PCF Rules Discussion Thread

[Minken]

Something you guys need to remember:

These aren't brand new rules. these are the exact same rules you lived with for years at EF. If you failed to read the rules back at the old site, that's your fault, not ours.

In fact, some of the rules have been relaxed here, so all this BS about "clamping down on free speech" is just arguing for arguments sake.

Look at the underlined words. Exact... but relaxed. How is that even possible?

Don't bother answering this mods, I'm just teasing with you. I'd probably go back in bed and ZZZzzzzzzzzzz.

Keep up the good work,
Minken

 

[Kemp]

...Excessive complaining and/or whining disrupt the Mission of PlanetCalypsoForum...

What's the mission of PlanetCalypsoForum.com? Is it to be a happythepappy Planet Calypso is GREAT, FPC is super!, MA is GOD promoting place? Or is it to be a discussion forum on which all forum members can speak their thoughts and opinions, even if those thoughts and opinions can damage MA/FPCs image?

Forum rule:
2.11 - Entropia Universe Terms of Use/EULA Violation

Combined with

Entropia Universe ToU point 8

Also makes me worry about my freedom of speech here.


It would be very nice Hanne, if you could answer with a simple yes or no to the question that I am asking in this post:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-to-say-this&p=2566614&viewfull=1#post2566614


Yes or no?


This post/question is not to whine, but I am really curious whether I can keep my critical tone in my posts.

 

[AJack10600]

The only rule I have a problem with is the leaving threads... I don't see what's bad about them to say good bye... it's natural. All games have atrition... and if PFC has too much of it, well then it's a good indicator of maybe changing something ?

Most rules are ok and the moderating on EF has been very good lately. All the mods have learned from passed mistakes. We should also appreciate good work done here.

 

[Centech]

Centech,
No, this is the thread where you can criticize or question.

Woo-hoo! Go Hanne!

 

[Stave]

...Excessive complaining and/or whining disrupt the Mission of PlanetCalypsoForum...
.

It is possible to state your oppinions in a constructive manner without it turning into excessive or classing as whining you know...

 

[Hanne|SDS]

Simple answer Kemp, as much as I dislike being a ... "windshield"? Yes.

 

[Kemp]

Simple answer Kemp, as much as I dislike being a ... "windshield"? Yes.

At least you don't deny it though question it .
Thanks Hanne.

 

[Xzion]

Simple answer Kemp, as much as I dislike being a ... "windshield"? Yes.

You can be my windshield! I have heard it is a position that needs to be filled ._.
Someone to protect my beliefs and statues while I'm not upholding it myself, and when i get into hot discussions back me up and take away all the fires from me!

 

[The White Dot]

Given the recent number of locked and deleted threads over personal dispute... is it really fair to say any dispute is lacks personal issue? We are all motivated to reply and place opinion based on personal perception and experience.

Here is a link to a thread over maybe some alternatives I am seeking to traditional lock and deletes.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?198207-Pandora-s-Box-A-Grounds-for-Dispute

I have seen it be effective in other forums before, I hope this is helpful.

Dot

 

[Latinangel1000]

I just have a simple question:

Is any action that we take in this forum going to be scrutanize by the powers that be and be reflected to our avatars on the game?

If so, can you say big brother, boys and girls?

(ok maybe 2 questions, but still a valid point)

 

[ranpha]

I was thinking of the subject and since pcf is now owned by FPC the Eurpoian law applies.

article 10 of the EHCR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

Article 10 - expression
Main article: Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights

Article 10 provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society". This right includes the freedom to hold opinions, and to receive and impart information and ideas.

* Lingens v Austria (1986) 8 EHRR 407
* The Observer and The Guardian v United Kingdom (1991) 14 EHRR 153, the "Spycatcher" case.
* Bowman v United Kingdom (1998) 26 EHRR 1
* Communist Party v Turkey (1998) 26 EHRR 1211
* Appleby v United Kingdom (2003) 37 EHRR 38

so as this applies to this forum now. they moderation of a post on a personal dispute (on a lvl where they just discuss and dont swear, discriminate) is a limitations of a human right.

I know both moderators are Americans but similair law applies there.

also now that this forum is owned by a swedish company and official now they reviewing of the old ef rules should be done by a legal department. The rules then should be presented as a ToU.

