***WoF 2010 Suggestions and Stuff***

jjmatrix

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Thanks RJ; so... Classic Support had about 26% of the total points, which is great IMHO. I remember reading somewhere, in a post from Hurrycane, that his initial plan for points contribution by Classic Support was around 25%... so it looks like he hit the mark :).
Now, if we were to somehow put in percentages the contribution of the Support that helped the Main Teams, this number will change dramatically (I'll venture a 50% ??); it's good or bad? I think it's good since I see this collaboration as one of the strong points of the WOF competition: no Main Team or Support can do really well by themselves.

One point I'd like to make is that in the support mob list I'd like to see a good looter 4 point mob (Fresco), and a 1 point easier but decent looting mob, that anyone can take on.
 

DurakJung

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A lot of conversation regarding support caps, so I figured why not add this in so people can see exactly what the support teams did:QUOTE]

Intersting figures Rayne on the whole looking at the average of the scores support percentage's are very low.

Particularly for Romania the winning team support being 17% of the total.

Averages serve a purpose however can be misleading.

Take a rare disease that can only affect on the average age of a 45 year old. The only 2 ages that can get this disease are under 1 year and over 90therefore an average of around 45.

Look at Chinas scores on Raynes spreadsheet

To seperate the last 3 Stages 4(3 rounds) 5 and 6

Round 4 taking of all support scores

The only difference to the final result
is that Scotland Portugal and Canada all had higher main team support scores than Sweden.

Swedens exceptionally high support scores got them into round 5. The remaining 5 teams would have remained the same.

Round 5 Same teams into finals Tho the combined scores (Support and main)would have swapped Sweden and USA around

Round 6 Support played no part in the final end results.
The 3 teams came in at the same place with or without support scores.

So capping the final support would play no purpose.

I am sure if I added up round 3 there would not be much difference either.

So really the amount that support has impacted on wof has not been a great deal.

Jung
 

Rayne Jade

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Well if you liked those stats, take a gander at these:

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

That is just about everything I can use compare the teams in the 2009 WoF Tournament.

Keep in mind that some teams played only 3 matches, some played 6, Semifinalists played 7, and Finalists played 8. Averages are, IMO, the way to look at this.

Also take note that Romania did not have a decisive edge in the numbers except for one: Wins (8) :thumbup:
 

DurakJung

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Excellant Rayne.

Wasnt being negative about the averages lol only saying in my own personal opinion there has been too much fuss made out of support caps, support scores etc.

I just like to throw that average joke in as a break from reality.

Romania actually have 5 higher support scores against them and 7 average per match above them.

And they WON

I suppose one can say support does have have some impact. Romania has proved it in these figures that they never won by support alone.

On the other hand support gives all of us the chance to participate earlier in an event that in the ordinary course of our skilling would take years to accomplish.

Keep up the good work.

Jung
 

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Just out of interest for the number crunchers out there.... does anyone have a good idea of how much TOTAL loot a team might get if their GLOBAL loot is say, 10,000 PED?. All the no loots, crap loots and near-globals, silent globals etc.... is there a semi-accurate figure?

Hurrikane
 

kyleen

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I'm not going to respond to this except to note how pathetic it is :rolleyes:

Cuz u very well know its true :p

Same goes for hunting solo in the same area of mobs, same type of gear some ppl tend to global less than the other.
 

Rayne Jade

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Excellant Rayne.

Wasnt being negative about the averages lol only saying in my own personal opinion there has been too much fuss made out of support caps, support scores etc.

I just like to throw that average joke in as a break from reality.

Romania actually have 5 higher support scores against them and 7 average per match above them.

And they WON

I suppose one can say support does have have some impact. Romania has proved it in these figures that they never won by support alone.

On the other hand support gives all of us the chance to participate earlier in an event that in the ordinary course of our skilling would take years to accomplish.

Keep up the good work.

Jung

Oh I wasn't picking on you regarding the mention of the averages. You made the same exact points I was hoping folks would realize upon seeing the stats. No worries :thumbup:
 

jod

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Just out of interest for the number crunchers out there.... does anyone have a good idea of how much TOTAL loot a team might get if their GLOBAL loot is say, 10,000 PED?. All the no loots, crap loots and near-globals, silent globals etc.... is there a semi-accurate figure?

Hurrikane

Well just as a bit of a guestimate using Raynes figures posted above...

It says Australia main team averaged 4.4k loot per match.
So with 4 hunters doing atleast 800-1k each lets say 3.5k + supporters that in which case we generally had another 2 hunters per main member doing I guess anywhere between 300-500ped each so lets call that part 3.5k also.

