FYI: UL non-SIB weapons are still viable options

I had a scope and sights on a non-SIB carbine for ages, then recently discovered that they weren't actually doing anything.
Hoping to reach Tier II soon ;)
 
Well, you may be right JC. But every decent length test I did with UL non-SIB weps was vastly outperformed in terms of return with maxed SIB. I could have been doing something wrong of course. In the end I wrote off even considering abandoning maxed SIB until Commando, may well wait longer than that. And that's all I'll say! :D
 
my Adj97 is a viable option when i want to blast through some big atrox, hoggs or D1+2 aliens, and has been since about lvl 40. eco be damned if you just want to go hunt for a couple hours without spending on L weapons.
 
I'm 10/10 on a kilic vass (not hard lol) and it missed a fair bit... in fact, it seemed to get more misses than using my Determinations. Slow as hell too.


All my weapons are Non-SIB UNL. None of my hit ability scores are 4/10 yet.

I like to keep my stuff, L means disposable= worthless in my book.

I play on a limited budget, repairing for a few peds makes more sense than buying a whole L gun over and over.

I get skills, kill mobs, get loot... can't see L making ATH's appear where my stuff doesn't... a better return over time is negated by the boring maths and caution of playing eco...

I see how L is fine for those who play with calculators and spreadsheets in their head; all I get is red mist when I consider Eco.

UNL Non SIB Rocks!


Hurrikane
 
Jester D-1 is better then Opalo for the first 10k of ammo cycled..

i say too much.
 
Unless of course you have some substantial data to back it up.

The item to be demonstrated is wether tt return depends on damage done or on tt spent/target. I don't see how an user-generated answer is possible. Everything else is just belief, more or less educated.
 
I get skills, kill mobs, get loot... can't see L making ATH's appear where my stuff doesn't... a better return over time is negated by the boring maths and caution of playing eco...

I see how L is fine for those who play with calculators and spreadsheets in their head; all I get is red mist when I consider Eco.

UNL Non SIB Rocks!


Hurrikane

Agree < prob too short:)
 
The item to be demonstrated is wether tt return depends on damage done or on tt spent/target. I don't see how an user-generated answer is possible. Everything else is just belief, more or less educated.

Testing it isn't so hard. Finding someone who is willing to do the test a lot harder ;). Its going to be costly when the theory is wrong.
 
well i can attest that using a Mod Merc at level 100/100 has some good effect.

not going to say more, tho, don't wanna gief out secretz!
 
You don't need lvl 70+ in order to use non-SIB weapons to good effect.

A main effect is I can rarely afford L weapons but I always have UL weapons!

I'm 10/10 on a kilic vass (not hard lol) and it missed a fair bit... in fact, it seemed to get more misses than using my Determinations. Slow as hell too.


All my weapons are Non-SIB UNL. None of my hit ability scores are 4/10 yet.

I like to keep my stuff, L means disposable= worthless in my book.

I play on a limited budget, repairing for a few peds makes more sense than buying a whole L gun over and over.

I get skills, kill mobs, get loot... can't see L making ATH's appear where my stuff doesn't... a better return over time is negated by the boring maths and caution of playing eco...

I see how L is fine for those who play with calculators and spreadsheets in their head; all I get is red mist when I consider Eco.

UNL Non SIB Rocks!


Hurrikane

And I will quote Hirrikane since he sums it up nice and I won`t have to say anymore. Know what I mean know what I mean nudge nudge wink wink!


Oops maybe I will say just a little more. The story I believe is quite different for tools mainly finders!
 
I use whatever floats my boat and gives me joy UL or L SIB or non SIB

That's all I'll say.
 
This is all I'm saying.

That's all I'll say.
 
substantial data

Yes! Let's gather substantial data about depositing players using L and non depositing players using unL. :laugh:
 
Non-Sib is an option but definitely not the best option. :)

At lvl 75 dmg & 80 Hit I switched from my Mod Merc+A204 to Unl HL18+A204. resulting in doing higher dmg (Did a lot of teamHunt test and see the loot distribution) and higher eco.