Be mindfull that FPC can be sued if it breaks human rights

also deleting of post is not done anymore and sense of censorship. Moving threads to a junk catorgy or closing threads is a better way then deleting post or editting it by a mod

 

[Hanne|SDS]

Latinangel, Only in extreme cases, with the emphasis on extreme.

ranpha, There's a rather large difference between a country's government working against your freedom of speech to a internet forum denying you to publish personal disagreements in said forum.

This forum is not created for the purpose of being a platform for personal disagreement. If you have an issue with someone then you are free to communicate with the individuals involved in PM, but there's no need for it in the public viewable areas.

 

[The White Dot]

Latinangel, Only in extreme cases, with the emphasis on extreme.

ranpha, There's a rather large difference between a country's government working against your freedom of speech to a internet forum denying you to publish personal disagreements in said forum.

This forum is not created for the purpose of being a platform for personal disagreement. If you have an issue with someone then you are free to communicate with the individuals involved in PM, but there's no need for it in the public viewable areas.

I think one of the reasons we wish for public dispute is that everything is said out in the open, rather than behind closed doors. It is a dirty messy way to resolve issues, and usually is not so great for either party, on the other hand when you deal with a "real cash economy" when some one is doing something wrong, and I mean harmful, or perceived as harmful often people want others to "Know" about it.

I can respect PCF's and former EF's desire that this not be a public slaughter grounds for disagreement, yet I think one of the very reasons for public dispute is for people to clear names, or a drive to protect the community.

I am not saying it is the best resolution to the issue, and I think I am starting to get side tracked a bit with my post.


When it all comes down to it, where there is a platform there will be dispute/disagreement, and it will almost always be personal. It is unavoidable, and since it all ready occurs what can we do other than lock, delete, and ban?

 

[ranpha]

I think one of the reasons we wish for public dispute is that everything is said out in the open, rather than behind closed doors. It is a dirty messy way to resolve issues, and usually is not so great for either party, on the other hand when you deal with a "real cash economy" when some one is doing something wrong, and I mean harmful, or perceived as harmful often people want others to "Know" about it.

I can respect PCF's and former EF's desire that this not be a public slaughter grounds for disagreement, yet I think one of the very reasons for public dispute is for people to clear names, or a drive to protect the community.

I am not saying it is the best resolution to the issue, and I think I am starting to get side tracked a bit with my post.


When it all comes down to it, where there is a platform there will be dispute/disagreement, and it will almost always be personal. It is unavoidable, and since it all ready occurs what can we do other than lock, delete, and ban?

I agree with white. You can not stop person discussion to each other. Ppl will always disagee with certain points of view just like we do now. I just saying it is free to do so and a mod shouldnt just go edit stuff. Can it warn the ppl to take it to pm yes it can. Can it move the thread to a darkside of the forum yes ofc.

we are discussion things now.If I speak my mnd of a certain argument I should be free to do so.

 

[Hanne|SDS]

You're fine to disagree with each other on a forum, in a valid discussion about a valid topic. It is when you drag your personal disagreements into discussion that we have a problem. It isn't clearing anyone's names, it makes everyone involved look bad no matter what side you are on. Remember that other members of this forum are here to actually discuss the topics at hand, and taking threads off-topic with flamewars are basically a respectless act to the rest of the community.

I ask you to kindly respect our rules. This is not a place to air dirty laundry.
If you want to take it up in public you are going to have to find another forum or way to do this, I'm not going to stop you on that. The interested parties can part-take there.
PCF is not going to be the platform for personal disagreements, and this rule is not going to change.

 

[Stave]

so, at what point does a "personal dispute" become a public dispute and a public concern?


Surely public disputes are allowed on the forums as they effect everyone right?

 

[Latinangel1000]

This is not a place to air dirty laundry.
If you want to take it up in public you are going to have to find another forum or way to do this, I'm not going to stop you on that. The interested parties can part-take there.
PCF is not going to be the platform for personal disagreements, and this rule is not going to change.

But...But.. this is the best part of this forum, like a never ending soap opera, say aint so!!!

ps: since you work for MA, i thought i should clarify i m joking

 

[Konve]

2.11 - Entropia Universe Terms of Use/EULA Violation
Any thread, post, signature or publicly viewable content that clearly violates the Entropia Universe Terms of Use or End User License Agreement (EULA) WILL BE DELETED, and may result in a temporary or permanent ban from the forum, and if severe enough it may have impact on your ingame account. This rule includes such things as the sale of avatars, the sale of PED or items for cash, attempts to circumvent the official deposit/withdrawal channels, attempts to exploit a weakness in the client software and/or Entropia Universe servers, or defamation of Planet Partners, Mindark, its representatives and/or Entropia Universe.

