Real life police

[GeorgeSkywalker]

I've been wondering what action(s) you can take to seek justice if you have been scammed. Reporting the incident to MA and having the scammers account locked is just not good enough sometimes.

What about taking the incident further to real life police and having the scammer prosecuted and locked up? has this ever been done in the past?
Would MA help in this process?

If this has not been done I think we as a community seriously need to think about that and pursue scammers to the fullest so that justice is achieved. Locking an account is just not good enough because the scammer just makes a new avatar and continues on their scamming rampage.

We will always have scammers in EU because real money is involved. In real life if someone attempts to steal something from you or indeed does steal from you can pursue the case in a court of law and seek justice...Why not here in EU?

I think this area definately needs to be improved. e.g. why not have MA record every conversation in pm and all different types of chat and store everything forever. So the onus is not on a player to take screenshots with date time etc as the whole thing is recorded anyway and can be refferred to in cases where an avatar needs to be pursued in a real court of law.

Its about time we got tough with scammers and not give them an easy ride annymore.

 

[bvandevelde]

i think they probably log all chat already dont they? i mean its not that hard and just text doesnt require a lot of space to store. I think it's only natural as well that our money is protected in case of scammers, although it will probably be a little bit harder for police to take action, since the scammer could be on the other side of the world..

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

i think they probably log all chat already dont they? i mean its not that hard and just text doesnt require a lot of space to store. I think it's only natural as well that our money is protected in case of scammers, although it will probably be a little bit harder for police to take action, since the scammer could be on the other side of the world..

Not sure if they log every type of chat but i may be wrong.

If someone is on the other end of the world good predicament but I'm sure something can still be done. Say someoe did you wrong and they are on the other end of the world i'm sure you could still pursue the case with the police in your country and who probably would advise you on what you can do with the other country ...I've heard of people leaving the uk here thats where i live to pursue their case abroad and get justice in the end.

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

well if you do report it to the police.... they are supposed to do something about it, because scamming = rl fraud... right?

 

[kyleen]

its possible that the person might end up getting charged wiht fraud

 

[overscore]

I think that if a scam has occured, MA has to give out all information needed to the police, if you as a victim reported it to the police and they start investigating in it.

I don't know if the police take virtual universes that serious though.

Edit; Isnt there like a minimum amount of money you have to lose for the police to even care? Also, does the TT value or the tt+markup value count then?

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

I think that if a scam has occured, MA has to give out all information needed to the police, if you as a victim reported it to the police and they start investigating in it.

I don't know if the police take virtual universes that serious though.

Edit; Isnt there like a minimum amount of money you have to lose for the police to even care? Also, does the TT value or the tt+markup value count then?

interesting points there i dont know the answer to ay of those ....maybe someone else can enlighten us


On further thoughts i was thinking maybe MA should have a department dedicated only to pursuing scammers and in a scamming incident they report it to the police automatically in sweden and the police there start investigating etc and contacting police in other countries etc. MA may have to do some of the police's work for them so that the real life police are not "reluctant" to take the incident further. After some time they would build up links with police forces around the world and it would get easier.

 

[Vedder]

It's very hard to say something specific about this, because laws are different for each country, which means that the possibilities for the RL police to get involved, depends where you live, how much you lost, and how the scam was performed.

IF the scam was illegal in YOUR country, the police will contact MA who will readily deliver all information about the suspect to the police. ID of the scammer should usually be possible without too much trouble.
Next problem however, is to find out if the scam was legal in the country where the scammer resided. And IF it is, the police in your country will contact the police in the scammers country to find out how to deal with the situation.


If I was ever scammed, I'd surely try the RL police, because when the day comes, where a scammer in EU is locked up in a RL prison (or just goes to court and receives a juicy fine), I think we'll see the number of scamers drop drastically in EU. At least I hope so.

 

[luthien]

and since according MA all trades are final the only way to be scammed is being hacked and i doubt that anyone who owns a GC got hacked yet.

 

[Gluepot]

and since according MA all trades are final the only way to be scammed is being hacked and i doubt that anyone who owns a GC got hacked yet.

I wouldn't be too sure about that

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

and since according MA all trades are final the only way to be scammed is being hacked and i doubt that anyone who owns a GC got hacked yet.

"hey you have a mod fap? and only been playing for once month? nice... but you know, I could upgrade it for you... Yeah, just put it on the floor here..."

 

[nar]

i know from the past a case of scamming with screeny's etc, MA gave the answere they cant help cause all trades are final, but they would cooperate if the person that was scammed would go to local police and report a file there.
unfortanetly the amount was not enough to make a case in that country..

greetings nar.

 

[endermigne]

i know from the past a case of scamming with screeny's etc, MA gave the answere they cant help cause all trades are final, but they would cooperate if the person that was scammed would go to local police and report a file there.
unfortanetly the amount was not enough to make a case in that country..

greetings nar.