The point where both would give the same dmg and eco was around lvl 85 Hit and dmg. From there on the MM would become more eco and give higher dmg.

So SIB weapons L or unl are untill a very high level more eco vs non SIB weapons.
 
Only UNL weapon with which i had good results around level 50 is ML35+dante on mobs like scipulor.. Hunt is slower little bit as you need to find good spot to effectively use the range of rifle every mob.. But with MU on lets say HL15? ML35 is pure winner, i can say ped saver :D

But this is only with scipulors as they are not so fast and are doing high decay on armor >)

But still its an example where UNL gun at level 50 is much better then SIB gun for level 50 >D
 
I tend to agree with JC; I asked myself: what if the loot somehow balances itself while using UL?

So I started doing a test, and while I agree that maybe from a statistical point of view might not be ideal, I thought it should be enough... at least to give me an idea.

The results?
- Did I miss a lot more with the UL? For sure.
- Was the average dmg less using UL? Yep.
- Did I get the feeling that I'm wasting PED? You got it.
- 2 L maxed vs 2 UL level 42; exact same setup (except the gun of course), same location, same time.
- Bottom Line: with both UL I had better return.

Ohh.. and you can read more about it here.

And that's all I have to say.
 
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I asked myself: what if the loot somehow balances itself while using UL?

1) skill would be totally useless.
2) dmg/pec would be totally useless.
3) markup on (L) guns would not be worth it.

So basically, the whole game would be ruined and the economy gone. Nobody is going to spend (much) money on gear or skills when it would not matter anyway.
 
1) skill would be totally useless.
2) dmg/pec would be totally useless.
3) markup on (L) guns would not be worth it.

So basically, the whole game would be ruined and the economy gone. Nobody is going to spend (much) money on gear or skills when it would not matter anyway.

Wait, you are arguing that it must be that way because it's the only way that makes sense? :laugh:

I've done the same before, but the more i see the way MA works, the more i have to laugh at it, regardless. I still believe it because it's the only way to rationalize participating at all, but it's more a matter of blind hope than faith at this point.

PS Exhibit A: sights and scopes.
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Wait, you are arguing that it must be that way because it's the only way that makes sense? :laugh:

I've done the same before, but the more i see the way MA works, the more i have to laugh at it, regardless. I still believe it because it's the only way to rationalize participating at all, but it's more a matter of blind hope than faith at this point.

PS Exhibit A: sights and scopes.
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It is more an argument that its not worth playing this game at all when the proposed theory is true. The reason I think its not true is personal experience and the total lack of evidence. But, if someone comes with evidence, then its a different story of course ;).
 
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those of you who have been here more then just a couple of years remember when there were no L weapons , at that time loots were better it seems and then along came the korrs 400 and people started getting eco minded ..
after that a release of all the L weapons with there SIB and people started complaining about the loots sucking ..
so what has happened here what did we as people change

we started getting eco minded and changed our own loots

perhaps the reasons the same people get the big loots are they have not changed the way they hunt over the years

are they still using the UL weapons with out the SIB ??

just food for thought

Dragger
 
I dont have anything to say :dunno:
 
Have a look with which weapon Parker made his Proteron ATH.
From what i understand he only tagged with another weapon.

Cheers
Siam
 
1) skill would be totally useless.
2) dmg/pec would be totally useless.
3) markup on (L) guns would not be worth it.

And nobody could prove it beyond doubt, thus it wouldn't matter.

So basically, the whole game would be ruined and the economy gone. Nobody is going to spend (much) money on gear or skills when it would not matter anyway.

There is an complex mix of reason why people spend money on something. Rationality not always being exactly the most important one. :)

There also might be good reasons for MA to not implement things "reasonable".

Infact, if things would work like pure figures and stats (weapon eco ect.) suggest (and i think they did, until few years ago) the gap between return rates of certain groups of people would be so big it would hurt the economy way more.
 
And nobody could prove it beyond doubt, thus it wouldn't matter.



There is an complex mix of reason why people spend money on something. Rationality not always being exactly the most important one. :)

There also might be good reasons for MA to not implement things "reasonable".