Do I understand this right then, that the EULA has of late been updated to actually expressively forbid these actions? Some source, please, if you may.

2.12 - Illegal Content
Any discussion of, or links to web sites promoting software piracy, warez, illegal downloads, cracks, cd keys, illegal file-sharing, pornography, illegal drugs, or any other illegal or similar content WILL BE DELETED without notice. Such discussions and links are totally inappropriate on PlanetCalypsoForum (and often illegal in the US, Europe and most other countries).

Shouldn't this read "...illegal file-sharing, illegal pornography, illegal drugs..." - or are you saying all pornography is illegal?

3.12 - Quotes
Quoting very large posts in their entirety is NOT permitted. Please limit quotes of other posts to those portions that are directly relevant to your reply or response. Doing so makes replies easy to follow for fellow members, and helps reduce unnecessary scrolling when reading a thread.

I'm sorry, but this is the stupidest rule I have ever seen. You should rather update your software wit hthe ability to minimize quotes.

"Rule xyz:
You are not allowed to write long posts. It creates too much scrolling." I mean come on. Rather make a rule forbidding people to create quote-wars threads where they make quotes in quotes just for the heck of it.

...so all this BS about "clamping down on free speech" is just arguing for arguments sake.

Well, I would argue that a rule about long posts is all about making rules for the sake of making rules.

The Forum Staff shall be the sole and final arbitrators of what does or does not violate these rules and/or PlanetCalypsoForum community standards.
The decisions of the Forum Staff are final.

These forum rules are supplemental to the PlanetCalypsoForum.com Terms of Service Agreement. In any case of conflict or contradiction, the Terms of Service Agreement supersedes these forum rules.

A final note needs to be added here;

"The Terms of Service Agreement is supplemented by Swedish law. In any conflicting situation, the law always supersedes the Terms of Service Agreement."

In my humble opinion.

 

[Parlog]

You're fine to disagree with each other on a forum, in a valid discussion about a valid topic. It is when you drag your personal disagreements into discussion that we have a problem. It isn't clearing anyone's names, it makes everyone involved look bad no matter what side you are on. Remember that other members of this forum are here to actually discuss the topics at hand, and taking threads off-topic with flamewars are basically a respectless act to the rest of the community.

I ask you to kindly respect our rules. This is not a place to air dirty laundry.
If you want to take it up in public you are going to have to find another forum or way to do this, I'm not going to stop you on that. The interested parties can part-take there.
PCF is not going to be the platform for personal disagreements, and this rule is not going to change.

Community = Humanz = dirty laundry
and we all know it is true, to say the least, i feel forbidden and maybe i am the easiest of them all about it. MA has to respect us as we are, FPC has to respect us too. We are no children, we are investors, gamers, rockers, inventors and think-tanks! We brake on through to the other side with you and you got to respect it. You should or i will raise a fuckin labor union! Continuation of payments in case of ill workers. This is what people think out there but dont write here. You want EU to be real life? This is real life and for me its just a game you know... i got nothing to lose. Welcome to my dirty laundry

Ups sorry now i am clean again, but i bet you know how it feels Hanne, you are OUR (<--extensive shouting) community manager, not theirs, because we are the community. Speak with them for us. And play this like you used to, to get the player experience. Maybe i am just deep in the midlevel gap and this is a rant, rant number 4 on 2.2k posts. Who knows? i dont care...

 

[aridash]

so as this applies to this forum now. they moderation of a post on a personal dispute (on a lvl where they just discuss and dont swear, discriminate) is a limitations of a human right.
...
Be mindfull that FPC can be sued if it breaks human rights

also deleting of post is not done anymore and sense of censorship. Moving threads to a junk catorgy or closing threads is a better way then deleting post or editting it by a mod

why is it that people raising issues around rights such as free speech or freedom of expression on forums dont understand the concepts properly? look at the wiki quote and what do you see? every one of the examples is against the state. rights and freedoms are between you and the state, not you and every single medium in the land. if you send a letter to a newspaper, they are not obliged to print it. likewise, if a forum doesnt want you to talk about an issue, thats their choice. you can talk about it elsewhere as permitted by your freedoms of speech/expression. the state censors, individual organisations edit.

 

[jjmatrix]

It took me a while to decide whether to post or not; I have my doubts I can get anything out of it... but I'll try.