If MA denies to work with the police they commit a crime on their own. I'm not a lawyer but let me get creative here for a sec:

- refuse to cooperate with the law enforcement agencies
- possible destruction or fraud of information/evidence
- obscuring a possible punishable act
- money laundering

Also notice that it's not a good idea to be in the news with something like this. I mean MA has big plans (CryEngine, planets, IPO, ...) so IMO it's ultra-bad news at this point.

 

[Vedder]

and since according MA all trades are final the only way to be scammed is being hacked and i doubt that anyone who owns a GC got hacked yet.

True, that GC seems safe.

But, luckily MA doesn't make the law, and if something is illegal, they WILL cooperate with the RL police.

Ofc it's not MAs job to decide what's legal and what's not, so their attitude makes a lot of sense: If a crime was comitted, it's a job for the police.

Swedish law demands that MA cooperate with the police, whether they like it or not, but ofc like the rest of us, they would love to see the scammers punished, so I'm sure they'll do anything they can to help the police.

 

[Moonfish]

hummmm

I went to the Police..... I have the police incident number

I spoke to them on the phone a lot - The London met + The Merseyside Internet fraud squad - They all said the same thing.....

1. its treated as a crime - like a stolen bag on holiday - you have to report it at the place of origin. So lets say Sweden.

2. You have to travel to Sweden to report it - get a crime number then come back - then report it to your local police.

3. The local police will look it over see if it's real - then if so, forward it to the regional crime department - this may then again be looked at and possibly go to the Met in London - or the regional Crime dept will phone EU.

Do you see where the problem is....... You have to go to Sweden 1st. You need a crime number to show the crime took place or they wont look into it.

Thats from my experience - i think different counties will look at it in different ways.

A friend in EU was scammed big time - he found there address and sent some people round got the deed back - he got it back in a week, thats what you should do - the police may or may not help.....

MA - just say go to your local police - which is kinda pointless - they really should know that the local police will do nothing apart from say go to Sweden and get a crime number.

Well if they read this they will know....

Mf.

 

[nutter]

As all items belong to MA, a scamming would involve the movememnt of an item from MA to...MA *headscratch*

So unless they withdrew money gained from the proceeds of a scam, I find it difficult to understand what crime has been committed? The items stil reside with MA, as per the EULA.

 

[AlphaGeek]

In the event of a crime in this realm, such as account hijacking & draining, scams, and the like, the complaintant should before anything else ask their local PD if they have anyone that specializes in online crimes. If so, ask for them. The reason for this is that many officers simply aren't familiar enough with cybercrime to investigate the case.

More than one juristiction may be able to help. For example, in the US, the state of Virginia's cybercrime laws regarding theft and fraud are written in such a way that if the TCP packets pass through Virginia, then Virginia also has jurisdiction. Nearly all of AOL's traffic passes through and a high percentage of all US internet backbone traffic as well.

If the amount is large (there's an 8k USD figure being tossed around elsewhere for a recent incident), it's likely a felony and more likely to be treated as a serious crime.

Make sure you mention the amount missing before anything else. Their little ears will lock on to that.


MA's tune may very well change if confronted by a court order or search warrant. While I hate for anyone to lose their stuff, it would be interesting to follow a case as it's pursued.

AG

 

[Shadowmage]

If you're turkish you can do self-justice, if not, scrap the PEDs if they're in another country, just because even if your police is working on it, means not that the other police station (especially in eastern europe, african and also some asian countries) minds what also isn't to take as arrogant, I rather think they really have other problems there. That's also why these countries are perfect for online scammers, not to say that everyone from these countries are scammers, but i'm sure that a huge percentage of scams gettin out from there. With implementing an RCE, MA has opened a door and can't shut it down again, I think that from the beginning they should have locked several countries from EU, but well, now you can't do anymore, would be unfair to the fair players.

Leaves us just one thing to do: don't trust anyone, skip each 5th goldcard code and protect your pc with best anti-spyware/virus programs.

 

[Vedder]

...
Thats from my experience - i think different counties will look at it in different ways.
...

MA - just say go to your local police - which is kinda pointless - they really should know that the local police will do nothing apart from say go to Sweden and get a crime number.
...

Well, you said it yourself: Each country has it's own laws.

Besides, a lot of police men knows very little about cyber crimes.
Imo the crime was comitted to YOU and took place where YOU were... But again, each country has it's own ways I suppose.

 

[RR1]

Hmm I need to Dial 911 because some one offered to upgrade my Goblin armor set to POE and they ran away with 3 dollars of armor.

 

[jak]

Sorry, I did not have time to read all the post ofter your start post....

But, I was scammed out of a big some, two times And I can say, for us Americans at least, the police are no help, and even the FBI is no help... MA has stated they will help the law in any mater they can... And they do keep logs and all that stuff...