Infact, if things would work like pure figures and stats (weapon eco ect.) suggest (and i think they did, until few years ago) the gap between return rates of certain groups of people would be so big it would hurt the economy way more.

If it works as proposed by some people it is not so hard to prove. Maybe not beyond doubt but you can come with very convincing evidence relatively easy.

I am not sure how you come to the conclusion there is such a big gap.
 
I think some weapons might be better on some mobs then others. Even the name and descriptions of some weapons suggest that.

for example ARR = Anti Robot Rifle if i remember correctly. Suggesting that this weapontype is specifically designed to do robots with.

Never had the opportunity or willingness to fully test that though.
To get a more full picture the test should be expanded to doing similar runs on other mobs/bots.

Just an idea.

Cheers
Siam
 
1) skill would be totally useless.
2) dmg/pec would be totally useless.
3) markup on (L) guns would not be worth it.

So basically, the whole game would be ruined and the economy gone. Nobody is going to spend (much) money on gear or skills when it would not matter anyway.

I beg to differ.

For 1), MA never promised, infact directly denied that skills give better tt return. Skills are meant to give certain opportunities, not to guarantee anything, that's all. Same way as geology through higher finder would allow acces to better ores, in same way handgun through higher dmg/sec would allow higher markup from bigger mobs. Besides, skills are manipulated by MA as they please, there is no surefire way in this game. 2 years from now on could be as different as 2006 was to 2004. What would have meant at first looted imk2 to pretend it shouldn't be used because of too low skills, given that prolly highest rifle skill ingame was maybe 2k at that moment?

2)dmg/pec is a notion invented by players. MindArk never ever guaranteed that dmg/pec would do anything. Sure, you're controlling your expenses in a certain direction, but that's all to it.

3) well, if the loot has not enough markup, markup on L weps is useless. And generally, for a, say, scipulor hunter to profit, HL8 must be sold at an uneco markup for buyer.

Or how do you imagine one player looses peds with UL nonsib wep? Somebody at MA stays with a hammer in hand and says "ah sorry you're under 2,9dmg/pec, bang?"

Or there's some sort of mystic coding line which says "you missed skillbased, thou has lost, nub"?

What's so rational in your perspective? "I see it this way, it must be this way"? Lol?

There is no possible proof for this. What can I say, my 7-8k turnover with karma unamped last year on drones 01 ~lvl41 matters? I tried all kind of weapons, some of them I used extensively and will always do if I'll ever afford to buy them again and the only thing which attracted my attention was a slight difference in quality of loot. Nor up or down, just different. But that's all.

Yes, EP 40 at lvl 10 might be bad. Prolly is a threshold somewhere. But eco-strictness is wrong imo, fortunately each is free to do as he/she pleases.
 
I beg to differ.

For 1), MA never promised, infact directly denied that skills give better tt return. Skills are meant to give certain opportunities, not to guarantee anything, that's all. Same way as geology through higher finder would allow acces to better ores, in same way handgun through higher dmg/sec would allow higher markup from bigger mobs. Besides, skills are manipulated by MA as they please, there is no surefire way in this game. 2 years from now on could be as different as 2006 was to 2004. What would have meant at first looted imk2 to pretend it shouldn't be used because of too low skills, given that prolly highest rifle skill ingame was maybe 2k at that moment?

2)dmg/pec is a notion invented by players. MindArk never ever guaranteed that dmg/pec would do anything. Sure, you're controlling your expenses in a certain direction, but that's all to it.

3) well, if the loot has not enough markup, markup on L weps is useless. And generally, for a, say, scipulor hunter to profit, HL8 must be sold at an uneco markup for buyer.

Or how do you imagine one player looses peds with UL nonsib wep? Somebody at MA stays with a hammer in hand and says "ah sorry you're under 2,9dmg/pec, bang?"

Or there's some sort of mystic coding line which says "you missed skillbased, thou has lost, nub"?

What's so rational in your perspective? "I see it this way, it must be this way"? Lol?

I have no idea what your point is. Are you saying that if skill doesn't matter that would be no problem or change anything? And are you saying that if dmg/pec doesn't matter that would have no effect on the economy?

If so, I beg to differ ;).
 
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