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TheOneOmega said:
For that matter, what should an honest player do in the face of uncertainty about this type of occurrence? It's not obvious to me. It's easy to say that if a player knows with virtual certainty that their performing actions would constitute an exploit, then they should not perform those actions and should report the bug. But what if the individual places, say, 50% credence in an outcome being a bug and 50% credence in it being an occurrence of resonance or happy hour or an unknown event? It's far from clear that an honest player should be expected to forego a plausibly-legitimate strategy, when to do so would be a terrible pragmatic mistake if the occurrence turns out to be within the bounds of developer intent. "Don't do it if you think it might be a bug" seems unattainably restrictive in just about any game, let alone a sandbox in which player creativity is supposed to take center state in the formation of individuals' user experiences. The chilling effects of such a metapolicy would be ruinous for the Entropian spirit. Perhaps the most reasonable course of action to jointly minimize policy error and pragmatic error over a sequence of such cases would be to juice the living daylights out of the opportunity if you want to but also report it, and state in the report that you'll keep the items obtained in Storage for a week or two rather than circulating them through the economy, just in case the opportunity is later announced as a bug and MindArk decides to do some sort of rollback? That's still a lot of preemptive responsibility to expect all honest Entropians to take, and it really feels like we shouldn't have to deal with this at all.
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It was an obvious bug.
 
When stuff like this happens I ask myself whether there is anything else around to suggest they at least partially intended something. Mostly things happen because of interventions having unintended larger consequences...
In this case, aren't we about to get space mining, that may alter the numbers of miners dedicated to the planetary economy? Maybe it was decided to push out a few more items for encouraging 'locked in planet mining'! That MA can easily end up an order of magnitude off balance is not unheard of, as in 100 click bps instead of just 2 or 3 clicks etc etc etc etc etc...
We'd be speaking about an error then, not a bug. It is often the finger-tappy human operative at work, not the software that was 'bugged'.
 
My|MindArk said:
You have already found out the following in this thread by others, but I just wanted to let you know that we are currently doing temporarily bans to some avatars due to a pending investigation regarding exploitation of Mining Strongboxes ❤️
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:popcorn:I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.
 
Krillzoo said:
If you put a dollar into a vending machine and it gives you two dollars back and a soda, it's a bug. If you stand there for two hours feeding the machine dollars, you're exploiting the bug. Pretty straight forward.
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Correct, that one's pretty straightforward. If the next bug is the Trade Terminal paying out double and folks are buy/sell cycling Sollomate Whateveo (L)'s to Entropia's vending machine for two hours I think this analogy will merit adopting a less sympathetic prior (even so, I would want to live in a world in which MindArk treats individuals on a case-by-case basis rather than issuing collective punishment; there would probably be an admittedly small minority of suspects who were genuinely just fishing for a high TIR item when it happened).
 
TheOneOmega said:
That's still a lot of preemptive responsibility to expect all honest Entropians to take, and it really feels like we shouldn't have to deal with this at all.
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That's true.

Still i'd rather have MA with balls then no balls.

Soft tone and fair to all bubblewrap treatment has lead us to this situation.

Is it not?

Cut the crap MA, Do your investigation and swing the hammer where needed!

Earn the respect and authority you once held!
 
My|MindArk said:
You have already found out the following in this thread by others, but I just wanted to let you know that we are currently doing temporarily bans to some avatars due to a pending investigation regarding exploitation of Mining Strongboxes ❤️
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I'm curious to see the outcomes of this one and how an individual exploited this. Unless they figured out a way to spawn the finder in the boxes, it seems like this was on an error on MindArks side and a handful of people significantly benefited from it...much like the (L) whip BP or when redulite was raining and half the game was running around mining it (to name just a few)
 
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Boo Who You said:
I'm curious to see the outcomes of this one and how an individual exploited this. Unless they figured out a way to spawn the finder in the boxes, it seems like this was on an error on MindArks side and a handful of people significantly benefited from it...much like the (L) whip BP or when redulite was raining and half the game was running around mining it (to name just a few)
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What most likely happen ma adjusted some values server side and over did it. They are constantly changing caps and values to keep you lot cycling by feeding you a new gun or something.

