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Question: Are we born equal?

I think not, since everyone is unique and randomness does not exsist in computers.

Everyone is a number Player ID
Randomnes is calculated, I do not know whether player ID does infact also contribute in the sum.
 
Brooklyn said:
Frank|FPC: To everybody: There's no discrimation or preferrencial treatment given to anybody based on either personal relationships or deposits etc. None whatsoever, never has been , never will be

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...rum-chatroom-session-frank-fpc-simon-fpc.html
Click to expand...

In retrospect, this part is rather hilarious

Frank|FPC: ..I remember when Calypso went gold in '03 and it's still remembered by the community as a great time and I oftern read people saying "you should have been there" or "I wish I was there". Well its going to be the same thing for a period with the Cry release. You're going to kick yourself if you weren't there..

Ty for link, I hadn't read that.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brooklyn again. Clearly I spread too little of that stuff, last was several days ago.
 
I actually did say this years back (also here on EF I believe) that I'm sure we are all born with different 'main lucky skills'. I have always been a shit miner - no ideas why - but somehow that was not what I was born to do.

Back then I was sure I was meant to be a crafter, because I got SO nice loot ... that changed a couple of years back - really changed a year back and not what theory does NOT hold water ...

I guess you have a luck cyclus ... and I'm guessing some have a luck cyclus better than others ;)

No skills really matters - only thing that matters is if you are at the right place at the right time with the right avatar ;)
 
all my weapons and armour now have tier increase rates. these are random apparently with some in the 20-50 range, some in 60-170 range, some in 200-2000 range etc. a dice was rolled and items i own are now better or worse, or at the very least different, to others.

before this, when considering the question of "are all avatar equal" i would have entertained the possiblity there are differences but with out proof i probably believe that they would all be equal really. however, now we see a system in place that means all weapons/items are not created equal, why should we not believe the same is applied to creating avatars?
 
The theory you pose ...

Has no benefit to MA. They don't get or lose any cash from giving users a luck hidden attribute. They get no better or worse data for testing. If they are ever caught will lose a lot of players (myself included), would require extra testing and resources. . .

In short, there is absolutely no reason they would even think of adding such an attribute.


For us, this theory is untestable, and for all practical purposes irrelevant (even if it were true, there is no realistic way for us to know or specifically know what our stat is), so is for all practical purposes a non issue.


In fact, without some kind of proof that a major company would make such a silly mistake, your theory is no better than saying you get better kills while wearing red socks.
 
For sure avatars arent same ;dunno about hiden skills or so,but depending of avatar proportions(body,arms,legs) we chose we get different the angles of shooting or hiting with swords wich bring us different ways to gain skills for example
 
aridash said:
all my weapons and armour now have tier increase rates. these are random apparently with some in the 20-50 range, some in 60-170 range, some in 200-2000 range etc. a dice was rolled and items i own are now better or worse, or at the very least different, to others.

before this, when considering the question of "are all avatar equal" i would have entertained the possiblity there are differences but with out proof i probably believe that they would all be equal really. however, now we see a system in place that means all weapons/items are not created equal, why should we not believe the same is applied to creating avatars?
Click to expand...

Exactly. :lam:
 
yasic said:
The theory you pose ...

Has no benefit to MA. They don't get or lose any cash from giving users a luck hidden attribute...
Click to expand...

I am not saying I think there are "lucky" avatars, because I don't - not at all... but of course there would be an excellent reason for MA|FPC to do it. The average player seeing those globals and HoFs fly by in chat is the "carrot at the end of the stick" so to speak. That would be the drive those people would use to rationalize depositing and grinding to get skilled... so they can achieve the same.

Again, I do not believe there are "lucky" avatars.
 
Kiriku Surgun said:
I think not, since everyone is unique and randomness does not exsist in computers.

Everyone is a number Player ID
Randomnes is calculated, I do not know whether player ID does infact also contribute in the sum.
Click to expand...

