I am sure whatever happens you will still be able to fly them. :yay:
 

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the bigger issue here is that any bug/exploit is really a feature until it's reported... and vice versa... because any feature could be considered a bug by someone else if it devalues their assets or gameplay.

should be the other way around... should be some quality control to detect problems before they are released, not after they are released and used.

eula even sort of implies that itself...
http://legal.entropiauniverse.com/legal/eula.xml

I DO NOT see it as exploit, why would it be an exploit? Anyone can buy VTOL and do that, if that would be an exploit then the armor or fap should be an exploit and certainly if someone faps you - that is pure scamming!

unfare advantage - well - land area is even bigger advantage - those "bustartds" land owners carge tax and get money for nothing! Huh!?
 

Talania

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One way to fix vehicles being used to kill mobs without having to fap, get armor decay or die would be to make the mob regen full health if the target it is going after hops in a vehicle.

This would not be a problem for someone mining or just trying to escape a mob train. :)

If there was more then one person shooting it maybe only the damage the person hopping in the vehicle did would be regen and then if someone else was doing damage on the mob they would not lose the ammo they used at least.

No one posted a response to my idea. No one noticed it? :cry:
:whiner:
 

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well, what about this: I shoot a slow walking mob, jump into VTOL, fly 50 meters (so its inside radar), drop out, shoot it again, fly... etc. This would be a normal fair way to hunt and wouldn't be possible anymore.

Also I have to say, i doubt, that MA gets something like this working, they struggly often on way more simple bugs.
 

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One way to fix vehicles being used to kill mobs without having to fap, get armor decay or die would be to make the mob regen full health if the target it is going after hops in a vehicle.

This would not be a problem for someone mining or just trying to escape a mob train.

If there was more then one person shooting it maybe only the damage the person hopping in the vehicle did would be regen and then if someone else was doing damage on the mob they would not lose the ammo they used at least.
No one posted a response to my idea. No one noticed it? :cry:
:whiner:

I dont like that one bit even tho I wouldn't use the VTOL thingy, I do however like the idea where the mob are still able to damage your VTOL if it have you in it's "aggro list"
Still some people would be able to use this but it would demand a better coordination not to get your VTOL smashed to bits by a Falx or Dasp.

But VTOLs shouldn't aggro if you just fly over the mobs without jumping out (making it cost a bit to mobtrain with them)
 

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First: I actually don´t care much about what the Support tells someone in a private message.
If MA does not declare it an exploit in an open message to everyone how can anyone dare to call it an exploit. Support says that they are aware of it. If so, and its an exploitable bug, MA should either fix it asp and/or tell everyone that they might be locked because its an exploit.

Second: It has allways been possible to ping pong mobs or to gang them up with a bunsh of nacked hunters. Its just more compfy now with a VTOL. Beside that, its not that MA does not get any decay at all compared to armor deacay. Yes, decay and fuel consuption is lower that decay on armor - but VTOL use up fuel as soon as you sit (or not, maybe i am wrong with that).

Third: What a :cry: is that? So you "invested" a lot in some armor to hunt big mobs alone. Now others can do that as team without that tt+100k armor. :laugh:
It just makes it more obvious that those prices are a pure bubble. The only advantage "above others" that i can see is that those "others" did not needed to buy that armor. They bought a VTOL and hunt as team.

If MA will declare it as an exploit (in the open) its the same s*it as with the banks. Someone plays smart, smarter than MA thought ->Lock and new Law...
 
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