What bothers me the most are not the rules, it's not the arrogance that pushes human beings to be "blind" and rude given even a tiny little bit of power, and it's not the fact that a GAME's related forum is more uptight than (almost) everything I saw in my 40 years life... which is absolutely ridiculous.
It's the fact that even now, admins and mods, are hiding behind a finger; we are not allowed to make threads about leaving the game because :

Regarding 3.8 This is a rule that's been in place since the beginning of EF, long before FPC (or MA at the time) got involved; and although people might not remember it now it was because of how the old Entropia Pioneers forum got swamped with heat-of-the-moment I QUIT threads and then a week or month later it'd be "I'm back!", rinse and repeat. The idea behind the rule is that the close friends you do make via the game, you contact via private communications, and there's no need for a thread to announce you are leaving....

This made laugh... until I realized that: a-yeah, some people are that shallow, and b-you really think everyone is stupid.

Why not come out and say it: we don't want people to post that they're leaving because it reflects bad on the game, hence our income will be affected. I'd have no problem with that; I do have a problem with assuming everyone is a retard.

Something you guys need to remember:

These aren't brand new rules. these are the exact same rules you lived with for years at EF. If you failed to read the rules back at the old site, that's your fault, not ours.

In fact, some of the rules have been relaxed here, so all this BS about "clamping down on free speech" is just arguing for arguments sake.

I'm not even sure how to address this; you're telling me WHAT and HOW to speak. You're telling me that if I don't like it, I can shove it and... good riddance. As you made it plenty clear in the past, this is your birth-given right and you don't care what others think.
How exactly would you call it?

I'm not even going to go to the INTERDICTION of not being able to criticize a Moderator.

 

[JohnCapital]

3.12 - Quotes

I'm sorry, but this is the stupidest rule I have ever seen. You should rather update your software wit hthe ability to minimize quotes.

This rule is meant for the people who quote really long posts, only so they can say "I agree". Some folks click the "quote" button when they just needed to hit the "reply" button.

It simply gives us mods validation to remove the unneeded quote and leave the "I agree".

I'm not even sure how to address this; you're telling me WHAT and HOW to speak. You're telling me that if I don't like it, I can shove it and... good riddance. As you made it plenty clear in the past, this is your birth-given right and you don't care what others think.
How exactly would you call it?

I believe you completely misunderstood me, mate.

The very 1st day this forum opened up, folks already made posts about there being a bunch of new rules and censorship. I was simply taking the opportunity in this thread to dispute those claims.

I have no intention of telling anyone what or how to speak, and you should know that by now. Although I do have the obligation of making sure certain rules (which basically boil down to "please be civil and don't be a dick") are followed.

 

[Nobleone]

Ahhhh the rules...

 

[Konve]

This rule is meant for the people who quote really long posts, only so they can say "I agree". Some folks click the "quote" button when they just needed to hit the "reply" button.

It simply gives us mods validation to remove the unneeded quote and leave the "I agree".

Fair enough. But I still have a problem taking that rule seriously.

Regarding 3.8 This is a rule that's been in place since the beginning of EF, long before FPC (or MA at the time) got involved; and although people might not remember it now it was because of how the old Entropia Pioneers forum got swamped with heat-of-the-moment I QUIT threads and then a week or month later it'd be "I'm back!", rinse and repeat. The idea behind the rule is that the close friends you do make via the game, you contact via private communications, and there's no need for a thread to announce you are leaving.

Whenever I see a comparison of EF and EP (forum) I smile at the irony of strict moderation.

And, as I think someone already said; please, we all know the rule is enforced to not show Entropia in a bad light. It's nothing about "spamming" the forum with quitting threads, even if it's a "positive" side effect.

And for the record, EF was the official forum for years. Before that it was the EP forum. Before that it was the official-official forum. It's a simple fact that if MA staff makes 99 posts on forum A and 1 post on forum B, then forum A is the official one, sure they could stop posting, but they didn't.

 

[Stave]

ok...


a number of deleted posts here i dont get


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?199076-TAXI%28Sleipnir_Mk1%28L%29VTOL%29-SERVICE-TP-RUN&p=2579814#post2579814


So its against the rules to give new players all of the facts?

telling players that are already poor that they dont have to waste peds on tours?




So its only allowed to post in service threads if your going to lick thier ass and tell them how wonderfull they are?

No constructive criticism and fact giving allowed?


Whats going on here?


IMO charging for tours is a type of scam, the fuel cost is barely noticable.