Math.java.random, or however you arrange/capitalize that, gives a different number every time (~0-.99), so computers DO have random value generators. They could have something occur like that at avatar creation (linked to player ID) that effects gameplay (i.e. less than .33, hunting, greater than .66, mining, else crafting.) I actually think it is more likely to happen this way than to not have any influencing factors, as 2/3 of players or so (maybe even more, I don't feel like thinking about it :laugh:) would choose a profession that they have no innate "luck" in. It also explains why some people might hit the 90% TT return and some fall way below. Someone should make a second account and test these theories (if you want it to be a really pure experiment, do one profession, chip out, another profession, chip out, another profession, chip out. If you hit huge HoFs in one consistantly and have huge losses in the other two, that proves that Marco is a liar :laugh:)
 
aridash said:
all my weapons and armour now have tier increase rates. these are random apparently with some in the 20-50 range, some in 60-170 range, some in 200-2000 range etc. a dice was rolled and items i own are now better or worse, or at the very least different, to others.

before this, when considering the question of "are all avatar equal" i would have entertained the possiblity there are differences but with out proof i probably believe that they would all be equal really. however, now we see a system in place that means all weapons/items are not created equal, why should we not believe the same is applied to creating avatars?
Click to expand...

This is exactly what got me thinking. It does seem quite plausible that avatars and items may have unique hidden attributes about them. Thinking about it further perhaps they always had an idea to develop that further and eventually we may be able to unlock those hidden attributes just as we have unlocked coolnes, wounding etc...



yasic said:
The theory you pose ...

Has no benefit to MA.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying we do have hidden attributes or that we are not all equal. I'm considering that possibilty.

When MA created the system and adapted it through the years they have always had the dilemma of how Uber loots should be dropped. We all know loot is from players, we all pay for the Uber HoF's and ATH's. The problem with this sytem is the majority will be unhappy while the recipient of the ATH may be quite happy. How can they balance the system? Can it be made fair? How? These are questions that are worth considering. The original question are we born equal has direct relevance to all this but like I said we just don't know enough to conclude either way.



What I do know is there is no such thing as luck only rules and instructions the computer is programmed to obey. Those rules can be quite complex and to us can appear as "luck". As we have no idea of how to make sense of it...
For example consider this. Say one hundred people go hunting all equipped with the same eco equipment and all with the same skills and all hunt the same style in the same location i.e. alll do everything the same. Now 99 will loose overall and one will loot the uber ATH. How would you program the system such that it's fair, yet completely unpredictable? (you can't have it predictable because then there would be no incentive in playing? The striving for perfection to understand the system and loot big is one of the reasons why many play this game and indeed like about it. If it was predictable we'd all get quite bored and move onto the next game).
 
J. Mandrake said:
Math.java.random, or however you arrange/capitalize that, gives a different number every time (~0-.99), so computers DO have random value generators.
Click to expand...
Read the documentation about java.util.Random.setSeed() and think again.

Tussi
 
Yes

We all start in the same shoes, but with our very first step we begin a unique path. No need to add any more variables prior to that point.

:beerchug:

Miles
 
Tussi said:
Read the documentation about java.util.Random.setSeed() and think again.

Tussi
Click to expand...

Well, damn. Still, it is chosen by the computer (not the human) and thus could be classified as as close to random as it gets. I'd say that comes down to luck anyways.
 
J. Mandrake said:
Well, damn. Still, it is chosen by the computer (not the human) and thus could be classified as as close to random as it gets. I'd say that comes down to luck anyways.
Click to expand...

I found this bit in the documentation interesting:
If two instances of Random are created with the same seed, and the same sequence of method calls is made for each, they will generate and return identical sequences of numbers.
Click to expand...

If MA are using that call clearly they couldn't use the same seed for everyone. If they aren't using the same seed for everyone then we can't all be equal :) or we can all be equal in the sense we all have a random chance - depends how you look at it.

Also from looking at wikipedia it states:
A "random number generator" based solely on deterministic computation cannot be regarded as a "true" random number generator, since its output is inherently predictable.
Click to expand...

Wonder if such a system is used in EU how we could predict it?
 
Tussi said:
Read the documentation about java.util.Random.setSeed() and think again.

Tussi
Click to expand...

It was funny to take the first C++ class and see the same "random" numbers generated in same order every time....without seeding of course.

My thoughts on "luck". In order for Entropia to be legal in the U.S., it has to not be "random" or considered gambling since online gambling is illegal here. Marco has said that "skills matter" and but the rub is in the details.
 
GeorgeSkywalker said:
If MA are using that call clearly they couldn't use the same seed for everyone. If they aren't using the same seed for everyone then we can't all be equal :)
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly.
 
MA/FPC states that all avatars are 'equal', but I can't quite lose the feeling that, for example, chipping skills can throw your avatar off-balance, affecting loot.
 
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