Also not so long ago they changed cap on pyrite and their was a massive rush for it. Can add that to list of events considering bulk of it was claimed by the 24/7 characters.
 
Boo Who You said:
I'm curious to see the outcomes of this one and how an individual exploited this. Unless they figured out a way to spawn the finder in the boxes, it seems like this was on an error on MindArks side and a handful of people significantly benefited from it...much like the (L) whip BP or when redulite was raining and half the game was running around mining it (to name just a few)
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Exactly, I am one of the avatars that is banned, I was not even at home, my boys where playing and told me that there is a high drop rate on finders so I deposited for 50 keys and let them open the boxes we got it and stack from mining total 18 boxes.

Today I would do the same again, this is RCE opportunity in straight actions like opening a box, shooting a mob, mining a certain area should not be punished with ban by MA.

I am naïve and hoping that MA is investigating something where ppl did something wrong to tiger situation, but I am sure this was not a client end bug, it was clearly on their end.

And I never complained to them or on the forum that last year I opened over 20.000 boxes and didn't looted anything valuable, except two bloody rare tokens, which force me in to the Mayhem dance where I lost my ass to get the M tokens. THANKS MA!

Again, if tomorrow an opportunity is appearing where I can loot, claim (mob or box) with normal activity from the game I will do it again. Its not an exploit what my soon did.

Based on their action I will really consider every deposit I make it from today on!
 
mczimi said:
Exactly, I am one of the avatars that is banned, I was not even at home, my boys where playing and told me that there is a high drop rate on finders so I deposited for 50 keys and let them open the boxes we got it and stack from mining total 18 boxes.

Today I would do the same again, this is RCE opportunity in straight actions like opening a box, shooting a mob, mining a certain area should not be punished with ban by MA.

I am naïve and hoping that MA is investigating something where ppl did something wrong to tiger situation, but I am sure this was not a client end bug, it was clearly on their end.

And I never complained to them or on the forum that last year I opened over 20.000 boxes and didn't looted anything valuable, except two bloody rare tokens, which force me in to the Mayhem dance where I lost my ass to get the M tokens. THANKS MA!

Again, if tomorrow an opportunity is appearing where I can loot, claim (mob or box) with normal activity from the game I will do it again. Its not an exploit what my soon did.

Based on their action I will really consider every deposit I make it from today on!
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Well this is a good attitude, they already officaly called it an exploit so i hope the punishment is enough for once you may change your mind on getting a quick buck at any cost.
 
mczimi said:
Exactly, I am one of the avatars that is banned, I was not even at home, my boys where playing and told me that there is a high drop rate on finders so I deposited for 50 keys and let them open the boxes we got it and stack from mining total 18 boxes.

Today I would do the same again, this is RCE opportunity in straight actions like opening a box, shooting a mob, mining a certain area should not be punished with ban by MA.

I am naïve and hoping that MA is investigating something where ppl did something wrong to tiger situation, but I am sure this was not a client end bug, it was clearly on their end.

And I never complained to them or on the forum that last year I opened over 20.000 boxes and didn't looted anything valuable, except two bloody rare tokens, which force me in to the Mayhem dance where I lost my ass to get the M tokens. THANKS MA!

Again, if tomorrow an opportunity is appearing where I can loot, claim (mob or box) with normal activity from the game I will do it again. Its not an exploit what my soon did.

Based on their action I will really consider every deposit I make it from today on!
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What guys? you can't give an account to anyone) only you have to play on it!
 
avalonis said:
What guys? you can't give an account to anyone) only you have to play on it!
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You can let people play your acc but cant have more than 1, so sign up your pets or partners is common.
 