So at a really rough estimate it cost maybe between 6-8k to get that average of 4.4k loot for us.
 

Hurrikane

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Cuz u very well know its true :p

Same goes for hunting solo in the same area of mobs, same type of gear some ppl tend to global less than the other.


Are you suggesting that MA/FPC favour certain avatars (or even Nations lol) and grant them better loots etc? Absolute bullshit. As England went out in the Semi's it's even less plausible.

If there was anything more involved than the luck of getting the mob with the loot attached, explain the ATH on a trapped spider. MA must have been rewarding him for his initiative I suppose?.

LOL

Hurrikane
 

Hurrikane

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Well just as a bit of a guestimate using Raynes figures posted above...

It says Australia main team averaged 4.4k loot per match.
So with 4 hunters doing atleast 800-1k each lets say 3.5k + supporters that in which case we generally had another 2 hunters per main member doing I guess anywhere between 300-500ped each so lets call that part 3.5k also.

So at a really rough estimate it cost maybe between 6-8k to get that average of 4.4k loot for us.

4.4k was the loot from GLOBALS. I wanted an estimate on TOTAL loot recieved, not expenditure (although expenditure is a figure that I'd like for the records too)

Hurrikane
 

kyleen

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Are you suggesting that MA/FPC favour certain avatars (or even Nations lol) and grant them better loots etc? Absolute bullshit. As England went out in the Semi's it's even less plausible.

If there was anything more involved than the luck of getting the mob with the loot attached, explain the ATH on a trapped spider. MA must have been rewarding him for his initiative I suppose?.

LOL

Hurrikane

Duh! ITs very obvious that its bullshit! but nevertheless, similar teams with the same shit with the same number of ppl dont have the same luck! THats what i am getting at, some teams just do better! Not because of favoritism!

If i meant that team england is favored i would have outright said it in your face!

LOLZ
 

Rayne Jade

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Might as well throw in the Mob Averages, too...

wof_2009_mob_averages.jpg

The mobs in italics are the Bonus mobs - thus the low number of globals. One one score on those counts.

These are listed by the average global loot, highest to lowest. Naturally, there are a few statistical blips in there (the Neconu, for example) as a result of some close but not quite ATH loots. Nevertheless, this is what was killed in WoF 2009.
 

jod

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4.4k was the loot from GLOBALS. I wanted an estimate on TOTAL loot recieved, not expenditure (although expenditure is a figure that I'd like for the records too)

Hurrikane

yep for sure,now if you can get some idea what the rough balance is between global/non global loot you have something to look at ;)
 

Hurrikane

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Duh! ITs very obvious that its bullshit! but nevertheless, similar teams with the same shit with the same number of ppl dont have the same luck! THats what i am getting at, some teams just do better! Not because of favoritism!

If i meant that team england is favored i would have outright said it in your face!

LOLZ

Sorry, that's what the previous poster insinuated, thought you were agreeing:)

Hurrikane
 

Tekkie

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Duh! ITs very obvious that its bullshit! but nevertheless, similar teams with the same shit with the same number of ppl dont have the same luck! THats what i am getting at, some teams just do better! Not because of favoritism!

If i meant that team england is favored i would have outright said it in your face!

LOLZ

I think they do get exactly the same luck.... its just distributed over a much longer period than the 3 hours of a wof match. I guess you could call it luck that some teams seem to hit thier "good" periods during wof matches but the chances are equal for this for all teams. The only way I think you can influence this is by having as much DPS as possible, dying less, fapping less, shooting more and so on... buts thats all open for debate.

Also you seem to be forgetting that when a team does well you notice it, when it turns bad and they get a bad loot period.... you dont even know about it - so all you see is others doing well, you dont see them doing badly.
 
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Jimmy B

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Duh! ITs very obvious that its bullshit! but nevertheless, similar teams with the same shit with the same number of ppl dont have the same luck! THats what i am getting at, some teams just do better! Not because of favoritism!

If i meant that team england is favored i would have outright said it in your face!

There is of course an element of luck in every match, the matches are too short to eliminate luck (not that I think luck should be completely eliminated as a factor).

But still there's a consistency in the teams that do well. Luck is not picky. Teams like Sweden and Romania aren't getting to the final every year due to luck. If someone appears to always be lucky (or unlucky), it isn't luck at all.

Just out of interest for the number crunchers out there.... does anyone have a good idea of how much TOTAL loot a team might get if their GLOBAL loot is say, 10,000 PED?. All the no loots, crap loots and near-globals, silent globals etc.... is there a semi-accurate figure?

Hurrikane

I posted a more detailed answer to this question when it came up before.