But think about it, the local police can do nothing... The FBI can but only if it is serious enough... And how serious is some case where a guy gets scammed in some virtual game?

So, till MA staffs up an internal "law" unit, or changes how they work with such cases, we are all f*cked....

Sad truth, but the truth non the less...

 

[Vedder]

...And how serious is some case where a guy gets scammed in some virtual game?
...

Just as serious as if the same amount was lost due to a RL scam.

 

[AlphaGeek]

Hmm I need to Dial 911 because some one offered to upgrade my Goblin armor set to POE and they ran away with 3 dollars of armor.

Umm.. No. 911 is supposed to be only for emergencies. Reporting a crime is not an emergency unless someones life is in immediate danger. For something like this, you're supposed to use the normal phone number.

You're not likely to get any sympathy for 3 dollars, but if your complaint is over the misdemeanor level, you're far more likely to get some cops on the trail.


I used to install 911 equipment for a living. It's amazing how many "What's the phone number for...", "What times channel does Jerry Springer come on?", and "What time is it?" calls clog up the lines that are supposed to save lives.

 

[Thaddeuss]

I think MA is on the verge of being more tougher on scammers, for instance they now have the identification requirement for new accounts to get made in countrys where scammers have become an issue ei romania, lithuania etc.

Now i think the problem is with tighter security, the harder it is for new players to join... so they have to find some balance their.

When it comes to theft on a international level that can get quite messy.

Think about all the people that have been scammed on ebay from people of other countries and have no way to retaliate....

So for now i think its up to us to play smart, and play safe.

but we def need a virtual civil suit court

 

[Thorn]

I`d venture to say that unless your in law inforcement or government or are a vigilante you`ll be helpless to go after a scammer. I know a case in the US a woman was a victim of credit card fraud. The police looked into it briefly and found nothing for her. She followed up and traced some purchases to an address and presented the new evidence. The police simply said if it`s not for over 5k USD we can`t do anything. Such a nice service of protect and serve. Of course that only pertains to protecting you from yourself and serving their own interests. I hate to say it but have never gotten satisfaction when taking a probelm to the police. Always "we don`t handle that sort of thing" or "can you prove it" or "we`ll look into it here is our card" or "sorry there is not much we can do in this case".

Now take into account as has been mentioned. As far as law enforcement is concerned we are just playing some stupid game. Also that more than half of law enforcement can probably just barely navigate the internet and use their email. Until someone in government decides to find suspected "terrorist" money funneling through a platform like this or they themselves get scammed for a tidy sum the current procedures are meant to keep us out of their hair. Maybe if Neverdie got scammed out of a 1 million USD asteroid then maybe just maybe MA would step up to the plate. As is evident with most issues of losing money or items in EU the only solution comes through publicity that could negatively effect them. Why act when you don`t have to. Standard business practice these days.

 

[Monica]

Peoples peoples... It's damn 21th century, hackers can do what do they wannt, i dont think its posible to get good security against them. They know everything, i mean they know enough to hack anything, because its just computer, i would never trust to some PC by tranfering my money to\from some GAME! Its very hard to protect, little by little and EU will be hacked if they will not do anything like they dont do anything now. !!!!

 

[psychnosiz]

And IF it is, the police in your country will contact the police in the scammers country to find out how to deal with the situation

Don't overestimate the police. It's already a miracle on itself they manage to button their shirt. In my country they won't even start asking about info and just drop the case or stall it untill it's aged. Every day there are a few escapees (from heavy offenses) because someone forgot to count the inmates or lock cell doors ... They will read the EULA and tell you that you shouldn't have traded in the first place and blame yourself.

And basically ... if people would inform themselves and don't jump on every cheap offer there wouldn't be scamming in this universe. Unless you open your front door it's quite difficult to get your items stolen

 

[Champion Master]

Lets hear the gaming motto again please:
ITS JUST A GAME

I understand what you mean by taking one step further to stoping scammers but is a game worth arresting a scammer? Police man have enough in their hands with "real-life" problems. Like sure if someone hacked the ped transfer when you deposit then they should go to jail or pay fine but getting scammed in "a game" is different. You should know when its a scam and if you still get scammed well you won't by the same way. Just don't give your ped away for any reason. Well im from Champions Guild and we have 3 goals - 1.Uphold the law - 2. Protect others 3. Help newcomers. So I try to help, like im trying to be the "police" in the game

Well if you need any help please contact the society "champions guild"

 

[SuperKanjo]

ITS JUST A GAME

Is it ? too short

The Entropia Universe is more than a game. The Entropia Universe is for real. Real people, real activities and a Real Cash Economy in a massive online universe.

 

[Champion Master]

Is it ? too short

Games include real people and other things you said. Only real cash economy is concerning but that is why there is the gold card + people helping to stop scams + police stoping hackers in credit card hacking. But when the ped is in the players inventory its there responsibility. Before they deposit they said: ok i will pay for deposit for this "game".