Many many years ago I noticed that getting a fap from an exo or something was an indication that the chance was higher than normal of getting another one. It was long before I understood what waves were as such.
Loot composition simply ISN'T random, and there are mobs with 'patterns', as most of us know by now. [edit: and other areas now presumably, such as boxes.]
Could even the early bird that catches the worm be guilty of exploiting waves in this SNAFU world?

Calling something an exploit is just as 'individual' as calling a human error a bug, in my opinion. If it gains the importance of becoming a company position, then that can be where the shit hits the fan, as they say...

edit: looking at the life stats, aside from it apparently not registering loots withing seconds of oneanother, the patterns look similar to normal, that a player opens boxes over 20 mins or whatever and gets a couple of ziplexes. The difference to me is the number of people doing it (those that we see tracked ofc). Even then it is not a spectatcular number. I understand the supply of boxes is not huge, so the stacks people open are not huge either.

Maybe the gold has always been in them there hills, but mining runs have usually been limited. Maybe now it was a 'rush', so my question is: how many boxes were opened in the rush compared to normal, and what was the drop rate? Was it abnormal, MA?
I'm thus sorry to have jumped to a potential assumption of employee error, when looking at the stats a bit more closely doesn't necessarily suggest even that!
 
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It’s clear that the situation with the Ziplex finders was the result of an unintentional backend mistake, and I think we can all agree that the real challenge here is navigating how players should react when something like this happens. While it's tempting to jump on a potential opportunity, there's a fine line between a lucky break and an exploit.

I appreciate that MindArk is taking the time to thoroughly investigate this and has temporarily banned accounts involved for a proper review. Hopefully, this sets a clear precedent for how similar situations will be handled moving forward.
 
Oh maaan :cry:...i missed the happy hour again, i hope MA learns from their mistake and next time puts the time and date in Client Loader so we can all enjoy spamming rares, because when you look at it now the poor people that were "smart" will be accused of expolit...i mean that is just unfair.
Like every other time this stuff happened if there is enough of us doing it then it's ok me thinks, if you don't agree you are just salty,mad,bigot,forum troll...etc.
I mean imagine MA refills Mayhem trader and messes up the token/rare token price for some new uber weapon and you see it and you are aware of the mistake and MA addresses it was a mistake but you just go pull it out for peanuts i think that is just fine....screw the rest that is participating in this nice game :)
 
delta force said:
if you don't agree you are just salty,mad,bigot,forum troll...etc.
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I dont agree with you, been online most ofthe time. Had boxes and keys in inventory but also had a common sense and decency not to abuse the situation that happened.
Tbh i dont rly care that much about punishment for those who clearly abused it but would love if MA could do something to prevent it in future or if something like this happen again to deal with it earlier then 24h +
 
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MrBabul said:
I dont agree with you, been online most ofthe time. Had boxes and keys in inventory but also had a common sense and decency not to abuse the situation that happened.
Tbh i dont rly care that much about punishment for those who clearly abused it but would love if MA could do something to prevent it in future or if something like this happen again to deal with it earlier then 24h +
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Then you are one of the decent peoples still participating in this game...btw i forgot to put *sarcasam* in my rant.
 
Clearly, there was not only the "box openers" that were involved into this ( and therefor only them got banned )
* PCF thread start ( like this one ) showing all the players what is wrong ( specially the ones that are not only in game ) so they could log in and start doing it ...
* Many people in Calytrade/other chats , were clearly saying what EXACTLY was the issue (even for some people that was obvious) .
* And last , with all thoses informations giveen above, the box holders knew the situation and what was hapenning, and they "helped" in some way for the openers to be able to open .. ( and making a lot of profits in beetwen, boxes were going 50-70ped at some point ) .

So ... Perma ban all EU or ... ?
 
Sub-Zero said:
So basically the usual happen, people find exploit. All the usual exploiters and their friends go exploit knowing they'll get a slap on the wrist, in this case 5 day ban, a few new ones try some too because they know from past RM exploit that it was mild sentence. Each time this happens more and more will do it.