In short it depends very much on the mob being hunted (e.g. a team with 10k PED global loot on Dasps will have much less total loot than a team with 10k PED global loot on Equus, assuming no bias from an out of the ordinary uberhof on the equus).

From my records, about a third of my loot is in globals. That is hunting predominantly stuff like Itumatrox, Formidons, Hisp, Kingfisher, etc, but with a fair amount of smaller mobs too from the bot war and mutant war, etc. I would say that is probably not too badly representative for support. I would guess Main Team have a higher proportion of loot in globals, particularly on rounds with enormous mobs like the Trox Slayers and Dasp Stalkers of the last two rounds.

But for lack of better data, I'd say multiply tournament global loot by 3 to get total loot is as good as estimate as we can make.
 

Hurrikane

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So that puts the total loot recieved by WoF participants this year to be somewhat more than 1.5 million PED.


O M G

Now.... how much was spent by the teams?

Hurrikane
 
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Rayne Jade

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But for lack of better data, I'd say multiply tournament global loot by 3 to get total loot is as good as estimate as we can make.

OK... let's do it. Below is the WoF 2009 Loot Progress. Each team is shown (Main & Support) for every round in which they participated. After the team name, you will see a "M" and "S"... obviously for Main on the top line, Support on the lower line.

To the right are the totals by Stage and the total for the entire tournament.

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Enjoy!
 

DurakJung

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So that puts the total loot recieved by WoF participants this year to be somewhat more than 1.5 million PED.


O M G

Now.... how much was spent by the teams?

Hurrikane



MA should love u Hurrikane, thats a whole heap of ammo decay etc.

If as someone suggested there are favourites :) you shouldnt have to even load your gun :laugh:

Jokes aside it is a scary though the amount of peds that participants spend on WoF.

Therfore the any suggestions that reduce the size of participation in WoF in MA's eyes would reduce their revenue.

Jung
 

Hurrikane

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MA should love u Hurrikane, thats a whole heap of ammo decay etc.

If as someone suggested there are favourites :) you shouldnt have to even load your gun :laugh:

Jokes aside it is a scary though the amount of peds that participants spend on WoF.

Therfore the any suggestions that reduce the size of participation in WoF in MA's eyes would reduce their revenue.

Jung

Of course MA take notice. And of course, those who create such huge income for them are not forgotten. Only yesterday, I got a 22 PED Cornoanterion....thanks Marco:thumbup:;)

Hurrikane
 

jjmatrix

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Of course MA take notice. And of course, those who create such huge income for them are not forgotten. Only yesterday, I got a 22 PED Cornoanterion....thanks Marco:thumbup:;)

Hurrikane

LOOOL!! Can't wait to see all the conspiracy theories after this!!:eek:
 

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Speaking for myself here but I am and am not looking forward to WoF 2010.
I am looking forward to this great event but I am certainly not looking forward to an event that allows the biggest wallet to win.
It seems from the 2009 WoF Final that if you have the ped to spend, you can buy up the biggest support team to ensure victory. Where was that support team throughout the qualifing stages?
If this is how the event is going to be run, then you can count me out.
Maybe there needs to be a rule that only players who have participated throughout the stages are elegible to enter in the finals.
At the end of the day, last years final was a joke!
 

Oleg

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It seems from the 2009 WoF Final that if you have the ped to spend, you can buy up the biggest support team to ensure victory. Where was that support team throughout the qualifing stages?

Hunting support mobs?

If this is how the event is going to be run, then you can count me out.

If I was your team captain I would prefer you not to be there.

Australia gained a lot of respect and goodwill in this year's tournament with some impressive performances and excellent organisation. It's a shame that a small minority of whiners who can't handle losing have since made such an effort to ruin that.

Thankfully most of your team-mates still have some dignity and I look forward to facing them in 2010 :handgun:
 

Wildman Alpha

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What i saw with last year as an issue was players team hoping. One player on several support teams wasn't good at all. Support teams need to be accounted for as well somehow. Maby 11 on a team and one judge to ensure all members of the support have been registered on the forums. Or 1 judge to just meet the support teams at a meeting spot and account for the teams. The final match was insain their were so many involved during that fight all 3 teams well exceeded their registerd users on support teams. This allowed players from other teams to help who they wanted to win and offset the balance of what the real outcome should have been!!

Another issue I saw last year was teams from other countries out hunting the mobs at the same time the team that was supposed to be hunting them were. I saw it an attempt to steal loots so other teams can't get it by thinning out the mobs that were avilible during our hunts. That realy pissed me off during the Molisk hunt to see a team that finished hunting keep their WoF country name HoF on a molisk not far from us when they shouldn't have been there at all.