So is that what PCF is doing, supporting a scam? allowing players sting new players unnecessary?

 

[xillonz]

ok...


a number of deleted posts here i dont get


https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?199076-TAXI%28Sleipnir_Mk1%28L%29VTOL%29-SERVICE-TP-RUN&p=2579814#post2579814


So its against the rules to give new players all of the facts?

telling players that are already poor that they dont have to waste peds on tours?




So its only allowed to post in service threads if your going to lick thier ass and tell them how wonderfull they are?

No constructive criticism and fact giving allowed?


Whats going on here?


IMO charging for tours is a type of scam, the fuel cost is barely noticable.

So is that what PCF is doing, supporting a scam? allowing players sting new players unnecessary?

When I saw your post, I was very close to neg repping you.

Clearly it is a strawman to suggest the reason your posts were deleted was because "it's againt the rules to give noobs all the facts".

Noobs are already quite aware that they don't have to waste peds on tours, they are quite capable of running the tps like they did in the ole' days. They can supplement their gameplay by using services if they wish. These services may cost or they may be free. ETA is not short on advertising, your services aren't identical and even if they were, hijacking a service thread to advertise your own is not the suitable way of getting your name out there. Indeed, there are plenty of other transport services out there, none of which you referred to in your post, so I don't think your primary concern here is to give the noobs all the facts.

Furthermore you didn't post once, but twice, and HIJACKING the post in the method you chose was blatantly inappropriate and a very unsportsman like way of treating your competitors.

By all means, it would be nice for noobs to be aware of the variety of services available, but you went really the wrong way of going about it.

The prices in the post are very clear, fairly cheap and not deceptive. I can't see how this could be construed to be a scam unless the service provider targeted very new newbs specifically because they aren't aware of the various game mechanics, which we have no evidence for.

To then come to this thread, and post such a strawman, is more than worthy of a neg rep.

 

[Stave]

The post didnt need to be deleted, the mod could have quite easily have removed mention of eta and left the point i was putting across intact.

And the second one was a identical reply to the one the person sent above trying to sugguest we only did tp runs.


All ETA is is a large group of many many planyers who scare the same goal, to help new players.

 

[MindStar9]

People help new players in their own creative ways, and whether it comes with a fee or not is a choice the service designer makes. Just because one service charges a fee and not another, it doesn't make it a scam. The individual (and thread) you speak of was very above board, and with reasonable rates for a service charging fees.

The fact that ETA doesn't charge a fee is your choice Stave, and a generous one at that, but it doesn't mean that you invade someone else's service thread to advertise it, which is what it actually came across as, rather than some warning to the newbie community for a service that truly isn't a scam whatsoever. IMO, the posts that were deleted in the thread you highlighted deserved to be deleted and the service thread to continue as is ... no warning was necessary.

That's the beauty of our universe ... we have the freedom to be creative, and I think for the most part, our community members do a decent job of being wary of those who attempt to take advantage. I agree that warnings should be given about certain things, but this wasn't one of them.

I wish you continued success with your service, which has been a long-standing, beneficial service to the community. Let competition be what it is, and share your generosity in the way you know best.

 

[mastermesh]

IMO charging for tours is a type of scam, the fuel cost is barely noticable.

So is that what PCF is doing, supporting a scam? allowing players sting new players unnecessary?

That's the beauty of our universe ... we have the freedom to be creative, and I think for the most part, our community members do a decent job of being wary of those who attempt to take advantage. I agree that warnings should be given about certain things, but this wasn't one of them.

I agree with both of your points of view. Therein lies the crux of many issues and problems as well. The forums can and always will be slightly biased towards one party or the other. The definition of what a scam is is different from all points of view. Some might call anyone selling anything for more then TT value a scam. Some might consider sweating a scam since the sweaters are not depositing... the list can go on and on. The main issue, I think is that there is and has to be some level of moderation here. However, what you can do, if you choose to do so, is start your own blog/website, etc. and link to it from here... then you have a little more say in what is said and what will be deleted. Whether someone chooses to follow your link from here though - that's their choice. I've started doing a bit of that sort of stuff in some of the stuff I post in these forums after noticing some with different opinions from mine were doing similar. Everyone has the right to do that since the internet truely has free speech... you just can't always put that speech here in the forums on all levels, which is both a fortunate and unfortunate thing.

 

[Stave]

Have to say I am shocked of the number of people that tolerate people charging for something many many people offer for free. Inside and outside of eta.


Watch this space....