How is this a deterrent MA? @Ludvig|MindArk

This only gives people more courage to exploit because they know they'll get mild sentence. At very least should remove those Ziplex from the people who looted a ton of ziplex and if they tried to give to "friends" or alts lock them fking liquidate them.

And for the love of god, hire better bug testers or coders because adding a clothing update should not break smth like mining box...
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Players are locked during an investigation. This is a standard practice while we investigate a situation. Further punishment will be given to those who we find guilty of this exploit!
 
diablohell said:
Clearly, there was not only the "box openers" that were involved into this ( and therefor only them got banned )
* PCF thread start ( like this one ) showing all the players what is wrong ( specially the ones that are not only in game ) so they could log in and start doing it ...


So ... Perma ban all EU or ... ?
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If me creating pcf topic after whole day of ziplex spam was a way to encourage players to do so then im more then happy to be blocked for investigation aswell.
Also first i informed Live Chat support about that but they couldn't do much.
 
diablohell said:
Clearly, there was not only the "box openers" that were involved into this ( and therefor only them got banned )
* PCF thread start ( like this one ) showing all the players what is wrong ( specially the ones that are not only in game ) so they could log in and start doing it ...
* Many people in Calytrade/other chats , were clearly saying what EXACTLY was the issue (even for some people that was obvious) .
* And last , with all thoses informations giveen above, the box holders knew the situation and what was hapenning, and they "helped" in some way for the openers to be able to open .. ( and making a lot of profits in beetwen, boxes were going 50-70ped at some point ) .

So ... Perma ban all EU or ... ?
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Nope.

Someone might have sold the boxes but person who decided to buy and open them with dollar pictures in their eyes is to be blamed.

Especialy when it was clear looting was irregular.

Take responbility of your own actions.
 
My|MindArk said:
Players are locked during an investigation. This is a standard practice while we investigate a situation. Further punishment will be given to those who we find guilty of this exploit!
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Any locked accounts auctions of rugaritz, dunkel and finders has been canceled.

Most those that are cleared of suspicion have gotten their accounts unlocked.

For those who we found guilty, we've retrieved all items from the boxes from their accounts. Their accounts remained locked and will be given further punishments.
 
My|MindArk said:
Any locked accounts auctions of rugaritz, dunkel and finders has been canceled.

Most those that are cleared of suspicion have gotten their accounts unlocked.

For those who we found guilty, we've retrieved all items from the boxes from their accounts. Their accounts remained locked and will be given further punishments.
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Well done! 👏👏👏
 
My|MindArk said:
Any locked accounts auctions of rugaritz, dunkel and finders has been canceled.

Most those that are cleared of suspicion have gotten their accounts unlocked.

For those who we found guilty, we've retrieved all items from the boxes from their accounts. Their accounts remained locked and will be given further punishments.
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Im actualy surprised. Guess you guys may actualy be trying to scub the grime off the walls for this fancy unreal 5 unveil. Good to see keep it up and make the punishment those clearly guilty severe enough they think twice next time.
 
My|MindArk said:
Any locked accounts auctions of rugaritz, dunkel and finders has been canceled.

Most those that are cleared of suspicion have gotten their accounts unlocked.

For those who we found guilty, we've retrieved all items from the boxes from their accounts. Their accounts remained locked and will be given further punishments.
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Can we have a number of how many are still locked?
 
My|MindArk said:
Any locked accounts auctions of rugaritz, dunkel and finders has been canceled.

Most those that are cleared of suspicion have gotten their accounts unlocked.

For those who we found guilty, we've retrieved all items from the boxes from their accounts. Their accounts remained locked and will be given further punishments.
Click to expand...

Faith in MA restored by 50%.

"Pulls credit card out, makes a deposit"

I am not attacking anyone, I do feel sorry for the players of course, but rules are rules...

I hope this will be a lesson for all of us including myself.

"Carries on shooting".
 
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