I agree hard to control these factors but it should at least be addressed in the rules. Something down the line of interfering with other teams hunts. You can only hunt for the team you originaly started with. If a team had 30 support members throughout the year and 100 show up for the finals someone has to call foul there...
 

Oleg

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If a team had 30 support members throughout the year and 100 show up for the finals someone has to call foul there...

Why? England had a lot more support in the final last year than in the semi, from English people who had not played in previous matches. People are more likely to turn out for the big occasion.

It's also worth remembering that you only see huge numbers of support in one place during the later rounds. In earlier rounds they are scattered around hunting different mobs.

I don't know why people get so hung up on this idea of "foreign support" when it probably makes up about 2-3% of the total support at most (and more like 0% before the semi-final).
 

Pirx Danford

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The good thing is that Hurrikane does concentrate on the relevant rules.
No way in hell it can be regulated who exactly is doing support, its even possible to form a support team with appropriate name if you were not invited to do so.

Anyone could make a support team for every nation one would, all it needs is 2 players and a global to get you counted and it was maybe even asked of you not to do it!

So its really not possible at all to regulate what is going on in support.
Hurrikane reduced the influence support has so much that it is still giving nations an edge, but with a good scoring main team you can still beat a large support nation easily.

The problem is to inspire people...
 

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I made some nice new friends while "support team hopping." If a socmate asked, and they weren't in my timeslot I would usually join if I could. Was great fun.

I'm not really sure why the negativity about support in the final, since the spawn problem made support teams pretty irrelevant. Maybe you mean the semifinals or so.

Hunting the limited spawns while other teams are having a match is kinda dirty play to me, but molis didn't seem to me like they ran out at all.

From a first-time WoF'er last year, I had a great time up until the final, when the respawn problem made it quite frustrating for me. If that could be improved on (well, the 3 weeks on molis was a bit much too) I don't see a big reason for lots of new rules.

Maybe just setting expectations, and encouraging everyone to have as much fun with it as possible, meet new people, hunt new mobs, hunt for whomever you want to, etc, and don't worry too much about who wins.
 

Wildman Alpha

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OK... let's do it. Below is the WoF 2009 Loot Progress. Each team is shown (Main & Support) for every round in which they participated. After the team name, you will see a "M" and "S"... obviously for Main on the top line, Support on the lower line.

To the right are the totals by Stage and the total for the entire tournament.

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Enjoy!

I know team USA was averaging for main team players supporting the main combat guys we were averaging 8-10k for the 6 of us stage 5 and finals in ammo/decay. Now the ones like Star still on the main team using better gear and doing the majority of the shooting burned even more than us as they spent less time at the revive and more time shooting. So main team USA overall was burning 16-20k Ped of ammo and decay at a minimum last 2 weeks.

Now the profit margins;
6.1k ped looted stage 5 = 9.9k loss for main team
11.8k ped looted for the finals = 4.2k ped loss for main team
totals -14100 ped loss in 2 weeks (numbers don't reflect item drops just actual ped value).

So knowing what I know, YES we lose ped in this event! Do I still support it? Hell Ya!
 

Wildman Alpha

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Why? England had a lot more support in the final last year than in the semi, from English people who had not played in previous matches. People are more likely to turn out for the big occasion.

It's also worth remembering that you only see huge numbers of support in one place during the later rounds. In earlier rounds they are scattered around hunting different mobs.

I don't know why people get so hung up on this idea of "foreign support" when it probably makes up about 2-3% of the total support at most (and more like 0% before the semi-final).

If would be nice to actualy start a team with X amount of players and finish using the same players. Instead of recruting 20 other countries to help win in the end. This is where WoF is failing ya USA got beat but what good is it if the team that beat them used the extra 100 players to do it with than they started the year with that fought for other teams all year. Previous sentence is example only as USA also had players from other teams as well. I just feel once your eliminated YOUR OUT! let the team that beat you move on don't support other teams along the way to influence the outcome, why call it a team if anyone can join? It isn't a competition as Nation Vs Nation as advertised this way more like Nation Vs Allies.
 

Wildman Alpha

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Support teams can be policed up, maby not during the event but when screen shots are produced the team names can be checked against registered support members. Force Support teams to make team of 12 before starting another support team this will ensure all members names are visible on that support team. If their is a short team there should only be 1 short team if a member leaves the team keep his name listed the team is now 11. If the Country has 36 support members then they should only have globals posted from WoF Support team 1 to 3, any other name or number won't count.

A member registered on a support team can only change teams once and only if the team they started with is still in the event.
 
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